And there will most likely be more Eldrazi on some plane in the future. They did very conspicuously *not* kill off Emrakul,
With Emrakul trapped but not destroyed, it lets her influence be felt, but only subtly and mysteriously. Many-tentacled things roam a pitch-dark forest. A glob of flesh that was once an entire village swims in the abyssal depths. Masked cultists hail these abominations as gods.
And there will most likely be more Eldrazi on some plane in the future. They did very conspicuously *not* kill off Emrakul,
With Emrakul trapped but not destroyed, it lets her influence be felt, but only subtly and mysteriously. Many-tentacled things roam a pitch-dark forest. A glob of flesh that was once an entire village swims in the abyssal depths. Masked cultists hail these abominations as gods.
The Eldrazi have found their true home.
This too. While I’m not a fan of them on Innistrad the Eldrazi benefit from being there more than Zendikar.
And again feeling their influence doesn’t require them to be on cards. If the entire world makes zero mention of them that I would agree is an issue. But we already have art of an angel using... I want to call it bismuth but I’m not sure that’s right, mind is drawing a blank. I’m sure there will be many more such references of how Zendikar responds now that they’re gone, and what all that means for the plane. It’s much like how Amonkhet will still have a very palpable Bolas influence even though he’s locked away, or any number of other plane changing events.
So question? Was having no Phyrexia creatures mean they eased the history of Phyrexia on Dominaria? How about not having any snow related cards, does that mean they forgot the ice age?
For them being alive, at the time creative left themselves wiggle room. The minor spawn are tied to the titans they outright said the spawn would either die off or become inert. There could be eldrazi alive in small numbers, but like slivers in Dominara, we just won't see them on card. But more likely that in the 3 or so years since BtZ the eldrzi grew so weak it was easy to kill them off.
And finally it amazes me that no other site can start arguments over something we haven't seen. Maybe wait and see Zendiakr 3 looks like before complains they eased the eldrazi or the worlds don't evolve.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
And finally it amazes me that no other site can start arguments over something we haven't seen.
Hi. I'm the Internet. I'm about 35 years old. Have we met?
True I guess I need to be clarify;
And finally it amazes me that no other magic fandom site I frequent can start arguments over sets we haven't seen much of.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
So question? Was having no Phyrexia creatures mean they eased the history of Phyrexia on Dominaria? How about not having any snow related cards, does that mean they forgot the ice age?
For them being alive, at the time creative left themselves wiggle room. The minor spawn are tied to the titans they outright said the spawn would either die off or become inert. There could be eldrazi alive in small numbers, but like slivers in Dominara, we just won't see them on card. But more likely that in the 3 or so years since BtZ the eldrzi grew so weak it was easy to kill them off.
And finally it amazes me that no other site can start arguments over something we haven't seen. Maybe wait and see Zendiakr 3 looks like before complains they eased the eldrazi or the worlds don't evolve.
I mean, we haven't seen much, but MaRo has already made it pretty clear there won't be any Eldrazi. He's said this will be a return to original Zendikar 'without the Eldrazi'. I don't believe we've gotten any explicit confirmation that there will be no Eldrazi on cards or no Eldrazi on plane, but it's a pretty safe assumption. Meanwhile, we also know that there will be reference to the *aftermath* of the Eldrazi.
So we haven't seen the details, but we have a pretty decent idea of what to expect here.
The aftermath Eldrazi will be The First Order to The Empire.
They will look exactly the same, behave exactly the same and provide the exact same kind of threat. But the creators of the content will insist it's completely new.
Yes, Zendikar has been affected by the Eldrazi, but that doesn't make the actual Eldrazi themselves hanging around on the plane part of Zendikar's identity. Not everything that appears on Zendikar is a necessary part of the plane's identity.
What? Everything on Zendikar is part of its identity, that's literally how you identify it. From the way the vampires and goblins look compared to other planes to the hedrons that we've seen for all five sets. This will quite literally be the first time we won't see Eldrazi there, as again we've been seeing them and hints of them since day one of the plane. To say they are not part Zendikar's identity is just false. They were on the plane for thousands of years, affecting those living on the plane in some way and it shaped it so much it's literally how we were introduced to the plane, by showing that they have been affecting it since imprisonment.
I don't know about you, but being on the plane thousands of years and affecting it so much sort of gives the impression they
The Eldrazi don't need to be there.
That's true of anything on Zendikar, from elves to landfall.
Just because the Eldrazi were there once doesn't mean they always need to be there. Things can change. And in fact, they were always going to. The Eldrazi were never going to be on Zendikar forever.
I'm fine with them dwindling and eventually not being there. I'm not arguing against change. I'm arguing against change done poorly. Rey becoming a Palpatine in Star Wars was a dumb unneeded change because some fan boys got upset that their laser samurais were tampered with and weren't 100% the way they thought it should be. In this case them just cleanly going "Oh, this was take the mothership down and they all do" is a cheap way to try and fix some negative reviews rather than showing that yes, Zendikar is healing, but there is still work to be done.
Look, if by some chance the art shows the world is recovering, but you see the scars of the Eldrazi then that's great and it shows a natural progression, but if we go back and it's just *snap* "What're Eldrazi? Nothing happened!" then that's just bad story telling. Remember, BFZ barely happened a few years ago in story time, if that, for the world to be fully recovered would just not believable.
Are the Eldrazi part of Innistrad's identity too now that they showed up there as well? Do we need to see Eldrazi next time we visit Innsitrad as well?
Yes, I do in fact believe we should see them the next time we go there. Many denizens of the plane were mutated and Emrakul is not dead (if that does affect the mutation and/or minions.) Unless there's an eldrazi equivalent of the Cursemute that cures everything before we go back or it's been 20+ years in story time so all of them can be killed then I absolutely think there should be the mutated eldrazi that we saw previously.
Are they part of its identity currently? I don't think so at this time, but if they stick around and continue to affect the story, then yes.
Mirrodin got taken over by the Phyrexians, does that mean Mirrodin could never be rid of the Phyrexians in the future without it betraying Mirrodin's identity?
Here's the problem with that. We've seen Mirrodin without Phyrexia, we know what it's like, but we have not seen Zendikar without the Eldrazi in some way. Also, it's quite likely to never see Mirrodin we knew again if it gets blown up, which is what I expect.
Stop equivocating not including any Eldrazi on cards with ignoring the Eldrazi existed at all. I'm sure you know full well it's entirely possible to avoid the later without doing the former, so stop saying this, because it's dishonest.
Zendikar Rising is very obviously not going to ignore the Eldrazi ever existed, but there won't be any actual Eldrazi.
I don't know, that seems to be exactly what people want and seems to be what you've been arguing for. Every time I argue for even three cards you keep going on about how wrong it would be.
Yes, Zendikar has been affected by the Eldrazi, but that doesn't make the actual Eldrazi themselves hanging around on the plane part of Zendikar's identity. Not everything that appears on Zendikar is a necessary part of the plane's identity.
What? Everything on Zendikar is part of its identity, that's literally how you identify it. From the way the vampires and goblins look compared to other planes to the hedrons that we've seen for all five sets. This will quite literally be the first time we won't see Eldrazi there, as again we've been seeing them and hints of them since day one of the plane. To say they are not part Zendikar's identity is just false. They were on the plane for thousands of years, affecting those living on the plane in some way and it shaped it so much it's literally how we were introduced to the plane, by showing that they have been affecting it since imprisonment.
Some hints to the Eldrazi will be in Zendikar Rising. Zendikar Rising will be very much like original Zendikar set in that regard. Was original Zendikar inconsistent with Zendikar's identity? No? Then Zendikar Rising won't be.
The Eldrazi don't need to be there.
That's true of anything on Zendikar, from elves to landfall.
Not really. Some of the more obscure elements of the world definitely don't need to be there, but things like the elves and the kor do because they're going to be expected to be seen. The same would be true of the Eldrazi, if not for the fact that there is a very good reason why we would not expect them to show up. Nothing inextricably needs to be there, but some things require work to be done to remove them. The work for removing the Eldrazi has already been done.
Just because the Eldrazi were there once doesn't mean they always need to be there. Things can change. And in fact, they were always going to. The Eldrazi were never going to be on Zendikar forever.
I'm fine with them dwindling and eventually not being there. I'm not arguing against change. I'm arguing against change done poorly. Rey becoming a Palpatine in Star Wars was a dumb unneeded change because some fan boys got upset that their laser samurais were tampered with and weren't 100% the way they thought it should be. In this case them just cleanly going "Oh, this was take the mothership down and they all do" is a cheap way to try and fix some negative reviews rather than showing that yes, Zendikar is healing, but there is still work to be done.
The Eldrazi disappearing like that is perfectly sensible and congruent for them. It's not a late addition slapped on contrary to what was previously established. It was established years in advance of this set where the Eldrazi vanish, and not something we are only finding out about now.
I'm pretty sure there will be a clear sense of work to be done in the recovery with this set. It just won't involve any Eldrazi.
Look, if by some chance the art shows the world is recovering, but you see the scars of the Eldrazi then that's great and it shows a natural progression, but if we go back and it's just *snap* "What're Eldrazi? Nothing happened!" then that's just bad story telling. Remember, BFZ barely happened a few years ago in story time, if that, for the world to be fully recovered would just not believable.
We've already seen artworks with ruined hedrons lying around the place and such. There's every indication there will be scars.
Also, seeing the scars of the Eldrazi is different from seeing Eldrazi. Why do you keep switching between the two and blurring the lines? There is no 'ignore the Eldrazi all together' option being advocated in this argument.
Are the Eldrazi part of Innistrad's identity too now that they showed up there as well? Do we need to see Eldrazi next time we visit Innsitrad as well?
Are they part of its identity currently? I don't think so at this time, but if they stick around and continue to affect the story, then yes.
Yes, I do in fact believe we should see them the next time we go there. Many denizens of the plane were mutated and Emrakul is not dead (if that does affect the mutation and/or minions.) Unless there's an eldrazi equivalent of the Cursemute that cures everything before we go back or it's been 20+ years in story time so all of them can be killed then I absolutely think there should be the mutated eldrazi that we saw previously.
Based on what happened on Zendikar when the Eldrazi were originally imprisoned there, we have every reason to believe that Emrakul's imprisonment will cut off the spawn too. And that's not a retcon or a late addition- it fits with what was established about the Eldrazi from the very beginning.
Mirrodin got taken over by the Phyrexians, does that mean Mirrodin could never be rid of the Phyrexians in the future without it betraying Mirrodin's identity?
Here's the problem with that. We've seen Mirrodin without Phyrexia, we know what it's like, but we have not seen Zendikar without the Eldrazi in some way. Also, it's quite likely to never see Mirrodin we knew again if it gets blown up, which is what I expect.
The original Zendikar set only had scattered hints to the Eldrazi. Zendikar Rising will only have scattered hints to the Eldrazi. Again, this is not new. This is a return to how the plane was before.
Stop equivocating not including any Eldrazi on cards with ignoring the Eldrazi existed at all. I'm sure you know full well it's entirely possible to avoid the later without doing the former, so stop saying this, because it's dishonest.
Zendikar Rising is very obviously not going to ignore the Eldrazi ever existed, but there won't be any actual Eldrazi.
I don't know, that seems to be exactly what people want and seems to be what you've been arguing for. Every time I argue for even three cards you keep going on about how wrong it would be.
What on earth are you talking about?
What is 'that' that you think I'm arguing for? Ignoring the Eldrazi existed at all? Because of course I'm not arguing for that. I've said several times that I think that's not what's going to be in Zendikar Rising and that that is good.
What I am arguing is that makes perfect sense for WotC to do a Zendikar set without any Eldrazi on plane or on cards given the story setup of the BFZ, community reaction to BFZ, general opinion about the Eldrazi, and popularity of the Zendikar world in absence of the Eldrazi. I'm not even really arguing that it would be wrong for WotC to not do this and include Eldrazi instead, but that it is unreasonable for people to expect WotC to have done it differently when doing it this way is obviously a very compelling option.
There also is, again, the angel with her spear tipped with bismuth. The Eldrazi will not have any cards. This is consistent with the lore. But the impact they had on the plane will still be felt, still be very present. That’s really all there is to it. Wizards isn’t rewriting history, and everything we’ve seen indicates they’re being consistent. It’s possible these cards are the only Eldrazi references, but that seems unlikely for a number of reasons.
The Hedrons are too much. Again. Just too much in every art always there. I really can't stand them. Mostly because their never ending appearances in the artwork just really turns me off. Yes it's petty but they are the only reason I don't like the Plane.
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Resigned up after getting lost in the Twitch/MTGS whatever crossover
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
With Emrakul trapped but not destroyed, it lets her influence be felt, but only subtly and mysteriously. Many-tentacled things roam a pitch-dark forest. A glob of flesh that was once an entire village swims in the abyssal depths. Masked cultists hail these abominations as gods.
The Eldrazi have found their true home.
This too. While I’m not a fan of them on Innistrad the Eldrazi benefit from being there more than Zendikar.
And again feeling their influence doesn’t require them to be on cards. If the entire world makes zero mention of them that I would agree is an issue. But we already have art of an angel using... I want to call it bismuth but I’m not sure that’s right, mind is drawing a blank. I’m sure there will be many more such references of how Zendikar responds now that they’re gone, and what all that means for the plane. It’s much like how Amonkhet will still have a very palpable Bolas influence even though he’s locked away, or any number of other plane changing events.
For them being alive, at the time creative left themselves wiggle room. The minor spawn are tied to the titans they outright said the spawn would either die off or become inert. There could be eldrazi alive in small numbers, but like slivers in Dominara, we just won't see them on card. But more likely that in the 3 or so years since BtZ the eldrzi grew so weak it was easy to kill them off.
And finally it amazes me that no other site can start arguments over something we haven't seen. Maybe wait and see Zendiakr 3 looks like before complains they eased the eldrazi or the worlds don't evolve.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Hi. I'm the Internet. I'm about 35 years old. Have we met?
True I guess I need to be clarify;
And finally it amazes me that no other magic fandom site I frequent can start arguments over sets we haven't seen much of.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I mean, we haven't seen much, but MaRo has already made it pretty clear there won't be any Eldrazi. He's said this will be a return to original Zendikar 'without the Eldrazi'. I don't believe we've gotten any explicit confirmation that there will be no Eldrazi on cards or no Eldrazi on plane, but it's a pretty safe assumption. Meanwhile, we also know that there will be reference to the *aftermath* of the Eldrazi.
So we haven't seen the details, but we have a pretty decent idea of what to expect here.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
They will look exactly the same, behave exactly the same and provide the exact same kind of threat. But the creators of the content will insist it's completely new.
What? Everything on Zendikar is part of its identity, that's literally how you identify it. From the way the vampires and goblins look compared to other planes to the hedrons that we've seen for all five sets. This will quite literally be the first time we won't see Eldrazi there, as again we've been seeing them and hints of them since day one of the plane. To say they are not part Zendikar's identity is just false. They were on the plane for thousands of years, affecting those living on the plane in some way and it shaped it so much it's literally how we were introduced to the plane, by showing that they have been affecting it since imprisonment.
I don't know about you, but being on the plane thousands of years and affecting it so much sort of gives the impression they
That's true of anything on Zendikar, from elves to landfall.
I'm fine with them dwindling and eventually not being there. I'm not arguing against change. I'm arguing against change done poorly. Rey becoming a Palpatine in Star Wars was a dumb unneeded change because some fan boys got upset that their laser samurais were tampered with and weren't 100% the way they thought it should be. In this case them just cleanly going "Oh, this was take the mothership down and they all do" is a cheap way to try and fix some negative reviews rather than showing that yes, Zendikar is healing, but there is still work to be done.
Look, if by some chance the art shows the world is recovering, but you see the scars of the Eldrazi then that's great and it shows a natural progression, but if we go back and it's just *snap* "What're Eldrazi? Nothing happened!" then that's just bad story telling. Remember, BFZ barely happened a few years ago in story time, if that, for the world to be fully recovered would just not believable.
Yes, I do in fact believe we should see them the next time we go there. Many denizens of the plane were mutated and Emrakul is not dead (if that does affect the mutation and/or minions.) Unless there's an eldrazi equivalent of the Cursemute that cures everything before we go back or it's been 20+ years in story time so all of them can be killed then I absolutely think there should be the mutated eldrazi that we saw previously.
Are they part of its identity currently? I don't think so at this time, but if they stick around and continue to affect the story, then yes.
Here's the problem with that. We've seen Mirrodin without Phyrexia, we know what it's like, but we have not seen Zendikar without the Eldrazi in some way. Also, it's quite likely to never see Mirrodin we knew again if it gets blown up, which is what I expect.
I don't know, that seems to be exactly what people want and seems to be what you've been arguing for. Every time I argue for even three cards you keep going on about how wrong it would be.
Some hints to the Eldrazi will be in Zendikar Rising. Zendikar Rising will be very much like original Zendikar set in that regard. Was original Zendikar inconsistent with Zendikar's identity? No? Then Zendikar Rising won't be.
Not really. Some of the more obscure elements of the world definitely don't need to be there, but things like the elves and the kor do because they're going to be expected to be seen. The same would be true of the Eldrazi, if not for the fact that there is a very good reason why we would not expect them to show up. Nothing inextricably needs to be there, but some things require work to be done to remove them. The work for removing the Eldrazi has already been done.
The Eldrazi disappearing like that is perfectly sensible and congruent for them. It's not a late addition slapped on contrary to what was previously established. It was established years in advance of this set where the Eldrazi vanish, and not something we are only finding out about now.
I'm pretty sure there will be a clear sense of work to be done in the recovery with this set. It just won't involve any Eldrazi.
We've already seen artworks with ruined hedrons lying around the place and such. There's every indication there will be scars.
Also, seeing the scars of the Eldrazi is different from seeing Eldrazi. Why do you keep switching between the two and blurring the lines? There is no 'ignore the Eldrazi all together' option being advocated in this argument.
Based on what happened on Zendikar when the Eldrazi were originally imprisoned there, we have every reason to believe that Emrakul's imprisonment will cut off the spawn too. And that's not a retcon or a late addition- it fits with what was established about the Eldrazi from the very beginning.
The original Zendikar set only had scattered hints to the Eldrazi. Zendikar Rising will only have scattered hints to the Eldrazi. Again, this is not new. This is a return to how the plane was before.
What on earth are you talking about?
What is 'that' that you think I'm arguing for? Ignoring the Eldrazi existed at all? Because of course I'm not arguing for that. I've said several times that I think that's not what's going to be in Zendikar Rising and that that is good.
What I am arguing is that makes perfect sense for WotC to do a Zendikar set without any Eldrazi on plane or on cards given the story setup of the BFZ, community reaction to BFZ, general opinion about the Eldrazi, and popularity of the Zendikar world in absence of the Eldrazi. I'm not even really arguing that it would be wrong for WotC to not do this and include Eldrazi instead, but that it is unreasonable for people to expect WotC to have done it differently when doing it this way is obviously a very compelling option.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
im pretty sure it’s ulamog himself
the shoulder area and the his head resemblance is uncanning
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
I am the tentacle that flaps in the night!