This was my point too, it would suck to open a $16 pack and get a $3 rare or mythic. It would also suck even more to buy a $300-$400 box and find out all your rares and mythic amount to about $150-$180.
I mean if you buy a standard box for $110 and you get $60 worth of rares/mythic it already feels pretty bad, but imagine buying something 3 times as much, the feeling should be 3 times as strong. I mean if there is only one $100 card in the set and the rest are $50 or less in value then it'll be hard to justify the price of the box at $300 unless you can get 6 of those $50 cards in the box whether they may be rares/mythics/foils or whatever.
It's like buying a Collector's pack for $20 and when you open it you get $8 worth of cards in value, or even $10, it feels bad.
The thing is, financially and mathematically, this has to happen at least some of the time. If the expected value of the cards in a pack is more than the value of the pack, then retailers are just going to shred the packs and sell the individual cards until the prices go down enough that that's no longer true. Or they will only sell the packs for more than their normal price. So there always has to be a decent amount of cards that are worth less than the price of the pack, in order to make sure the EV doesn't exceed the price. And if you want there to be high value reprints, such as 100 dollar cards, then you need some really bad stinkers to balance it out.
This was my point too, it would suck to open a $16 pack and get a $3 rare or mythic. It would also suck even more to buy a $300-$400 box and find out all your rares and mythic amount to about $150-$180.
I mean if you buy a standard box for $110 and you get $60 worth of rares/mythic it already feels pretty bad, but imagine buying something 3 times as much, the feeling should be 3 times as strong. I mean if there is only one $100 card in the set and the rest are $50 or less in value then it'll be hard to justify the price of the box at $300 unless you can get 6 of those $50 cards in the box whether they may be rares/mythics/foils or whatever.
It's like buying a Collector's pack for $20 and when you open it you get $8 worth of cards in value, or even $10, it feels bad.
The thing is, financially and mathematically, this has to happen at least some of the time. If the expected value of the cards in a pack is more than the value of the pack, then retailers are just going to shred the packs and sell the individual cards until the prices go down enough that that's no longer true. Or they will only sell the packs for more than their normal price. So there always has to be a decent amount of cards that are worth less than the price of the pack, in order to make sure the EV doesn't exceed the price. And if you want there to be high value reprints, such as 100 dollar cards, then you need some really bad stinkers to balance it out.
yeah but at the same time i think the whole point in having an msrp is to help control that. if the suggest retail is $3.00, and that lgs is charging $10, you can easily go somewhere else thanks to the internet that is charging the $3.00. they did away with msrp, and now a hell of a lot of stores either go off tcg player, or whatever other retailers are charging. this means that if the majority of retailers are charging $10 instead of $3, the price gets bumped up and its a lot more difficult to find it at a lower price. further, i'd argue that the continued, and even increased popularity of buying at big box stores instead of your lgs proves this as they're far more beholden to a universal price among their stores.
This was my point too, it would suck to open a $16 pack and get a $3 rare or mythic. It would also suck even more to buy a $300-$400 box and find out all your rares and mythic amount to about $150-$180.
I mean if you buy a standard box for $110 and you get $60 worth of rares/mythic it already feels pretty bad, but imagine buying something 3 times as much, the feeling should be 3 times as strong. I mean if there is only one $100 card in the set and the rest are $50 or less in value then it'll be hard to justify the price of the box at $300 unless you can get 6 of those $50 cards in the box whether they may be rares/mythics/foils or whatever.
It's like buying a Collector's pack for $20 and when you open it you get $8 worth of cards in value, or even $10, it feels bad.
The thing is, financially and mathematically, this has to happen at least some of the time. If the expected value of the cards in a pack is more than the value of the pack, then retailers are just going to shred the packs and sell the individual cards until the prices go down enough that that's no longer true. Or they will only sell the packs for more than their normal price. So there always has to be a decent amount of cards that are worth less than the price of the pack, in order to make sure the EV doesn't exceed the price. And if you want there to be high value reprints, such as 100 dollar cards, then you need some really bad stinkers to balance it out.
yeah but at the same time i think the whole point in having an msrp is to help control that. if the suggest retail is $3.00, and that lgs is charging $10, you can easily go somewhere else thanks to the internet that is charging the $3.00. they did away with msrp, and now a hell of a lot of stores either go off tcg player, or whatever other retailers are charging. this means that if the majority of retailers are charging $10 instead of $3, the price gets bumped up and its a lot more difficult to find it at a lower price. further, i'd argue that the continued, and even increased popularity of buying at big box stores instead of your lgs proves this as they're far more beholden to a universal price among their stores.
I have never really bought into this argument.
Remember the old Rats' Nest Precon Deck from Betrayers of Kamigawa? The one with an MSRP around $20 that happened to include a $20 card (according to MTGgoldfish price history, that price was pretty constant right out of the gate)? Finding that deck for its MSRP (at least in my experience and those of my friends) was all but impossible back then as selling it for that value was tantamount to throwing away free money. The thought that someone online will have it for cheaper doesn't really work so well when the people online can reliably tear up the product and make a profit on the content.
It's as Wallycaine says. If a product can statistically expected to turn a profit (especially on a per-pack basis), sellers have no incentive to sell sealed product instead of cracking and selling and supplies of the product (especially of a limited-run product) that couldn't be cracked and sold in this way (Wallmart doesn't sell singles, for example) will naturally be funneled away from most players and toward scalpers looking to do the same thing. I'll admit that there are a few exceptions (such as people who are close friends of their LGS' owner or people who reflexively pre-order) but having this sort of EV+ product would not work in the way most people want it to.
This was my point too, it would suck to open a $16 pack and get a $3 rare or mythic. It would also suck even more to buy a $300-$400 box and find out all your rares and mythic amount to about $150-$180.
I mean if you buy a standard box for $110 and you get $60 worth of rares/mythic it already feels pretty bad, but imagine buying something 3 times as much, the feeling should be 3 times as strong. I mean if there is only one $100 card in the set and the rest are $50 or less in value then it'll be hard to justify the price of the box at $300 unless you can get 6 of those $50 cards in the box whether they may be rares/mythics/foils or whatever.
It's like buying a Collector's pack for $20 and when you open it you get $8 worth of cards in value, or even $10, it feels bad.
The thing is, financially and mathematically, this has to happen at least some of the time. If the expected value of the cards in a pack is more than the value of the pack, then retailers are just going to shred the packs and sell the individual cards until the prices go down enough that that's no longer true. Or they will only sell the packs for more than their normal price. So there always has to be a decent amount of cards that are worth less than the price of the pack, in order to make sure the EV doesn't exceed the price. And if you want there to be high value reprints, such as 100 dollar cards, then you need some really bad stinkers to balance it out.
yeah but at the same time i think the whole point in having an msrp is to help control that. if the suggest retail is $3.00, and that lgs is charging $10, you can easily go somewhere else thanks to the internet that is charging the $3.00. they did away with msrp, and now a hell of a lot of stores either go off tcg player, or whatever other retailers are charging. this means that if the majority of retailers are charging $10 instead of $3, the price gets bumped up and its a lot more difficult to find it at a lower price. further, i'd argue that the continued, and even increased popularity of buying at big box stores instead of your lgs proves this as they're far more beholden to a universal price among their stores.
I have never really bought into this argument.
Remember the old Rats' Nest Precon Deck from Betrayers of Kamigawa? The one with an MSRP around $20 that happened to include a $20 card (according to MTGgoldfish price history, that price was pretty constant right out of the gate)? Finding that deck for its MSRP (at least in my experience and those of my friends) was all but impossible back then as selling it for that value was tantamount to throwing away free money. The thought that someone online will have it for cheaper doesn't really work so well when the people online can reliably tear up the product and make a profit on the content.
It was actually the offline people that had it for MSRP because they wouldn't check online to see that it was worth more than its MSRP. I personally bought at least 10 of those decks from Gamestops in my area because Gamestop wasn't a card shop so they didn't realize they were underselling the item.
Still, that wasn't because of MSRP that was because information was less spread out and the large store didn't care about this niche product. Only large stores cared about MSRP because they didn't actually care what the product was worth they just bought and sold it. The idea that by removing the MSRP they are causing more price gouging is foolish. The large stores still sell at the "Totally not MSRP" regardless of actual value while the specialty stores still sell at "True Value".
This was my point too, it would suck to open a $16 pack and get a $3 rare or mythic. It would also suck even more to buy a $300-$400 box and find out all your rares and mythic amount to about $150-$180.
I mean if you buy a standard box for $110 and you get $60 worth of rares/mythic it already feels pretty bad, but imagine buying something 3 times as much, the feeling should be 3 times as strong. I mean if there is only one $100 card in the set and the rest are $50 or less in value then it'll be hard to justify the price of the box at $300 unless you can get 6 of those $50 cards in the box whether they may be rares/mythics/foils or whatever.
It's like buying a Collector's pack for $20 and when you open it you get $8 worth of cards in value, or even $10, it feels bad.
As someone who bought an Iconic Masters pack and pulled Channel, let me tell you - it sucks.
This was my point too, it would suck to open a $16 pack and get a $3 rare or mythic. It would also suck even more to buy a $300-$400 box and find out all your rares and mythic amount to about $150-$180.
I mean if you buy a standard box for $110 and you get $60 worth of rares/mythic it already feels pretty bad, but imagine buying something 3 times as much, the feeling should be 3 times as strong. I mean if there is only one $100 card in the set and the rest are $50 or less in value then it'll be hard to justify the price of the box at $300 unless you can get 6 of those $50 cards in the box whether they may be rares/mythics/foils or whatever.
It's like buying a Collector's pack for $20 and when you open it you get $8 worth of cards in value, or even $10, it feels bad.
As someone who bought an Iconic Masters pack and pulled Channel, let me tell you - it sucks.
Just want to point out that you can do so much worse. Go check out Alpha Investments opening videos. Recently there's one where someone threw money in the trash by buying a box. That product was such a joke AND a rip off at the same time.
This was my point too, it would suck to open a $16 pack and get a $3 rare or mythic. It would also suck even more to buy a $300-$400 box and find out all your rares and mythic amount to about $150-$180.
I mean if you buy a standard box for $110 and you get $60 worth of rares/mythic it already feels pretty bad, but imagine buying something 3 times as much, the feeling should be 3 times as strong. I mean if there is only one $100 card in the set and the rest are $50 or less in value then it'll be hard to justify the price of the box at $300 unless you can get 6 of those $50 cards in the box whether they may be rares/mythics/foils or whatever.
It's like buying a Collector's pack for $20 and when you open it you get $8 worth of cards in value, or even $10, it feels bad.
As someone who bought an Iconic Masters pack and pulled Channel, let me tell you - it sucks.
Just want to point out that you can do so much worse. Go check out Alpha Investments opening videos. Recently there's one where someone threw money in the trash by buying a box. That product was such a joke AND a rip off at the same time.
Is it M25? Where opening two boxes all the rares/mythics we're exactly the same but 1 pack in each
This was my point too, it would suck to open a $16 pack and get a $3 rare or mythic. It would also suck even more to buy a $300-$400 box and find out all your rares and mythic amount to about $150-$180.
I mean if you buy a standard box for $110 and you get $60 worth of rares/mythic it already feels pretty bad, but imagine buying something 3 times as much, the feeling should be 3 times as strong. I mean if there is only one $100 card in the set and the rest are $50 or less in value then it'll be hard to justify the price of the box at $300 unless you can get 6 of those $50 cards in the box whether they may be rares/mythics/foils or whatever.
It's like buying a Collector's pack for $20 and when you open it you get $8 worth of cards in value, or even $10, it feels bad.
As someone who bought an Iconic Masters pack and pulled Channel, let me tell you - it sucks.
Just want to point out that you can do so much worse. Go check out Alpha Investments opening videos. Recently there's one where someone threw money in the trash by buying a box. That product was such a joke AND a rip off at the same time.
In terms of just playing the 10 dollar lotto and buying a single pack, I cannot think of a worse feels bad moment than opening a MYTHIC that is only worth 58 cents AND is banned/restricted in every format. It is absolutely terrible. Channel should never have been printed in the set, especially not as a Mythic. From my perspective, it would have felt better to crack a pack and open a 20 cent rare that I might be able to slam into a budget commander deck than it was to open an absolutely useless piece of cardboard.
But yes, Iconic Masters was a terrible set, especially when you compare it to A25 and Mystery Boosters. I 100% feel awful for anyone who spent hard-earned money to buy a box of Iconic Masters, especially at the inflated costs when the set first came out.
This was my point too, it would suck to open a $16 pack and get a $3 rare or mythic. It would also suck even more to buy a $300-$400 box and find out all your rares and mythic amount to about $150-$180.
I mean if you buy a standard box for $110 and you get $60 worth of rares/mythic it already feels pretty bad, but imagine buying something 3 times as much, the feeling should be 3 times as strong. I mean if there is only one $100 card in the set and the rest are $50 or less in value then it'll be hard to justify the price of the box at $300 unless you can get 6 of those $50 cards in the box whether they may be rares/mythics/foils or whatever.
It's like buying a Collector's pack for $20 and when you open it you get $8 worth of cards in value, or even $10, it feels bad.
As someone who bought an Iconic Masters pack and pulled Channel, let me tell you - it sucks.
Just want to point out that you can do so much worse. Go check out Alpha Investments opening videos. Recently there's one where someone threw money in the trash by buying a box. That product was such a joke AND a rip off at the same time.
In terms of just playing the 10 dollar lotto and buying a single pack, I cannot think of a worse feels bad moment than opening a MYTHIC that is only worth 58 cents AND is banned/restricted in every format. It is absolutely terrible. Channel should never have been printed in the set, especially not as a Mythic. From my perspective, it would have felt better to crack a pack and open a 20 cent rare that I might be able to slam into a budget commander deck than it was to open an absolutely useless piece of cardboard.
But yes, Iconic Masters was a terrible set, especially when you compare it to A25 and Mystery Boosters. I 100% feel awful for anyone who spent hard-earned money to buy a box of Iconic Masters, especially at the inflated costs when the set first came out.
At least is cheapened several of the good ones from those in singles
I finally got all 5 praetors and spirit dragons (with better art by the way) at a decent price
plus the dragons spiked since commander finally allowed the rule of death/leave triggers from commanders work now
Whats the point of making a product that has double the cards if its ALSO going to cost double the prize...
Or like 5 times the price... lol
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
yeah but at the same time i think the whole point in having an msrp is to help control that. if the suggest retail is $3.00, and that lgs is charging $10, you can easily go somewhere else thanks to the internet that is charging the $3.00. they did away with msrp, and now a hell of a lot of stores either go off tcg player, or whatever other retailers are charging. this means that if the majority of retailers are charging $10 instead of $3, the price gets bumped up and its a lot more difficult to find it at a lower price. further, i'd argue that the continued, and even increased popularity of buying at big box stores instead of your lgs proves this as they're far more beholden to a universal price among their stores.
I have never really bought into this argument.
Remember the old Rats' Nest Precon Deck from Betrayers of Kamigawa? The one with an MSRP around $20 that happened to include a $20 card (according to MTGgoldfish price history, that price was pretty constant right out of the gate)? Finding that deck for its MSRP (at least in my experience and those of my friends) was all but impossible back then as selling it for that value was tantamount to throwing away free money. The thought that someone online will have it for cheaper doesn't really work so well when the people online can reliably tear up the product and make a profit on the content.
It's as Wallycaine says. If a product can statistically expected to turn a profit (especially on a per-pack basis), sellers have no incentive to sell sealed product instead of cracking and selling and supplies of the product (especially of a limited-run product) that couldn't be cracked and sold in this way (Wallmart doesn't sell singles, for example) will naturally be funneled away from most players and toward scalpers looking to do the same thing. I'll admit that there are a few exceptions (such as people who are close friends of their LGS' owner or people who reflexively pre-order) but having this sort of EV+ product would not work in the way most people want it to.
Still, that wasn't because of MSRP that was because information was less spread out and the large store didn't care about this niche product. Only large stores cared about MSRP because they didn't actually care what the product was worth they just bought and sold it. The idea that by removing the MSRP they are causing more price gouging is foolish. The large stores still sell at the "Totally not MSRP" regardless of actual value while the specialty stores still sell at "True Value".
As someone who bought an Iconic Masters pack and pulled Channel, let me tell you - it sucks.
Just want to point out that you can do so much worse. Go check out Alpha Investments opening videos. Recently there's one where someone threw money in the trash by buying a box. That product was such a joke AND a rip off at the same time.
Is it M25? Where opening two boxes all the rares/mythics we're exactly the same but 1 pack in each
In terms of just playing the 10 dollar lotto and buying a single pack, I cannot think of a worse feels bad moment than opening a MYTHIC that is only worth 58 cents AND is banned/restricted in every format. It is absolutely terrible. Channel should never have been printed in the set, especially not as a Mythic. From my perspective, it would have felt better to crack a pack and open a 20 cent rare that I might be able to slam into a budget commander deck than it was to open an absolutely useless piece of cardboard.
But yes, Iconic Masters was a terrible set, especially when you compare it to A25 and Mystery Boosters. I 100% feel awful for anyone who spent hard-earned money to buy a box of Iconic Masters, especially at the inflated costs when the set first came out.
At least is cheapened several of the good ones from those in singles
I finally got all 5 praetors and spirit dragons (with better art by the way) at a decent price
plus the dragons spiked since commander finally allowed the rule of death/leave triggers from commanders work now
Box will contain 4 boosters of 33 cards :
• 9 foil commons
• 8 foil uncos
• 2 foil rare or mythic
• 2 foil box toppers
• 12 full art basic lands, including two foil basics
• 2 foil tokens
This comes from a french shop who seems to have put a bit too early the product on preorder :
https://www.magicbazar.fr/produit/295431-boite_de_4_boosters_vip_edition_double_masters_-_magic_en
Price is...well. Crazy as expected (400€ for 4 boosters). They also put the Double Masters regular boxes for less than 300€ on pre-order.
That feels really underwhelming...maybe those lands will be super sick...
Or like 5 times the price... lol
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se8sBLlAVJE
Karn Liberated
Force of will
Jace, the mindsculptor
Tron-lands
Thoughtseize
Mox opal
These have been known since May
It's from the Historian, so of course he's reporting on old news.
To be fair, the video seemed mostly just talking about the cards and their significance, rather than presenting them as big new reprints/news.
Of course it's old news. It's the Historian.
History Channel. It's the news. Only told much later.