I'd like to hear from the one or two posters that said that these cards would see zero play and that they are not strong. Rick is what pushes humans up a notch thanks to him offering so much.
Makes me wonder how prepared the meta was for something like humans to show up and if this is just a fluke though and that if this deck was created just to prove something. Either the cards are garbage and no one needs to worry or they're strong and WotC ****ed the whole thing up once again with a product like this.
They won 5 games 1 time, and only brought Rick in from the side board a single time. None of the games seemed terribly competitive.
I flipped a coin and got 5 heads in a row. Is the coin rigged?
EDIT: It's an event publicized to make people upset over nothing feel validated. Kinda like when a vocal minority creates a whiny echo chamber to do the same thing.
People could belive if you said that Negan, Daryl, and Michone were in sideboard in most of the games the deck had at least 2 Ricks are you saying the guy played most of the games with a 10 or 8 sideboard...
Rick is probably legacy playable in the next weeks we will know for true.
I'm saying that the deck wasn't built to be competitive, that it was made to validate some whiny point, and has done exactly that. I've 5-0'd an FNM with a Chimney pImp in my sideboard. This is the equivalent. So tes, they played 5 games with a reduced sideboard against opponents who didn't seem eager to win. My bad, Rick saw play as a 2 of, and may have impacted the board in a meaningful way once in a game.
Everyone touting it as validation of any point is either incredibly bad at statistics, or being dishonest. How many 5 game legacy events have fired in the same time frame that involved 0 Walking Dead cards? How many have been full of Rick-Human tribal shenaningans? Are we really at the point where 5 games played once almost a week ago is being held as evidence of anything?
I'd like to hear from the one or two posters that said that these cards would see zero play and that they are not strong. Rick is what pushes humans up a notch thanks to him offering so much.
Makes me wonder how prepared the meta was for something like humans to show up and if this is just a fluke though and that if this deck was created just to prove something. Either the cards are garbage and no one needs to worry or they're strong and WotC ****ed the whole thing up once again with a product like this.
They won 5 games 1 time, and only brought Rick in from the side board a single time. None of the games seemed terribly competitive.
I flipped a coin and got 5 heads in a row. Is the coin rigged?
EDIT: It's an event publicized to make people upset over nothing feel validated. Kinda like when a vocal minority creates a whiny echo chamber to do the same thing.
People could belive if you said that Negan, Daryl, and Michone were in sideboard in most of the games the deck had at least 2 Ricks are you saying the guy played most of the games with a 10 or 8 sideboard...
Rick is probably legacy playable in the next weeks we will know for true.
I'm saying that the deck wasn't built to be competitive, that it was made to validate some whiny point, and has done exactly that. I've 5-0'd an FNM with a Chimney pImp in my sideboard. This is the equivalent. So tes, they played 5 games with a reduced sideboard against opponents who didn't seem eager to win. My bad, Rick saw play as a 2 of, and may have impacted the board in a meaningful way once in a game.
Everyone touting it as validation of any point is either incredibly bad at statistics, or being dishonest. How many 5 game legacy events have fired in the same time frame that involved 0 Walking Dead cards? How many have been full of Rick-Human tribal shenaningans? Are we really at the point where 5 games played once almost a week ago is being held as evidence of anything?
my argument isn't so much that its proof, more so that its potential proof. that is to say yes, its one event, but its still a 5-0. will there be more like that? time will tell, but for now there was at least one small event where it was a powerhouse. it could be the start of something, or maybe not.
ultimately, given everything else regarding this product... ANY success with these in a tournament setting means the product was a mistake for two reasons. one that they were strong enough to make any sort of showing, and two that it shows some meta chasers that they're worth picking up because of a future impact. when you throw that in with all the other complaints regarding this product that's a pretty big no-no. the precedent and implications are just too... it means too much to have these be a success from a gameplay and sales standpoint together regarding the future of magic.
these should have been reskins of existing cards, or pure collectors items. that simple.
Yeah I took a look at the video Vince put up. He played against garbage and got lucky. I assume the 5-0 was a similar situation. Humans have been fringe in Legacy at best, and a 4cmc lord doesn't suddenly make the deck dominant. Also keep in mind that in both cases the players jammed almost the entire contents of the box into their decks specifically to 'prove' that they're all busted and justify the outrage. How many decks like this failed miserably in the same time-frame?
If you look at Greg Orange's screenshots, he was very much trying to spark outrage.
I will however admit that Rick is apparently playable in Legacy, but he's definitely not good, and the rest of them are straight trash. People will stop running Engineered Plague in favor of something better, and he'll stop going in decks pretty quickly. The net effect of this Secret Lair on Legacy will be that black decks don't auto-win against humans in games 2 and 3.
The asking price for the cards is hilarious though, all of the idiots who bought in hard as a speculation bet are going to get absolutely hosed on this. There's too much hype around it and that means there will be too many copies on the market, which will dramatically outstrip demand in the longrun. I do sealed product speculation with some regularity and I'm not touching this one with a 1000-foot pole. Got one for personal use, one to part out for friends, and I'm done.
I'd like to hear from the one or two posters that said that these cards would see zero play and that they are not strong. Rick is what pushes humans up a notch thanks to him offering so much.
Makes me wonder how prepared the meta was for something like humans to show up and if this is just a fluke though and that if this deck was created just to prove something. Either the cards are garbage and no one needs to worry or they're strong and WotC ****ed the whole thing up once again with a product like this.
They won 5 games 1 time, and only brought Rick in from the side board a single time. None of the games seemed terribly competitive.
I flipped a coin and got 5 heads in a row. Is the coin rigged?
EDIT: It's an event publicized to make people upset over nothing feel validated. Kinda like when a vocal minority creates a whiny echo chamber to do the same thing.
People could belive if you said that Negan, Daryl, and Michone were in sideboard in most of the games the deck had at least 2 Ricks are you saying the guy played most of the games with a 10 or 8 sideboard...
Rick is probably legacy playable in the next weeks we will know for true.
I'm saying that the deck wasn't built to be competitive, that it was made to validate some whiny point, and has done exactly that. I've 5-0'd an FNM with a Chimney pImp in my sideboard. This is the equivalent. So tes, they played 5 games with a reduced sideboard against opponents who didn't seem eager to win. My bad, Rick saw play as a 2 of, and may have impacted the board in a meaningful way once in a game.
Everyone touting it as validation of any point is either incredibly bad at statistics, or being dishonest. How many 5 game legacy events have fired in the same time frame that involved 0 Walking Dead cards? How many have been full of Rick-Human tribal shenaningans? Are we really at the point where 5 games played once almost a week ago is being held as evidence of anything?
my argument isn't so much that its proof, more so that its potential proof. that is to say yes, its one event, but its still a 5-0. will there be more like that? time will tell, but for now there was at least one small event where it was a powerhouse. it could be the start of something, or maybe not.
ultimately, given everything else regarding this product... ANY success with these in a tournament setting means the product was a mistake for two reasons. one that they were strong enough to make any sort of showing, and two that it shows some meta chasers that they're worth picking up because of a future impact. when you throw that in with all the other complaints regarding this product that's a pretty big no-no. the precedent and implications are just too... it means too much to have these be a success from a gameplay and sales standpoint together regarding the future of magic.
these should have been reskins of existing cards, or pure collectors items. that simple.
Anything can be potential proof. Proof either is or is not, that's how it works.
They won 5 games 1 time, and only brought Rick in from the side board a single time. None of the games seemed terribly competitive.
I flipped a coin and got 5 heads in a row. Is the coin rigged?
EDIT: It's an event publicized to make people upset over nothing feel validated. Kinda like when a vocal minority creates a whiny echo chamber to do the same thing.
People could belive if you said that Negan, Daryl, and Michone were in sideboard in most of the games the deck had at least 2 Ricks are you saying the guy played most of the games with a 10 or 8 sideboard...
Rick is probably legacy playable in the next weeks we will know for true.
I'm saying that the deck wasn't built to be competitive, that it was made to validate some whiny point, and has done exactly that. I've 5-0'd an FNM with a Chimney pImp in my sideboard. This is the equivalent. So tes, they played 5 games with a reduced sideboard against opponents who didn't seem eager to win. My bad, Rick saw play as a 2 of, and may have impacted the board in a meaningful way once in a game.
Everyone touting it as validation of any point is either incredibly bad at statistics, or being dishonest. How many 5 game legacy events have fired in the same time frame that involved 0 Walking Dead cards? How many have been full of Rick-Human tribal shenaningans? Are we really at the point where 5 games played once almost a week ago is being held as evidence of anything?
my argument isn't so much that its proof, more so that its potential proof. that is to say yes, its one event, but its still a 5-0. will there be more like that? time will tell, but for now there was at least one small event where it was a powerhouse. it could be the start of something, or maybe not.
ultimately, given everything else regarding this product... ANY success with these in a tournament setting means the product was a mistake for two reasons. one that they were strong enough to make any sort of showing, and two that it shows some meta chasers that they're worth picking up because of a future impact. when you throw that in with all the other complaints regarding this product that's a pretty big no-no. the precedent and implications are just too... it means too much to have these be a success from a gameplay and sales standpoint together regarding the future of magic.
these should have been reskins of existing cards, or pure collectors items. that simple.
Anything can be potential proof. Proof either is or is not, that's how it works.
No i disagree. I think that fails to take in the full extent of issues surrounding these cards, and that we dont fully know where the decisions regarding this product will take us. If it were a simple issue and not one so complex, with all future implications in stone yes, sure. But when we look at the full extent of arguments against these cards it gets messy really fast
People could belive if you said that Negan, Daryl, and Michone were in sideboard in most of the games the deck had at least 2 Ricks are you saying the guy played most of the games with a 10 or 8 sideboard...
Rick is probably legacy playable in the next weeks we will know for true.
I'm saying that the deck wasn't built to be competitive, that it was made to validate some whiny point, and has done exactly that. I've 5-0'd an FNM with a Chimney pImp in my sideboard. This is the equivalent. So tes, they played 5 games with a reduced sideboard against opponents who didn't seem eager to win. My bad, Rick saw play as a 2 of, and may have impacted the board in a meaningful way once in a game.
Everyone touting it as validation of any point is either incredibly bad at statistics, or being dishonest. How many 5 game legacy events have fired in the same time frame that involved 0 Walking Dead cards? How many have been full of Rick-Human tribal shenaningans? Are we really at the point where 5 games played once almost a week ago is being held as evidence of anything?
my argument isn't so much that its proof, more so that its potential proof. that is to say yes, its one event, but its still a 5-0. will there be more like that? time will tell, but for now there was at least one small event where it was a powerhouse. it could be the start of something, or maybe not.
ultimately, given everything else regarding this product... ANY success with these in a tournament setting means the product was a mistake for two reasons. one that they were strong enough to make any sort of showing, and two that it shows some meta chasers that they're worth picking up because of a future impact. when you throw that in with all the other complaints regarding this product that's a pretty big no-no. the precedent and implications are just too... it means too much to have these be a success from a gameplay and sales standpoint together regarding the future of magic.
these should have been reskins of existing cards, or pure collectors items. that simple.
Anything can be potential proof. Proof either is or is not, that's how it works.
No i disagree. I think that fails to take in the full extent of issues surrounding these cards, and that we dont fully know where the decisions regarding this product will take us. If it were a simple issue and not one so complex, with all future implications in stone yes, sure. But when we look at the full extent of arguments against these cards it gets messy really fast
So you admit that you don't know the ramifications? Then how can this be proof of anything? It isn't proof, potential or otherwise.
I'm saying that the deck wasn't built to be competitive, that it was made to validate some whiny point, and has done exactly that.
You keep insulting the point as whiny when your "argument(s)" have probably been more whiny than anyone else's here.
You've yet at any point decided to actually discuss things and only insult others. Again, if you want to discuss things then do so, but you need actual points and not "you're all whiny that are missing out."
The asking price for the cards is hilarious though, all of the idiots who bought in hard as a speculation bet are going to get absolutely hosed on this. There's too much hype around it and that means there will be too many copies on the market, which will dramatically outstrip demand in the longrun. I do sealed product speculation with some regularity and I'm not touching this one with a 1000-foot pole. Got one for personal use, one to part out for friends, and I'm done.
I doubt prices will go down on this product. SLs have been a really easy way to make a quick buck on the investment and this will be more so, even if the cards are not playable.
I'm saying that the deck wasn't built to be competitive, that it was made to validate some whiny point, and has done exactly that.
You keep insulting the point as whiny when your "argument(s)" have probably been more whiny than anyone else's here.
You've yet at any point decided to actually discuss things and only insult others. Again, if you want to discuss things then do so, but you need actual points and not "you're all whiny that are missing out."
The asking price for the cards is hilarious though, all of the idiots who bought in hard as a speculation bet are going to get absolutely hosed on this. There's too much hype around it and that means there will be too many copies on the market, which will dramatically outstrip demand in the longrun. I do sealed product speculation with some regularity and I'm not touching this one with a 1000-foot pole. Got one for personal use, one to part out for friends, and I'm done.
I doubt prices will go down on this product. SLs have been a really easy way to make a quick buck on the investment and this will be more so, even if the cards are not playable.
What have I whined about? I've stated that, for the 5,000,000th time in it's history, despite the loud crying of some segmemts of the fanbase,
, the game is not dying or being harmed by a minor decision to release an ignorable product. Thatre emotional reaction of some people is strange and uncalled for. Scroll up to see people creating bizarre strawmen and fighting them instead of addressing my points for proof on that. He'll, you really only need to scroll up to where it says "quote"
Who have I insulted? I've not pointed at a single person and levelled the types of insults I've received having been on this site for a week. Other communities have also leveled insults at me simply for stating that I'd purchased this product. I haven't insulted anyone here or otherwise. If you feel personally insulted because you relate to a side on this so much that by me calling the argument whiny, you feel that I am calling you whiny, that is your own set of problems. Anyone who feels that way should try and emotionally detach from their hobby a bit, it's unhealthy.
How have I not engaged in discussion? Simply because I disagree with most of the 12 people still on this sinking ship? They'll live.
EDIT: I laughed so hard at the idea of "insulting the point" that I choked on my coffee a bit. Hilarious. Have the point fill out an HR report or something.
I'm saying that the deck wasn't built to be competitive, that it was made to validate some whiny point, and has done exactly that.
You keep insulting the point as whiny when your "argument(s)" have probably been more whiny than anyone else's here.
You've yet at any point decided to actually discuss things and only insult others. Again, if you want to discuss things then do so, but you need actual points and not "you're all whiny that are missing out."
The asking price for the cards is hilarious though, all of the idiots who bought in hard as a speculation bet are going to get absolutely hosed on this. There's too much hype around it and that means there will be too many copies on the market, which will dramatically outstrip demand in the longrun. I do sealed product speculation with some regularity and I'm not touching this one with a 1000-foot pole. Got one for personal use, one to part out for friends, and I'm done.
I doubt prices will go down on this product. SLs have been a really easy way to make a quick buck on the investment and this will be more so, even if the cards are not playable.
What have I whined about? I've stated that, for the 5,000,000th time in it's history, despite the loud crying of some segmemts of the fanbase,
, the game is not dying or being harmed by a minor decision to release an ignorable product. Thatre emotional reaction of some people is strange and uncalled for. Scroll up to see people creating bizarre strawmen and fighting them instead of addressing my points for proof on that. He'll, you really only need to scroll up to where it says "quote"
Who have I insulted? I've not pointed at a single person and levelled the types of insults I've received having been on this site for a week. Other communities have also leveled insults at me simply for stating that I'd purchased this product. I haven't insulted anyone here or otherwise. If you feel personally insulted because you relate to a side on this so much that by me calling the argument whiny, you feel that I am calling you whiny, that is your own set of problems. Anyone who feels that way should try and emotionally detach from their hobby a bit, it's unhealthy.
How have I not engaged in discussion? Simply because I disagree with most of the 12 people still on this sinking ship? They'll live.
EDIT: I laughed so hard at the idea of "insulting the point" that I choked on my coffee a bit. Hilarious. Have the point fill out an HR report or something.
A product can sell well and still damage the game.
If only this same outrage about a few cards was used to pressure Wotc about jump start we may be able to use those cards. For all the screaming about secret lair cards being unobtainable here we have a real product with some of the legendaries pushing 100$ and also being unavailable outside of the usa yet I don’t see thousands of posts on reddit or YouTube about that.
I don’t like walking dead in mtg but at the end of the day they are cards, just like every other card. Artificial scarcity is a problem beyond Rick.
If only this same outrage about a few cards was used to pressure Wotc about jump start we may be able to use those cards. For all the screaming about secret lair cards being unobtainable here we have a real product with some of the legendaries pushing 100$ and also being unavailable outside of the usa yet I don’t see thousands of posts on reddit or YouTube about that.
I don’t like walking dead in mtg but at the end of the day they are cards, just like every other card. Artificial scarcity is a problem beyond Rick.
The difference is eveything in jumpstart is an actual in-universe magic card that could be reprinted in any set and that jumpstart is in theory an unlimited print run. People's hatred of TWD stems from two main points (I think the criticism of Negan is reasonable for those who have had traumatic sexual assault experiences, but I think that's a very small slice of the complaints and one that it's harder to argue logically, so I'll leave it aside for now). First, that the only versions of these cards one can get are obviously from TWD and not magic, so if you think Rick is an interesting mechanical card, but don't like TWD, too bad, you have to play Rick or nothing. The other is that they are mechanically unique, black-bordered cards that are only available for a week, only available to some countries, and only available at a high price point (especially if you are shipping to a non-US country where the fees get absurd - like a $50 secret lair is suddenly $100). Neither of these criticisms are true of Jump Start.
The production issues of Jump Start are certainly frustrating, but there's no reason for us to think they will continue forever, and it's the result of a global pandemic, not a choice by WOTC. I don't think Emiel the Blessed will still be a $50 card once the dust settles on Jump Start.
Edit - and exactly 1 card in the set has a TCG mid of $100, and it's the elf, which I assume is that expensive because people think it will have an impact in non-commander formats. The next highest is the mill guy at $65.
Why does any criticism always have to be twisted into "screaming," "whining," and "crying?" Can't people have opinions without being denigrated? It's not hard to be civil and be intellectually honest about people's concerns.
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Why does any criticism always have to be twisted into "screaming," "whining," and "crying?" Can't people have opinions without being denigrated? It's not hard to be civil and be intellectually honest about people's concerns.
Not all criticism is valid. Not all criticism is backed up by much more than emotion. It's not hard to make logical conclusions based on tangible facts.
Any, always, have to... that's a lot of absolutes for someone concerned about intellectual honesty
Even if you disagree with someone's opinion it would foster a much more positive environment if you didn't call people whiners or otherwise negatively mischaracterize them. It does nothing to further discussion and only serves to antagonize people you disagree with. I'd like to be able to state my opinions on this board without being met with rudeness.
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Even if you disagree with someone's opinion it would foster a much more positive environment if you didn't call people whiners or otherwise negatively mischaracterize them. It does nothing to further discussion and only serves to antagonize people you disagree with. I'd like to be able to state my opinions on this board without being met with rudeness.
Nobody got called a whiner. Don't take things so personally.
I've stated that, for the 5,000,000th time in it's history, despite the loud crying of some segmemts of the fanbase,
, the game is not dying
The game will never die.
D&D didn't die after the debacle of the 4th edition. Yet to try ask its developers or Hasbro if they are happy with their past decisions.
This whole "unless the game dies, it doesn't matter" rethoric is really naive.
Magic will never die. It doesn't mean it can't fail.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I've stated that, for the 5,000,000th time in it's history, despite the loud crying of some segmemts of the fanbase,
, the game is not dying
The game will never die.
D&D didn't die after the debacle of the 4th edition. Yet to try ask its developers or Hasbro if they are happy with their past decisions.
This whole "unless the game dies, it doesn't matter" rethoric is really naive.
Magic will never die. It doesn't mean it can't fail.
And if you listen to that vocal minority, everything is a failure, almost 30 years of non stop failure. Not really sure why people who don't enjoy the game tend to care so much.
Not really sure why people who don't enjoy the game tend to care so much.
People that enjoy something tend to not complain about it.
The people that dont enjoy it tend to complain.
Its pretty simple.
But not enjoying the current iteration does not mean you hate it so much that you just leave it behind.
Plenty of people are invested in the game and the game is also not a single pile you can only enjoy or hate on, plenty of parts that are good and plenty of failure involved in the grand picture.
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That said, the people that complain are more valuable for a company, as they give you feedback about what you can look to change to make it enjoyable for them too and potentially get more customers that will then like the product.
With each change and iteration its a calculation of how many people will like the changes and how many will not like them, up to a degree they jump ship and not consume your product anymore (Customer binding/investment is powerful and expensive to restore if you lose it).
----
Plenty of people hate Standard and still play Commander casually, while competitive Commander might have more problems.
In general, casual formats tend to have less problems, compared to competitive formats, that tend to rely on competent guidelines and rules to work.
So casual players that play Oko, Uro or any other banned card can play with them just fine, its not a problem.
For competitive players the broken cards and mistakes in testing have a much bigger impact.
----
Plenty of different voices, positive or negative, neither is better or worse in itself, each contributes to the big picture.
Could you imagine the boost the game would get if they did Warcraft? They could literally put Stormrage and a bunch of Murloc tokens and it would be their best-selling lair yet
And if you listen to that vocal minority, everything is a failure, almost 30 years of non stop failure. Not really sure why people who don't enjoy the game tend to care so much.
This secret lair is a *****ty idea, a dumb money-grabbing greed-induced monstrosity that creates a new reserved lists, put some commander decks behind a huge paywall and dilutes magic's lore.
I don't get why this should also mean that i can't enjoy a commander night with my friends, or that if i want to enjoy that commander night i should shut up about this *****ty product.
Remind me the Shandalar sliver debacle. Maro's came out with a boastful article, "the 20 times magic should have died", where number 20 was the Shandalar slivers themself.
Except no one was calling for the game to die, everyone with a brain was simply pointing at an incredible dumb idea that was indescribably bad from a creative point of view and turned mtg most iconic original creatures into a pile of trash.
Of course wotc couldn't admit their mistake, there was no going back! Complainers were just a whiny, entitled vocal minority!
Guess what happened to slivers in modern horizon...
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
*****, what's wrong with us. Game of Thrones! I know the show lost a lot of fans with the way it petered out at the end, but there would still be so much love for a crossover like that.
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I'm saying that the deck wasn't built to be competitive, that it was made to validate some whiny point, and has done exactly that. I've 5-0'd an FNM with a Chimney pImp in my sideboard. This is the equivalent. So tes, they played 5 games with a reduced sideboard against opponents who didn't seem eager to win. My bad, Rick saw play as a 2 of, and may have impacted the board in a meaningful way once in a game.
Everyone touting it as validation of any point is either incredibly bad at statistics, or being dishonest. How many 5 game legacy events have fired in the same time frame that involved 0 Walking Dead cards? How many have been full of Rick-Human tribal shenaningans? Are we really at the point where 5 games played once almost a week ago is being held as evidence of anything?
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
my argument isn't so much that its proof, more so that its potential proof. that is to say yes, its one event, but its still a 5-0. will there be more like that? time will tell, but for now there was at least one small event where it was a powerhouse. it could be the start of something, or maybe not.
ultimately, given everything else regarding this product... ANY success with these in a tournament setting means the product was a mistake for two reasons. one that they were strong enough to make any sort of showing, and two that it shows some meta chasers that they're worth picking up because of a future impact. when you throw that in with all the other complaints regarding this product that's a pretty big no-no. the precedent and implications are just too... it means too much to have these be a success from a gameplay and sales standpoint together regarding the future of magic.
these should have been reskins of existing cards, or pure collectors items. that simple.
If you look at Greg Orange's screenshots, he was very much trying to spark outrage.
I will however admit that Rick is apparently playable in Legacy, but he's definitely not good, and the rest of them are straight trash. People will stop running Engineered Plague in favor of something better, and he'll stop going in decks pretty quickly. The net effect of this Secret Lair on Legacy will be that black decks don't auto-win against humans in games 2 and 3.
The asking price for the cards is hilarious though, all of the idiots who bought in hard as a speculation bet are going to get absolutely hosed on this. There's too much hype around it and that means there will be too many copies on the market, which will dramatically outstrip demand in the longrun. I do sealed product speculation with some regularity and I'm not touching this one with a 1000-foot pole. Got one for personal use, one to part out for friends, and I'm done.
Anything can be potential proof. Proof either is or is not, that's how it works.
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
No i disagree. I think that fails to take in the full extent of issues surrounding these cards, and that we dont fully know where the decisions regarding this product will take us. If it were a simple issue and not one so complex, with all future implications in stone yes, sure. But when we look at the full extent of arguments against these cards it gets messy really fast
So you admit that you don't know the ramifications? Then how can this be proof of anything? It isn't proof, potential or otherwise.
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
You keep insulting the point as whiny when your "argument(s)" have probably been more whiny than anyone else's here.
You've yet at any point decided to actually discuss things and only insult others. Again, if you want to discuss things then do so, but you need actual points and not "you're all whiny that are missing out."
I doubt prices will go down on this product. SLs have been a really easy way to make a quick buck on the investment and this will be more so, even if the cards are not playable.
What have I whined about? I've stated that, for the 5,000,000th time in it's history, despite the loud crying of some segmemts of the fanbase,
, the game is not dying or being harmed by a minor decision to release an ignorable product. Thatre emotional reaction of some people is strange and uncalled for. Scroll up to see people creating bizarre strawmen and fighting them instead of addressing my points for proof on that. He'll, you really only need to scroll up to where it says "quote"
Who have I insulted? I've not pointed at a single person and levelled the types of insults I've received having been on this site for a week. Other communities have also leveled insults at me simply for stating that I'd purchased this product. I haven't insulted anyone here or otherwise. If you feel personally insulted because you relate to a side on this so much that by me calling the argument whiny, you feel that I am calling you whiny, that is your own set of problems. Anyone who feels that way should try and emotionally detach from their hobby a bit, it's unhealthy.
How have I not engaged in discussion? Simply because I disagree with most of the 12 people still on this sinking ship? They'll live.
EDIT: I laughed so hard at the idea of "insulting the point" that I choked on my coffee a bit. Hilarious. Have the point fill out an HR report or something.
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
A product can sell well and still damage the game.
So theres that.
I don’t like walking dead in mtg but at the end of the day they are cards, just like every other card. Artificial scarcity is a problem beyond Rick.
The difference is eveything in jumpstart is an actual in-universe magic card that could be reprinted in any set and that jumpstart is in theory an unlimited print run. People's hatred of TWD stems from two main points (I think the criticism of Negan is reasonable for those who have had traumatic sexual assault experiences, but I think that's a very small slice of the complaints and one that it's harder to argue logically, so I'll leave it aside for now). First, that the only versions of these cards one can get are obviously from TWD and not magic, so if you think Rick is an interesting mechanical card, but don't like TWD, too bad, you have to play Rick or nothing. The other is that they are mechanically unique, black-bordered cards that are only available for a week, only available to some countries, and only available at a high price point (especially if you are shipping to a non-US country where the fees get absurd - like a $50 secret lair is suddenly $100). Neither of these criticisms are true of Jump Start.
The production issues of Jump Start are certainly frustrating, but there's no reason for us to think they will continue forever, and it's the result of a global pandemic, not a choice by WOTC. I don't think Emiel the Blessed will still be a $50 card once the dust settles on Jump Start.
Edit - and exactly 1 card in the set has a TCG mid of $100, and it's the elf, which I assume is that expensive because people think it will have an impact in non-commander formats. The next highest is the mill guy at $65.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Not all criticism is valid. Not all criticism is backed up by much more than emotion. It's not hard to make logical conclusions based on tangible facts.
Any, always, have to... that's a lot of absolutes for someone concerned about intellectual honesty
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
Nobody got called a whiner. Don't take things so personally.
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
The game will never die.
D&D didn't die after the debacle of the 4th edition. Yet to try ask its developers or Hasbro if they are happy with their past decisions.
This whole "unless the game dies, it doesn't matter" rethoric is really naive.
Magic will never die. It doesn't mean it can't fail.
And if you listen to that vocal minority, everything is a failure, almost 30 years of non stop failure. Not really sure why people who don't enjoy the game tend to care so much.
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
People that enjoy something tend to not complain about it.
The people that dont enjoy it tend to complain.
Its pretty simple.
But not enjoying the current iteration does not mean you hate it so much that you just leave it behind.
Plenty of people are invested in the game and the game is also not a single pile you can only enjoy or hate on, plenty of parts that are good and plenty of failure involved in the grand picture.
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That said, the people that complain are more valuable for a company, as they give you feedback about what you can look to change to make it enjoyable for them too and potentially get more customers that will then like the product.
With each change and iteration its a calculation of how many people will like the changes and how many will not like them, up to a degree they jump ship and not consume your product anymore (Customer binding/investment is powerful and expensive to restore if you lose it).
----
Plenty of people hate Standard and still play Commander casually, while competitive Commander might have more problems.
In general, casual formats tend to have less problems, compared to competitive formats, that tend to rely on competent guidelines and rules to work.
So casual players that play Oko, Uro or any other banned card can play with them just fine, its not a problem.
For competitive players the broken cards and mistakes in testing have a much bigger impact.
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Plenty of different voices, positive or negative, neither is better or worse in itself, each contributes to the big picture.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
#Urza's block #Mirrodin #Ikoria
Could you imagine the boost the game would get if they did Warcraft? They could literally put Stormrage and a bunch of Murloc tokens and it would be their best-selling lair yet
Mtg collab with Diablo would be cool and dream
League of Legends and Dota 2 would be also a good collab
This secret lair is a *****ty idea, a dumb money-grabbing greed-induced monstrosity that creates a new reserved lists, put some commander decks behind a huge paywall and dilutes magic's lore.
I don't get why this should also mean that i can't enjoy a commander night with my friends, or that if i want to enjoy that commander night i should shut up about this *****ty product.
Remind me the Shandalar sliver debacle. Maro's came out with a boastful article, "the 20 times magic should have died", where number 20 was the Shandalar slivers themself.
Except no one was calling for the game to die, everyone with a brain was simply pointing at an incredible dumb idea that was indescribably bad from a creative point of view and turned mtg most iconic original creatures into a pile of trash.
Of course wotc couldn't admit their mistake, there was no going back! Complainers were just a whiny, entitled vocal minority!
Guess what happened to slivers in modern horizon...