not surprising. it's not a magic card. but i think that they missed big time on banning looting. that card is horrendous. and good opp to let stoneforge out but ya... too strong apparently.
I've followed the YouTuber Magic_Aids (and others) recently so I've seen this in action a few times. I have little understanding of the Modern metagame, but when people start maindecking black leylines, you know you done goofd.
(I'll recommend him, btw, he's quite charming, although content warning, he's not always kosher in regards to his commentary. Who'd know from such a username?)
Also it's my birthday so this is a weird birthday present lol
Glad they took Bridge now the bridgeless decks can all be more fair on being mostly agro decks. I m not even sure if Altar Of Dementia(the other problem card) will be that good, i mean it still can outrun a ensnaring bridge prison deck and also can make the deck too fast and resilient but at the same time it is not the auto win that it was before this ban. Lets be fair the deck lost a bit of power but will still be a really fast and good deck.
I've followed the YouTuber Magic_Aids (and others) recently so I've seen this in action a few times. I have little understanding of the Modern metagame, but when people start maindecking black leylines, you know you done goofd.
(I'll recommend him, btw, he's quite charming, although content warning, he's not always kosher in regards to his commentary. Who'd know from such a username?)
Also it's my birthday so this is a weird birthday present lol
I mean, Aids can mean some number of Aid (Help) while Aids can be confused with AIDS (acquired immunodeficiency syndrome) or better named HIV, but lets be true alot of people write AIDS as Aids, but HIV as Hiv is less common.
not surprising. it's not a magic card. but i think that they missed big time on banning looting. that card is horrendous. and good opp to let stoneforge out but ya... too strong apparently.
Looting is not a problem. It hasn't been a problem since it was printed. Stop asking for WotC to ban enabler cards. If you want a less powerful format go back to Standard.
BFB being the only change is kind of weak. There are multiple cards that could come off the list. The most safe being SFM.
you're 100% wrong on that. also wtf? i play all formats but vintage, don't tell me what to do. looting has been a major problem in modern for a long time. it enables too many stupid broken decks. getting rid of it would slow down Modern and give new life to the meta. if you can't see that, maybe you've never actually played Modern.
not surprising. it's not a magic card. but i think that they missed big time on banning looting. that card is horrendous. and good opp to let stoneforge out but ya... too strong apparently.
Looting is not a problem. It hasn't been a problem since it was printed. Stop asking for WotC to ban enabler cards. If you want a less powerful format go back to Standard.
BFB being the only change is kind of weak. There are multiple cards that could come off the list. The most safe being SFM.
you're 100% wrong on that. also wtf? i play all formats but vintage, don't tell me what to do. looting has been a major problem in modern for a long time. it enables too many stupid broken decks. getting rid of it would slow down Modern and give new life to the meta. if you can't see that, maybe you've never actually played Modern.
No, you are wrong, and my position is backed by WotC NOT banning Looting. Sorry you have an incorrect understanding of the word "broken". Looting is not broken. Slowing down Modern is basically asking for Modern to become Standard. There are multiple decks in all 3 arches that can compete in Modern. That's format health.
oh yes, and WOTC is never wrong.........
Modern IS only 3 decks:
Tron (of the eldrazi variant)
Phoenix
Hoggaak
That's modern right now. Ya super healthy format! WOTC has been notorious in banning the wrong cards for years now. They are simply unwilling to ban the enablers. Remember Blood Braid? Ya that card was scary! While a little elf went on to wreck further havoc...
Looting is not a problem. It hasn't been a problem since it was printed. Stop asking for WotC to ban enabler cards. If you want a less powerful format go back to Standard.
BFB being the only change is kind of weak. There are multiple cards that could come off the list. The most safe being SFM.
you're 100% wrong on that. also wtf? i play all formats but vintage, don't tell me what to do. looting has been a major problem in modern for a long time. it enables too many stupid broken decks. getting rid of it would slow down Modern and give new life to the meta. if you can't see that, maybe you've never actually played Modern.
No, you are wrong, and my position is backed by WotC NOT banning Looting. Sorry you have an incorrect understanding of the word "broken". Looting is not broken. Slowing down Modern is basically asking for Modern to become Standard. There are multiple decks in all 3 arches that can compete in Modern. That's format health.
oh yes, and WOTC is never wrong.........
Modern IS only 3 decks:
Tron (of the eldrazi variant)
Phoenix
Hoggaak
That's modern right now. Ya super healthy format! WOTC has been notorious in banning the wrong cards for years now. They are simply unwilling to ban the enablers. Remember Blood Braid? Ya that card was scary! While a little elf went on to wreck further havoc...
If you honestly think Modern is just those three decks, I no longer believe you play Modern.
ah see, there's the illusion of diversity when in fact, there really isn't. all you have to do is look at all the last paper tourneys to see this. modern has never been diverse. it's always been about doing the most degenerate thing possible without giving your opp the chance too interact. that's Modern.
you're 100% wrong on that. also wtf? i play all formats but vintage, don't tell me what to do. looting has been a major problem in modern for a long time. it enables too many stupid broken decks. getting rid of it would slow down Modern and give new life to the meta. if you can't see that, maybe you've never actually played Modern.
No, you are wrong, and my position is backed by WotC NOT banning Looting. Sorry you have an incorrect understanding of the word "broken". Looting is not broken. Slowing down Modern is basically asking for Modern to become Standard. There are multiple decks in all 3 arches that can compete in Modern. That's format health.
oh yes, and WOTC is never wrong.........
Modern IS only 3 decks:
Tron (of the eldrazi variant)
Phoenix
Hoggaak
That's modern right now. Ya super healthy format! WOTC has been notorious in banning the wrong cards for years now. They are simply unwilling to ban the enablers. Remember Blood Braid? Ya that card was scary! While a little elf went on to wreck further havoc...
If you honestly think Modern is just those three decks, I no longer believe you play Modern.
ah see, there's the illusion of diversity when in fact, there really isn't. all you have to do is look at all the last paper tourneys to see this. modern has never been diverse. it's always been about doing the most degenerate thing possible without giving your opp the chance too interact. that's Modern.
I saw way too many Humans and UW Control decks in paper tournament Top 8 results this month.
You may want to check www.tcdecks.net, especially its "Metagame of Last Month" section; a clear majority of the Modern results it gets are from paper tournaments.
For the record, I only remember Eldrazi Tron spiking within the last few days in MTGO results; it wasn't so hot in the early Hogaak days, from my recollection.
No, you are wrong, and my position is backed by WotC NOT banning Looting. Sorry you have an incorrect understanding of the word "broken". Looting is not broken. Slowing down Modern is basically asking for Modern to become Standard. There are multiple decks in all 3 arches that can compete in Modern. That's format health.
oh yes, and WOTC is never wrong.........
Modern IS only 3 decks:
Tron (of the eldrazi variant)
Phoenix
Hoggaak
That's modern right now. Ya super healthy format! WOTC has been notorious in banning the wrong cards for years now. They are simply unwilling to ban the enablers. Remember Blood Braid? Ya that card was scary! While a little elf went on to wreck further havoc...
If you honestly think Modern is just those three decks, I no longer believe you play Modern.
ah see, there's the illusion of diversity when in fact, there really isn't. all you have to do is look at all the last paper tourneys to see this. modern has never been diverse. it's always been about doing the most degenerate thing possible without giving your opp the chance too interact. that's Modern.
I saw way too many Humans and UW Control decks in paper tournament Top 8 results this month.
You may want to check www.tcdecks.net, especially its "Metagame of Last Month" section; a clear majority of the Modern results it gets are from paper tournaments.
For the record, I only remember Eldrazi Tron spiking within the last few days in MTGO results; it wasn't so hot in the early Hogaak days, from my recollection.
What I'm trying to get at is to say that Modern is genuinely NOT as diverse as people want to think it is. There was an article not too long ago that discussed this very facet (cannot recall who had written it but I think it might have been Ari Lax). Cards like faithless looting are an issue because it tends to homogenize archetypes (as it's clearly one of - if not- the most powerful thing you can do in modern). A healthy and varied format would contain aggro, midrange, control decks. What we are seeing are mostly just combo decks that ignore entirely what their opponents are doing.
Ok we have UW control, Burn and Jund. Those are 3 decks representing the major archetypes. However, when you look at the decklists that are consistently winning, these are not the decks (deck types) that represent the format. What you see are decks that look at minimizing the interaction and ensuring that their opponents have virtually no windows to respond. This in turn makes the games more much like a coin toss (going first is significantly better in modern, to the point of being the difference between a win and a loss). Cards like blood moon, chalice of the void, rest in peace etc create a non-zero number of non-games. These tend to be the cards most represented.
In addition to that, pros also agree with me that looting is a card that will need to be banned (at some point in the future). It's not like i'm talking out of my ass. It's the "subtle" glue that holds so many of these linear combo decks together.
Faithless isn't the only card i'd like to see gone. But it would be a start.
That's modern right now. Ya super healthy format! WOTC has been notorious in banning the wrong cards for years now. They are simply unwilling to ban the enablers. Remember Blood Braid? Ya that card was scary! While a little elf went on to wreck further havoc...
If you honestly think Modern is just those three decks, I no longer believe you play Modern.
ah see, there's the illusion of diversity when in fact, there really isn't. all you have to do is look at all the last paper tourneys to see this. modern has never been diverse. it's always been about doing the most degenerate thing possible without giving your opp the chance too interact. that's Modern.
I saw way too many Humans and UW Control decks in paper tournament Top 8 results this month.
You may want to check www.tcdecks.net, especially its "Metagame of Last Month" section; a clear majority of the Modern results it gets are from paper tournaments.
For the record, I only remember Eldrazi Tron spiking within the last few days in MTGO results; it wasn't so hot in the early Hogaak days, from my recollection.
What I'm trying to get at is to say that Modern is genuinely NOT as diverse as people want to think it is. There was an article not too long ago that discussed this very facet (cannot recall who had written it but I think it might have been Ari Lax). Cards like faithless looting are an issue because it tends to homogenize archetypes (as it's clearly one of - if not- the most powerful thing you can do in modern). A healthy and varied format would contain aggro, midrange, control decks. What we are seeing are mostly just combo decks that ignore entirely what their opponents are doing.
Ok we have UW control, Burn and Jund. Those are 3 decks representing the major archetypes. However, when you look at the decklists that are consistently winning, these are not the decks (deck types) that represent the format. What you see are decks that look at minimizing the interaction and ensuring that their opponents have virtually no windows to respond. This in turn makes the games more much like a coin toss (going first is significantly better in modern, to the point of being the difference between a win and a loss). Cards like blood moon, chalice of the void, rest in peace etc create a non-zero number of non-games. These tend to be the cards most represented.
In addition to that, pros also agree with me that looting is a card that will need to be banned (at some point in the future). It's not like i'm talking out of my ass. It's the "subtle" glue that holds so many of these linear combo decks together.
Faithless isn't the only card i'd like to see gone. But it would be a start.
My mentions of Humans and UW Control doing well enough in this month's Hogaak meta were to counter this direct mention of yours:
I agree that the (Altar of) Hogaak (Bridgevine) deck was pushing down deck diversity, but your mention that Eldrazi Tron was one of the most prominent decks in the Hogaak meta, to the expense of others I do recall seeing in greater numbers such as Humans and UW Control, looked pretty wrong to me and led me to believe that you have a pretty skewed view of the meta. While www.tcdecks.net does not get the complete paper or MTGO metas into its database, it does get fairly close in my experience, and at least in its results collection (which is mostly of paper results), Eldrazi Tron has NOT been doing anywhere near as well in a Hogaak meta as you imply.
If you honestly think Modern is just those three decks, I no longer believe you play Modern.
ah see, there's the illusion of diversity when in fact, there really isn't. all you have to do is look at all the last paper tourneys to see this. modern has never been diverse. it's always been about doing the most degenerate thing possible without giving your opp the chance too interact. that's Modern.
I saw way too many Humans and UW Control decks in paper tournament Top 8 results this month.
You may want to check www.tcdecks.net, especially its "Metagame of Last Month" section; a clear majority of the Modern results it gets are from paper tournaments.
For the record, I only remember Eldrazi Tron spiking within the last few days in MTGO results; it wasn't so hot in the early Hogaak days, from my recollection.
What I'm trying to get at is to say that Modern is genuinely NOT as diverse as people want to think it is. There was an article not too long ago that discussed this very facet (cannot recall who had written it but I think it might have been Ari Lax). Cards like faithless looting are an issue because it tends to homogenize archetypes (as it's clearly one of - if not- the most powerful thing you can do in modern). A healthy and varied format would contain aggro, midrange, control decks. What we are seeing are mostly just combo decks that ignore entirely what their opponents are doing.
Ok we have UW control, Burn and Jund. Those are 3 decks representing the major archetypes. However, when you look at the decklists that are consistently winning, these are not the decks (deck types) that represent the format. What you see are decks that look at minimizing the interaction and ensuring that their opponents have virtually no windows to respond. This in turn makes the games more much like a coin toss (going first is significantly better in modern, to the point of being the difference between a win and a loss). Cards like blood moon, chalice of the void, rest in peace etc create a non-zero number of non-games. These tend to be the cards most represented.
In addition to that, pros also agree with me that looting is a card that will need to be banned (at some point in the future). It's not like i'm talking out of my ass. It's the "subtle" glue that holds so many of these linear combo decks together.
Faithless isn't the only card i'd like to see gone. But it would be a start.
My mentions of Humans and UW Control doing well enough in this month's Hogaak meta were to counter this direct mention of yours:
I agree that the (Altar of) Hogaak (Bridgevine) deck was pushing down deck diversity, but your mention that Eldrazi Tron was one of the most prominent decks in the Hogaak meta, to the expense of others I do recall seeing in greater numbers such as Humans and UW Control, looked pretty wrong to me and led me to believe that you have a pretty skewed view of the meta. While www.tcdecks.net does not get the complete paper or MTGO metas into its database, it does get fairly close in my experience, and at least in its results collection (which is mostly of paper results), Eldrazi Tron has NOT been doing anywhere near as well in a Hogaak meta as you imply.
part of the reason why you might not think so is due to the short amount of time the meta has existed as such. eldrazi tron would have eventually been more prominent because it's the best chalice of thees void deck. this is the card that matters most. now that hogaak has been nerfed, we will reclaim a bit of normalcy. from my observations, there are a lot of decks in modern, yes. but it's consistently the same type of deck that raises to the top.
phoenix
hogaak
devastation druid
eldrazi tron can pray on this meta because of chalice. not because it's a better deck.
what do the 3 decks have in common? they are all uninteractive decks that seek to end the game by t3. THIS is a representation of modern. this format, in my opinion, sucks. how do u fix this?
At GP Dallas, I played 15 rounds. I played against 10 different decks in those rounds. 3 Hogaak, 2 UW Control, 2 Rock, 2 Burn, 8-whack, UR Phoenix, Eldrazi Tron, Storm, Whir Prison, and Humans. I was playing an almost mono-blue tempo deck and finished in the money, 10-4-1. If you think the format isn't varied maybe that's your local metagame or online, because it is quite varied. Faithless Looting is unlikely to ever leave the format, along with Mox Opal and Ancient Stirrings, these cards make the format what it is. They enable stupid stuff yes, but they also enable a wide range of things.
I imagine Stoneforge Mystic will be unbaned at some point, but they will wait till Modern needs a shake-up. With the new mulligan and all the new toys in Modern Horizons, there's no need to add it now.
Personally I love the format right now, and Modern Horizons did exactly what I hoped, made the format even more varied. Even with Hogaak being every where at that GP, it still felt great. Hogaak will still be a viable deck without having busted turn two kills, although in three matches that never happened.
If you don't feel there's enough interaction, play some yourself.
I'm glad Modern Horizons brought some variation to the format. I still can't wrap my head around how people have fun playing busted combos/decks. But I guess it's less about fun at that point, and more about leaderboards and prizes right?
Glad they took Bridge now the bridgeless decks can all be more fair on being mostly agro decks. I m not even sure if Altar Of Dementia(the other problem card) will be that good, i mean it still can outrun a ensnaring bridge prison deck and also can make the deck too fast and resilient but at the same time it is not the auto win that it was before this ban. Lets be fair the deck lost a bit of power but will still be a really fast and good deck.
I've followed the YouTuber Magic_Aids (and others) recently so I've seen this in action a few times. I have little understanding of the Modern metagame, but when people start maindecking black leylines, you know you done goofd.
(I'll recommend him, btw, he's quite charming, although content warning, he's not always kosher in regards to his commentary. Who'd know from such a username?)
Also it's my birthday so this is a weird birthday present lol
I mean, Aids can mean some number of Aid (Help) while Aids can be confused with AIDS (acquired immunodeficiency syndrome) or better named HIV, but lets be true alot of people write AIDS as Aids, but HIV as Hiv is less common.
Off topic, but in response to this real quick. AIDS is not another name for HIV. AIDS is what you have when HIV is left untreated for years and progresses to the last stage of immunodeficiency caused by HIV. Just fyi, so you don't go around thinking HIV+ people have AIDS. That's a huge and important difference. Especially in this day where living with treated HIV allows a normal lifespan. You'd be worse off being out of shape, with diabetes or cancer, and many other degenerative diseases.
Several posts in this thread are over the line. Please cool it with the flaming and have an intelligent discussion so that I don't have to lock this thread.
This site still works, for some reason so I will provide an update.
I played Neoform once over the weekend in an event. This is how G1 went:
I turned 2 blood moon, then blew up one of his 2 lands. Next Game.
He went off on T1, but actually messed up the combo and...lost.
We played a few more times and he pulled off the combo only once on T1. My opp seemed convince that something needs to be banned from that deck as it was super consistent for him otherwise (but variance didn't work out for him in our match).
What's everyone else's experience against or win Neoform? I can't imagine it gets nerfed but i could be wrong since the London Mulligan really benefits it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Read the explanation here.
(I'll recommend him, btw, he's quite charming, although content warning, he's not always kosher in regards to his commentary. Who'd know from such a username?)
Also it's my birthday so this is a weird birthday present lol
I mean, Aids can mean some number of Aid (Help) while Aids can be confused with AIDS (acquired immunodeficiency syndrome) or better named HIV, but lets be true alot of people write AIDS as Aids, but HIV as Hiv is less common.
you're 100% wrong on that. also wtf? i play all formats but vintage, don't tell me what to do. looting has been a major problem in modern for a long time. it enables too many stupid broken decks. getting rid of it would slow down Modern and give new life to the meta. if you can't see that, maybe you've never actually played Modern.
oh yes, and WOTC is never wrong.........
Modern IS only 3 decks:
Tron (of the eldrazi variant)
Phoenix
Hoggaak
That's modern right now. Ya super healthy format! WOTC has been notorious in banning the wrong cards for years now. They are simply unwilling to ban the enablers. Remember Blood Braid? Ya that card was scary! While a little elf went on to wreck further havoc...
ah see, there's the illusion of diversity when in fact, there really isn't. all you have to do is look at all the last paper tourneys to see this. modern has never been diverse. it's always been about doing the most degenerate thing possible without giving your opp the chance too interact. that's Modern.
I saw way too many Humans and UW Control decks in paper tournament Top 8 results this month.
You may want to check www.tcdecks.net, especially its "Metagame of Last Month" section; a clear majority of the Modern results it gets are from paper tournaments.
For the record, I only remember Eldrazi Tron spiking within the last few days in MTGO results; it wasn't so hot in the early Hogaak days, from my recollection.
What I'm trying to get at is to say that Modern is genuinely NOT as diverse as people want to think it is. There was an article not too long ago that discussed this very facet (cannot recall who had written it but I think it might have been Ari Lax). Cards like faithless looting are an issue because it tends to homogenize archetypes (as it's clearly one of - if not- the most powerful thing you can do in modern). A healthy and varied format would contain aggro, midrange, control decks. What we are seeing are mostly just combo decks that ignore entirely what their opponents are doing.
Ok we have UW control, Burn and Jund. Those are 3 decks representing the major archetypes. However, when you look at the decklists that are consistently winning, these are not the decks (deck types) that represent the format. What you see are decks that look at minimizing the interaction and ensuring that their opponents have virtually no windows to respond. This in turn makes the games more much like a coin toss (going first is significantly better in modern, to the point of being the difference between a win and a loss). Cards like blood moon, chalice of the void, rest in peace etc create a non-zero number of non-games. These tend to be the cards most represented.
In addition to that, pros also agree with me that looting is a card that will need to be banned (at some point in the future). It's not like i'm talking out of my ass. It's the "subtle" glue that holds so many of these linear combo decks together.
Faithless isn't the only card i'd like to see gone. But it would be a start.
My mentions of Humans and UW Control doing well enough in this month's Hogaak meta were to counter this direct mention of yours:
I agree that the (Altar of) Hogaak (Bridgevine) deck was pushing down deck diversity, but your mention that Eldrazi Tron was one of the most prominent decks in the Hogaak meta, to the expense of others I do recall seeing in greater numbers such as Humans and UW Control, looked pretty wrong to me and led me to believe that you have a pretty skewed view of the meta. While www.tcdecks.net does not get the complete paper or MTGO metas into its database, it does get fairly close in my experience, and at least in its results collection (which is mostly of paper results), Eldrazi Tron has NOT been doing anywhere near as well in a Hogaak meta as you imply.
part of the reason why you might not think so is due to the short amount of time the meta has existed as such. eldrazi tron would have eventually been more prominent because it's the best chalice of thees void deck. this is the card that matters most. now that hogaak has been nerfed, we will reclaim a bit of normalcy. from my observations, there are a lot of decks in modern, yes. but it's consistently the same type of deck that raises to the top.
phoenix
hogaak
devastation druid
eldrazi tron can pray on this meta because of chalice. not because it's a better deck.
what do the 3 decks have in common? they are all uninteractive decks that seek to end the game by t3. THIS is a representation of modern. this format, in my opinion, sucks. how do u fix this?
I imagine Stoneforge Mystic will be unbaned at some point, but they will wait till Modern needs a shake-up. With the new mulligan and all the new toys in Modern Horizons, there's no need to add it now.
Personally I love the format right now, and Modern Horizons did exactly what I hoped, made the format even more varied. Even with Hogaak being every where at that GP, it still felt great. Hogaak will still be a viable deck without having busted turn two kills, although in three matches that never happened.
If you don't feel there's enough interaction, play some yourself.
Off topic, but in response to this real quick. AIDS is not another name for HIV. AIDS is what you have when HIV is left untreated for years and progresses to the last stage of immunodeficiency caused by HIV. Just fyi, so you don't go around thinking HIV+ people have AIDS. That's a huge and important difference. Especially in this day where living with treated HIV allows a normal lifespan. You'd be worse off being out of shape, with diabetes or cancer, and many other degenerative diseases.
I played Neoform once over the weekend in an event. This is how G1 went:
I turned 2 blood moon, then blew up one of his 2 lands. Next Game.
He went off on T1, but actually messed up the combo and...lost.
We played a few more times and he pulled off the combo only once on T1. My opp seemed convince that something needs to be banned from that deck as it was super consistent for him otherwise (but variance didn't work out for him in our match).
What's everyone else's experience against or win Neoform? I can't imagine it gets nerfed but i could be wrong since the London Mulligan really benefits it.