Why does it matter? I'm talking about their pricing. They are increasing their pricing immediatly with the second wind of this product.
So what if i spend 25€ every week on magic boosters? They'll jump the price of a booster pack from 4 to 25 and i have to shut up because that's how much i spend on magic
Have you checked the prices of the original art Gods in foil? If you bought each one in foil, as of TCG prices today, it would be ~$465 for 15 cards... or you can get cards that haven't been available or reprinted, as a newer player or a fan of the new art style for a fraction of the cost...
Your high horse sir/madam, please dismount it. These products aren't for everyone, and that's ok. You have plenty of other things to look forward to this year as far as other products go.
Ooooooooooh, so wizard just fully aknowledged the secondary market and started to price their products based on that and i have to shut up because "the products is not for everyone" and "i'm on a high horse". Nice!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Okay, Flamebuster sent me his original post and here is my response to it, in case someone followed that subelement of this discussion:
Me, in response to 'buster's original post, which referred to MTGS user Tiro of Meletis:
"Haha! I believe he might have gotten a good laugh out of it. I guess I kinda get what the moderators were concerned with here, though, so yeah. Still a funny comment in my view."
His post, in my view, was on topic and a funny reference to a well known member of this community.
Someone mentioned me? I didn’t see anything. Now I’m curious what it was lol
Why does it matter? I'm talking about their pricing. They are increasing their pricing immediatly with the second wind of this product.
By increasing their pricing do you mean leaving it the same or something else? Because they aren't increasing their pricing it is still 39.99
The initial secret lairs had $30 lairs, only 2:7 were $40. The following one had only one lair at $40. The third one has five secret lairs at $40 but no $30 lairs.
The illusion is that they haven't raised the price. But if they don't also have $30 lairs, then the price is rising without an announcement having to be made as the $30 secret lairs might be discontinued.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Warriors, torch-bearers, come redeem our dreams
Shine a light upon this night of otherworldly fiends
Odin's might be your guide, divorce you from the sane
Hammer's way will have its say, rise up in their name
Scratching hag, you rake your claws, gnash your crooked teeth
You've taken slaves like ocean waves, now feel the ocean seethe
- Children of the Elder Gods by Poets of the Fall
Why does it matter? I'm talking about their pricing. They are increasing their pricing immediatly with the second wind of this product.
By increasing their pricing do you mean leaving it the same or something else? Because they aren't increasing their pricing it is still 39.99
The initial secret lairs had $30 lairs, only 2:7 were $40. The following one had only one lair at $40. The third one has five secret lairs at $40 but no $30 lairs.
The illusion is that they haven't raised the price. But if they don't also have $30 lairs, then the price is rising without an announcement having to be made as the $30 secret lairs might be discontinued.
It's not an illusion. They haven't raised the price. They have always had ones at $40, not doing any at $30 doesn't mean they have raised the price when they have always done $40. Even if they never do another one at $30 it wouldn't mean they increased their price. Once they do one for $45 or anything higher than before then they will have increased their price.
By increasing their pricing do you mean leaving it the same or something else? Because they aren't increasing their pricing it is still 39.99
Bro i can't wait for the next wave where they'll have lairs for 50$. I can't really wait to see what excuse you will make up for that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
And just so you know the snow covered lands was still not a good one in a way people would prefer getting enough basic lands for a deck
If anything, I would argue that that raises the price even MORE, because people want more sets to get enough basics for decks or cube, thus increasing demand
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Someone mentioned me? I didn’t see anything. Now I’m curious what it was lol
I guess since Flamebuster originally posted it publicly, he won't mind if I PM you the post, but I'd prefer being sure and getting his okay. I believe you might get a good laugh out of it, especially given your first comment in this thread.
Why does it matter? I'm talking about their pricing. They are increasing their pricing immediatly with the second wind of this product.
So what if i spend 25€ every week on magic boosters? They'll jump the price of a booster pack from 4 to 25 and i have to shut up because that's how much i spend on magic
Have you checked the prices of the original art Gods in foil? If you bought each one in foil, as of TCG prices today, it would be ~$465 for 15 cards... or you can get cards that haven't been available or reprinted, as a newer player or a fan of the new art style for a fraction of the cost...
Your high horse sir/madam, please dismount it. These products aren't for everyone, and that's ok. You have plenty of other things to look forward to this year as far as other products go.
Ooooooooooh, so wizard just fully aknowledged the secondary market and started to price their products based on that and i have to shut up because "the products is not for everyone" and "i'm on a high horse". Nice!
It matters because the only thing that actually seems to require a defense here is how people choose to spend their money, not Wizard's pricing structure. So what if they're $40 each? From the outside looking in, someone like us blowing any amount of money on printed card stock looks ridiculous, and I don't see anyone waxing judgmental over your spending proclivities. As long as there are people out there who will derive some measure of joy from owning this product, it's not our business to tell them - or Wizards - how to do business with each other. If there was actually a problem, rest assured it would sort itself out without your input.
I think you might be missing the point. While they haven't come out and addressed the secondary market (due to legal reasons), Original Theros came out 7 years ago. Unlike many of the cards in the previous secret lairs, these are all mythics, and we still don't know if there will be additional bonus cards in them to further increase their value.
WotC clearly saw an opportunity to double down on the Theros Constellation God art and got all of them done. We as the consumer, whether new player, veteran or collector, have a chance to get a limited edition premium product. It's not going to appeal to everyone. Case and point, this is MY first secret lair drop purchase. The previous ones didn't appeal to me enough to make me pull the trigger. The best value for these things is often in buying the bundle to save money and flipping the ones you don't want/care for to recoup some of the cost of what you did want. Would I have bought the bundle if it was $200 with no discount? No, probably not. At a $10 discount on each (making them all $30) with $10 in tax and free shipping? It was a bargain considering the cost of acquiring all of the foil originals at today's prices.
Would these things be bothering you if they were $30 flat with no discount or incentive to purchase the bundle? ...That's how businesses work. Sam's Club, Costco... hell, the food you buy in the grocery store incentivizes you to buy the bigger packs from a value perspective. You don't get to go to the store and buy the nice product at the bundled price and only get a single.
Addressing a later comment you made about the cost of things rising. I will agree that masters products should be closer to the $7-8 per pack range like they used to be, but that's due more to the epic misses they have in the set to balance it. I won't agree with you if your position is that they should be the same cost as regular packs. While that would be nicer on the wallet, they're making different products for different audiences. If you're expecting something like one of these secret lairs to be the same cost as the *Explosion sounds* goblin drop, you're a little crazy (as that thing was the equivalent of a dumpster fire).
For the record, I actually prefer the original set for all the gods, original Theros and Theros beyond death. I just bought these in the event I get that collector’s itch someday and regret doing it when they were still attainable. There will never be a Thassa art I love more than Zack Stella’s for THB and I love the vibrant colors of Jason Chan’s as well
By increasing their pricing do you mean leaving it the same or something else? Because they aren't increasing their pricing it is still 39.99
Bro i can't wait for the next wave where they'll have lairs for 50$. I can't really wait to see what excuse you will make up for that.
If you expect an excuse for why its $50 I can probably give it to you already "The contents are worth more than that." or "Its an awful product why should you be mad it's expensive if no one wants it?" Generally I don't have a problem with what ever a source chooses to charge for its product or service, if it's too high I don't partake. I understand that there could be value in getting gathering people to insist it isn't worth that much, in hopes of the price lowering but I don't see any value in attacking people who think it is worth what it's selling for. If you expect me to try and claim they aren't raising the prices when the do in fact raise prices, don't. They didn't raise prices here so I pointed out that they didn't when others claimed they did. I don't enjoy opinions presented as facts and try and point out such violations when I see them.
I also think $40 is too expensive for these. Justifying the price with foil prices of these cards is not appropriate. Foils of the original gods command that price because of scarcity. Their sets are no longer in print, and it was challenging to pull a foil mythic from draft boosters before collector’s packs. It’s not the same as a print-to-demand set selling three singles at a comparable rate to the secondary market that WOtC is evidently unable to acknowledge.
I understand that having paid that rate for these, one could argue they’re worth what I was willing to pay for them. It was the pressure of these being exclusive and limited that really drove that decision, though. I was thinking about the future, not the present.
These aren’t RL though. So it’s possible they could show up elsewhere regardless.
The illusion is that they haven't raised the price. But if they don't also have $30 lairs, then the price is rising without an announcement having to be made as the $30 secret lairs might be discontinued.
You're missing one thing here though: these drops are completely symmetrical. Each one contains one mono-, one ally- and one enemy-colored god, so it would be weird to price the individual drops differently.
Not to say they would never try to raise the average price for more profit, but this run of secret lairs is a bad example to base your assumption on.
I’m interested to see the “full sky” with 15 gods. Seems interesting.
My gripe with secret lair is just its so hard to obtain in certain regions (Philippines for example). I would either bother my friends in the US and have them bring home that bulky box, or just buy in the secondary market. But ultimately it is fine missing out on these.
I just might get Purphoros as a single if someone sells them locally at a fair price.
The price point is completely acceptable. It's normal for companies to price goods and services at a level that attracts a target audience. After decades of playing this game, I'm willing to pay a premium for unique products that are more visually appealing. I'd be much less interested if they cost $10 each and every 13 year old had a pile of them in their trade binder. Also keep in mind that most, if not all, of these Secret Lair cards will appreciate in value over time given their scarcity. Let's wait a few years before we start discussing their value.
I’m interested to see the “full sky” with 15 gods. Seems interesting.
My gripe with secret lair is just its so hard to obtain in certain regions (Philippines for example). I would either bother my friends in the US and have them bring home that bulky box, or just buy in the secondary market. But ultimately it is fine missing out on these.
I just might get Purphoros as a single if someone sells them locally at a fair price.
I received an email from Original Magic Art, and you can get a playmat of that. However, that email said that Jason Engle had originally drawn this sky view as a single art piece, so no stitching.
I suppose if Wizards returns to Theros one more time, they can fill out this sky view with all the gods. Then, it would not look lopsided with Klothys not having a demigod.
Why does it matter? I'm talking about their pricing. They are increasing their pricing immediatly with the second wind of this product.
So what if i spend 25€ every week on magic boosters? They'll jump the price of a booster pack from 4 to 25 and i have to shut up because that's how much i spend on magic
Ooooooooooh, so wizard just fully aknowledged the secondary market and started to price their products based on that and i have to shut up because "the products is not for everyone" and "i'm on a high horse". Nice!
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
The illusion is that they haven't raised the price. But if they don't also have $30 lairs, then the price is rising without an announcement having to be made as the $30 secret lairs might be discontinued.
Shine a light upon this night of otherworldly fiends
Odin's might be your guide, divorce you from the sane
Hammer's way will have its say, rise up in their name
Scratching hag, you rake your claws, gnash your crooked teeth
You've taken slaves like ocean waves, now feel the ocean seethe
- Children of the Elder Gods by Poets of the Fall
Δε φοβάμαι τίποτα...
Είμαι Άνεργος.
Grimstringer on Cockatrice, add me if you wanna
Bro i can't wait for the next wave where they'll have lairs for 50$. I can't really wait to see what excuse you will make up for that.
If anything, I would argue that that raises the price even MORE, because people want more sets to get enough basics for decks or cube, thus increasing demand
I guess since Flamebuster originally posted it publicly, he won't mind if I PM you the post, but I'd prefer being sure and getting his okay. I believe you might get a good laugh out of it, especially given your first comment in this thread.
; )
It matters because the only thing that actually seems to require a defense here is how people choose to spend their money, not Wizard's pricing structure. So what if they're $40 each? From the outside looking in, someone like us blowing any amount of money on printed card stock looks ridiculous, and I don't see anyone waxing judgmental over your spending proclivities. As long as there are people out there who will derive some measure of joy from owning this product, it's not our business to tell them - or Wizards - how to do business with each other. If there was actually a problem, rest assured it would sort itself out without your input.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
WotC clearly saw an opportunity to double down on the Theros Constellation God art and got all of them done. We as the consumer, whether new player, veteran or collector, have a chance to get a limited edition premium product. It's not going to appeal to everyone. Case and point, this is MY first secret lair drop purchase. The previous ones didn't appeal to me enough to make me pull the trigger. The best value for these things is often in buying the bundle to save money and flipping the ones you don't want/care for to recoup some of the cost of what you did want. Would I have bought the bundle if it was $200 with no discount? No, probably not. At a $10 discount on each (making them all $30) with $10 in tax and free shipping? It was a bargain considering the cost of acquiring all of the foil originals at today's prices.
Would these things be bothering you if they were $30 flat with no discount or incentive to purchase the bundle? ...That's how businesses work. Sam's Club, Costco... hell, the food you buy in the grocery store incentivizes you to buy the bigger packs from a value perspective. You don't get to go to the store and buy the nice product at the bundled price and only get a single.
Addressing a later comment you made about the cost of things rising. I will agree that masters products should be closer to the $7-8 per pack range like they used to be, but that's due more to the epic misses they have in the set to balance it. I won't agree with you if your position is that they should be the same cost as regular packs. While that would be nicer on the wallet, they're making different products for different audiences. If you're expecting something like one of these secret lairs to be the same cost as the *Explosion sounds* goblin drop, you're a little crazy (as that thing was the equivalent of a dumpster fire).
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I understand that having paid that rate for these, one could argue they’re worth what I was willing to pay for them. It was the pressure of these being exclusive and limited that really drove that decision, though. I was thinking about the future, not the present.
These aren’t RL though. So it’s possible they could show up elsewhere regardless.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
As usual, Keranos is looking sexy af.
Wish he were with Thassa instead of Ephara,
but I get they wanted one enemy color + one ally color god per set.
You're missing one thing here though: these drops are completely symmetrical. Each one contains one mono-, one ally- and one enemy-colored god, so it would be weird to price the individual drops differently.
Not to say they would never try to raise the average price for more profit, but this run of secret lairs is a bad example to base your assumption on.
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
But looking at the value of all the gods in normal non foil it’s already above the value of 150$
My gripe with secret lair is just its so hard to obtain in certain regions (Philippines for example). I would either bother my friends in the US and have them bring home that bulky box, or just buy in the secondary market. But ultimately it is fine missing out on these.
I just might get Purphoros as a single if someone sells them locally at a fair price.
Here's the artist stitching all 15 of them together. Note how each of the two-color gods share one color with their neighbors.
Amazing art, just why did they mess up the color wheel?
Also makes you wonder from a physics angle, with Theros itself being "flat," what else lies in their cosmos or general celestial neighbourhood.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I received an email from Original Magic Art, and you can get a playmat of that. However, that email said that Jason Engle had originally drawn this sky view as a single art piece, so no stitching.
I suppose if Wizards returns to Theros one more time, they can fill out this sky view with all the gods. Then, it would not look lopsided with Klothys not having a demigod.
Modern: B 8RACK B
EDH: BRU Mishra, Artificer Prodigy BRU, W Kemba, Kha Regent W, B Ghoulcaller Gisa B, BU Oona, Queen of the Fae BU, G Seton, Krosan Protector G, BW Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim BW, R Purphoros, God of the Forge R, UGW Arcades, the Strategist UGW, GW Karametra, God of Harvests GW, GU Edric, Spymaster of Trest GU, UW Grand Arbiter Augustin IV UW, BRW Kaalia of the Vast BRW, BRU Nekusar, the Mindrazer BRU, BGWU Thrasios, Triton Hero/Tymna the Weaver BGWU