STP do do da do do do
STP do do da do do do
STP do do da do do do
STP!
Counterspell do do da do do do
Counterspell do do da do do do
Counterspell do do da do do do
Counterspell!
Lightning Bolt do do da do do do
Lightning Bolt do do da do do do
Lightning Bolt do do da do do do
Lightning Bolt!
This can easily be solved if reliable answers from days of yore were reprinted with earnest. Remember M11 standard? Bolt was there. Were there any out-of-control decks at the time? Not that I can recall. At least they brought Disenchant back over Naturalize...
This is also a telling sign of the neglect WotC has put into the designing of standard-level sets and focusing too much on auxiliary products. But that's the result of having so many formats that require product support. They reap what they sow...
'buster
yeah, good answers would help.... but not really.
the main issue with today's threats is that even when responded, they give immediate value.
you play Uro, they STP it, you´re up one card, 9 life and ramped 1 mana.
if all threats give extra value, then responses that trade one for one are not enough in the long run.
that said.... surely having STP/FoW/Lightning bolt would heavily lighthen the issue as you can see by the current state of Legacy not being destroyed by the new threats... lol.
all that said.... I really think that the biggest issue here is actually the cards that give the card advantage.
ban Genesis Ultimatum and Escape to the Wilds and the deck will still be pretty strong, but will be controllable.
Everyone saying that they'll ban Cobra or Omnath is being delusional. Zendikar Rising has just come out and they need to sell product. Uro on the other hand is an easy ban because the hype for Theros Beyond Death has worn off at this point.
Of course their official reason will be that they have "more data" on Uro or something.
STP do do da do do do
STP do do da do do do
STP do do da do do do
STP!
Counterspell do do da do do do
Counterspell do do da do do do
Counterspell do do da do do do
Counterspell!
Lightning Bolt do do da do do do
Lightning Bolt do do da do do do
Lightning Bolt do do da do do do
Lightning Bolt!
This can easily be solved if reliable answers from days of yore were reprinted with earnest. Remember M11 standard? Bolt was there. Were there any out-of-control decks at the time? Not that I can recall. At least they brought Disenchant back over Naturalize...
This is also a telling sign of the neglect WotC has put into the designing of standard-level sets and focusing too much on auxiliary products. But that's the result of having so many formats that require product support. They reap what they sow...
'buster
Prettymuch!
They got a lot of feedback from bad players that they hated having their stuff interacted with, and now all of the threats are completely out of control. Answers have never, EVER ruined a format, and should be leaned upon heavily to regulate them. People like playing with powerful threats, so let them! Just make sure there are efficient answers to those threats at all times.
Honestly, something like '1W Sorcery Exile target creature.' should probably just be evergreen. Not so efficient or flexible that it invalidates archetypes, but strong enough that you can't just jam a threat and expect it to stick around for the rest of the game. No-frills 4-cmc wraths should also be a constant, since the aggro decks nowadays are inarguably fast enough to warrant it.
THIS! This is the exact reason I stopped playing standard nearly 5 years ago and why I have not touched it since. It really does feel like there are just threats and no answers, you just to out threat their threats with more threatening threats. I love EDH for the specific reason I get to have answers in my deck that don't force me to jump through hoops or expend all my resources to fix a problem. Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Wrath of God, Damnation, Counterspell and even some weird niche things like Cannibalize, these are all incredibly healthy cards to include in a format as it forces smart play. I remember having to play along side cards like counterspell in standard and it didn't make me frustrated it made me a better player. It made me learn how to bait the removal and counters, throwing some cards to the wolves to force misplays, and it always felt so rewarding when I got to resolve the real threat after. Adding cards like that to standard is really something the need to be willing to try again.
In what universe? If you build a deck like that, and ever draw that hand, I will personally come to wherever you live, perform complicated acts of awestruck ********, then disembowel myself to escape the world that allowed something like this to occur and validate you.
STP do do da do do do
STP do do da do do do
STP do do da do do do
STP!
Counterspell do do da do do do
Counterspell do do da do do do
Counterspell do do da do do do
Counterspell!
Lightning Bolt do do da do do do
Lightning Bolt do do da do do do
Lightning Bolt do do da do do do
Lightning Bolt!
This can easily be solved if reliable answers from days of yore were reprinted with earnest. Remember M11 standard? Bolt was there. Were there any out-of-control decks at the time? Not that I can recall. At least they brought Disenchant back over Naturalize...
This is also a telling sign of the neglect WotC has put into the designing of standard-level sets and focusing too much on auxiliary products. But that's the result of having so many formats that require product support. They reap what they sow...
'buster
Can't stop singing it. You had me until the last bit.
maybe i am alone with the oppinion, but i think people complain to easy instead of thinking about solutions how to play vs hard decks. to me this is kind of the thrill that comes with magic... "how do i beat this deck"
The problem is "how do I beat deck X" is not really why people enjoy the game. Adapting your list to how the meta is developing is one thing. Totally changing archetype just to counter something because majority of decks simply don't have the tools to fight is another.
The second is sign of unhealth meta for sure and the kind of thing that hurts the game, specially if you are starting.
i dont think this is right.
for example the outcry was loud for oko, but we had an answer in the same set that literally every deck could play in the form of "Sorcerous Spyglass". It was an answer that comes out the turn before oko (or if goose ramped the same turn) and would still be flexible versus other cards/decks if not needed for oko ... did u see this card in any sideboard ? no
i know it is not the super perfect permanently answer it answer people wish for, but what i want to point out is, that it is not like we r not given options to deal with these cards. and in case of oko there were actually plenty. i am just pointed out one option any deck could have played
Honestly, something like '1W Sorcery Exile target creature.' should probably just be evergreen. Not so efficient or flexible that it invalidates archetypes, but strong enough that you can't just jam a threat and expect it to stick around for the rest of the game.
Yes!!! A Declaration in Stone minus the clue tokens. Would be the STP/Path of Standard and Pioneer.
And yes bring back Bolt and maybe Counterspell as well.
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STP do do da do do do
STP do do da do do do
STP do do da do do do
STP!
Counterspell do do da do do do
Counterspell do do da do do do
Counterspell do do da do do do
Counterspell!
Lightning Bolt do do da do do do
Lightning Bolt do do da do do do
Lightning Bolt do do da do do do
Lightning Bolt!
This can easily be solved if reliable answers from days of yore were reprinted with earnest. Remember M11 standard? Bolt was there. Were there any out-of-control decks at the time? Not that I can recall. At least they brought Disenchant back over Naturalize...
This is also a telling sign of the neglect WotC has put into the designing of standard-level sets and focusing too much on auxiliary products. But that's the result of having so many formats that require product support. They reap what they sow...
'buster
Prettymuch!
They got a lot of feedback from bad players that they hated having their stuff interacted with, and now all of the threats are completely out of control. Answers have never, EVER ruined a format, and should be leaned upon heavily to regulate them. People like playing with powerful threats, so let them! Just make sure there are efficient answers to those threats at all times.
Honestly, something like '1W Sorcery Exile target creature.' should probably just be evergreen. Not so efficient or flexible that it invalidates archetypes, but strong enough that you can't just jam a threat and expect it to stick around for the rest of the game. No-frills 4-cmc wraths should also be a constant, since the aggro decks nowadays are inarguably fast enough to warrant it.
well, yeah, good answers DO ruin formats.
make answers too good and then the format becomes a control fest and no one plays big threats anymore because they will pay 5 mana for their card just for it to be dealt with a 2 mana spell before they untap with it in play and net any value out of it.
awesome answers will warp the entire format around them, pretty much like Force of Will does with eternal formats.
in legacy over half of the competitive decks are running 4 FoWs, so unless you have pretty big reasons (or awesome ways to protect them) that puts every larger threat in check.....
having your 5 drop countered by a "free" FoW in legacy without netting any value out of it regularly means defeat because you pretty much will have lost both your biggest threat and an entire turn.
that said.... I still think is a lot better to have awesome answers putting every big threat on check than letting threats run rampant because no one can answer them properly.
hell, at this day and age, a TON of matches are simply decided by the coin flip that decides who goes first.
a ton of decks wouldn´t have a proper answer that doesns't cost their entire turn for a turn 2 Lotus Cobra while on the draw, thus having no way to deal with said cobra before the dude on "play" untaps with it and does silly things.
well, I do think better answers are needed for standard if they're going to keep printing this absurd threat power level, but this have to be done carefully to put the threats in check and not simply make them unplayable because none of them will stay a single turn on the battlefield.
Good removal incentivizes ETB/Death effects and creates a situation where any creature that dies to removal without benefiting you has no place... which is already kind of true most of the time.
What I would love to see, though, if only for the relative novelty, is a standard format where the removal is good but EVERYTHING “dies to removal”. No usable indestructible or hexproof on a stick, no good ETB/Death triggers, no good self-reanimating, no resilient control finishers. Everyone is forced to win by playing more threats than the opponent plays answers.
That last part is pretty much limited, where you play more creatures than the opp has removal.
...I guess? I want to see a standard where the answers are good enough that the metagame would normally be warped toward control... except that control lacks the quality of finishers needed to actually pull off their typical low-creature builds. I want to see where the equilibrium ends up going.
well, yeah, good answers DO ruin formats.
make answers too good and then the format becomes a control fest and no one plays big threats anymore because they will pay 5 mana for their card just for it to be dealt with a 2 mana spell before they untap with it in play and net any value out of it.
awesome answers will warp the entire format around them, pretty much like Force of Will does with eternal formats.
in legacy over half of the competitive decks are running 4 FoWs, so unless you have pretty big reasons (or awesome ways to protect them) that puts every larger threat in check.....
having your 5 drop countered by a "free" FoW in legacy without netting any value out of it regularly means defeat because you pretty much will have lost both your biggest threat and an entire turn.
I highly disagree with this assessment. Do you believe that Legacy is a "ruined" format because a lot of decks run Force of Will? If anything, Force acts as a safety net that keeps the format in check. Legacy is a format where many threats don't take the form of beefy creatures; they take the form of a reanimation spell targeting Griselbrand, or a game-winning Doomsday pile, or a critical mass of spells that finish with a tutor or wish for Tendrils of Agony. If Force didn't exist, the format would most assuredly consist nearly entirely of turn 1 or 2 combo decks and meta-specific anti-combo decks.
that said.... I still think is a lot better to have awesome answers putting every big threat on check than letting threats run rampant because no one can answer them properly.
hell, at this day and age, a TON of matches are simply decided by the coin flip that decides who goes first.
a ton of decks wouldn´t have a proper answer that doesns't cost their entire turn for a turn 2 Lotus Cobra while on the draw, thus having no way to deal with said cobra before the dude on "play" untaps with it and does silly things.
well, I do think better answers are needed for standard if they're going to keep printing this absurd threat power level, but this have to be done carefully to put the threats in check and not simply make them unplayable because none of them will stay a single turn on the battlefield.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
well, yeah, good answers DO ruin formats.
make answers too good and then the format becomes a control fest and no one plays big threats anymore because they will pay 5 mana for their card just for it to be dealt with a 2 mana spell before they untap with it in play and net any value out of it.
awesome answers will warp the entire format around them, pretty much like Force of Will does with eternal formats.
in legacy over half of the competitive decks are running 4 FoWs, so unless you have pretty big reasons (or awesome ways to protect them) that puts every larger threat in check.....
having your 5 drop countered by a "free" FoW in legacy without netting any value out of it regularly means defeat because you pretty much will have lost both your biggest threat and an entire turn.
I highly disagree with this assessment. Do you believe that Legacy is a "ruined" format because a lot of decks run Force of Will? If anything, Force acts as a safety net that keeps the format in check. Legacy is a format where many threats don't take the form of beefy creatures; they take the form of a reanimation spell targeting Griselbrand, or a game-winning Doomsday pile, or a critical mass of spells that finish with a tutor or wish for Tendrils of Agony. If Force didn't exist, the format would most assuredly consist nearly entirely of turn 1 or 2 combo decks and meta-specific anti-combo decks.
that said.... I still think is a lot better to have awesome answers putting every big threat on check than letting threats run rampant because no one can answer them properly.
hell, at this day and age, a TON of matches are simply decided by the coin flip that decides who goes first.
a ton of decks wouldn´t have a proper answer that doesns't cost their entire turn for a turn 2 Lotus Cobra while on the draw, thus having no way to deal with said cobra before the dude on "play" untaps with it and does silly things.
well, I do think better answers are needed for standard if they're going to keep printing this absurd threat power level, but this have to be done carefully to put the threats in check and not simply make them unplayable because none of them will stay a single turn on the battlefield.
I do agree with all of this, though.
no, I don´t think Legacy is ruined per se, it´s my favorite format in fact.
But a format without the crazy amount of sheer stupidity to choose from that legacy has would simply become a crazy control fest if they printed Swords to Plowshares and Force of Will, put those 2 on standard today, and nothing other than UW control would be viable, end of story, and that would probably be more ruined than the whole Omnath debacle.
A TON of stuff is simply not possible because answers are waaaay too good.
but at the same time Force of Will in legacy is the glue that keeps the format together....
when you´re building a deck, you KNOW that you'll be facing it so you'll have to go a little lightly on silly things that can be dirsupted by it and would be transformed in a blowout.
awesome answers don´t ruin formats but they kidnap it and inviabilize a lot of mana heavy stuff and makes the format heavily geared towards control.
when answers are too good, large threats become inviable.
and a ton of players dislike this.
I think that´s a fact they need to improve answers in standard.
just finding improve by how much is kinda hard.
I'd say they need a mechanic to keep the whole "threats with instant value" in check.
maybe have some kind of removal with like....
sorcery, 2 mana, destroy target creature, if it has an enter the battlefield effect, draw a card.
so you´re not automatically a card behind even if you deal with it
i think there's kind of two things that need to happen really. answers need to be improved a bit, but some of the higher end creatures also need to be toned down a bit.
like uro - it could've been better balanced with a few less and thens, its just so many advantageous things all on one cheap thing. same with like, questing beast, its just ability vomit. it forces those creatures into more competitive roles because they bring so much advantage, and are so hard to deal with, at the same time it diminishes the quality of every other creature around them. why run this other thing if you can run this wall of text that replaces itself, or is a swiss army knife.
there was actually a metric****ton of removal in standard pre-rotation, but a lot of it just wasn't good at dealing with word barf while also being not so efficient
it really just comes down to balance. either they're bothering any more, or they're not listening to the team that's in charge of that, or the team is just bad at it. the systems been very clearly broken for awhile, and honestly its probably because ridiculous bull***** sells packs. when the game is balanced no one really notices the cards as much because everything is pretty fair. i'd actually be interested to see sales vs. attendance data when it comes to balanced standard environments vs. environments like the current one.
Uro would not be as much of a problem if it would not slot in a deck that already is strong.
The amount of strong cards in the UG(b)(r) department is just too much and every card produces the inherent card advantage.
Its the old Jund problem.
If all the cards produce a automatic 2for1 you can just slam them together and win games.
----
Standard especially is a bunch of "theme"-decks that have a handful of pushed cards to make that theme viable.
And then you have the green based play all the good cards decks, which will always be an issue if they are viable.
Its the same problem that all the multicolor sets also have.
When you can build a deck by simply playing all the good cards, everything has to adapt against that deck (so you basically always have some kind of rogue deck that is specifically made to beat the top dog deck).
----
The powerlevel of Uro is something every deck wants and the card is so strong that you want to be able to play it if remotely possible to do so.
And the green manabases allow 3+ color decks to exist so easily, that there is just no reason not to play Uro.
And there is nothing to punish a player for that card either.
Its just never bad, no matter what.
Early on good, late good, hard to kill, its just too much rolled into one card (and cards that are like that always become really problematic).
Also I think the problem is that there's no ingenuity going on. People play decks that are proven and build accordingly to that. Now take YT people like CovertGoBlue who designs these crazy decks no one sees coming and he stomps them to the ground. Why? Because no one has a SB answer or ability to think about threats that they aren't accustomed to. The element of surprise often is the winning factor.
When people step out and create, that's when a format becomes healthy. That being said I miss the days when netdecking wasn't a thing.
Home brewers rise up!
'buster
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'buster
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Good removal incentivizes ETB/Death effects and creates a situation where any creature that dies to removal without benefiting you has no place... which is already kind of true most of the time.
What I would love to see, though, if only for the relative novelty, is a standard format where the removal is good but EVERYTHING “dies to removal”. No usable indestructible or hexproof on a stick, no good ETB/Death triggers, no good self-reanimating, no resilient control finishers. Everyone is forced to win by playing more threats than the opponent plays answers.
That last part is pretty much limited, where you play more creatures than the opp has removal.
...I guess? I want to see a standard where the answers are good enough that the metagame would normally be warped toward control... except that control lacks the quality of finishers needed to actually pull off their typical low-creature builds. I want to see where the equilibrium ends up going.
The tail end of RTR-Theros Standard had a control deck like this, which won by waiting for your opponents to deck themselves as you spammed Elixir of Immortality. Control needs an actual finisher, or it's a grindfest, and that's a different axis of annoying.
This can easily be solved if reliable answers from days of yore were reprinted with earnest. Remember M11 standard? Bolt was there. Were there any out-of-control decks at the time? Not that I can recall. At least they brought Disenchant back over Naturalize...
You're talking about the format that birthed Caw-Blade. No amount of Bolts could stop that.
Bolt was actually quite good against Cawblade. I say this as a Cawblade player at that time. It killed greedy Jaces brainstorming before fatesealing first, and hawks in combat after equipping so you couldn't re-equip. Probably the single best piece of interaction against the deck.
The problem with that format wasn't actually even THAT deck itself, it was actually Valakut which had a 0% winrate against Cawblade but a 100% winrate against the rest of the format, including decks that were really very favored against Cawblade. Players who just wouldn't let go of their big dumb Primeval Titans choked the variety out of standard.
Bringing us back around to the threats being too good argument lol.
and man by the tweet and the fact it’s to be immediately removed from current leagues first time in years we might see a ban as fast as memory jar potentially
and man by the tweet and the fact it’s to be immediately removed from current leagues first time in years we might see a ban as fast as memory jar potentially
In standard, you mean.
Banning Lutri in Commander the day it is spoiled will forever be the fastest ban that any card has or will ever receive.
and man by the tweet and the fact it’s to be immediately removed from current leagues first time in years we might see a ban as fast as memory jar potentially
In standard, you mean.
Banning Lutri in Commander the day it is spoiled will forever be the fastest ban that any card has or will ever receive.
Weirdly I find Omnath (not Uro) to be the actual problem
Yeah omnath needs to go, it can win easily without the opp drawing an uro the whole game. So while uro keeps them alive and helps the deck a lot it can work without it.
But without omnath the deck would cease to exist. It would be just simic again but without nissa it wouldn't be as good.
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Omnath is the glue that holds it together.
Cobra and Uro makes it uncontrolably fast.
the other 2 cards will mostly just warrant you never run out of gas.
I'd bet that without Genesis Ultimatum / Escape to the wilds the deck would be far from uncontrollable.
it would still probably be ramping into Ugin or something like that, but it would be the gold old ramp deck we already have.
I think it's very, very likely that both Uro and Omnath survive the ban and just Genesis/Escape eat it....
that might just be enough to keep the deck in check without inviabilizing all the Uro builds that are there right now.
I also think that they´re leaning heavily towards not banning a mythic from the new set.... So if they can solve the debacle without banning Omnath, they'll do it.
so, yeah....
at this day and age I'm nowhere near trusting WotC's ability of testing stuff, though.....
so, no idea what really they're doing.
and I do think just cutting the crazy explosive card advantage might just be enough.
yeah, good answers would help.... but not really.
the main issue with today's threats is that even when responded, they give immediate value.
you play Uro, they STP it, you´re up one card, 9 life and ramped 1 mana.
if all threats give extra value, then responses that trade one for one are not enough in the long run.
that said.... surely having STP/FoW/Lightning bolt would heavily lighthen the issue as you can see by the current state of Legacy not being destroyed by the new threats... lol.
all that said.... I really think that the biggest issue here is actually the cards that give the card advantage.
ban Genesis Ultimatum and Escape to the Wilds and the deck will still be pretty strong, but will be controllable.
Of course their official reason will be that they have "more data" on Uro or something.
THIS! This is the exact reason I stopped playing standard nearly 5 years ago and why I have not touched it since. It really does feel like there are just threats and no answers, you just to out threat their threats with more threatening threats. I love EDH for the specific reason I get to have answers in my deck that don't force me to jump through hoops or expend all my resources to fix a problem. Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Wrath of God, Damnation, Counterspell and even some weird niche things like Cannibalize, these are all incredibly healthy cards to include in a format as it forces smart play. I remember having to play along side cards like counterspell in standard and it didn't make me frustrated it made me a better player. It made me learn how to bait the removal and counters, throwing some cards to the wolves to force misplays, and it always felt so rewarding when I got to resolve the real threat after. Adding cards like that to standard is really something the need to be willing to try again.
Can't stop singing it. You had me until the last bit.
But I'd still rather just play middle school.
i dont think this is right.
for example the outcry was loud for oko, but we had an answer in the same set that literally every deck could play in the form of "Sorcerous Spyglass". It was an answer that comes out the turn before oko (or if goose ramped the same turn) and would still be flexible versus other cards/decks if not needed for oko ... did u see this card in any sideboard ? no
i know it is not the super perfect permanently answer it answer people wish for, but what i want to point out is, that it is not like we r not given options to deal with these cards. and in case of oko there were actually plenty. i am just pointed out one option any deck could have played
Yes!!! A Declaration in Stone minus the clue tokens. Would be the STP/Path of Standard and Pioneer.
And yes bring back Bolt and maybe Counterspell as well.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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well, yeah, good answers DO ruin formats.
make answers too good and then the format becomes a control fest and no one plays big threats anymore because they will pay 5 mana for their card just for it to be dealt with a 2 mana spell before they untap with it in play and net any value out of it.
awesome answers will warp the entire format around them, pretty much like Force of Will does with eternal formats.
in legacy over half of the competitive decks are running 4 FoWs, so unless you have pretty big reasons (or awesome ways to protect them) that puts every larger threat in check.....
having your 5 drop countered by a "free" FoW in legacy without netting any value out of it regularly means defeat because you pretty much will have lost both your biggest threat and an entire turn.
that said.... I still think is a lot better to have awesome answers putting every big threat on check than letting threats run rampant because no one can answer them properly.
hell, at this day and age, a TON of matches are simply decided by the coin flip that decides who goes first.
a ton of decks wouldn´t have a proper answer that doesns't cost their entire turn for a turn 2 Lotus Cobra while on the draw, thus having no way to deal with said cobra before the dude on "play" untaps with it and does silly things.
well, I do think better answers are needed for standard if they're going to keep printing this absurd threat power level, but this have to be done carefully to put the threats in check and not simply make them unplayable because none of them will stay a single turn on the battlefield.
...I guess? I want to see a standard where the answers are good enough that the metagame would normally be warped toward control... except that control lacks the quality of finishers needed to actually pull off their typical low-creature builds. I want to see where the equilibrium ends up going.
I highly disagree with this assessment. Do you believe that Legacy is a "ruined" format because a lot of decks run Force of Will? If anything, Force acts as a safety net that keeps the format in check. Legacy is a format where many threats don't take the form of beefy creatures; they take the form of a reanimation spell targeting Griselbrand, or a game-winning Doomsday pile, or a critical mass of spells that finish with a tutor or wish for Tendrils of Agony. If Force didn't exist, the format would most assuredly consist nearly entirely of turn 1 or 2 combo decks and meta-specific anti-combo decks.
I do agree with all of this, though.
no, I don´t think Legacy is ruined per se, it´s my favorite format in fact.
But a format without the crazy amount of sheer stupidity to choose from that legacy has would simply become a crazy control fest if they printed Swords to Plowshares and Force of Will, put those 2 on standard today, and nothing other than UW control would be viable, end of story, and that would probably be more ruined than the whole Omnath debacle.
A TON of stuff is simply not possible because answers are waaaay too good.
but at the same time Force of Will in legacy is the glue that keeps the format together....
when you´re building a deck, you KNOW that you'll be facing it so you'll have to go a little lightly on silly things that can be dirsupted by it and would be transformed in a blowout.
awesome answers don´t ruin formats but they kidnap it and inviabilize a lot of mana heavy stuff and makes the format heavily geared towards control.
when answers are too good, large threats become inviable.
and a ton of players dislike this.
I think that´s a fact they need to improve answers in standard.
just finding improve by how much is kinda hard.
I'd say they need a mechanic to keep the whole "threats with instant value" in check.
maybe have some kind of removal with like....
sorcery, 2 mana, destroy target creature, if it has an enter the battlefield effect, draw a card.
so you´re not automatically a card behind even if you deal with it
like uro - it could've been better balanced with a few less and thens, its just so many advantageous things all on one cheap thing. same with like, questing beast, its just ability vomit. it forces those creatures into more competitive roles because they bring so much advantage, and are so hard to deal with, at the same time it diminishes the quality of every other creature around them. why run this other thing if you can run this wall of text that replaces itself, or is a swiss army knife.
there was actually a metric****ton of removal in standard pre-rotation, but a lot of it just wasn't good at dealing with word barf while also being not so efficient
it really just comes down to balance. either they're bothering any more, or they're not listening to the team that's in charge of that, or the team is just bad at it. the systems been very clearly broken for awhile, and honestly its probably because ridiculous bull***** sells packs. when the game is balanced no one really notices the cards as much because everything is pretty fair. i'd actually be interested to see sales vs. attendance data when it comes to balanced standard environments vs. environments like the current one.
The amount of strong cards in the UG(b)(r) department is just too much and every card produces the inherent card advantage.
Its the old Jund problem.
If all the cards produce a automatic 2for1 you can just slam them together and win games.
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Standard especially is a bunch of "theme"-decks that have a handful of pushed cards to make that theme viable.
And then you have the green based play all the good cards decks, which will always be an issue if they are viable.
Its the same problem that all the multicolor sets also have.
When you can build a deck by simply playing all the good cards, everything has to adapt against that deck (so you basically always have some kind of rogue deck that is specifically made to beat the top dog deck).
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The powerlevel of Uro is something every deck wants and the card is so strong that you want to be able to play it if remotely possible to do so.
And the green manabases allow 3+ color decks to exist so easily, that there is just no reason not to play Uro.
And there is nothing to punish a player for that card either.
Its just never bad, no matter what.
Early on good, late good, hard to kill, its just too much rolled into one card (and cards that are like that always become really problematic).
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When people step out and create, that's when a format becomes healthy. That being said I miss the days when netdecking wasn't a thing.
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You're talking about the format that birthed Caw-Blade. No amount of Bolts could stop that.
The problem with that format wasn't actually even THAT deck itself, it was actually Valakut which had a 0% winrate against Cawblade but a 100% winrate against the rest of the format, including decks that were really very favored against Cawblade. Players who just wouldn't let go of their big dumb Primeval Titans choked the variety out of standard.
Bringing us back around to the threats being too good argument lol.
It’s happening tomorrow
and man by the tweet and the fact it’s to be immediately removed from current leagues first time in years we might see a ban as fast as memory jar potentially
In standard, you mean.
Banning Lutri in Commander the day it is spoiled will forever be the fastest ban that any card has or will ever receive.
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Yeah omnath needs to go, it can win easily without the opp drawing an uro the whole game. So while uro keeps them alive and helps the deck a lot it can work without it.
But without omnath the deck would cease to exist. It would be just simic again but without nissa it wouldn't be as good.
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It's not weird at all.
Omnath is really powerful.
but he's just a piece.
it´s the whole Omnath, Locus of Creation + Lotus Cobra + Genesis Ultimatum / Escape to the wilds combination that makes the deck as stupid as it is.
Omnath is the glue that holds it together.
Cobra and Uro makes it uncontrolably fast.
the other 2 cards will mostly just warrant you never run out of gas.
I'd bet that without Genesis Ultimatum / Escape to the wilds the deck would be far from uncontrollable.
it would still probably be ramping into Ugin or something like that, but it would be the gold old ramp deck we already have.
I think it's very, very likely that both Uro and Omnath survive the ban and just Genesis/Escape eat it....
that might just be enough to keep the deck in check without inviabilizing all the Uro builds that are there right now.
I also think that they´re leaning heavily towards not banning a mythic from the new set.... So if they can solve the debacle without banning Omnath, they'll do it.
so, yeah....
at this day and age I'm nowhere near trusting WotC's ability of testing stuff, though.....
so, no idea what really they're doing.
and I do think just cutting the crazy explosive card advantage might just be enough.