cool... but that they had to ban so much in multiple formats really begs the question just where are design and development falling apart in the communication process
also, its a little irksome that they did nothing regarding brawl. its a format they hyped, and pushed on arena, its very popular there, and yet... they do nothing to take care of it. in particular agent of treachery, it warranted a ban almost everywhere, but here it goes unchecked. i end up packing it in almost any blue deck because all i have to do is resolve it and my opponent instantly scoops. doesn't matter the board state or anything, they just concede. even when they don't, its generally an insurmountable advantage because of the numerous ways it can be blinked or bounced. that's not exactly healthy.
I thought this was supposed to be a huge announcement. Am I missing something?
I believe the original tweet was just to announce the next time we would get an updated list, and then others just assumed it was going to be a huge deal for whatever reason.
These are somehow all things which are pretty okay. Like yeah everything here sounds pretty well reasoned...
The two rotating formats Standard and Brawl, which could really need some banning remain unchanged however. I mean Brawl is better than Standard, but that is such a low bar to clear at the moment that I wonder why anyone still plays it at this point.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
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tbh i dont really care about pauper or historic. pauper is not existent where i live and i dont play arena.
so that leaves modern and pioneer. one ban and one unban.
i am fine with both decisions tbh. but i doubt the oath unban will affect pioneer that much.
i still think both formats still have to many banned cards, but i never saw the data wizards is using to evaluate what needs a ban and what not.
i also understand why there are no bannings in standard. rotation is comming soon and i would also wait to see what changes zendikar will bring to standard.
All of this stuff sorta makes sense but I think the only truly noteworthy one is Astrolabe as needing to ban that card for that specific reason indicates you have a MUCH deeper problem in the format than it appears.
All of this stuff sorta makes sense but I think the only truly noteworthy one is Astrolabe as needing to ban that card for that specific reason indicates you have a MUCH deeper problem in the format than it appears.
There's been a lot of loud vocal complaining about the card. Whether it's too good for the format or not in the end doesn't matter.
I think the Oath of Nissa ban was silly in the first place. It was banned alongside Leyline of Abundance because Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx was too good. Bringing back Oath changes virtually nothing there, though the card might have value elsewhere because it's not totally bad. Anyways reprint Nykthos you cowards.
Historic bans are interesting. They do seem interested in curating the format a bit. But when historic has a large banlist, there's a lot of cards on Arena that become utterly useless. They should allow you to redeem those banned cards for wild cards.
They should allow you to redeem those banned cards for wild cards.
They actually do exactly that, when a card gets banned on Arena they let you keep the card AND give you a wildcard of the same rarity of the banned card for each one (up to 4) in your collection.
They should allow you to redeem those banned cards for wild cards.
They actually do exactly that, when a card gets banned on Arena they let you keep the card AND give you a wildcard of the same rarity of the banned card for each one (up to 4) in your collection.
This is one of the few things they do alright. The only problem is that you get no relief for collateral damage. The banning of Winota gives you your 4 wildcards but what about the cards that are absolutely worthless without them such as angrath's marauders? Especially when it dodged the announced bans people thought it was safe to craft those unplayable cards only to have it struck down out of nowhere.
The only problem is that you get no relief for collateral damage. The banning of Winota gives you your 4 wildcards but what about the cards that are absolutely worthless without them such as angrath's marauders? Especially when it dodged the announced bans people thought it was safe to craft those unplayable cards only to have it struck down out of nowhere.
This is the exact scenario that happened to me. I got my mythic wildcards back from Winota but I'm fresh out of rare wildcards from having crafted the rest of the deck. Cards such as Bonecrusher Giant, Legion Warboss, Fauna Shaman, and the shocklands/checklands are playable enough in a variety of decks, but cards like Haktos the Unscarred and Angrath's Marauders are stone unplayable outside of the deck.
I dont get the astrolabe ban. Admittedly I haven't played in quite some time but aren't there other filter artifacts out there. Is it the one drop, the card draw, or all three that made this too powerful?
Uro is just about the most boring $50 card we’ve ever seen—
he’s basically just a fixed Primeval Titan.
He’s value town, but man, I can’t remember the last time we saw a $50 ramp card
I dont get the astrolabe ban. Admittedly I haven't played in quite some time but aren't there other filter artifacts out there. Is it the one drop, the card draw, or all three that made this too powerful?
It's all three. Prophetic Prism isn't good enough for Modern nowadays, as it costs 1 mana too much despite otherwise doing the same things as Arcum's Astrolabe. Non-cantrip mana colour filters are a waste of Turn 1 and of mana (part of why Rosethorn Acolyte sees no play in Modern, the other part is that the creature half isn't good enough for Modern, either).
I guess Wizards hits the panic button whenever a deck reaches a mere 55% win rate across the non-mirror board. Dang, from tournament results, I thought Modern was safe enough to get an unban this round.
I'm surprised about pioneer. Unbaning Oath is fine but are there no other banlist moves that can help the format? The attendance have been dwindling for quite some time and I doubt that it is just because of lack of big paper tournaments and ability to play it in LGSs.
Are there any other moves planned to support pioneer?
Saying Uro should be banned and Splinter Twin unbanned is the funniest ***** I have ever heard.
Why do you find this funny?
While I do not think Uro should be outright banned it is slowly getting there. The ubiquity of this card means that formats homogenize and diversity decreases. It would not be a problem if the effects it provides allowed for diversity of uses, but they do not and the games involving this card become repetitive. I do not think that is what most players seek when they play this game.
At the same time Twin was unnecessarily banned (or rather it was banned to increase visibility of new cards) and it would be perfectly fine to unban it with current cardpool and meta.
Why do you find this funny?
While I do not think Uro should be outright banned it is slowly getting there. The ubiquity of this card means that formats homogenize and diversity decreases. It would not be a problem if the effects it provides allowed for diversity of uses, but they do not and the games involving this card become repetitive. I do not think that is what most players seek when they play this game.
At the same time Twin was unnecessarily banned (or rather it was banned to increase visibility of new cards) and it would be perfectly fine to unban it with current cardpool and meta.
Saying that Uro is not fun to play against and that it homogenizes formats is highlighting the same issues with Twin. Twin wasn't fun to play against for a lot of people, and it homogenized blue decks within modern. If you were in blue at that time, you were playing Twin or merfolk and let's be real about merfolk... Just because you could play Grixis Twin, Jeskai Twin, or UR Twin - doesn't mean blue was diverse. All three decks had very linear play and the play patterns were clones of each other.
Looks pretty homogenized to me. UWx wasn't even really on the metagame radar at the time and it took Teferi's to bring that deck into the fold. Sure, you might argue that the viability of UW in today's modern may allow for a less homogenized format, but I don't see that happening at all. i just see Jeskai Twin running the format because another problem with Twin is that it couldn't realistically be hated out by other decks at any significant rate.
So what makes the call for Uro being tied up with a call for unbanning twin so funny, is that they both present very similar issues except 1: Uro decks can be hated out at a much more acceptable rate than Twin.
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Saying that Uro is not fun to play against and that it homogenizes formats is highlighting the same issues with Twin. Twin wasn't fun to play against for a lot of people, and it homogenized blue decks within modern. If you were in blue at that time, you were playing Twin or merfolk and let's be real about merfolk... Just because you could play Grixis Twin, Jeskai Twin, or UR Twin - doesn't mean blue was diverse. All three decks had very linear play and the play patterns were clones of each other.
Looks pretty homogenized to me. UWx wasn't even really on the metagame radar at the time and it took Teferi's to bring that deck into the fold. Sure, you might argue that the viability of UW in today's modern may allow for a less homogenized format, but I don't see that happening at all. i just see Jeskai Twin running the format because another problem with Twin is that it couldn't realistically be hated out by other decks at any significant rate.
So what makes the call for Uro being tied up with a call for unbanning twin so funny, is that they both present very similar issues except 1: Uro decks can be hated out at a much more acceptable rate than Twin.
Did...did you make a graph about homogenization and then only show two decks? I'm pretty dang sure there were more than two decks.
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Historic
Agent of Treachery banned (from suspended)
Winota, Joiner of Forces banned (from suspended)
Fires of Invention banned (from suspended)
Nexus of Fate banned
Burning-Tree Emissary suspended
Pioneer
Oath of Nissa Unbanned (are first ever card to be unbanned in pioneer)
Modern
Arcum's Astrolabe banned
Pauper
Expedition Map banned
Mystic Sanctuary banned
You got to be kidding how in world did Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath dodge the ban hammer from all formats
Oh and you guys hope for in an lose's again splinter twin not birthing pod did not get unbanned
also, its a little irksome that they did nothing regarding brawl. its a format they hyped, and pushed on arena, its very popular there, and yet... they do nothing to take care of it. in particular agent of treachery, it warranted a ban almost everywhere, but here it goes unchecked. i end up packing it in almost any blue deck because all i have to do is resolve it and my opponent instantly scoops. doesn't matter the board state or anything, they just concede. even when they don't, its generally an insurmountable advantage because of the numerous ways it can be blinked or bounced. that's not exactly healthy.
I believe the original tweet was just to announce the next time we would get an updated list, and then others just assumed it was going to be a huge deal for whatever reason.
The two rotating formats Standard and Brawl, which could really need some banning remain unchanged however. I mean Brawl is better than Standard, but that is such a low bar to clear at the moment that I wonder why anyone still plays it at this point.
Also unban Splinter Twin you cowards!
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STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
so that leaves modern and pioneer. one ban and one unban.
i am fine with both decisions tbh. but i doubt the oath unban will affect pioneer that much.
i still think both formats still have to many banned cards, but i never saw the data wizards is using to evaluate what needs a ban and what not.
i also understand why there are no bannings in standard. rotation is comming soon and i would also wait to see what changes zendikar will bring to standard.
There's been a lot of loud vocal complaining about the card. Whether it's too good for the format or not in the end doesn't matter.
I think the Oath of Nissa ban was silly in the first place. It was banned alongside Leyline of Abundance because Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx was too good. Bringing back Oath changes virtually nothing there, though the card might have value elsewhere because it's not totally bad. Anyways reprint Nykthos you cowards.
Historic bans are interesting. They do seem interested in curating the format a bit. But when historic has a large banlist, there's a lot of cards on Arena that become utterly useless. They should allow you to redeem those banned cards for wild cards.
They actually do exactly that, when a card gets banned on Arena they let you keep the card AND give you a wildcard of the same rarity of the banned card for each one (up to 4) in your collection.
This is the exact scenario that happened to me. I got my mythic wildcards back from Winota but I'm fresh out of rare wildcards from having crafted the rest of the deck. Cards such as Bonecrusher Giant, Legion Warboss, Fauna Shaman, and the shocklands/checklands are playable enough in a variety of decks, but cards like Haktos the Unscarred and Angrath's Marauders are stone unplayable outside of the deck.
Guess it’s because I *just* bought a full-frame copy,
and for once they didn’t want me to feel like an idiot?
Growth Spiral is already good enough.
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Uro is a powerhouse outside standard too
As a matter of fact Arcum’s Astrolabe is involved of a modern deck involving uro
he’s basically just a fixed Primeval Titan.
He’s value town, but man, I can’t remember the last time we saw a $50 ramp card
Still, glad to have him for Momir Vig!
It's all three. Prophetic Prism isn't good enough for Modern nowadays, as it costs 1 mana too much despite otherwise doing the same things as Arcum's Astrolabe. Non-cantrip mana colour filters are a waste of Turn 1 and of mana (part of why Rosethorn Acolyte sees no play in Modern, the other part is that the creature half isn't good enough for Modern, either).
I guess Wizards hits the panic button whenever a deck reaches a mere 55% win rate across the non-mirror board. Dang, from tournament results, I thought Modern was safe enough to get an unban this round.
Are there any other moves planned to support pioneer?
Why do you find this funny?
While I do not think Uro should be outright banned it is slowly getting there. The ubiquity of this card means that formats homogenize and diversity decreases. It would not be a problem if the effects it provides allowed for diversity of uses, but they do not and the games involving this card become repetitive. I do not think that is what most players seek when they play this game.
At the same time Twin was unnecessarily banned (or rather it was banned to increase visibility of new cards) and it would be perfectly fine to unban it with current cardpool and meta.
Wizards haphazardly creating a nonsense format for no reason other to drive sales with no idea how to balance it?
Nooooooo waaayyyyy
Saying that Uro is not fun to play against and that it homogenizes formats is highlighting the same issues with Twin. Twin wasn't fun to play against for a lot of people, and it homogenized blue decks within modern. If you were in blue at that time, you were playing Twin or merfolk and let's be real about merfolk... Just because you could play Grixis Twin, Jeskai Twin, or UR Twin - doesn't mean blue was diverse. All three decks had very linear play and the play patterns were clones of each other.
Looks pretty homogenized to me. UWx wasn't even really on the metagame radar at the time and it took Teferi's to bring that deck into the fold. Sure, you might argue that the viability of UW in today's modern may allow for a less homogenized format, but I don't see that happening at all. i just see Jeskai Twin running the format because another problem with Twin is that it couldn't realistically be hated out by other decks at any significant rate.
So what makes the call for Uro being tied up with a call for unbanning twin so funny, is that they both present very similar issues except 1: Uro decks can be hated out at a much more acceptable rate than Twin.
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Did...did you make a graph about homogenization and then only show two decks? I'm pretty dang sure there were more than two decks.