first is on This WHOIS a public name registry the suposive set name is by registry of Network Solutions which is historically used by WOTC he showed screen shots of this it was posted only 2 days ago (October 12th 2020)
Second this plane a public magic survey showed art of walkers and about the plane
now for the reveal
we are finally returning to kamigawa (if real anyway) And it goes by the namE
kamigawa, Neon dynasty
and it’s Now a cyberpunk world in the present/future before you throw anger that they completely changed it from what it was before reminder the kamigawa we all know is Around 1000 years in the past Second it wouldn't shock me at all if sagas were here (if happening anyway)
oh the survey I mentioned Is about ninjas with telekinetic powers With cyberpunk stuff and kamigawa in the future
We've been to contemporary kamigawa and it doesn't sound cyberpunk. That doesn't mean this couldn't change or that the full plane is the way it's described here.
Either way, I don't think Maro was the person who needed convincing. As I understand the situation, it was the business suits who didn't want to go back to a world that sold poorly last time.
I am not a fan of this idea from just the name, but we'll see if this is true and what comes of it. This could easily just be a Secret Lair for Kamigawa where they introduce us to a "Time Spiral" shenaniganed version where it's futuristic and neon.
Cyberpunk 2077 coming out soon. This matchs with their release schedule.
Now the planeswalkers options: all humans, one is a Hacker/Na'vi , The other is a Ninja with Jedi powers, and the other is a samurai/ronin mess. All males and humans.
Wizards, plz, you could have done a Snake/Naga, Fox, Spirit-like, Goblin(turtle), Rat(Nezumi) walker and you choose a boring human again, nice (at least we will have bunny woman walker, i guess)
I'm a bit worried about the Cyberpunk aspect though. Not that it wouldn't make sense with an advanced Kamigawa, with the Kami War having been so ancient, but that I feel they're selecting the wrong anime to incorporate into MTG and an updated Kamigawa. Sailor Moon, sure. Magical crystal wielding, planet-aligned, heroic waifus seems right at home with the fantasy setting. But advanced mecha technology might be pushing the boundary in the wrong direction because the theme itself is too modern for high fantasy. At first glance it appears to go beyond even Kaladesh level development, which itself pushed several envelopes. But we'll have to see.
There's a lot of anime and traditional Japanese aesthetic to pull from while maintaining high fantasy roots.
Given Kamigawa's heavy emphasis on spirits, what's our chance of getting a Ghost in the Shell vibe in Neon Dynasty?
I actually don't mind the cyberpunk, as long as it's on the Kaladesh level type of magi-tech. Remember how Time Spiral also trespass timelines over eons of Dominaria, and while that set remain fantasy-centric, I'm ok with a little more magi-tech in Kamigawa (again, no more than Kaladesh).
I'm all for Ghost in the Shell though. What would happen if a God level spirit embedded inside a machine?
Sounds fun!! I think if they put enough resources into it, this could be awesome... if they rushed through it to make a cash grab... can be quite the dumpster fire ...
Sounds fun!! I think if they put enough resources into it, this could be awesome... if they rushed through it to make a cash grab... can be quite the dumpster fire ...
If this spoiler is accurate then there's lots of time between now and then. Doesn't seem rushed.
They might seek an excuse to put Gundam (Mechs) in Magic somehow just like they put Godzilla in Ikoria.
Incorporating technology in Magic is not too complicated, as we have seen in Kaladesh , which is quite "Steam-Punk" and has plenty of turrets, air ships and giant robots (golems).
Putting a japanese flavor on Kaladesh can easily result in a Cyberpunk inspired setting, with more Magic involved rather than just technology, and if they want to give humans some enhancements, thats what equipment is doing anyway.
----
I can absolutely see this to work out.
Could also be an interesting mix of spiritual and technology.
Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
I have been waiting for the day Kamigawa returns. Each time we say ninja or story pieces I was waiting.
But not like this, I get that Kamigawa is from the ancient past, Toshiro is the grandfather of Tetsuo who original dispatch Nicol Bolas. That being said, I am not really down for my beloved world of spirits and swords to be a cyberpunk futuristic plane.
At first glance I am not optimistic, but we'll see what comes. I am just not going to hold my breath.
Either way, I don't think Maro was the person who needed convincing. As I understand the situation, it was the business suits who didn't want to go back to a world that sold poorly last time.
It's not the plane aesthetic and atmosphere that failed Kamigawa. It was most of the printed cards being played was underwhelming and boring after mirrodin and before ravnica.
Imagine those cards swap creature type and mechanic turned into another usual generic plane or something close to Dominaria plane it would still fail.
Neon Dynasty doesn’t sound legit to me. Dynasty makes me think of China, not Japan. I also don’t think they would go cyberpunk. Kaladesh is already their technologically advanced plane and it was popular. I doubt they would want to step on the creative space of another plane like that. If cyberpunk is something they’re willing to do it seems like a natural progression of Kaladesh’s steampunk vibe, not Kamigawa’s spiritual, nature-based vibe.
Calling it now: Lukka will be the villain of Kamigawa 2.0 and he'll be the one to bring Kaijus into the plane. No idea why he would do that, but then again it's Lukka. Dude couldn't even keep a consistent personality and motivation on a single set, nevermind a year.
It's not the plane aesthetic and atmosphere that failed Kamigawa. It was most of the printed cards being played was underwhelming and boring after mirrodin and before ravnica.
Not entirely true, at least based on what MaRo told us. In their attempt to make Kamigawa accurate to Japanese myths and properly portray it in Magic lore, they "dug too deep" into Japanese mythology and showcased every part of the least resonant aspects of it.
Sure we had Samurais and Ninjas and everyone liked these, but they were overshadowed by all the stuff that got shifted too much from their original source (like Akkis, which very few people even realized were supposed to be a stand-in for Kappas), stuff that was just too obscure (like Moonfolk or the Deceiver/face-stealer cycle) or stuff that simply didn't felt different enough from what already existed in Magic (aka. the entire focus of the block, the Spirit/Arcane stuff), all while missing some major players like Tengus, Kaijus or classic Obakemonos. MaRo has been discussing this idea of making a 2nd brand new Japan-inspired plane since original Innistrad, so the "time skip" solution seems both realistic and acceptable.
Assuming this is true, I wonder if it takes place in the contemporary story or if it is an attempt by Magic to enter a new genre by adding a parallel "in the future" story offshoot featuring the multiverse in a few millennia. Basically try to get both fantasy fans and "modern fantasy" fans as well.
Also, I kinda want to hate this, but I dunno. If this is done well, this could be interesting at the very least visually.
Glad everyone seems excited so far.
Me, this seems horrible but hey I'm just and old guy shaking my fist at clouds
I'm with you. This is not the return to Kamigawa I wanted to see. Give me spirits and arcane, ninjutsu and bushido, not cyberpunk with planeswalkers.
Basing a need for change on 15 year old market research is pretty damn stupid, imo. Especially to this extreme, if this is actually a set and not a Secret Lair. None of their new planes has to jump through these stupid market research hurdles, so it's not like they don't choose to take risks.
Calling it now: Lukka will be the villain of Kamigawa 2.0 and he'll be the one to bring Kaijus into the plane. No idea why he would do that, but then again it's Lukka. Dude couldn't even keep a consistent personality and motivation on a single set, nevermind a year.
It's not the plane aesthetic and atmosphere that failed Kamigawa. It was most of the printed cards being played was underwhelming and boring after mirrodin and before ravnica.
Not entirely true, at least based on what MaRo told us. In their attempt to make Kamigawa accurate to Japanese myths and properly portray it in Magic lore, they "dug too deep" into Japanese mythology and showcased every part of the least resonant aspects of it.
FALSE
Can you link an article were MARO said that and also were he claimed it was too accurate that cause the failure?
because that is impossible, I'm speaking of Game Design STANDPOINT?
It's not even too ACCURATE Japanese myths. It's not the Japanese myth that makes a card game fail it was how they delivered how they would play.
Your main point is the Kamigawa being the failure because of the Japanese Myth in it.
It's like Japanese mythology isn't compatible to MTG
Saying Kamigawa was too Accurate to Japanese myth that made it fail is a terrible analogy to game design specially when it's as flexible like MTG.
Are familiar with the other Japanese TCG back then.
Your main point is the Kamigawa being the failure because of the Japanese Myth in it.
OK, so. Your post made it clear that you're ESL, and I'm not mocking you for it (I'm ESL too) but I'm not sure if you Google translated my post and got something completely broken out of if... but either way, if this is what you got from my post, you really need to reread it. The point is that the interpretation of Japanese myths in Kamigawa was poorly executed because it delivered many aspects that people didn't cared for or didn't know, while missing major beats that people would expect from Japanese myths and culture. People often praise how cool Ninjas and Ninjutsu was, for example, while missing the fact that eight cards out of 600+ were Ninjas.
As for citations, most of what MaRo says is said in Blogatog, however since Tumblr is, well, Tumblr, most of it is difficult to reach or lost in time. But here's two snippets from MaRo's "Rabiah Scale" article:
Kamigawa was very faithful to its source material, but played around in a lot of spaces that weren't very resonant for the majority of the audience, making the set feel more "weird" than focused. It definitely has a distinctive look, but not one that scored well in the market research. Again, through the lens of time and the Commander format, it has built up some new fans.
As I've explained numerous times on social media, this return is a tough sell for me to make internally based on how disastrous the first visit went. The biggest factor that a return hinges on is how much are we allowed to change and still call it Kamigawa. The set has minimal mechanical space we want to return to and many creative choices we would do differently if we started over with the source material.
Calling it now: Lukka will be the villain of Kamigawa 2.0 and he'll be the one to bring Kaijus into the plane. No idea why he would do that, but then again it's Lukka. Dude couldn't even keep a consistent personality and motivation on a single set, nevermind a year.
It's not the plane aesthetic and atmosphere that failed Kamigawa. It was most of the printed cards being played was underwhelming and boring after mirrodin and before ravnica.
Not entirely true, at least based on what MaRo told us. In their attempt to make Kamigawa accurate to Japanese myths and properly portray it in Magic lore, they "dug too deep" into Japanese mythology and showcased every part of the least resonant aspects of it.
FALSE
Can you link an article were MARO said that and also were he claimed it was too accurate that cause the failure?
because that is impossible, I'm speaking of Game Design STANDPOINT?
It's not even too ACCURATE Japanese myths. It's not the Japanese myth that makes a card game fail it was how they delivered how they would play.
Your main point is the Kamigawa being the failure because of the Japanese Myth in it.
It's like Japanese mythology isn't compatible to MTG
Saying Kamigawa was too Accurate to Japanese myth that made it fail is a terrible analogy to game design specially when it's as flexible like MTG.
Are familiar with the other Japanese TCG back then.
This only took me a few minutes to compile; there are many more posts on his blog where he elaborates. Some highlights include: non-resonant tropes and setting (as a comparison to newer top-down sets: too many Hundred-Handed Ones and Serpopards, not enough minotaurs and pyramids); confusing/hard-to-remember legendary creature names; spirits that didn't look like spirits. I'm sure there were many more. Fact is the setting was too esoteric to translate well for mass audiences. And yes, anime has become more popular over the last decade and a half, but not popular enough that the setting would work today, at least not without majorly overhauling the creative (which is what they seem to have done, assuming the original post is correct).
I'm cautiously optimistic about this. At first glance, this idea seems a bit off-putting, but I imagine Kaladesh's focus on technology and vehicles would be as similarly strange and "not magic" as this sounds if introduced to me now, out of context. I'm willing to give this a shot and am excited to go back to Kamigawa, and hope that some of the design elements of the original visit are returned to. I really hope this set doesn't turn into Anime: the card game though. Because one, boiling down modern Japanese culture to anime elements is a real bastardization of the culture, and two, I personally would not be fond of an oversaturation of those elements.
To explain this before we get to the set name
the Evidence of this
first is on This WHOIS a public name registry the suposive set name is by registry of Network Solutions which is historically used by WOTC he showed screen shots of this it was posted only 2 days ago (October 12th 2020)
Second this plane a public magic survey showed art of walkers and about the plane
now for the reveal
we are finally returning to kamigawa (if real anyway) And it goes by the namE
kamigawa, Neon dynasty
and it’s Now a cyberpunk world in the present/future before you throw anger that they completely changed it from what it was before reminder the kamigawa we all know is Around 1000 years in the past Second it wouldn't shock me at all if sagas were here (if happening anyway)
oh the survey I mentioned Is about ninjas with telekinetic powers With cyberpunk stuff and kamigawa in the future
Either way, I don't think Maro was the person who needed convincing. As I understand the situation, it was the business suits who didn't want to go back to a world that sold poorly last time.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Now the planeswalkers options: all humans, one is a Hacker/Na'vi , The other is a Ninja with Jedi powers, and the other is a samurai/ronin mess. All males and humans.
Wizards, plz, you could have done a Snake/Naga, Fox, Spirit-like, Goblin(turtle), Rat(Nezumi) walker and you choose a boring human again, nice (at least we will have bunny woman walker, i guess)
I'm a bit worried about the Cyberpunk aspect though. Not that it wouldn't make sense with an advanced Kamigawa, with the Kami War having been so ancient, but that I feel they're selecting the wrong anime to incorporate into MTG and an updated Kamigawa. Sailor Moon, sure. Magical crystal wielding, planet-aligned, heroic waifus seems right at home with the fantasy setting. But advanced mecha technology might be pushing the boundary in the wrong direction because the theme itself is too modern for high fantasy. At first glance it appears to go beyond even Kaladesh level development, which itself pushed several envelopes. But we'll have to see.
There's a lot of anime and traditional Japanese aesthetic to pull from while maintaining high fantasy roots.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I actually don't mind the cyberpunk, as long as it's on the Kaladesh level type of magi-tech. Remember how Time Spiral also trespass timelines over eons of Dominaria, and while that set remain fantasy-centric, I'm ok with a little more magi-tech in Kamigawa (again, no more than Kaladesh).
I'm all for Ghost in the Shell though. What would happen if a God level spirit embedded inside a machine?
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
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"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
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881
Oooh Dicey:
[dice=1]100[/dice]
If this spoiler is accurate then there's lots of time between now and then. Doesn't seem rushed.
Incorporating technology in Magic is not too complicated, as we have seen in Kaladesh , which is quite "Steam-Punk" and has plenty of turrets, air ships and giant robots (golems).
Putting a japanese flavor on Kaladesh can easily result in a Cyberpunk inspired setting, with more Magic involved rather than just technology, and if they want to give humans some enhancements, thats what equipment is doing anyway.
----
I can absolutely see this to work out.
Could also be an interesting mix of spiritual and technology.
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• Call of Cthulhu CCG Servitor for the Netherlands!
Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
Old Kamigawa: Ancient Japan
New Kamigawa: Modern Japan
Of course, what I really want is a Neon Genesis Evangelion crossover.
Me, this seems horrible but hey I'm just and old guy shaking my fist at clouds
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
But not like this, I get that Kamigawa is from the ancient past, Toshiro is the grandfather of Tetsuo who original dispatch Nicol Bolas. That being said, I am not really down for my beloved world of spirits and swords to be a cyberpunk futuristic plane.
At first glance I am not optimistic, but we'll see what comes. I am just not going to hold my breath.
It's not the plane aesthetic and atmosphere that failed Kamigawa. It was most of the printed cards being played was underwhelming and boring after mirrodin and before ravnica.
Imagine those cards swap creature type and mechanic turned into another usual generic plane or something close to Dominaria plane it would still fail.
Not entirely true, at least based on what MaRo told us. In their attempt to make Kamigawa accurate to Japanese myths and properly portray it in Magic lore, they "dug too deep" into Japanese mythology and showcased every part of the least resonant aspects of it.
Sure we had Samurais and Ninjas and everyone liked these, but they were overshadowed by all the stuff that got shifted too much from their original source (like Akkis, which very few people even realized were supposed to be a stand-in for Kappas), stuff that was just too obscure (like Moonfolk or the Deceiver/face-stealer cycle) or stuff that simply didn't felt different enough from what already existed in Magic (aka. the entire focus of the block, the Spirit/Arcane stuff), all while missing some major players like Tengus, Kaijus or classic Obakemonos. MaRo has been discussing this idea of making a 2nd brand new Japan-inspired plane since original Innistrad, so the "time skip" solution seems both realistic and acceptable.
We've seen how magic blends tech and magic before with sets like kaladesh, so its not very far fetched.
Also, I kinda want to hate this, but I dunno. If this is done well, this could be interesting at the very least visually.
I think that's about as far as I can say, legally.
I'm with you. This is not the return to Kamigawa I wanted to see. Give me spirits and arcane, ninjutsu and bushido, not cyberpunk with planeswalkers.
Basing a need for change on 15 year old market research is pretty damn stupid, imo. Especially to this extreme, if this is actually a set and not a Secret Lair. None of their new planes has to jump through these stupid market research hurdles, so it's not like they don't choose to take risks.
FALSE
Can you link an article were MARO said that and also were he claimed it was too accurate that cause the failure?
because that is impossible, I'm speaking of Game Design STANDPOINT?
It's not even too ACCURATE Japanese myths. It's not the Japanese myth that makes a card game fail it was how they delivered how they would play.
Your main point is the Kamigawa being the failure because of the Japanese Myth in it.
It's like Japanese mythology isn't compatible to MTG
Saying Kamigawa was too Accurate to Japanese myth that made it fail is a terrible analogy to game design specially when it's as flexible like MTG.
Are familiar with the other Japanese TCG back then.
As for citations, most of what MaRo says is said in Blogatog, however since Tumblr is, well, Tumblr, most of it is difficult to reach or lost in time. But here's two snippets from MaRo's "Rabiah Scale" article:
TRUE!
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/21427203784/i-think-you-may-be-underestimating-your-audience-a
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/36328178334/can-we-not-see-a-return-to-kamigawa-to-do-the
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/36412404636/what-was-wrong-with-the-kamigawa-creative
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/36492003310/what-didnt-people-like-about-kamigawa-creative
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/77834619992/kamigawa-may-have-been-a-legitimate-design-flaw
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/111056883813/okay-so-youve-established-that-kamigawas
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/154559419028/i-can-see-where-people-who-dont-like-kamigawa
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/171535849908/do-you-believe-the-admittedly-bad-mechanics-of
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/175499625718/could-you-explain-what-a-lot-of-players-didnt
This only took me a few minutes to compile; there are many more posts on his blog where he elaborates. Some highlights include: non-resonant tropes and setting (as a comparison to newer top-down sets: too many Hundred-Handed Ones and Serpopards, not enough minotaurs and pyramids); confusing/hard-to-remember legendary creature names; spirits that didn't look like spirits. I'm sure there were many more. Fact is the setting was too esoteric to translate well for mass audiences. And yes, anime has become more popular over the last decade and a half, but not popular enough that the setting would work today, at least not without majorly overhauling the creative (which is what they seem to have done, assuming the original post is correct).