I mean, Blue is not really an enchantment color though. To the best of my knowledge it has very little enchantment support. If this was Artifacts it would be one thing, but it’s not. I don’t believe Green becomes a premier Artifact support color in blocks like Kaladesh/Mirrodin. I could be wrong but at least I didn’t recall anything too crazy, maybe as part of a cycle which this isn’t.
It doesn't have to be just Blue. Just any other color. Green is anti-artifact. It has a reason for it. Green hates artifice and civilized things. They're a perversion of nature. Other colors have no reason to feel similarly about enchantments. Except maybe Red. There's just no reason to so heavily load Green with such strong support but almost nothing for other colors. White is barely even getting anything compared to Green.
This card is stupid. And I don’t mean that in a good way.
2 mana (one being generic) for a 2/3 is good enough. Then you give it a static ability, a crazy good one.
Then you give it a 4 mana effect as strong as that? I hate it.
I have decks I should run this in and I don’t think I will just on principle.
A 2 mana 2/3 is not good enough for standard.
Solid cherry picking there bud
You said "2 mana (one being generic) for a 2/3 is good enough". What was that supposed to mean? For limited? Well this card is obviously designed with constructed at least partly in mind.
I don't think the uncounterable ability is 'crazy good' either, actually. It's good. But it's only good against blue decks and not every blue decks even runs any counterspells let alone enough for this to be crazy good. Prowling Serpopard was never a terror in standard or any other format.
Having both the abilities this card does ensure it actually see play because a 2 mana 2/3 wouldn't and this is obviously meant to push enchantment decks, because of course. Yes, it's strong. But it's not ridiculous. Questing Beast is easily more egregious as a card that's just very blatantly pushed IMO.
This card is stupid. And I don’t mean that in a good way.
2 mana (one being generic) for a 2/3 is good enough. Then you give it a static ability, a crazy good one.
Then you give it a 4 mana effect as strong as that? I hate it.
I have decks I should run this in and I don’t think I will just on principle.
A 2 mana 2/3 is not good enough for standard.
Solid cherry picking there bud
You said "2 mana (one being generic) for a 2/3 is good enough". What was that supposed to mean? For limited? Well this card is obviously designed with constructed at least partly in mind.
I don't think the uncounterable ability is 'crazy good' either, actually. It's good. But it's only good against blue decks and not every blue decks even runs any counterspells let alone enough for this to be crazy good. Prowling Serpopard was never a terror in standard or any other format.
Having both the abilities this card does ensure it actually see play because a 2 mana 2/3 wouldn't and this is obviously meant to push enchantment decks, because of course. Yes, it's strong. But it's not ridiculous. Questing Beast is easily more egregious as a card that's just very blatantly pushed IMO.
This card is stupid. And I don’t mean that in a good way.
2 mana (one being generic) for a 2/3 is good enough. Then you give it a static ability, a crazy good one.
Then you give it a 4 mana effect as strong as that? I hate it.
I have decks I should run this in and I don’t think I will just on principle.
A 2 mana 2/3 is not good enough for standard.
Solid cherry picking there bud
You said "2 mana (one being generic) for a 2/3 is good enough". What was that supposed to mean? For limited? Well this card is obviously designed with constructed at least partly in mind.
I don't think the uncounterable ability is 'crazy good' either, actually. It's good. But it's only good against blue decks and not every blue decks even runs any counterspells let alone enough for this to be crazy good. Prowling Serpopard was never a terror in standard or any other format.
Having both the abilities this card does ensure it actually see play because a 2 mana 2/3 wouldn't and this is obviously meant to push enchantment decks, because of course. Yes, it's strong. But it's not ridiculous. Questing Beast is easily more egregious as a card that's just very blatantly pushed IMO.
My comment has more to do with the fact that you just gave a full and perfectly valid rationalization of why this card isn’t too powerful for standard. And while you’re absolutely right in what you’re saying, I think it’s a stupid place to be for this game.
I love creatures. Their art is what drew me to the game. But I think they’re too much these days. I don’t think we should be giving valid descriptions of why a two mana 2/3 creature with these abilities is okay.
And I don’t play standard. I play that little format they call Commander. And in Commander this will always be impactful.
Both of those have excellent abilities. They’re not vanilla 2/3 creatures for 2 cmc.
This is still at the very least a sideboard option for Fires of Invention decks that dodges a considerable amount of 1 and 2 mana removal and ensures it hits the battlefield.
Both of those have excellent abilities. They’re not vanilla 2/3 creatures for 2 cmc.
This is still at the very least a sideboard option for Fires of Invention decks that dodges a considerable amount of 1 and 2 mana removal and ensures it hits the battlefield.
I don’t think you understand the argument happening here. One guy said that a 2/3 for 2 is good enough and shouldn’t have abilities. Another guy said a 2/3 for 2 is not good enough for standard without abilities. You agree with the second guy.
I love everything about this card. It has above bear stats it hoses my least favorite deck in standard,it's a 2 drop that provides a late game threat, the art is beautiful 10/10. Not sure it should be uncommon but that is just more upside.
Come on. The uncounterable part could have been on a blue card! Give other colors some enchantment love. It just doesn’t make sense for green to be both the enchantment hate color and the enchantress color.
Uncounterable is also a green ability, so it fits. Man the uncommons in this set are fantastic...wow.
Anyways, that's quite good even for an uncommon. This screams build-around in limited but has a great payoff it able to do it.
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This card is stupid. And I don’t mean that in a good way.
2 mana (one being generic) for a 2/3 is good enough. Then you give it a static ability, a crazy good one.
Then you give it a 4 mana effect as strong as that? I hate it.
I have decks I should run this in and I don’t think I will just on principle.
Do you refuse to use all good cards or just pick and choose arbitrarily?
i usually choose not to use blatantly obvious pushed cards that require zero thought to be successful with. I like synergy cards much more than dumb cards like this.
I play Commander casually and thus am afforded that option to choose arbitrarily as you think it is.
This card is stupid. And I don’t mean that in a good way.
2 mana (one being generic) for a 2/3 is good enough. Then you give it a static ability, a crazy good one.
Then you give it a 4 mana effect as strong as that? I hate it.
I have decks I should run this in and I don’t think I will just on principle.
Do you refuse to use all good cards or just pick and choose arbitrarily?
i usually choose not to use blatantly obvious pushed cards that require zero thought to be successful with. I like synergy cards much more than dumb cards like this.
I play Commander casually and thus am afforded that option to choose arbitrarily as you think it is.
It is arbitrary. Most of the best cards in the game are just good cards that can slot into many or most decks without specific synergy. It’s always been that way. Black Lotus doesn’t synergize with anything specifically, it synergizes with everything.
This card is stupid. And I don’t mean that in a good way.
2 mana (one being generic) for a 2/3 is good enough. Then you give it a static ability, a crazy good one.
Then you give it a 4 mana effect as strong as that? I hate it.
I have decks I should run this in and I don’t think I will just on principle.
Do you refuse to use all good cards or just pick and choose arbitrarily?
i usually choose not to use blatantly obvious pushed cards that require zero thought to be successful with. I like synergy cards much more than dumb cards like this.
I play Commander casually and thus am afforded that option to choose arbitrarily as you think it is.
It is arbitrary. Most of the best cards in the game are just good cards that can slot into many or most decks without specific synergy. It’s always been that way. Black Lotus doesn’t synergize with anything specifically, it synergizes with everything.
I can understand not liking “strategy-in-a-can” cards, which I think is what is being disliked here.
Resplendent Angel is a cost efficient beater who turns life gain into angels and also has the ability to become that lifegain.
Urza, Lord High Artificer uses artifacts to make mana and creates an artifact to make some mana and gives you a mana sink for that mana.
While this card isn’t nearly as bad, it’s still a decent enchantment creature that protects your enchantments and creature and turns your lands into creature that are bigger if you have enchantments.
There are plenty of cards out there that aren’t “strategy in a can”. Bloom tender, demonic Tutor, cyclonic rift, Purphoros, Craterhoof Behemoth, Oracle of Mul Daya, Path to Exile... all of those cards do important and powerful things without acting as an enabler and a protector and a payoff. Where cards like “Greater Auramancy” are nice, they don’t try to fill multiple roles in the way that the new Woe Strider or this card does.
While turning away cards that seem too powerful is an odd choice, I can understand wanting to use your slots on cards that aren’t one-card toolkits.
This card is stupid. And I don’t mean that in a good way.
2 mana (one being generic) for a 2/3 is good enough. Then you give it a static ability, a crazy good one.
Then you give it a 4 mana effect as strong as that? I hate it.
I have decks I should run this in and I don’t think I will just on principle.
Do you refuse to use all good cards or just pick and choose arbitrarily?
i usually choose not to use blatantly obvious pushed cards that require zero thought to be successful with. I like synergy cards much more than dumb cards like this.
I play Commander casually and thus am afforded that option to choose arbitrarily as you think it is.
It is arbitrary. Most of the best cards in the game are just good cards that can slot into many or most decks without specific synergy. It’s always been that way. Black Lotus doesn’t synergize with anything specifically, it synergizes with everything.
I can understand not liking “strategy-in-a-can” cards, which I think is what is being disliked here.
Resplendent Angel is a cost efficient beater who turns life gain into angels and also has the ability to become that lifegain.
Urza, Lord High Artificer uses artifacts to make mana and creates an artifact to make some mana and gives you a mana sink for that mana.
While this card isn’t nearly as bad, it’s still a decent enchantment creature that protects your enchantments and creature and turns your lands into creature that are bigger if you have enchantments.
There are plenty of cards out there that aren’t “strategy in a can”. Bloom tender, demonic Tutor, cyclonic rift, Purphoros, Craterhoof Behemoth, Oracle of Mul Daya, Path to Exile... all of those cards do important and powerful things without acting as an enabler and a protector and a payoff. Where cards like “Greater Auramancy” are nice, they don’t try to fill multiple roles in the way that the new Woe Strider or this card does.
While turning away cards that seem too powerful is an odd choice, I can understand wanting to use your slots on cards that aren’t one-card toolkits.
Rosy Dumplings understands my position perfectly and communicated my perspective much more eloquently than I was able. Thank you.
I don’t turn away all powerful cards. I turn away cards that are “strategy-in-a-can” - I love that term.
What bothers me is that we are seeing these designs more and more frequently than ever. I’m not a fan of that direction.
The silver lining is that I don’t need to chase these cards.
First of all, before 2019 blue was the best color in modern. It just has the best late game... DRAW A CARD.
Guess what color was 2nd? yep, white. It has an excellent answer for just about anything making it the top choice to support any deck.
One could make a case that red or black is tied for 3rd with green a distant fifth since the banning on fastbond.
Let's take a look at greens game plans
A. Stompy Aggro: outright inferior to burn
B. Ramp: an inherent combo deck which presents a huge issue on multiple fronts. You need to have the right combination of lands, ramp, and payoff... Just to have your payoff countered or plowshared?
Green foresty things are a lot more mystical than white castles. Green should dominate enchantments since it hates artifacts and IS THE ONLY COLOR that offered ZERO playable INTERACTION with opponents CREATURES. An 8/8 trampler on turn 4 doesn't beat a 1 or 2 Mana removal spell or counterspell.
Green used to be just as good at drawing as black. That disappeared too!... exacerbating the problem of dork-ramp-payoff-payoff killed-scoop
You want to go back to the era where green gets 2 for 1d from auras when their whole initial plan is to get 2 for 1d on an ramp-monster combo? Have you played magic before 2019? Before green was EASILY the weakest color on the pie, relying on Elves as their saving grace.
So:
Green:
Not the best at aggro
Flawed combo game plan
Narrow interaction, artifacts, enchantments, flyers
Minimal draw
Every color has creatures, green just has the biggest ones that die to doomblade anyway. Trust me dude, green went through a dark age between about 2000 and 2018. Green getting some power enchantments/planeswalkers has been a LONG LONG LONG time coming.
Eh. 5 mana plus isn't super helpful. Not to mention he's not an enchantment himself(Not that he couldn't have been). It was more on the point of In the enchantment set they should be giving cards that care about enchantments or are good enchantments to more than just Green. Green gets an enchantment planeswalker, a creature that combines Exploration and Prismatic Omen, one that makes good blockers when your opponent casts instants and sorceries, yet another, better enchantress, an enchantment that Pods your other enchantments into creatures, and this card.
On the other hand they couldn't even let Rise to Glory get any enchantment. I'd have happily gave up the and on that card if they felt like doing both was to much for 5 mana. And what else? A five mana looter on Constellation? Hard meh. I guess if you can recur Kiora Bests the Sea God it's pretty good. So far Archon of Sun's Grace is probably the best, non-Green card for an enchantment deck. Getting Idyllic Tutor's cost down is nice. Ashiok's Erasure is an enchantment based counterspell, which is nice I guess?
Unlike Tiro I'm not happy just having a nice thematic deck.
Honestly even as someone who is thrilled and satisfied with having a thematic deck, I still think these concerns are valid
As a 2/3 with no abilities it would barely even see limited play
With the first ability its fair and would see minor sideboard play
The third ability is expensive and depends on your boardstate, thats also fair
This thing will see the most play in edh enchantess builds, and will be ignored everywhere else. It might see standard play depending on how things shape up, but modern, legacy, and pioneer? Doubtful unless something can really exploit it.
Look at what it does instead of just that it has words. The time of grizzly bears is passed, move on. This fits into greens slice of pie pretty perfectly and is an interesting design too.
It wont break any format.
Oh, and uh... dies to removal is very, very, very, valid.
As a 2/3 with no abilities it would barely even see limited play
With the first ability its fair and would see minor sideboard play
The third ability is expensive and depends on your boardstate, thats also fair
This thing will see the most play in edh enchantess builds, and will be ignored everywhere else. It might see standard play depending on how things shape up, but modern, legacy, and pioneer? Doubtful unless something can really exploit it.
Look at what it does instead of just that it has words. The time of grizzly bears is passed, move on. This fits into greens slice of pie pretty perfectly and is an interesting design too.
It wont break any format.
This guy gets it. It's a 2/3 with a wincon attached for later. It does enhance Nissa lands though for that win more spice.
25 enchantments deck here I come!
This theros is overpowered and it's fantastic. Not going to see Oko in 80% of decks because eldraine lacked powerful alternatives.
First of all, before 2019 blue was the best color in modern. It just has the best late game... DRAW A CARD.
Guess what color was 2nd? yep, white. It has an excellent answer for just about anything making it the top choice to support any deck.
One could make a case that red or black is tied for 3rd with green a distant fifth since the banning on fastbond.
Let's take a look at greens game plans
A. Stompy Aggro: outright inferior to burn
B. Ramp: an inherent combo deck which presents a huge issue on multiple fronts. You need to have the right combination of lands, ramp, and payoff... Just to have your payoff countered or plowshared?
Green foresty things are a lot more mystical than white castles. Green should dominate enchantments since it hates artifacts and IS THE ONLY COLOR that offered ZERO playable INTERACTION with opponents CREATURES. An 8/8 trampler on turn 4 doesn't beat a 1 or 2 Mana removal spell or counterspell.
Green used to be just as good at drawing as black. That disappeared too!... exacerbating the problem of dork-ramp-payoff-payoff killed-scoop
You want to go back to the era where green gets 2 for 1d from auras when their whole initial plan is to get 2 for 1d on an ramp-monster combo? Have you played magic before 2019? Before green was EASILY the weakest color on the pie, relying on Elves as their saving grace.
So:
Green:
Not the best at aggro
Flawed combo game plan
Narrow interaction, artifacts, enchantments, flyers
Minimal draw
Every color has creatures, green just has the biggest ones that die to doomblade anyway. Trust me dude, green went through a dark age between about 2000 and 2018. Green getting some power enchantments/planeswalkers has been a LONG LONG LONG time coming.
I’m not sure what modern you’re talking about since Fastbond has never been modern legal.
I’ve been playing magic since 2012 and in that time Green was ALWAYS a part of Modern. Jund and Abzan were always prevalent forces in the meta. More recently Blue has been sowing off with the banning of twin and the raw impotence of UW control.
Blue is slowly losing its place is Modern. It’s draw has been relegated to cantrips, which is basically a player saying “I want fewer cards in my deck.” If it weren’t for WhUrza I imagine blue would be practically unrepresented.
None of Greens presence in any formats meta has had anything to do with its relationship to enchantments.
And if we talk about commander, the gentlepersons format,(which I have been) there would be no argument. Green is without a doubt the best color in commander. It ramps far better than any other color. Draws cards not effectively than black and as well or better in many cases than blue. Sure it doesn’t remove creatures extremely well but it can in a pinch and can deal with literally every other permanent type with excellent efficacy. And all I’m asking is that WotC remember that other colors exist.
As a 2/3 with no abilities it would barely even see limited play
With the first ability its fair and would see minor sideboard play
The third ability is expensive and depends on your boardstate, thats also fair
This thing will see the most play in edh enchantess builds, and will be ignored everywhere else. It might see standard play depending on how things shape up, but modern, legacy, and pioneer? Doubtful unless something can really exploit it.
Look at what it does instead of just that it has words. The time of grizzly bears is passed, move on. This fits into greens slice of pie pretty perfectly and is an interesting design too.
It wont break any format.
Oh, and uh... dies to removal is very, very, very, valid.
This is why responding to a cherry picked sentence in a paragraph of thought is a bad thing.
The whole point of my post has nothing to do with how this card impacts any individual format.
It’s not about any one aspect of the card or any specific line item. It’s about the whole picture. Will it make waves in any format? Maybe not. But to me, THAT’S what I dislike. We Magic players have become so desensitized to creature power levels that a 2/3 with three abilities for two mana means very little to people. I find that absurd and dislike the direction.
I argue that it’s not an interesting design. I also argue that “the time of grizzly bears has passed” is a lazy argument. We have more ways to support our creatures and other permanents than ever. More ways to combat their removal and thus I argue that the creature or permanent doesn’t need to have its own protection. That’s what deck building is for. Now we are just in the era of play good stuff and slam cards.
As it’s been said, this card has a whole package in one text box and for a very low cost. Wizards has printed all-in-one cards for a long time but the pattern of them happening at lower and lower rarities And mana costs is not so old. It’s not a trend I’m fond of.
UW/Esper control dominated for A LONG time. So did Tron. So did Shadow. You didn't mention primetime. There was a time when jund was pretty good, green was not even the secondary color in that. It was tertiary(3rd). Same goes for bant control. I've been playing since 95. You do not know what green domination looks like. Green's rise came with Nissa and company. Before that, green was a joke and at most, a Titan splash. What, loam like 10 years ago? Why don't you look up some decklists over the past ten years. White cards in decks triple green. Wizards recognized how bad of a teferi meta it was and they nerfed the hell out of it. It's Green's turn. Get over it.
UW/Esper control dominated for A LONG time. So did Tron. So did Shadow. You didn't mention primetime. There was a time when jund was pretty good, green was not even the secondary color in that. It was tertiary(3rd). Same goes for bant control. I've been playing since 95. You do not know what green domination looks like. Green's rise came with Nissa and company. Before that, green was a joke and at most, a Titan splash. What, loam like 10 years ago? Why don't you look up some decklists over the past ten years. White cards in decks triple green. Wizards recognized how bad of a teferi meta it was and they nerfed the hell out of it. It's Green's turn. Get over it.
In my research UWX decks have never truly dominated. What about Tron? Tron is a Green deck. And yeah, sure, primetime, banned in commander, got Summer Bloom banned in modern. The same way you(falsely) claim that Green was the tertiary color of Jund and Abzan Blue is barely present in in Shadow. It uses some cantrips. Death Shadow could just as easily be a RB deck. And lets talk a little about CoCo, huh? It's 5 years old and it's been a prominent card in Modern since it was released. And that was certainly not a recent phenomenon of 2019. And what did CoCo do? Replace the recently banned Birthing pod. which enabled a combo that could be made entirely of Green cards. And Jund and Abzan? They owe a substantial amount of their greatness in modern to Tarmogoyf which only lost prominence with the combination of the ban of Deathrite Shaman and the release of Fatal push. And you were kind enough to remind me of Loam. Dredge is heavily reliant on Green thanks to Loam and Vengevine. How many times has Golgari Grave Troll gotten banned? How about Infect? Also heavily reliant on Green cards. Bogles? Wouldn't be a thing if it weren't for important Green creatures. Scapeshift, Amulet Bloom, Scales Affinity the list of powerful Green based decks goes on and on. 8 of the 36 cards on the Modern Banned list are that's somewhere around 1/4 and 1/5 of the banned list just in Green(Admittedly two of those are hybrid black). What's white got? Lingering Souls and path. Until recently they had 1 banned card, Stoneforge Mystic.
Nevermind that I haven't at all been talking about only Modern. Many of those cards, like Goyf and Nimble Mongoose, have provided Green a foothold in Legacy. Green has been strong in standard for more than just the past year. And, as I mentioned before, Commander. Green is by a wide margin the strongest color in Commander. I'll leave pioneer alone because it's only a year old but it has also been heavily dominated by Green since it's inception.
All I'm asking for is the other colors to get some love when it comes to a set's theme and that there be a little more logic in the colors relationship to a major part of the game. Green is hogging a disproportionate swathe of this set's good cards.
Edit: Seriously what Modern are you talking about. It hasn’t even been a thing for 10 years.
White has gotten Idyllic Tutor, Archon of Sun's Grace, Banishing Light and Starfield Mystic from M20, among other enchantment related cards. It's hardly missing out. Black too, has gotten some good cards with Treacherous Blessing, Aphemia, the Cacophony, and Tymaret Calls the Dead. What has green gotten that's so disproportionate? This, Setessan Champion, Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, Nyx Herald?
Green is getting quite strong enchantment support, yeah, but green isn't being heavily loaded with support while the others get 'almost nothing'.
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I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Solid cherry picking there bud. The game as a whole does not need uncommon two mana creatures with this many abilities and these stats.
You said "2 mana (one being generic) for a 2/3 is good enough". What was that supposed to mean? For limited? Well this card is obviously designed with constructed at least partly in mind.
I don't think the uncounterable ability is 'crazy good' either, actually. It's good. But it's only good against blue decks and not every blue decks even runs any counterspells let alone enough for this to be crazy good. Prowling Serpopard was never a terror in standard or any other format.
Having both the abilities this card does ensure it actually see play because a 2 mana 2/3 wouldn't and this is obviously meant to push enchantment decks, because of course. Yes, it's strong. But it's not ridiculous. Questing Beast is easily more egregious as a card that's just very blatantly pushed IMO.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
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Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
My comment has more to do with the fact that you just gave a full and perfectly valid rationalization of why this card isn’t too powerful for standard. And while you’re absolutely right in what you’re saying, I think it’s a stupid place to be for this game.
I love creatures. Their art is what drew me to the game. But I think they’re too much these days. I don’t think we should be giving valid descriptions of why a two mana 2/3 creature with these abilities is okay.
And I don’t play standard. I play that little format they call Commander. And in Commander this will always be impactful.
Do you refuse to use all good cards or just pick and choose arbitrarily?
Both of those have excellent abilities. They’re not vanilla 2/3 creatures for 2 cmc.
I don’t think you understand the argument happening here. One guy said that a 2/3 for 2 is good enough and shouldn’t have abilities. Another guy said a 2/3 for 2 is not good enough for standard without abilities. You agree with the second guy.
Uncounterable is also a green ability, so it fits. Man the uncommons in this set are fantastic...wow.
Anyways, that's quite good even for an uncommon. This screams build-around in limited but has a great payoff it able to do it.
'buster
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i usually choose not to use blatantly obvious pushed cards that require zero thought to be successful with. I like synergy cards much more than dumb cards like this.
I play Commander casually and thus am afforded that option to choose arbitrarily as you think it is.
It is arbitrary. Most of the best cards in the game are just good cards that can slot into many or most decks without specific synergy. It’s always been that way. Black Lotus doesn’t synergize with anything specifically, it synergizes with everything.
I can understand not liking “strategy-in-a-can” cards, which I think is what is being disliked here.
Resplendent Angel is a cost efficient beater who turns life gain into angels and also has the ability to become that lifegain.
Urza, Lord High Artificer uses artifacts to make mana and creates an artifact to make some mana and gives you a mana sink for that mana.
While this card isn’t nearly as bad, it’s still a decent enchantment creature that protects your enchantments and creature and turns your lands into creature that are bigger if you have enchantments.
There are plenty of cards out there that aren’t “strategy in a can”. Bloom tender, demonic Tutor, cyclonic rift, Purphoros, Craterhoof Behemoth, Oracle of Mul Daya, Path to Exile... all of those cards do important and powerful things without acting as an enabler and a protector and a payoff. Where cards like “Greater Auramancy” are nice, they don’t try to fill multiple roles in the way that the new Woe Strider or this card does.
While turning away cards that seem too powerful is an odd choice, I can understand wanting to use your slots on cards that aren’t one-card toolkits.
Rosy Dumplings understands my position perfectly and communicated my perspective much more eloquently than I was able. Thank you.
I don’t turn away all powerful cards. I turn away cards that are “strategy-in-a-can” - I love that term.
What bothers me is that we are seeing these designs more and more frequently than ever. I’m not a fan of that direction.
The silver lining is that I don’t need to chase these cards.
Guess what color was 2nd? yep, white. It has an excellent answer for just about anything making it the top choice to support any deck.
One could make a case that red or black is tied for 3rd with green a distant fifth since the banning on fastbond.
Let's take a look at greens game plans
A. Stompy Aggro: outright inferior to burn
B. Ramp: an inherent combo deck which presents a huge issue on multiple fronts. You need to have the right combination of lands, ramp, and payoff... Just to have your payoff countered or plowshared?
Green foresty things are a lot more mystical than white castles. Green should dominate enchantments since it hates artifacts and IS THE ONLY COLOR that offered ZERO playable INTERACTION with opponents CREATURES. An 8/8 trampler on turn 4 doesn't beat a 1 or 2 Mana removal spell or counterspell.
Green used to be just as good at drawing as black. That disappeared too!... exacerbating the problem of dork-ramp-payoff-payoff killed-scoop
You want to go back to the era where green gets 2 for 1d from auras when their whole initial plan is to get 2 for 1d on an ramp-monster combo? Have you played magic before 2019? Before green was EASILY the weakest color on the pie, relying on Elves as their saving grace.
So:
Green:
Not the best at aggro
Flawed combo game plan
Narrow interaction, artifacts, enchantments, flyers
Minimal draw
Every color has creatures, green just has the biggest ones that die to doomblade anyway. Trust me dude, green went through a dark age between about 2000 and 2018. Green getting some power enchantments/planeswalkers has been a LONG LONG LONG time coming.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
As a 2/3 with no abilities it would barely even see limited play
With the first ability its fair and would see minor sideboard play
The third ability is expensive and depends on your boardstate, thats also fair
This thing will see the most play in edh enchantess builds, and will be ignored everywhere else. It might see standard play depending on how things shape up, but modern, legacy, and pioneer? Doubtful unless something can really exploit it.
Look at what it does instead of just that it has words. The time of grizzly bears is passed, move on. This fits into greens slice of pie pretty perfectly and is an interesting design too.
It wont break any format.
Oh, and uh... dies to removal is very, very, very, valid.
This guy gets it. It's a 2/3 with a wincon attached for later. It does enhance Nissa lands though for that win more spice.
25 enchantments deck here I come!
This theros is overpowered and it's fantastic. Not going to see Oko in 80% of decks because eldraine lacked powerful alternatives.
I’m not sure what modern you’re talking about since Fastbond has never been modern legal.
I’ve been playing magic since 2012 and in that time Green was ALWAYS a part of Modern. Jund and Abzan were always prevalent forces in the meta. More recently Blue has been sowing off with the banning of twin and the raw impotence of UW control.
Blue is slowly losing its place is Modern. It’s draw has been relegated to cantrips, which is basically a player saying “I want fewer cards in my deck.” If it weren’t for WhUrza I imagine blue would be practically unrepresented.
None of Greens presence in any formats meta has had anything to do with its relationship to enchantments.
And if we talk about commander, the gentlepersons format,(which I have been) there would be no argument. Green is without a doubt the best color in commander. It ramps far better than any other color. Draws cards not effectively than black and as well or better in many cases than blue. Sure it doesn’t remove creatures extremely well but it can in a pinch and can deal with literally every other permanent type with excellent efficacy. And all I’m asking is that WotC remember that other colors exist.
This is why responding to a cherry picked sentence in a paragraph of thought is a bad thing.
The whole point of my post has nothing to do with how this card impacts any individual format.
It’s not about any one aspect of the card or any specific line item. It’s about the whole picture. Will it make waves in any format? Maybe not. But to me, THAT’S what I dislike. We Magic players have become so desensitized to creature power levels that a 2/3 with three abilities for two mana means very little to people. I find that absurd and dislike the direction.
I argue that it’s not an interesting design. I also argue that “the time of grizzly bears has passed” is a lazy argument. We have more ways to support our creatures and other permanents than ever. More ways to combat their removal and thus I argue that the creature or permanent doesn’t need to have its own protection. That’s what deck building is for. Now we are just in the era of play good stuff and slam cards.
As it’s been said, this card has a whole package in one text box and for a very low cost. Wizards has printed all-in-one cards for a long time but the pattern of them happening at lower and lower rarities And mana costs is not so old. It’s not a trend I’m fond of.
But hey, just play strong cards amirite?!
In my research UWX decks have never truly dominated. What about Tron? Tron is a Green deck. And yeah, sure, primetime, banned in commander, got Summer Bloom banned in modern. The same way you(falsely) claim that Green was the tertiary color of Jund and Abzan Blue is barely present in in Shadow. It uses some cantrips. Death Shadow could just as easily be a RB deck. And lets talk a little about CoCo, huh? It's 5 years old and it's been a prominent card in Modern since it was released. And that was certainly not a recent phenomenon of 2019. And what did CoCo do? Replace the recently banned Birthing pod. which enabled a combo that could be made entirely of Green cards. And Jund and Abzan? They owe a substantial amount of their greatness in modern to Tarmogoyf which only lost prominence with the combination of the ban of Deathrite Shaman and the release of Fatal push. And you were kind enough to remind me of Loam. Dredge is heavily reliant on Green thanks to Loam and Vengevine. How many times has Golgari Grave Troll gotten banned? How about Infect? Also heavily reliant on Green cards. Bogles? Wouldn't be a thing if it weren't for important Green creatures. Scapeshift, Amulet Bloom, Scales Affinity the list of powerful Green based decks goes on and on. 8 of the 36 cards on the Modern Banned list are that's somewhere around 1/4 and 1/5 of the banned list just in Green(Admittedly two of those are hybrid black). What's white got? Lingering Souls and path. Until recently they had 1 banned card, Stoneforge Mystic.
Nevermind that I haven't at all been talking about only Modern. Many of those cards, like Goyf and Nimble Mongoose, have provided Green a foothold in Legacy. Green has been strong in standard for more than just the past year. And, as I mentioned before, Commander. Green is by a wide margin the strongest color in Commander. I'll leave pioneer alone because it's only a year old but it has also been heavily dominated by Green since it's inception.
All I'm asking for is the other colors to get some love when it comes to a set's theme and that there be a little more logic in the colors relationship to a major part of the game. Green is hogging a disproportionate swathe of this set's good cards.
Edit: Seriously what Modern are you talking about. It hasn’t even been a thing for 10 years.