Why did Thassa spike so hard right before the prerelease?
Wild speculation is always wild.
Let us remember to be thankful that we cannot treat cards which have not yet been released as if they were securities; otherwise, there would be unscrupulous short-sellers out there. "I bought that pre-release card for $10 the day it was first spoiled and now it is trading at $30, so I'll sell it to you for only $15 which is 50% off" when the person making the offer does not have the card in hand to sell.
Why did Thassa spike so hard right before the prerelease?
Wild speculation is always wild.
Let us remember to be thankful that we cannot treat cards which have not yet been released as if they were securities; otherwise, there would be unscrupulous short-sellers out there. "I bought that pre-release card for $10 the day it was first spoiled and now it is trading at $30, so I'll sell it to you for only $15 which is 50% off" when the person making the offer does not have the card in hand to sell.
Ideally a card game could just be a card game and not an “investment.” I never appreciated the hysteria, speculation and hoarding aspect of MTG. Compromising the game for such dismal profits. The Ballista ban will crash Heliod, brakes on the hype train likely to drop Thassa, and well, I can’t say what will become of Nykthos and Pioneer. But I am starting to get a toxic Yugioh feeling from the way 2019/2020 are headed
Ideally a card game could just be a card game and not an “investment.” I never appreciated the hysteria, speculation and hoarding aspect of MTG.
Strange, I feel the same way - but with the inclusion of all the literary drama in my "list of things Magic doesn't need." Card games are meant to be played, and that's about it.
Ideally a card game could just be a card game and not an “investment.” I never appreciated the hysteria, speculation and hoarding aspect of MTG.
Strange, I feel the same way - but with the inclusion of all the literary drama in my "list of things Magic doesn't need." Card games are meant to be played, and that's about it.
All I can see this accomplishing is delaying casuals from the cards we want over hypothetical nonsense for chump change margins. Between hysteria about the ”next big card” to invest in and the deficient reprint policy, I’ve observed the barrier to a casual format like commander become downright alienating. I’m not so sure this is very promising overall. I know I departed Yugioh over similar things.
Is there more money in providing those cards to self-described 'casuals'? I don't think there is, but then I'm not privy to Wizards' market research / data.
Last time I checked, the barrier to entry for Commander was ~$35, give or take.
A little speculation is fine while hoarding is a personal problem one should address with one's counselor or therapist. I collect--when I can, which used to be more frequent than it is these days; in fact, just before I had to get out of Magic after being stabbed in the back I was *very* close to having a complete playset of Standard--4 or more of every card legal in that format. Yes, I can approximate the total value of all the cards I currently own as "somewhere just shy of $15,000"...which would buy me only about *half* of a competetive Vintage deck *yeesh*...but I am not going to obsess over card prices or get upset if something gets banned and tanks an individual card's value. Most speculators are betting that a card will be an "all-star" in some format and almost all of them wind up being wrong.
I'd appreciate any advice on when to pick up Serpent of Yawning Depths? It's almost $20... I hope that price won't hold. Ideally these being in collector's packs as well and being rather underwhelming cards outside of casual will make them more accessible. I was expecting them to be a dollar or two honestly.
I loved the gods having Homeric-like epithets in this visit. We have:
"What you’re seeing is Magic’s Franchise team testing and learning. Starting with Dominaria fiction we increased our investment and ambition in how we want to delivery great story to our fans. What if we were able to build a talent pool of authors that mirrored our talent pool of illustrators? What new delivery channels could we use to expand the reach of our fiction?
"Since Dominaria, you’ve seen us expand our author pool, enter into new licensed partnerships for comics and novels, and vary both the number of stories released and the length of those stories. We want to best understand the tone that works for our audience as well as the specific content that resonates most successfully in any given narrative expression (short form vs. comics vs. long form, for example). To do that we have to create opportunities to test and learn.
"With Wildered Quest, we released our first new-era ePub through Penguin Random House. It was more successful than anticipated and was well received. The blowback from Forsaken illuminated that we needed a better validation strategy not only for issues of representation, but for narrative content in general; so we made the hard call to delay Theros Beyond Death fiction until we could create a new vetting process. That unfortunately meant that we would miss our intended release window. We did our best to leverage our preview plans and marketing support to deliver the broad strokes of the story so people weren’t left completely in the lurch, but we know you are disappointed and we are too. We’re doing everything we can to ensure this will be a one-time cost for a smoother future.
"With Ikoria we will return to an ePub strategy, and we will also find the correct time and channel to release the Theros Beyond Death fiction. Maybe it will be part of an anthology, or direct to Audible, or as a graphic novel.
"Magic fandom deserves a publishing program as robust and enjoyable as the TCG, and Magic’s Franchise Team is committed to delivering exactly that. In the meantime, don’t be dismayed when you see us try new things. Don’t be shy in telling us when something doesn’t work (imagine a big smiley face emoji when I say that historically this hasn’t been an issue), but, more importantly, make sure you tell us what you love. That’s what we want to deliver."
-Jeremy Jarvis
So yeah they realized they been rushing out the story without enough editing and quality control. Positive is they do want to release the Theros 2 story at some point so while I'm saying this as excuse for it, glad we will see it hopefully in some form.
Private Mod Note
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
"What you’re seeing is Magic’s Franchise team testing and learning. Starting with Dominaria fiction we increased our investment and ambition in how we want to delivery great story to our fans. What if we were able to build a talent pool of authors that mirrored our talent pool of illustrators? What new delivery channels could we use to expand the reach of our fiction?
"Since Dominaria, you’ve seen us expand our author pool, enter into new licensed partnerships for comics and novels, and vary both the number of stories released and the length of those stories. We want to best understand the tone that works for our audience as well as the specific content that resonates most successfully in any given narrative expression (short form vs. comics vs. long form, for example). To do that we have to create opportunities to test and learn.
"With Wildered Quest, we released our first new-era ePub through Penguin Random House. It was more successful than anticipated and was well received. The blowback from Forsaken illuminated that we needed a better validation strategy not only for issues of representation, but for narrative content in general; so we made the hard call to delay Theros Beyond Death fiction until we could create a new vetting process. That unfortunately meant that we would miss our intended release window. We did our best to leverage our preview plans and marketing support to deliver the broad strokes of the story so people weren’t left completely in the lurch, but we know you are disappointed and we are too. We’re doing everything we can to ensure this will be a one-time cost for a smoother future.
"With Ikoria we will return to an ePub strategy, and we will also find the correct time and channel to release the Theros Beyond Death fiction. Maybe it will be part of an anthology, or direct to Audible, or as a graphic novel.
"Magic fandom deserves a publishing program as robust and enjoyable as the TCG, and Magic’s Franchise Team is committed to delivering exactly that. In the meantime, don’t be dismayed when you see us try new things. Don’t be shy in telling us when something doesn’t work (imagine a big smiley face emoji when I say that historically this hasn’t been an issue), but, more importantly, make sure you tell us what you love. That’s what we want to deliver."
-Jeremy Jarvis
So yeah they realized they been rushing out the story without enough editing and quality control. Positive is they do want to release the Theros 2 story at some point so while I'm saying this as excuse for it, glad we will see it hopefully in some form.
I'm quite satisfied with this response. Kudos to Jarvis.
Thank Thassa. I am very pleased there will be a Theros story after all, albeit delayed. Hopefully it is sooner than later. I can’t tell though if there is already one written that is being evaluated, or if they’re just planning one for the future, with no actual material? Hopefully the former.
In short: War of the Spark ****ed it up for everyone and they were spooked by it. Nice to see them admitting this and are going back to the latest tried-and-true approach.
This ought to be interesting moving forward.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
In short: War of the Spark ****ed it up for everyone and they were spooked by it. Nice to see them admitting this and are going back to the latest tried-and-true approach.
This ought to be interesting moving forward.
'buster
It genuinely irks me that Greg Weisman and his incompetent trash compromised the Theros story release for us all. As if Vorthos didn’t suffer enough enduring what he did to the Bolas arc and all the characters and relationships creative worked so hard to establish. Let alone the insult to injury. I doubt this vetting process for Theros fiction was even warranted. This was a Greg weisman issue. Unless he was the author, they could have just released the Theros ebook. That said, I understand why they needed to take this approach. But if Kate Elliot and the Wildered Quest demonstrated anything, it’s that Greg was the problem, not consumer sensitivity, not the lore itself, but a horrible “author” who smashed the “novels” he “wrote” together the night before on dragon software with Junior high locker room banter in the background evidently.
In short: War of the Spark ****ed it up for everyone and they were spooked by it. Nice to see them admitting this and are going back to the latest tried-and-true approach.
This ought to be interesting moving forward.
'buster
It genuinely irks me that Greg Weisman and his incompetent trash compromised the Theros story release for us all. As if Vorthos didn’t suffer enough enduring what he did to the Bolas arc and all the characters and relationships creative worked so hard to establish. Let alone the insult to injury. I doubt this vetting process for Theros fiction was even warranted. This was a Greg weisman issue. Unless he was the author, they could have just released the Theros ebook. That said, I understand why they needed to take this approach. But if Kate Elliot and the Wildered Quest demonstrated anything, it’s that Greg was the problem, not consumer sensitivity, not the lore itself, but a horrible “author” who smashed the “novels” he “wrote” together the night before on dragon software with Junior high locker room banter in the background evidently.
Greg wasn't the problem alone, someone had to approve his work and since he is an outsider they probably gave him the plot and some details to write about, did they requested him to get up to date in magic lore? who gave the green light on the whole teyo-rat sub plot, Greg in fact stated on twitter that the Chandra-Nissa resolution was requested by higher ups.
Greg writing was terrible but I doubt he is the one responsible for the content.
In short: War of the Spark ****ed it up for everyone and they were spooked by it. Nice to see them admitting this and are going back to the latest tried-and-true approach.
This ought to be interesting moving forward.
'buster
It genuinely irks me that Greg Weisman and his incompetent trash compromised the Theros story release for us all. As if Vorthos didn’t suffer enough enduring what he did to the Bolas arc and all the characters and relationships creative worked so hard to establish. Let alone the insult to injury. I doubt this vetting process for Theros fiction was even warranted. This was a Greg weisman issue. Unless he was the author, they could have just released the Theros ebook. That said, I understand why they needed to take this approach. But if Kate Elliot and the Wildered Quest demonstrated anything, it’s that Greg was the problem, not consumer sensitivity, not the lore itself, but a horrible “author” who smashed the “novels” he “wrote” together the night before on dragon software with Junior high locker room banter in the background evidently.
Greg wasn't the problem alone, someone had to approve his work and since he is an outsider they probably gave him the plot and some details to write about, did they requested him to get up to date in magic lore? who gave the green light on the whole teyo-rat sub plot, Greg in fact stated on twitter that the Chandra-Nissa resolution was requested by higher ups.
Greg writing was terrible but I doubt he is the one responsible for the content.
^^^ This. Greg writing was only one part of the issues. While the authors are given creative wiggle room unless told otherwise we don't know what the author added, but anything we see in card form we know is what creative put in. All we know is Greg de-aged Teyo and made him a pov character and added in Rat. The plot lines and character arc are also out of his hands as he mentioned during interviews for war of the spark he was told that certain character where gonna be restricted in how he could used them since they where in up coming stories (he calls out Tibalt in the Chandra comic for example).
My questions is too is why hired Greg, an outsider unfamiliar with the lore and work to wrapped up a 5/10 year plot line instead of Sanderson or Khaw who are fan and familiar with it? Where was the editors to fix up the writing? Why doesn't Doug Beyer, a senior member of the creative team, get to read the final draft of the novels? Why release the Gathering Storm so late when a lot what its plot was kinda need to fill in stuff from War?
This speaks to issues far beyond one authors writing and a whole lot of how the process of the ebooks is going.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
In short: War of the Spark ****ed it up for everyone and they were spooked by it. Nice to see them admitting this and are going back to the latest tried-and-true approach.
This ought to be interesting moving forward.
'buster
It genuinely irks me that Greg Weisman and his incompetent trash compromised the Theros story release for us all. As if Vorthos didn’t suffer enough enduring what he did to the Bolas arc and all the characters and relationships creative worked so hard to establish. Let alone the insult to injury. I doubt this vetting process for Theros fiction was even warranted. This was a Greg weisman issue. Unless he was the author, they could have just released the Theros ebook. That said, I understand why they needed to take this approach. But if Kate Elliot and the Wildered Quest demonstrated anything, it’s that Greg was the problem, not consumer sensitivity, not the lore itself, but a horrible “author” who smashed the “novels” he “wrote” together the night before on dragon software with Junior high locker room banter in the background evidently.
I'd say part of the blame goes to Weissman, but another part of the blame goes to the overreacting fans, especially the diehard fan(atics) who were up in arms about Chandra and Nissa and the issue of gay representation. You can blame Weissman for that if you want, but I'll point out that he's also the one that gave us a gay Ral Zarek and the one who had Chandra tell Nissa she loved her, even if it was retconned the next book. People massively overreacted here based on something that was NEVER confirmed.
Another part of the problem is the whole concept of "books by committee", which is what these books actually were. I doubt Greg had much creative freedom to actually write anything. Kate Elliot by comparison had more freedom as there wasn't years of buildup and backstory for Wildered Quest, but I think in both cases, most of the story was already written before either author got to start.
That said, his books were pretty badly written - well, at least WotS was, I couldn't bring myself to buy the second one so I don't know for sure, but I can't imagine it being any better.
In short: War of the Spark ****ed it up for everyone and they were spooked by it. Nice to see them admitting this and are going back to the latest tried-and-true approach.
This ought to be interesting moving forward.
'buster
It genuinely irks me that Greg Weisman and his incompetent trash compromised the Theros story release for us all. As if Vorthos didn’t suffer enough enduring what he did to the Bolas arc and all the characters and relationships creative worked so hard to establish. Let alone the insult to injury. I doubt this vetting process for Theros fiction was even warranted. This was a Greg weisman issue. Unless he was the author, they could have just released the Theros ebook. That said, I understand why they needed to take this approach. But if Kate Elliot and the Wildered Quest demonstrated anything, it’s that Greg was the problem, not consumer sensitivity, not the lore itself, but a horrible “author” who smashed the “novels” he “wrote” together the night before on dragon software with Junior high locker room banter in the background evidently.
I'd say part of the blame goes to Weissman, but another part of the blame goes to the overreacting fans, especially the diehard fan(atics) who were up in arms about Chandra and Nissa and the issue of gay representation. You can blame Weissman for that if you want, but I'll point out that he's also the one that gave us a gay Ral Zarek and the one who had Chandra tell Nissa she loved her, even if it was retconned the next book. People massively overreacted here based on something that was NEVER confirmed.
You're giving Weissman way too much credit. Gay Ral was mostly from Django Wexler, and the Chandra-Nissa pairing had enough build-up in previous stories that only a complete idiot would miss it and not deliver.
I'd say part of the blame goes to Weissman, but another part of the blame goes to the overreacting fans, especially the diehard fan(atics) who were up in arms about Chandra and Nissa and the issue of gay representation. You can blame Weissman for that if you want, but I'll point out that he's also the one that gave us a gay Ral Zarek and the one who had Chandra tell Nissa she loved her, even if it was retconned the next book. People massively overreacted here based on something that was NEVER confirmed.
You're giving Weissman way too much credit. Gay Ral was mostly from Django Wexler, and the Chandra-Nissa pairing had enough build-up in previous stories that only a complete idiot would miss it and not deliver.
I stand corrected on Gay Ral, but it doesn't actually matter who is responsible for it, it was there. That goes against the accusations of lack of inclusion, which is the point.
As for Chandra-Nissa, link some stories that concretely establish them as an actual couple instead of really good friends who depend on each other. I've been reading the stories on the main site for years now and all I ever got from it was that the two of them had a pretty deep friendship, but that's all it ever was.
The issues is after years of only hinting at and keep the romance at subtext level, they have Chandra break up with Nissa in part for being only into men and Nissa just being hot/a phase. For a company that talks about how its want to have a representation of more minorities in their game this was a horrible case of queer baiting, something that has been a huge issue for queer rep and that make anything they have done feel disingenuous.
As for Chandra-Nissa, link some stories that concretely establish them as an actual couple instead of really good friends who depend on each other. I've been reading the stories on the main site for years now and all I ever got from it was that the two of them had a pretty deep friendship, but that's all it ever was.
"I've never spent so long in cities before," Nissa said. "Between Kaladesh and here, I've had more than my share of people."
"You seem to be getting along fine," Chandra replied.
Nissa shook her head. "I have gotten better at hiding my discomfort. Being around others so often is draining."
"But not with us, right?"
The question caught Nissa's attention. She watched Chandra intently unbuckle and rebuckle the same strap of her vambrace.
Nissa frowned. Thought over her words. "Yes and no."
Fiddling hands paused, while a meandering mind searched for the words to lend shape to unfamiliar feelings.
"Friendship with all of the Gatewatch is still quite new. I'm still trying to understand what it means to have friends in the first place," Nissa said.
Chandra made a small noise and looked out on the plaza, her posture heavy and leaden, her fingers suddenly quite still.
Nissa continued. "On Zendikar, I was without the company of people for most of my life. The plane was the closest thing to a friend I had. Learning to trust has been . . . slow—and there is still much for me to learn. Understanding and sustaining friendships is daunting when one has never really done it before."
Chandra shifted awkwardly. "So . . . friendship?"
Nissa blinked. Chandra worked very hard not to stare.
"Yes," Nissa smiled.
Nissa closed her eyes, and took another deep breath, her headache receding. It felt good to confess insecurities. She smiled and looked Chandra in the eye.
"I am thankful for your companionship. You have taught me much about what it means to be a friend, Chandra. It means much to me."
"Right. Yeah." A soft smile returned to Chandra's face.
Again going back to this being queer baited this was the most it ever got to Nissa and Chandra before saying they have feelings...or rather the original draft before it was edited;
So the intent was always Chandra and Nissa would start having a romantic relationship.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Honestly as a gay man it’s not just the queer baiting. It’s also Weisman’s deprived, elementary, and insulting lack of talent and tact that made everything about the novels a horrid disaster worthy of all nine Phyrexian circles. “Chandra was never into girls.”
“Into”
“Girls”
Ayyyyye you into girls? Ajani asked, grinning his leonin grin.
Ayyyyeee I’m into chicks when I’m in a phase and they hot” Chandra replied, grinning her intelligent primate with opposable thumbs grin.
It just added insult to injury, and had this tone that genuinely felt like the passages could belong to a homophobic parent talking their kid out of something that is “just a phase.” But with the worst, most insensitive, callous and deficient writing possible, as if intentionally sabotaging an emotional moment for his own amusement. I’m actually surprised he didn’t write flatulence into the scene to keep Seven year olds engaged. Oh, right, he already used that in the first words of the last book.
In the hands of a competent author, this creative decision to part Chandra and Nissa or even retcon could have been acceptable, welcomed even. Kelly Digges and Alison Lurhs managed to make even the hating hipsters actually admire Jace Beleren And many more to relate to him. In fact, their work is praised. What a decision like this required was valid reasoning, circumstance and emotional gravity. It’s an art. A monumental task required at least a capable author. Not the most rudimentary appendage conceivable. What did Wizards pay this guy with, cheeseburgers? I just couldn’t believe what I was reading. It felt like a seizure.
Someone on Amazon said it best. “It’s like the 8th season of Game of Thrones, but with horrible grammar.”
Whatever. Please bring back the creative te short stories or Jenna Helland or Kate Elliott for Theros and let’s please forget WAR.
That sudden about face makes me think someone caved to social conservatism in some form or another, which is bad taste and soured it for everyone.
Me I'm in an exploratory state after years of suppression, so seeing a storyline cater to this is enlightening. The baiting factor is not, though I can sort of appreciate the reasons for doing so. But the sudden change at the end? Nuh uh!
*sigh* Being able to be a strong woman like Jhoira is a dream that I will make happen soon. (oh snap! did 'buster just reveal something deep? )
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I'd say part of the blame goes to Weissman, but another part of the blame goes to the overreacting fans, especially the diehard fan(atics) who were up in arms about Chandra and Nissa and the issue of gay representation. You can blame Weissman for that if you want, but I'll point out that he's also the one that gave us a gay Ral Zarek and the one who had Chandra tell Nissa she loved her, even if it was retconned the next book. People massively overreacted here based on something that was NEVER confirmed.
You're giving Weissman way too much credit. Gay Ral was mostly from Django Wexler, and the Chandra-Nissa pairing had enough build-up in previous stories that only a complete idiot would miss it and not deliver.
I stand corrected on Gay Ral, but it doesn't actually matter who is responsible for it, it was there. That goes against the accusations of lack of inclusion, which is the point.
As for Chandra-Nissa, link some stories that concretely establish them as an actual couple instead of really good friends who depend on each other. I've been reading the stories on the main site for years now and all I ever got from it was that the two of them had a pretty deep friendship, but that's all it ever was.
So you're saying as long as token representation is offered up, the inclusion quota is met and everyone should be happy?
Quite a lot of people in this forum have been complaining about tokenism from the right, that just checking off boxes doesn't make for compelling characters. And while that's obviously not a reason to not make queer characters (c'mon, duh), it sounds like your own expectations are just checking off boxes.
I don't think "lack of inclusion" is the point exactly in this specific case. It's the deliberate erasure of queer themes in a character. Ral being gay doesn't compensate for Chandra being portrayed as "going through a phase." It might not be something that particularly upsets you, most likely because it does not personally affect you in any way, but that doesn't mean someone else who is bothered by it is overreacting. It also doesn't mean that they're *not* overreacting depending on how they choose to express their feelings. But you're trying to invalidate the feelings themselves which is seriously uncool.
What is astonishing is that War of the spark was their grand finale to a 5 years arc that started in Battle for zendikar, they committed to the arc,developed characters, romance, conflicts, they hyped the arc, they made a big deal about its ending in War of the Spark, the greatest event in Magic since the end of the weatherlight saga.
They spent millions on the animated video which was supper, they made a teaser that left us wanting to know more.
I can't believe the person in charge gave a green light to the war of the spark plot, and then the novel. Who ever was in charge of approving this: doesn't care, has bad taste or maybe he is one of those "i know what is best" guys and thought he had a good "story" for the ending.
And it is a shame because it will take years before we have this kind of build up again, it was a big missed opportunity to engage players in the story (every one was paying attention, the set was story driven, you have 36 PW in it) and really make us engage emotionally with the characters. And they blew it out of the atmosphere.
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Wild speculation is always wild.
Let us remember to be thankful that we cannot treat cards which have not yet been released as if they were securities; otherwise, there would be unscrupulous short-sellers out there. "I bought that pre-release card for $10 the day it was first spoiled and now it is trading at $30, so I'll sell it to you for only $15 which is 50% off" when the person making the offer does not have the card in hand to sell.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Strange, I feel the same way - but with the inclusion of all the literary drama in my "list of things Magic doesn't need." Card games are meant to be played, and that's about it.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Last time I checked, the barrier to entry for Commander was ~$35, give or take.
*checks prices on MM*
Yup, ~$35.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I loved the gods having Homeric-like epithets in this visit. We have:
Thassa, Deep-Dwelling
Heliod, Sun-Crowned
Purphoros, Bronze-Blooded
Nylea, Keen-Eyed
Erebos, Bleak-Hearted
Kruphix, All-Seeing (love this one)
Mogis, Rage-Crowned (my least favorite, too similar to Heliod)
Athreos, Veil-Shrouded
Wish we knew a few more
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/odds-ends-theros-beyond-death-2020-01-27
So yeah they realized they been rushing out the story without enough editing and quality control. Positive is they do want to release the Theros 2 story at some point so while I'm saying this as excuse for it, glad we will see it hopefully in some form.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I'm quite satisfied with this response. Kudos to Jarvis.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
This ought to be interesting moving forward.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Greg wasn't the problem alone, someone had to approve his work and since he is an outsider they probably gave him the plot and some details to write about, did they requested him to get up to date in magic lore? who gave the green light on the whole teyo-rat sub plot, Greg in fact stated on twitter that the Chandra-Nissa resolution was requested by higher ups.
Greg writing was terrible but I doubt he is the one responsible for the content.
^^^ This. Greg writing was only one part of the issues. While the authors are given creative wiggle room unless told otherwise we don't know what the author added, but anything we see in card form we know is what creative put in. All we know is Greg de-aged Teyo and made him a pov character and added in Rat. The plot lines and character arc are also out of his hands as he mentioned during interviews for war of the spark he was told that certain character where gonna be restricted in how he could used them since they where in up coming stories (he calls out Tibalt in the Chandra comic for example).
My questions is too is why hired Greg, an outsider unfamiliar with the lore and work to wrapped up a 5/10 year plot line instead of Sanderson or Khaw who are fan and familiar with it? Where was the editors to fix up the writing? Why doesn't Doug Beyer, a senior member of the creative team, get to read the final draft of the novels? Why release the Gathering Storm so late when a lot what its plot was kinda need to fill in stuff from War?
This speaks to issues far beyond one authors writing and a whole lot of how the process of the ebooks is going.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I'd say part of the blame goes to Weissman, but another part of the blame goes to the overreacting fans, especially the diehard fan(atics) who were up in arms about Chandra and Nissa and the issue of gay representation. You can blame Weissman for that if you want, but I'll point out that he's also the one that gave us a gay Ral Zarek and the one who had Chandra tell Nissa she loved her, even if it was retconned the next book. People massively overreacted here based on something that was NEVER confirmed.
Another part of the problem is the whole concept of "books by committee", which is what these books actually were. I doubt Greg had much creative freedom to actually write anything. Kate Elliot by comparison had more freedom as there wasn't years of buildup and backstory for Wildered Quest, but I think in both cases, most of the story was already written before either author got to start.
That said, his books were pretty badly written - well, at least WotS was, I couldn't bring myself to buy the second one so I don't know for sure, but I can't imagine it being any better.
You're giving Weissman way too much credit. Gay Ral was mostly from Django Wexler, and the Chandra-Nissa pairing had enough build-up in previous stories that only a complete idiot would miss it and not deliver.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I stand corrected on Gay Ral, but it doesn't actually matter who is responsible for it, it was there. That goes against the accusations of lack of inclusion, which is the point.
As for Chandra-Nissa, link some stories that concretely establish them as an actual couple instead of really good friends who depend on each other. I've been reading the stories on the main site for years now and all I ever got from it was that the two of them had a pretty deep friendship, but that's all it ever was.
Again going back to this being queer baited this was the most it ever got to Nissa and Chandra before saying they have feelings...or rather the original draft before it was edited;
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/64z9oz/this_chandra_quote_from_todays_magic_story/
Which show more os Chandra asking if Nissa would want more then friendship currently.
After the backlash all this came out, we got several word of gods;
Michael Yichao, former writer and creative member on how Chandra and Nissa where queer and how hurtful to him as a bi man they turned out;
https://twitter.com/michaelyichao/status/1194621563695288325
A queer consulted who was brought in at the being on the Bolas arc about Nissa and Chandra becoming a couple;
https://twitter.com/ReclusiveWizard/status/1194676796395884544
and finally Maro saying right out Chandra is into other genders;
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/189378532673/so-is-chandra-pansexual-im-horrible-with
So the intent was always Chandra and Nissa would start having a romantic relationship.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
“Into”
“Girls”
Ayyyyye you into girls? Ajani asked, grinning his leonin grin.
Ayyyyeee I’m into chicks when I’m in a phase and they hot” Chandra replied, grinning her intelligent primate with opposable thumbs grin.
It just added insult to injury, and had this tone that genuinely felt like the passages could belong to a homophobic parent talking their kid out of something that is “just a phase.” But with the worst, most insensitive, callous and deficient writing possible, as if intentionally sabotaging an emotional moment for his own amusement. I’m actually surprised he didn’t write flatulence into the scene to keep Seven year olds engaged. Oh, right, he already used that in the first words of the last book.
In the hands of a competent author, this creative decision to part Chandra and Nissa or even retcon could have been acceptable, welcomed even. Kelly Digges and Alison Lurhs managed to make even the hating hipsters actually admire Jace Beleren And many more to relate to him. In fact, their work is praised. What a decision like this required was valid reasoning, circumstance and emotional gravity. It’s an art. A monumental task required at least a capable author. Not the most rudimentary appendage conceivable. What did Wizards pay this guy with, cheeseburgers? I just couldn’t believe what I was reading. It felt like a seizure.
Someone on Amazon said it best. “It’s like the 8th season of Game of Thrones, but with horrible grammar.”
Whatever. Please bring back the creative te short stories or Jenna Helland or Kate Elliott for Theros and let’s please forget WAR.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Me I'm in an exploratory state after years of suppression, so seeing a storyline cater to this is enlightening. The baiting factor is not, though I can sort of appreciate the reasons for doing so. But the sudden change at the end? Nuh uh!
*sigh* Being able to be a strong woman like Jhoira is a dream that I will make happen soon. (oh snap! did 'buster just reveal something deep? )
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
So you're saying as long as token representation is offered up, the inclusion quota is met and everyone should be happy?
Quite a lot of people in this forum have been complaining about tokenism from the right, that just checking off boxes doesn't make for compelling characters. And while that's obviously not a reason to not make queer characters (c'mon, duh), it sounds like your own expectations are just checking off boxes.
I don't think "lack of inclusion" is the point exactly in this specific case. It's the deliberate erasure of queer themes in a character. Ral being gay doesn't compensate for Chandra being portrayed as "going through a phase." It might not be something that particularly upsets you, most likely because it does not personally affect you in any way, but that doesn't mean someone else who is bothered by it is overreacting. It also doesn't mean that they're *not* overreacting depending on how they choose to express their feelings. But you're trying to invalidate the feelings themselves which is seriously uncool.
They spent millions on the animated video which was supper, they made a teaser that left us wanting to know more.
I can't believe the person in charge gave a green light to the war of the spark plot, and then the novel. Who ever was in charge of approving this: doesn't care, has bad taste or maybe he is one of those "i know what is best" guys and thought he had a good "story" for the ending.
And it is a shame because it will take years before we have this kind of build up again, it was a big missed opportunity to engage players in the story (every one was paying attention, the set was story driven, you have 36 PW in it) and really make us engage emotionally with the characters. And they blew it out of the atmosphere.