This is strictly worse than all the other moxen, and any other artifact ramp worth playing for that matter. If I have to wait 3 turns for a card to be playable, it had better win me the game.
I'm sure it will be a bomb in limited, but it won't see constructed play.
Lots of chaff/filler in this set so far. Hopefully we get some REAL spoilers soon.
Now this begs the question: what cards can help sneak this into play w/in the first 3 turns w/ having to suspend it?
The real question is why would you want to use cheat spells with a pseudo land as a payoff instead of casting things like Ancestral Vision and the rest of its cycle.
Chrome Mox - "You have to exile a card, and risk getting 2-for-1ed. Total jank." Mox Opal - "You have to get three whole artifacts on the battlefield. Unplayable garbage." Mox Amber - "You need to have a legendary creature or planeswalker on the battlefield. Jaaaaank." Mox Tantalite - "You have to wait three whole turns!? JAAAAAANK!"
I wonder how many players deride Lotus Bloom for the same reason.
Mox amber is jank, It sees zero serious play. Occasionally it posts results, but pros don't show up to tournaments with mox amber decks. Only a few people were down on mox opal. I pretty sure I remember people losing their minds over it being busted. And noone thought chrome mox was bad. Mox diamond was almost the same card and was generally recognized as being good.
As another user pointed out, fast mana is what is good, 3 turns for 1 mana is not above curve in modern and this isn't going to be legal in standard. Best case scenario you have multiple in your opening hand and end up with 5-6 mana on turn 4, but lotus bloom already does this as a single card. You don't need 6+ mana for multiple turns to win and if you are using this to get to anything less than 5 mana on turn 4, you are just playing a bad land.
Lotus is the only card in modern that can put you up 3 mana by turn 4 in a single card. There are dozens of cards that can put you up 1 mana by turn 4.
Needs a 1 or 2 cmc Cascade spell OR a new 1 cmc card that removes all counters from a card in exile.
I bet it won't be in this set. Maybe Modern Horizons 2???
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Chrome Mox - "You have to exile a card, and risk getting 2-for-1ed. Total jank." Mox Opal - "You have to get three whole artifacts on the battlefield. Unplayable garbage." Mox Amber - "You need to have a legendary creature or planeswalker on the battlefield. Jaaaaank." Mox Tantalite - "You have to wait three whole turns!? JAAAAAANK!"
I wonder how many players deride Lotus Bloom for the same reason.
Yeah, nah. Quote me exactly in which posts Chrome and Opal were deemed unplayable. Amber IS indeed unplayable jank, even in Standard, and this needed Suspend 1 to be even remotely playable. I wonder how it's always people who don't even play modern the ones that complain the loudest about "people complaining" and thinking card are absurdly busted because they share part of their name with another busted card while reposting meme rhetoric like this. Do you think Cabal Therapist is also good because it's a callback to Cabal Therapy?
Chrome Mox - "You have to exile a card, and risk getting 2-for-1ed. Total jank." Mox Opal - "You have to get three whole artifacts on the battlefield. Unplayable garbage." Mox Amber - "You need to have a legendary creature or planeswalker on the battlefield. Jaaaaank." Mox Tantalite - "You have to wait three whole turns!? JAAAAAANK!"
I wonder how many players deride Lotus Bloom for the same reason.
Yeah, nah. Quote me exactly in which posts Chrome and Opal were deemed unplayable. Amber IS indeed unplayable jank, even in Standard, and this needed Suspend 1 to be even remotely playable. I wonder how it's always people who don't even play modern the ones that complain the loudest about "people complaining" and thinking card are absurdly busted because they share part of their name with another busted card while reposting meme rhetoric like this. Do you think Cabal Therapist is also good because it's a callback to Cabal Therapy?
Lots of people thought Chrome Mox was bad (card disadvantage).
Lots of people though Mox Opal was bad, or at least not powerful (too slow)
Mox Amber is certainly not unplayable.
Mox Tantalite... time will show.
Lots of people thought Chrome Mox was bad (card disadvantage).
Lots of people though Mox Opal was bad, or at least not powerful (too slow)
Mox Amber is certainly not unplayable.
Mox Tantalite... time will show.
Where's the proof tho. Just saying "yeah people thought this and Mox Amber is not unplayable and Tantalite will be played in some uncertain future" when you have a post history and search tool to look through, Standard and Modern results with zero (0) Ambers aside from some random 5-0 meme deck in Standard, and Lotus Bloom in the same cardpool isn't cutting it.
Then again, these are the same people that were decrying that Champion of Rhonas was a Modern playable card because "historically cheating permanents into play has always been a powerful effect" so I don't know what I was expecting.
Lots of people thought Chrome Mox was bad (card disadvantage).
Lots of people though Mox Opal was bad, or at least not powerful (too slow)
Mox Amber is certainly not unplayable.
Mox Tantalite... time will show.
Where's the proof tho. Just saying "yeah people thought this and Mox Amber is not unplayable and Tantalite will be played in some uncertain future" when you have a post history and search tool to look through, Standard and Modern results with zero (0) Ambers aside from some random 5-0 meme deck in Standard, and Lotus Bloom in the same cardpool isn't cutting it.
Then again, these are the same people that were decrying that Champion of Rhonas was a Modern playable card because "historically cheating permanents into play has always been a powerful effect" so I don't know what I was expecting.
Sorry, I can't be bothered to look up quotes to prove my points to random strangers on the internet. Take my word for it, or not, I don't care. I know I'm right.
Oh, and a Jeskai Superfriends deck running 2 Mox Amber placed first in SCG Syracuse. I guess you'll just blow that off as well.
Sorry, I can't be bothered to look up quotes to prove my points to random strangers on the internet. Take my word for it, or not, I don't care. I know I'm right.
Oh, and a Jeskai Superfriends deck running 2 Mox Amber placed first in SCG Syracuse. I guess you'll just blow that off as well.
Lmao, you want to defend an argument but don't want to provide proofs for it other than "you know you're right" and then proceed to cite an outlier from a random-ass standard deck that didn't even run the full playset as if it's in any shape or size relevant to Modern. You sure convinced everyone with those hot opinions there.
(...) and then proceed to cite an outlier from a random-ass standard deck (...)
Yeah, safe to say at this point you're just trolling. Baiting someone with something irrelevant to the format in question (Modern, as in, you know, Modern Horizons) and acting all like "I was merely pretending to be dumb" while disregarding the rest of the argument while at the same time spamming the forum with some random emoji sure makes you right. Ignore and move on.
(...) and then proceed to cite an outlier from a random-ass standard deck (...)
Yeah, safe to say at this point you're just trolling. Baiting someone with something irrelevant to the format in question (Modern, as in, you know, Modern Horizons) and acting all like "I was merely pretending to be dumb" while disregarding the rest of the argument while at the same time spamming the forum with some random emoji sure makes you right. Ignore and move on.
Not to disagree with you but I did notice one thing over the course of this conversation, especially as you cited Champion of Thomas. There's a certain psychotype of players (Johny??) Who will do everything they can to make this Mox matter. For them, having this in the set is pure candy.
(...) and then proceed to cite an outlier from a random-ass standard deck (...)
Yeah, safe to say at this point you're just trolling. Baiting someone with something irrelevant to the format in question (Modern, as in, you know, Modern Horizons) and acting all like "I was merely pretending to be dumb" while disregarding the rest of the argument while at the same time spamming the forum with some random emoji sure makes you right. Ignore and move on.
Haha, nice try rewriting history. YOU brought up standard ("Amber IS indeed unplayable jank, even in Standard..."), I guess you want to forget that.
Anyway, back on topic: I agree with the guys saying that free mana should never be underestimated, and that it has a tendency to be broken somehow. Now, clearly in eternal formats the bar is much higher than in Standard, so yeah it may ultimately be "unplayable".
I don't know, every time a Mox got spoiled in the last few years, people were initially saying how bad it is, and it always ended up playable somewhere. Free mana for 0 always ended up good, no matter the restrictions.
Yeah, I can picture the arguments:
Chrome Mox - "You have to exile a card, and risk getting 2-for-1ed. Total jank." Mox Opal - "You have to get three whole artifacts on the battlefield. Unplayable garbage."
That's literally how those two cards were perceived when they were originally spoiled. Today, Chrome Mox is a $40 card and Mox Opal is $100 (and the Kaladesh version is $300).
I think people are seriously underrating this card, especially with the preponderance of ways to cheat things like this into play in non-rotating formats.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lapsed DCI Rules Advisor - Retired from playing but still hanging around
So one thing I've been hearing is these might see play in Bolas's Citadel decks, since they become extra land drops, essentially. Not sure how good this would be in Modern, but kinda glad it isn't in Standard if that's the case.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
I don't know, every time a Mox got spoiled in the last few years, people were initially saying how bad it is, and it always ended up playable somewhere. Free mana for 0 always ended up good, no matter the restrictions.
Yeah, I can picture the arguments:
Chrome Mox - "You have to exile a card, and risk getting 2-for-1ed. Total jank." Mox Opal - "You have to get three whole artifacts on the battlefield. Unplayable garbage."
That's literally how those two cards were perceived when they were originally spoiled. Today, Chrome Mox is a $40 card and Mox Opal is $100 (and the Kaladesh version is $300).
I think people are seriously underrating this card, especially with the preponderance of ways to cheat things like this into play in non-rotating formats.
Because those can accelerate a Chalice of the Void on 1 or similar things on turn 1. This cannot. On turn 4 (and that's assuming you play it on curve) you already have full Tron if you want to be cheating on mana.
Barring some weird janky combo, this card is absurdely bad. Why would you even consider playing this over Lotus Bloom? The latter gives you a 3-mana boost on T4, that should let you go off, and indeed Ad Nauseam decks do that, but else, we may be looking at the worst mox in history. Chrome Mox and later Mox Opal are on a different league, those give you a mana boost right on T1 or T2, not on T3, there's a huge difference there. Which decks could want this? I don't see Storm cutting a ritual for it, considering it doesn't play Lotus Bloom which would be so much better for their gameplan...
I think this card has play ability. But it is either incredibly fringe or it isn't in Modern. I stand by me previous statement, comparing this to other moxes is not a linear comparison. The difference between an extra mana on turns 1, 2, and 3, is substantial and you quickly see that diminish on turns 4, 5, and onward. If this wasn't the case, then something like Farseek and Explor would have way more playability to them.... but they don't because the time in which that mana makes the biggest difference, has come and gone. Suspend 3 is a huge drawback for this card outside of fringe scenarios. The reason it is less of a drawback on Lotus Bloom is that you net 3 mana by the end of those turns.
You want to be going bigger earlier and wider later. This Mox doesn't really achieve either of those.
But once again, I do think the card has niche playability. Historically, cards with Niche playability either become incredibly relevant in their niche or unplayable abroad.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
LEGACY|UWStonebladeCOMMANDER|UBGThe Mimeoplsm Ooze & Aghhs!MODERN|UWAzorius Control THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
Is it really satire anymore if it's true?
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Goblin Engineer
The real question is why would you want to use cheat spells with a pseudo land as a payoff instead of casting things like Ancestral Vision and the rest of its cycle.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Not true. Unknown Shores hasn't been seeing play.
Mox amber is jank, It sees zero serious play. Occasionally it posts results, but pros don't show up to tournaments with mox amber decks. Only a few people were down on mox opal. I pretty sure I remember people losing their minds over it being busted. And noone thought chrome mox was bad. Mox diamond was almost the same card and was generally recognized as being good.
As another user pointed out, fast mana is what is good, 3 turns for 1 mana is not above curve in modern and this isn't going to be legal in standard. Best case scenario you have multiple in your opening hand and end up with 5-6 mana on turn 4, but lotus bloom already does this as a single card. You don't need 6+ mana for multiple turns to win and if you are using this to get to anything less than 5 mana on turn 4, you are just playing a bad land.
Lotus is the only card in modern that can put you up 3 mana by turn 4 in a single card. There are dozens of cards that can put you up 1 mana by turn 4.
Needs a 1 or 2 cmc Cascade spell OR a new 1 cmc card that removes all counters from a card in exile.
I bet it won't be in this set. Maybe Modern Horizons 2???
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Yeah, nah. Quote me exactly in which posts Chrome and Opal were deemed unplayable. Amber IS indeed unplayable jank, even in Standard, and this needed Suspend 1 to be even remotely playable. I wonder how it's always people who don't even play modern the ones that complain the loudest about "people complaining" and thinking card are absurdly busted because they share part of their name with another busted card while reposting meme rhetoric like this. Do you think Cabal Therapist is also good because it's a callback to Cabal Therapy?
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Lots of people thought Chrome Mox was bad (card disadvantage).
Lots of people though Mox Opal was bad, or at least not powerful (too slow)
Mox Amber is certainly not unplayable.
Mox Tantalite... time will show.
Where's the proof tho. Just saying "yeah people thought this and Mox Amber is not unplayable and Tantalite will be played in some uncertain future" when you have a post history and search tool to look through, Standard and Modern results with zero (0) Ambers aside from some random 5-0 meme deck in Standard, and Lotus Bloom in the same cardpool isn't cutting it.
Then again, these are the same people that were decrying that Champion of Rhonas was a Modern playable card because "historically cheating permanents into play has always been a powerful effect" so I don't know what I was expecting.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Sorry, I can't be bothered to look up quotes to prove my points to random strangers on the internet. Take my word for it, or not, I don't care. I know I'm right.
Oh, and a Jeskai Superfriends deck running 2 Mox Amber placed first in SCG Syracuse. I guess you'll just blow that off as well.
Lmao, you want to defend an argument but don't want to provide proofs for it other than "you know you're right" and then proceed to cite an outlier from a random-ass standard deck that didn't even run the full playset as if it's in any shape or size relevant to Modern. You sure convinced everyone with those hot opinions there.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Yeah, safe to say at this point you're just trolling. Baiting someone with something irrelevant to the format in question (Modern, as in, you know, Modern Horizons) and acting all like "I was merely pretending to be dumb" while disregarding the rest of the argument while at the same time spamming the forum with some random emoji sure makes you right. Ignore and move on.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
Not to disagree with you but I did notice one thing over the course of this conversation, especially as you cited Champion of Thomas. There's a certain psychotype of players (Johny??) Who will do everything they can to make this Mox matter. For them, having this in the set is pure candy.
Haha, nice try rewriting history. YOU brought up standard ("Amber IS indeed unplayable jank, even in Standard..."), I guess you want to forget that.
Anyway, back on topic: I agree with the guys saying that free mana should never be underestimated, and that it has a tendency to be broken somehow. Now, clearly in eternal formats the bar is much higher than in Standard, so yeah it may ultimately be "unplayable".
That's literally how those two cards were perceived when they were originally spoiled. Today, Chrome Mox is a $40 card and Mox Opal is $100 (and the Kaladesh version is $300).
I think people are seriously underrating this card, especially with the preponderance of ways to cheat things like this into play in non-rotating formats.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Because those can accelerate a Chalice of the Void on 1 or similar things on turn 1. This cannot. On turn 4 (and that's assuming you play it on curve) you already have full Tron if you want to be cheating on mana.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
preorders for over 37 bucks i rather play the other mox that taps for blue then this suspended one
to compare pact is
https://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/Magic: The Gathering/Force of Negation
27.99
You want to be going bigger earlier and wider later. This Mox doesn't really achieve either of those.
But once again, I do think the card has niche playability. Historically, cards with Niche playability either become incredibly relevant in their niche or unplayable abroad.
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG