I think to really assess this, we need to look at how many cards with cycling we expect to have in the graveyard by the time we'd want to cast this. In limited, probably 3 or 4 which makes this a variable Lightning Helix for twice the price (but the potential to be bigger late game). In a dedicated cycling deck? I think it's not unreasonable to have 4-6 cards with cycling in the graveyard by turn five-ish - with the upper limit achieved most consistently in a Gavi deck which will be able to dump an extra card with cycling each turn on turns four and five (if not turn three as well with sufficient ramp).
So it's useful in limited if you're already in those colors and already have a decent number of cards with cycling (6 or more, probably, but the format will make that clear pretty quickly), and potentially worth the cut in a dedicated cycling deck where it can be crushing under the right circumstances. I think if it cost one less it would be a standout in competitive, but I understand why it costs four given its upper limit in some decks will be 10+ for an over 20 point swing if you go to the dome. It's just those scenarios will be challenging to create.
What a silly way to schedule your spoilers, WotC. Here's all the decks! Oh except this one card that isn't even that spectacular. You gotta wait for that one. Could have easily switch Ole' Greg's spoiler with someone who spoiled on Friday. A minor thing but still.
The card itself, like I said it's not spectacular. It'll be fine in Limited. In the commander deck it'll get pulled for more consistent, cheaper removal spells. A solid "Yeah sure" rating for this.
This....is a hard card to evaluate. It has the potential to be really amazing, is a finisher and a way to keep you in the game. It's hard to get full value on turn 4 unless we get more 1 mana cyclers
Hmmm, could it not just have been "number of instants" at that price tag? Would definitely have been a great tool for Sunforger that way.
Would have made it better, and leaned into an area of RW I think could get more focus: combat tricks. But that change would make it not fit within the set's mechanics so that'd be a no go.
Nice to see you taking a break to comment on a card, my friend.
Hmmm, could it not just have been "number of instants" at that price tag? Would definitely have been a great tool for Sunforger that way.
Would have made it better, and leaned into an area of RW I think could get more focus: combat tricks. But that change would make it not fit within the set's mechanics so that'd be a no go.
Nice to see you taking a break to comment on a card, my friend.
There just haven't been enough interesting cards spoiled today that were worth discussing! The release of a new Hearthstone set today has also been more than a little distracting...
Honestly, WR probably has enough combat tricks, for what those are actually worth in EDH. I was thinking more along the lines of a competent win-con, which Boros is still sorely lacking. Sunforger + Mistveil Plains isn't exactly novel tech, but it also hasn't really been much of a game winning combo either.
There just haven't been enough cards spoiled today that were worth discussing! The release of a new Hearthstone set today has also been more than a little distracting...
Haha I'm teasing. We are definitely in the midst of the spoiling of mostly limited commons and uncommons, which tend not to be overly interesting for the most part. At least some of the keywords matters cards have been intriguing, if not wildly impressive.
There just haven't been enough cards spoiled today that were worth discussing! The release of a new Hearthstone set today has also been more than a little distracting...
Haha I'm teasing. We are definitely in the midst of the spoiling of mostly limited commons and uncommons, which tend not to be overly interesting for the most part. At least some of the keywords matters cards have been intriguing, if not wildly impressive.
Ooh, you know what would really sell me on this for a Boros EDH package? Some kind of combat based ramp, but nothing too strong. It would need some kind of self-imposed limitation like, I don't know, bouncing to your hand every turn.
Haha I'm teasing. We are definitely in the midst of the spoiling of mostly limited commons and uncommons, which tend not to be overly interesting for the most part. At least some of the keywords matters cards have been intriguing, if not wildly impressive.
Yeah I'm not sure why, with only 2 days remaining, they don't give us more of the companions or the 3(assuming 15) remaining mythics. Or maybe that rare land cycle that MaRo promised.
There just haven't been enough cards spoiled today that were worth discussing! The release of a new Hearthstone set today has also been more than a little distracting...
Haha I'm teasing. We are definitely in the midst of the spoiling of mostly limited commons and uncommons, which tend not to be overly interesting for the most part. At least some of the keywords matters cards have been intriguing, if not wildly impressive.
Ooh, you know what would really sell me on this for a Boros EDH package? Some kind of combat based ramp, but nothing too strong. It would need some kind of self-imposed limitation like, I don't know, bouncing to your hand every turn.
You ain't ***** for this and I want you to sit and think about your choices.
I don't think RW needs more combat tricks, I think they could just lean into it a little with cards that care when you cast spells during combat. Feeds into caring about instants, Stoneforger, the overlapping combat them of both colors, the noncreature spellslinging they both (kinda, in the case of white) care about, etc. But that's sort of beside the point for Zenith Flare.
Haha I'm teasing. We are definitely in the midst of the spoiling of mostly limited commons and uncommons, which tend not to be overly interesting for the most part. At least some of the keywords matters cards have been intriguing, if not wildly impressive.
Yeah I'm not sure why, with only 2 days remaining, they don't give us more of the companions or the 3(assuming 15) remaining mythics. Or maybe that rare land cycle that MaRo promised.
Yeah, there's always a day or two where there's a big dump of bulk commons and uncommons, but in fairness that doesn't mean they're all bad cards. Just not flashy. Heartless Act is great and in fairness The Ozolith is very interesting. They just get diluted a bit when everything else is largely limited stuff. Good cards for limited and casual, in many cases, but not cards that generate a lot of buzz/discussion.
Its a nice cycling-matters card, very much a brawl or non-singleton format card. For commander its cute, but it takes too much effort to 1-soht a single player with this.
Haha I'm teasing. We are definitely in the midst of the spoiling of mostly limited commons and uncommons, which tend not to be overly interesting for the most part. At least some of the keywords matters cards have been intriguing, if not wildly impressive.
Yeah I'm not sure why, with only 2 days remaining, they don't give us more of the companions or the 3(assuming 15) remaining mythics. Or maybe that rare land cycle that MaRo promised.
We are also missing Narset.
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Hmmm, could it not just have been "number of instants" at that price tag? Would definitely have been a great tool for Sunforger that way.
This card makes you work really hard just to get a Warleader's Helix. They could have tacked cycling onto it as well at least.
I do like that they seem to be making cycling a bit of a theme for RW and printing unprecedentedly cheap cycling costs for these colors at common.
Certainly helps with commander.
Private Mod Note
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Seems to be a real broken spell in something like Living End, that already has 20+ cycling cards.
Hitting for 10+ damage or outright 20 to win the game is pretty brutal.
yeah.... this could end up as a alternate wincon for a deck like that....
still, maybe then, could be waaaaaay too slow to make a difference.
I think you need far more than 20 cycling cards and a ton of self milling for it to be fast enough to act as a wincon.
dunno if it's doable while keeping the deck strong enough to be viable.
Haha I'm teasing. We are definitely in the midst of the spoiling of mostly limited commons and uncommons, which tend not to be overly interesting for the most part. At least some of the keywords matters cards have been intriguing, if not wildly impressive.
Yeah I'm not sure why, with only 2 days remaining, they don't give us more of the companions or the 3(assuming 15) remaining mythics. Or maybe that rare land cycle that MaRo promised.
I know narset is one of the mythics
And I think one of the colorless cards before the egg could be mythic
It’s the one card in the cycling deck and it’s very nice way to hurt someone big time in that deck
So it's useful in limited if you're already in those colors and already have a decent number of cards with cycling (6 or more, probably, but the format will make that clear pretty quickly), and potentially worth the cut in a dedicated cycling deck where it can be crushing under the right circumstances. I think if it cost one less it would be a standout in competitive, but I understand why it costs four given its upper limit in some decks will be 10+ for an over 20 point swing if you go to the dome. It's just those scenarios will be challenging to create.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
The card itself, like I said it's not spectacular. It'll be fine in Limited. In the commander deck it'll get pulled for more consistent, cheaper removal spells. A solid "Yeah sure" rating for this.
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#DefundThePolice
Would have made it better, and leaned into an area of RW I think could get more focus: combat tricks. But that change would make it not fit within the set's mechanics so that'd be a no go.
Nice to see you taking a break to comment on a card, my friend.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
There just haven't been enough interesting cards spoiled today that were worth discussing! The release of a new Hearthstone set today has also been more than a little distracting...
Honestly, WR probably has enough combat tricks, for what those are actually worth in EDH. I was thinking more along the lines of a competent win-con, which Boros is still sorely lacking. Sunforger + Mistveil Plains isn't exactly novel tech, but it also hasn't really been much of a game winning combo either.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Haha I'm teasing. We are definitely in the midst of the spoiling of mostly limited commons and uncommons, which tend not to be overly interesting for the most part. At least some of the keywords matters cards have been intriguing, if not wildly impressive.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Ooh, you know what would really sell me on this for a Boros EDH package? Some kind of combat based ramp, but nothing too strong. It would need some kind of self-imposed limitation like, I don't know, bouncing to your hand every turn.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Yeah I'm not sure why, with only 2 days remaining, they don't give us more of the companions or the 3(assuming 15) remaining mythics. Or maybe that rare land cycle that MaRo promised.
You ain't ***** for this and I want you to sit and think about your choices.
I don't think RW needs more combat tricks, I think they could just lean into it a little with cards that care when you cast spells during combat. Feeds into caring about instants, Stoneforger, the overlapping combat them of both colors, the noncreature spellslinging they both (kinda, in the case of white) care about, etc. But that's sort of beside the point for Zenith Flare.
Yeah, there's always a day or two where there's a big dump of bulk commons and uncommons, but in fairness that doesn't mean they're all bad cards. Just not flashy. Heartless Act is great and in fairness The Ozolith is very interesting. They just get diluted a bit when everything else is largely limited stuff. Good cards for limited and casual, in many cases, but not cards that generate a lot of buzz/discussion.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
We are also missing Narset.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
This card makes you work really hard just to get a Warleader's Helix. They could have tacked cycling onto it as well at least.
I do like that they seem to be making cycling a bit of a theme for RW and printing unprecedentedly cheap cycling costs for these colors at common.
Certainly helps with commander.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Hitting for 10+ damage or outright 20 to win the game is pretty brutal.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
yeah.... this could end up as a alternate wincon for a deck like that....
still, maybe then, could be waaaaaay too slow to make a difference.
I think you need far more than 20 cycling cards and a ton of self milling for it to be fast enough to act as a wincon.
dunno if it's doable while keeping the deck strong enough to be viable.
I know narset is one of the mythics
And I think one of the colorless cards before the egg could be mythic
Nah my guess is Narset then a Boros human legend and a Simic human legend.