As an Ad Nauseam player, I’m thrilled by this card. I run lotus bloom, so I’m already fine waiting until turn 4 for my extra mana. But I rely on getting as much mana by turn 4 as possible on as few land drops as possible. This just helps with that. It’s not quite as good as amber or opal, but it’s definitely not bad. It just has a specific place to shine.
I very much felt like Lotus Bloom was never going to see play but it is a linchpin of Ad Nauseum. Now, I don't feel this is on par for thrm as that is a 1 turn win deck but someone will find a place for it somewhere.
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
This is strictly worse than all the other moxen, and any other artifact ramp worth playing for that matter. If I have to wait 3 turns for a card to be playable, it had better win me the game.
I'm sure it will be a bomb in limited, but it won't see constructed play.
Lots of chaff/filler in this set so far. Hopefully we get some REAL spoilers soon.
What's the cheapest card that allows us to cheat this cost. Kari Zev's expertise costs 2. As well as electrodominance with x as 0. As foretold can get it online on turn 3 but that is basically what a normal mana rock costs.
Some people have gotten burned in the past when they wrote off 'bad' cards as too niche that eventually saw play and turned out good.
This isn't one of them.
This is bad. How bad? Maybe its better than chimney imp.
In a format with simian spirit guide and lotus bloom and mox amber, it will see zero play. Its not good.
If you play it fairly, its incredibly slow for its payoff, a bad topdeck, and normally going to be worse than just having another land in hand. If you had this in your starting hand, you'd need to make a land drop your first 4 turns in a row while missing a card, just for this to come down as a single mana ramp. If you missed any land drops, you'd have been better off just having a land in its place- you aren't ramping yourself and its locked out until later and a dead topdeck
If you're trying to play it unfairly like with as foretold, then its a terrible payoff. Its just a mana rock. The decks that could cheat it in with cascade or foretold or electrodominance or so on- have access to far, far better payoffs. And they tend to play better with cards like lotus bloom. And its not like being a permanent mana source makes mox better than a black lotus when they're both gated behind the same suspend drawback. Want to tutor a 0 cmc artifact out? Just play some copies of darksteel citadel.
This is really, really bad.
/e someone in another thread was speculating about what it would take to actually make this card playable, and came up with the idea: a 1 CMC cascade spell. Then yeah, maybe it would have a purpose ~
Sorry, was typing on my phone so a little awkward. I get that it's a T4 deck, but on T4 it goes from 0 to winning all in one turn. So the lotus bloom not being available on the following turn is NBD, getting 3 mana out of it is huge. My concern with the new mox is that it only surpasses Bloom the 4 time you tap it. So, a tiny win for Ad Nauseum, but maybe being able to use it on 2 turns is good for someone else... Like (?) Turns might find some value in it.
This is strictly worse than all the other moxen, and any other artifact ramp worth playing for that matter. If I have to wait 3 turns for a card to be playable, it had better win me the game.
I'm sure it will be a bomb in limited, but it won't see constructed play.
Lots of chaff/filler in this set so far. Hopefully we get some REAL spoilers soon.
I agree with you on most of these points, but I feel like you need to rethink your definition of a Limited bomb.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Well if you've played with Search for Tomorrow, then you'll actually find that a suspend for one more, but not needing to commit mana, isn't actually the worst.
I wouldn't just straight up compare it to the other stipulation moxen, but rather think about it in terms of what does can this do long term for a particular deck?
I believe it comes into play Turn 4 off a Turn 1 suspend. So maybe a deck that is really pushing for 5 mana to combo? It does better in extra turns decks.
I always find that people try to compare too often, rather than think about where it's actual place is in the meta game. In a set of knock-off poor mans cousin cards, there are some duds for sure. But I feel like based on the comments so far, that people are not thinking long term here. I guarantee you it'll be a core element of some deck in the future.
This is strictly worse than all the other moxen, and any other artifact ramp worth playing for that matter. If I have to wait 3 turns for a card to be playable, it had better win me the game.
I'm sure it will be a bomb in limited, but it won't see constructed play.
Lots of chaff/filler in this set so far. Hopefully we get some REAL spoilers soon.
Which...assumes that it's possible for one card to win you the game outright, regardless of how much power it has.
I will confess that it's been a long time since I played (and only at FNMs, at that), but I'm not seeing how that can happen. (Yes, that's an invitation to offer counter-examples.)
Not to mention, there's a thorn that's been bugging me for a long time. Namely, how are four-turn games enjoyable? A turn takes, what, 90 seconds at most? I'd expect any game worth the name to take at least fifteen minutes, if not twenty! How can such a brief game be savored, or at least enjoyed by the loser? I honestly don't see how excitement is enough, and I'm just guessing that excitement is involved. (I'm not sure I'm capable of excitement myself...)
If you think cards should only exist in one of these formats, and ignore all the others, sell your decks and switch to Hearthstone. I love this card.
Modern Set. That's what we have been told this is.
Why would I sell what I have left, to play a game even worse than Standard/Arena?
This set is so far, not what most Modern players I know, wanted.
Thanks for a neutered FoW though, I need more sideboard worthy Counters, like every other one, besides Cryptic Command.
No, we were told from the start that it would contain cards for (almost) all constructed formats besides standard, with the bonus that the cards will be legal in modern while bypassing standard. So far it has contained cards for Modern, Commander, Vintage/Legacy, and Pauper. The four large constructed formats outside of Standard.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Well, if you were already trying to make Bolas' Citadel work in modern, this probably can't hurt. I'm sure there's some at least moderately busted use for this card that will turn up at some point.
This is strictly worse than all the other moxen, and any other artifact ramp worth playing for that matter. If I have to wait 3 turns for a card to be playable, it had better win me the game.
I'm sure it will be a bomb in limited, but it won't see constructed play.
Lots of chaff/filler in this set so far. Hopefully we get some REAL spoilers soon.
Which...assumes that it's possible for one card to win you the game outright, regardless of how much power it has.
I will confess that it's been a long time since I played (and only at FNMs, at that), but I'm not seeing how that can happen. (Yes, that's an invitation to offer counter-examples.)
Not to mention, there's a thorn that's been bugging me for a long time. Namely, how are four-turn games enjoyable? A turn takes, what, 90 seconds at most? I'd expect any game worth the name to take at least fifteen minutes, if not twenty! How can such a brief game be savored, or at least enjoyed by the loser? I honestly don't see how excitement is enough, and I'm just guessing that excitement is involved. (I'm not sure I'm capable of excitement myself...)
There are decks in Modern that win on T2 some small percent of the time.
This is strictly worse than all the other moxen, and any other artifact ramp worth playing for that matter. If I have to wait 3 turns for a card to be playable, it had better win me the game.
I'm sure it will be a bomb in limited, but it won't see constructed play.
Lots of chaff/filler in this set so far. Hopefully we get some REAL spoilers soon.
Which...assumes that it's possible for one card to win you the game outright, regardless of how much power it has.
I will confess that it's been a long time since I played (and only at FNMs, at that), but I'm not seeing how that can happen. (Yes, that's an invitation to offer counter-examples.)
Not to mention, there's a thorn that's been bugging me for a long time. Namely, how are four-turn games enjoyable? A turn takes, what, 90 seconds at most? I'd expect any game worth the name to take at least fifteen minutes, if not twenty! How can such a brief game be savored, or at least enjoyed by the loser? I honestly don't see how excitement is enough, and I'm just guessing that excitement is involved. (I'm not sure I'm capable of excitement myself...)
There are decks in Modern that win on T2 some small percent of the time.
Neoform wins on T1 some significant percent of the time
If you think cards should only exist in one of these formats, and ignore all the others, sell your decks and switch to Hearthstone. I love this card.
Modern Set. That's what we have been told this is.
Why would I sell what I have left, to play a game even worse than Standard/Arena?
This set is so far, not what most Modern players I know, wanted.
Thanks for a neutered FoW though, I need more sideboard worthy Counters, like every other one, besides Cryptic Command.
No, we were told from the start that it would contain cards for (almost) all constructed formats besides standard, with the bonus that the cards will be legal in modern while bypassing standard. So far it has contained cards for Modern, Commander, Vintage/Legacy, and Pauper. The four large constructed formats outside of Standard.
thing is, what you are claiming is a 'bonus' of bypassing standard into modern is what was pitched as the selling point of the set. its even in the product name, which isnt 'competitive-constructed-with-edh-toys horizons'. therefore there is a quite reasonable expectation that it would deliver on that front before and above others; which isnt to say anything unrelated to modern should have been excluded. maybe some people feel like that expectation has been fulfilled, but i know plenty of modern players do not.
this also comes at a time when plenty of modern players were placing (possibly unwarranted) hopes for action to be taken (banlist management) to alter the direction of the format. horizons for the most part has taken that burden upon itself in many minds, and its failure to deliver would be all the greater because of it.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
So did they just pull Iconic Masters 3.0 on us now? First Iconic, then Masters 25, and now Modern Horizons?
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
can I use the new urza to play this without suspend? It reads 5: shuffle your deck. Exile the top card, you may play it this turn without paying it's mana cost.
thanks.
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As is, the only good thing about the card is the art.
Might be near-playable with a Shardless Agent reprint.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Why'd his post count reset, though?
This isn't one of them.
This is bad. How bad? Maybe its better than chimney imp.
In a format with simian spirit guide and lotus bloom and mox amber, it will see zero play. Its not good.
If you play it fairly, its incredibly slow for its payoff, a bad topdeck, and normally going to be worse than just having another land in hand. If you had this in your starting hand, you'd need to make a land drop your first 4 turns in a row while missing a card, just for this to come down as a single mana ramp. If you missed any land drops, you'd have been better off just having a land in its place- you aren't ramping yourself and its locked out until later and a dead topdeck
If you're trying to play it unfairly like with as foretold, then its a terrible payoff. Its just a mana rock. The decks that could cheat it in with cascade or foretold or electrodominance or so on- have access to far, far better payoffs. And they tend to play better with cards like lotus bloom. And its not like being a permanent mana source makes mox better than a black lotus when they're both gated behind the same suspend drawback. Want to tutor a 0 cmc artifact out? Just play some copies of darksteel citadel.
This is really, really bad.
/e someone in another thread was speculating about what it would take to actually make this card playable, and came up with the idea: a 1 CMC cascade spell. Then yeah, maybe it would have a purpose ~
I agree with you on most of these points, but I feel like you need to rethink your definition of a Limited bomb.
I wouldn't just straight up compare it to the other stipulation moxen, but rather think about it in terms of what does can this do long term for a particular deck?
I believe it comes into play Turn 4 off a Turn 1 suspend. So maybe a deck that is really pushing for 5 mana to combo? It does better in extra turns decks.
I always find that people try to compare too often, rather than think about where it's actual place is in the meta game. In a set of knock-off poor mans cousin cards, there are some duds for sure. But I feel like based on the comments so far, that people are not thinking long term here. I guarantee you it'll be a core element of some deck in the future.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Which...assumes that it's possible for one card to win you the game outright, regardless of how much power it has.
I will confess that it's been a long time since I played (and only at FNMs, at that), but I'm not seeing how that can happen. (Yes, that's an invitation to offer counter-examples.)
Not to mention, there's a thorn that's been bugging me for a long time. Namely, how are four-turn games enjoyable? A turn takes, what, 90 seconds at most? I'd expect any game worth the name to take at least fifteen minutes, if not twenty! How can such a brief game be savored, or at least enjoyed by the loser? I honestly don't see how excitement is enough, and I'm just guessing that excitement is involved. (I'm not sure I'm capable of excitement myself...)
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Modern Set. That's what we have been told this is.
Why would I sell what I have left, to play a game even worse than Standard/Arena?
This set is so far, not what most Modern players I know, wanted.
Thanks for a neutered FoW though, I need more sideboard worthy Counters, like every other one, besides Cryptic Command.
Spirits
But it’s still incredible regard
Heck chance were underrating this mox
No, we were told from the start that it would contain cards for (almost) all constructed formats besides standard, with the bonus that the cards will be legal in modern while bypassing standard. So far it has contained cards for Modern, Commander, Vintage/Legacy, and Pauper. The four large constructed formats outside of Standard.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I'm scared.
There are decks in Modern that win on T2 some small percent of the time.
Neoform wins on T1 some significant percent of the time
this also comes at a time when plenty of modern players were placing (possibly unwarranted) hopes for action to be taken (banlist management) to alter the direction of the format. horizons for the most part has taken that burden upon itself in many minds, and its failure to deliver would be all the greater because of it.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
thanks.