Pioneer—a new nonrotating format featuring cards from Return to Ravnica and forward—is coming to tabletop and Magic Online events very soon!
The oldest Modern set came out in 2003—sixteen years ago. And now that Modern's card pool is this large, it no longer serves the needed role of "format where you can use your Standard cards after rotation." For players who started more recently and still want to play with their favorite cards after rotation, Pioneer, like Modern before it, bridges that gap while providing a fun experience for both tabletop and Magic Online. Currently, there are no plans to add it as a format to Magic: The Gathering Arena.
The initial banned list will include just five cards—the fetch lands: Bloodstained Mire, Flooded Strand, Polluted Delta, Windswept Heath, and Wooded Foothills.
We'll talk more about the B&R philosophy on Thursday, but the gist of the banning decision is as follows: mana bases with fetch lands and shock lands are very strong and make playing three or four colors too easy. Decks can become more homogenous and the format becomes more defined by how many of the strongest cards players can squeeze into one deck. More constraints on mana bases add diversity to the format and make decks play differently from one another.
well the willingness to just ban the fetch lands in the new format gives me hope for a proper reprint of the ZEN fetches at least, which is about as far as i care.
but the idea that cards from what currently passes for the average Standard set will see play in a format that includes RTR and Kaladesh blocks is pretty funny. RTR block Constructed is probably a more powerful format than the entirety of current Standard
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Yeah, they probably should have banned the cards that were banned in standard like they did when modern first came out, like Aetherworks marvel and Emrakul, the promised end.
Yeah, they probably should have banned the cards that were banned in standard like they did when modern first came out, like Aetherworks marvel and Emrakul, the promised end.
I think they made the right call waiting to see about that stuff. they did it for Modern, using the context of previous Standard, and how many cards on the initial list have proven that they never should have been banned? a bunch. 6 of those cards are currently in the format and not making any waves at all. a lot of cards especially in the last couple years were too strong because there was probably the fewest number of answers there has ever been in Standard. Marvel was broken because there was almost nothing to answer it. Marvel was banned before Abrade was even printed, it could have been fine if they had waited a few weeks. they should definitely wait and see
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Yeah, they probably should have banned the cards that were banned in standard like they did when modern first came out, like Aetherworks marvel and Emrakul, the promised end.
Nah. I would prefer a clean slate. Some of those cards could definitely be banned but I would rather the format grow and change naturally.
Yeah, they probably should have banned the cards that were banned in standard like they did when modern first came out, like Aetherworks marvel and Emrakul, the promised end.
And deal with the same outrage that occurred when they did the same for Modern? They made the right call.
What a silly thing. They just arbitrarily picked a starting point instead of applying an ounce of logic for the format.
I guess it's technically arbitrary, but it feels right. I had thought they were going to start with Origins to skip the fetches, but RTR is a much better starting point. it is the start of the higher print runs, it is the start of having very few super expensive cards, it is when the game got a HUGE influx of new players, it ties in nicely to the RTRTR that pretty much all current players know well, it was a golden age, and it was as far back as they could go without running into LotV type high price due to scarcity. like i said, i thought they were going to do Origins to skip the fetches, but RTR is where i personally would have put it, and the obvious place to put it if they were going to ban fetches. really the higher print run and more supply was probably one of the biggest deciding factors against going back earlier
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This is the list of cards from those sets that have been banned somewhere.
Smugglers Copter
Treasure Cruise
Dig Through Time
Deathrite Shaman
Aetherworks Marvel
Reflector Mage
Attune with Aether,
Rogue Refiner
Ramunap Ruins
Rampaging Ferocidon
Field of the dead
Felidar Guardian
Emerakul the promised end
What a silly thing. They just arbitrarily picked a starting point instead of applying an ounce of logic for the format.
I guess it's technically arbitrary, but it feels right. I had thought they were going to start with Origins to skip the fetches, but RTR is a much better starting point. it is the start of the higher print runs, it is the start of having very few super expensive cards, it is when the game got a HUGE influx of new players, it ties in nicely to the RTRTR that pretty much all current players know well, it was a golden age, and it was as far back as they could go without running into LotV type high price due to scarcity. like i said, i thought they were going to do Origins to skip the fetches, but RTR is where i personally would have put it, and the obvious place to put it if they were going to ban fetches. really the higher print run and more supply was probably one of the biggest deciding factors against going back earlier
What a silly thing. They just arbitrarily picked a starting point instead of applying an ounce of logic for the format.
I guess it's technically arbitrary, but it feels right. I had thought they were going to start with Origins to skip the fetches, but RTR is a much better starting point. it is the start of the higher print runs, it is the start of having very few super expensive cards, it is when the game got a HUGE influx of new players, it ties in nicely to the RTRTR that pretty much all current players know well, it was a golden age, and it was as far back as they could go without running into LotV type high price due to scarcity. like i said, i thought they were going to do Origins to skip the fetches, but RTR is where i personally would have put it, and the obvious place to put it if they were going to ban fetches. really the higher print run and more supply was probably one of the biggest deciding factors against going back earlier
I think there will be a lot of consternation that Innestrad was not the start date, since that was the set where the game's popularity really took off... But it is also a set with a lot of powerful and expensive cards, which is likely why it was not included.
Yeah, they probably should have banned the cards that were banned in standard like they did when modern first came out, like Aetherworks marvel and Emrakul, the promised end.
I think they made the right call waiting to see about that stuff. they did it for Modern, using the context of previous Standard, and how many cards on the initial list have proven that they never should have been banned? a bunch. 6 of those cards are currently in the format and not making any waves at all. a lot of cards especially in the last couple years were too strong because there was probably the fewest number of answers there has ever been in Standard. Marvel was broken because there was almost nothing to answer it. Marvel was banned before Abrade was even printed, it could have been fine if they had waited a few weeks. they should definitely wait and see
To add on, this was when they switching with rotation so sets like BfZ and Kaladesh and Amonkhet where in the same standard season when they weren't meant to be.
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What a silly thing. They just arbitrarily picked a starting point instead of applying an ounce of logic for the format.
Any set you choose to be the start date is entirely arbitrary.
Only if you consider the starting point of Modern to be entirely arbitrary as well.
It IS entirely arbitrary to start the format when they release a new card frame. Visual updates have nothing to do with what makes a format fun, exciting or unique.
Additionally, the card frame is used for vintage/Legacy/Commander-only cards and reprints, which negates the whole point of using the new frame as a justification for easily determining what is and is not legal in a format.
What a silly thing. They just arbitrarily picked a starting point instead of applying an ounce of logic for the format.
Any set you choose to be the start date is entirely arbitrary.
Only if you consider the starting point of Modern to be entirely arbitrary as well.
a lot of people do. but it isn't because it lines up with a change in frame. choosing the change in frame as the criteria was arbitrary, it could have been any number of things, including the creation of planeswalkers, but it was a clear shift in some visible way. RTR as the point is arbitrary, but it was also a clear turning point in Magic history
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Arbitrary or not, it seems a lot of interactions that were crowded out of modern should be viable and going slightly wider than the original Frontier proposal should allow things to be a little broader than the Frontier naysayers were scared off. There may actually be a possibility of my pet deck (mono w lifegain beats/soul sisters variants) to have some legs.
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
But plenty of powerful cards that quite likely get banned.
But till then its about time to unload on all the cards that might push in value for a short time ; just like with Frontiers, when people realize this is crap and dont care anymore.
But plenty of powerful cards that quite likely get banned.
But till then its about time to unload on all the cards that might push in value for a short time ; just like with Frontiers, when people realize this is crap and dont care anymore.
Except this is a completely legal format pushed by Wizards starting with GP's next year, 4 of them just like modern.
What a silly thing. They just arbitrarily picked a starting point instead of applying an ounce of logic for the format.
I guess it's technically arbitrary, but it feels right. I had thought they were going to start with Origins to skip the fetches, but RTR is a much better starting point. it is the start of the higher print runs, it is the start of having very few super expensive cards, it is when the game got a HUGE influx of new players, it ties in nicely to the RTRTR that pretty much all current players know well, it was a golden age, and it was as far back as they could go without running into LotV type high price due to scarcity. like i said, i thought they were going to do Origins to skip the fetches, but RTR is where i personally would have put it, and the obvious place to put it if they were going to ban fetches. really the higher print run and more supply was probably one of the biggest deciding factors against going back earlier
I think I read that the idea was that it is ~6 years of cards much like Modern was to start with.
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Pioneer—a new nonrotating format featuring cards from Return to Ravnica and forward—is coming to tabletop and Magic Online events very soon!
The oldest Modern set came out in 2003—sixteen years ago. And now that Modern's card pool is this large, it no longer serves the needed role of "format where you can use your Standard cards after rotation." For players who started more recently and still want to play with their favorite cards after rotation, Pioneer, like Modern before it, bridges that gap while providing a fun experience for both tabletop and Magic Online. Currently, there are no plans to add it as a format to Magic: The Gathering Arena.
The initial banned list will include just five cards—the fetch lands: Bloodstained Mire, Flooded Strand, Polluted Delta, Windswept Heath, and Wooded Foothills.
We'll talk more about the B&R philosophy on Thursday, but the gist of the banning decision is as follows: mana bases with fetch lands and shock lands are very strong and make playing three or four colors too easy. Decks can become more homogenous and the format becomes more defined by how many of the strongest cards players can squeeze into one deck. More constraints on mana bases add diversity to the format and make decks play differently from one another.
but the idea that cards from what currently passes for the average Standard set will see play in a format that includes RTR and Kaladesh blocks is pretty funny. RTR block Constructed is probably a more powerful format than the entirety of current Standard
I think they made the right call waiting to see about that stuff. they did it for Modern, using the context of previous Standard, and how many cards on the initial list have proven that they never should have been banned? a bunch. 6 of those cards are currently in the format and not making any waves at all. a lot of cards especially in the last couple years were too strong because there was probably the fewest number of answers there has ever been in Standard. Marvel was broken because there was almost nothing to answer it. Marvel was banned before Abrade was even printed, it could have been fine if they had waited a few weeks. they should definitely wait and see
Nah. I would prefer a clean slate. Some of those cards could definitely be banned but I would rather the format grow and change naturally.
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WB Amalia Benavides Aguirre
I guess it's technically arbitrary, but it feels right. I had thought they were going to start with Origins to skip the fetches, but RTR is a much better starting point. it is the start of the higher print runs, it is the start of having very few super expensive cards, it is when the game got a HUGE influx of new players, it ties in nicely to the RTRTR that pretty much all current players know well, it was a golden age, and it was as far back as they could go without running into LotV type high price due to scarcity. like i said, i thought they were going to do Origins to skip the fetches, but RTR is where i personally would have put it, and the obvious place to put it if they were going to ban fetches. really the higher print run and more supply was probably one of the biggest deciding factors against going back earlier
Any set you choose to be the start date is entirely arbitrary.
Smugglers Copter
Treasure Cruise
Dig Through Time
Deathrite Shaman
Aetherworks Marvel
Reflector Mage
Attune with Aether,
Rogue Refiner
Ramunap Ruins
Rampaging Ferocidon
Field of the dead
Felidar Guardian
Emerakul the promised end
I think there will be a lot of consternation that Innestrad was not the start date, since that was the set where the game's popularity really took off... But it is also a set with a lot of powerful and expensive cards, which is likely why it was not included.
Only if you consider the starting point of Modern to be entirely arbitrary as well.
To add on, this was when they switching with rotation so sets like BfZ and Kaladesh and Amonkhet where in the same standard season when they weren't meant to be.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It IS entirely arbitrary to start the format when they release a new card frame. Visual updates have nothing to do with what makes a format fun, exciting or unique.
Additionally, the card frame is used for vintage/Legacy/Commander-only cards and reprints, which negates the whole point of using the new frame as a justification for easily determining what is and is not legal in a format.
a lot of people do. but it isn't because it lines up with a change in frame. choosing the change in frame as the criteria was arbitrary, it could have been any number of things, including the creation of planeswalkers, but it was a clear shift in some visible way. RTR as the point is arbitrary, but it was also a clear turning point in Magic history
These surely need to be banned on sight
Without fetchlands they are quite a bit worse.
But plenty of powerful cards that quite likely get banned.
But till then its about time to unload on all the cards that might push in value for a short time ; just like with Frontiers, when people realize this is crap and dont care anymore.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Except this is a completely legal format pushed by Wizards starting with GP's next year, 4 of them just like modern.
I think I read that the idea was that it is ~6 years of cards much like Modern was to start with.