Sad that they had to pollute this set with an Oko-like mistake just for the big $$$
I'm not gonna buy it and i'm not gonna run it
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
This is plain stupid. Here i was, warming up to the set, loving some of the new legends, the fact that everything seemed fair, and now they dump THIS ?
I don't find it even funny. I facepalmed as soon as I read the card. They can't help it ! They HAVE to print a broken card every set now, and at Mythic of course.
This is baaaaad on so many levels.
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French Commander : Yisan Liliana Kytheon Kari Zev Grenzo Karlov Tajic Gitrog Prossh Turboramp Najeela Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro Legacy : Goblins
idk, if you don't have it in your opening hand or draw it early it's not too busted. Obviously (combo) decks that heavily rely on their commander will want this, but I don't think it goes into literally every deck. There are commanders that don't need to come out ASAP, and for them I'd rathed have more flexible ramp pieces.
Still, I really don't like it when they print pushed and hyper format-specific cards like this.
idk, if you don't have it in your opening hand or draw it early it's not too busted. Obviously (combo) decks that heavily rely on their commander will want this, but I don't think it goes into literally every deck. There are commanders that don't need to come out ASAP, and for them I'd rathed have more flexible ramp pieces.
Still, I really don't like it when they print pushed and hyper format-specific cards like this.
Literally the only decks it won't be broken in are the ones that don't care how good they are in the first place.
This card is waaaaaay worse than the hype train for it will admit. It's Black Lotus... for only one card. Sure, that card's your commander, but in order for it to be worth it, you specifically have to be running a commander that's one you want to run out early, but also one that's not going to be easily removed (thus negating the benefit), but also one that wants the effect badly enough that it's okay having this be an entirely dead draw late. Sure, there's going to be decks that can use it, but it's far from an autoinclude, and I'm extremely skeptical that it will merit a ban.
Personnally I don't think it's an autoinclude in every deck either, that's not what makes the card dangerous.
The biggest risk is that it could push decks that actively want and can play this card into busted territories.
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French Commander : Yisan Liliana Kytheon Kari Zev Grenzo Karlov Tajic Gitrog Prossh Turboramp Najeela Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro Legacy : Goblins
Not sure why it should be that good there. sure, you use it to pay half of Muldrotha's CMC. Muldrotha hits the battlefield, and you can immediately play it again.
But then it just sits around being mostly useless, a target to be destroyed or even exiled. You can't sac it and play it again and again that turn (which would be possible with any 0-mana artifact otherwise). Is there some special reason you'd like to re-cast Muldrotha? I'm just not seeing it.
Personnally I don't think it's an autoinclude in every deck either, that's not what makes the card dangerous.
The biggest risk is that it could push decks that actively want and can play this card into busted territories.
that’s about where I am 3 colors and up it’s not hazard and same for non artifact recursion
it cedh decks where the danger comes from the biggest by far is Urza, Lord High Artificer because if you somehow get it out of the yard you can still use it with urza in play since you can simple use Mox sapphire Mode with it
idk, if you don't have it in your opening hand or draw it early it's not too busted. Obviously (combo) decks that heavily rely on their commander will want this, but I don't think it goes into literally every deck. There are commanders that don't need to come out ASAP, and for them I'd rathed have more flexible ramp pieces.
Still, I really don't like it when they print pushed and hyper format-specific cards like this.
Literally the only decks it won't be broken in are the ones that don't care how good they are in the first place.
As I said, there are decks that don't suddenly get hyper-efficient just because they have their commander out. Those are usually combo or glass cannon decks that lose a lot of their power the moment their commander is removed.
Of course, there will be decks that greatly profit from this card, but when they reach a certain power level, they will automatically move into cEDH or at least "looked down upon on casual tables" territory, where using this card to get your commander out will get you hated out of the game.
Not sure why it should be that good there. sure, you use it to pay half of Muldrotha's CMC. Muldrotha hits the battlefield, and you can immediately play it again.
But then it just sits around being mostly useless, a target to be destroyed or even exiled. You can't sac it and play it again and again that turn (which would be possible with any 0-mana artifact otherwise). Is there some special reason you'd like to re-cast Muldrotha? I'm just not seeing it.
People know its broken with Lion's Eye Diamond as you can produce some infinite loops via Muldrotha , but the commander lotus doesnt really accomplish that here.
Its just stupid with Commanders that you put out turn 1 and produce some kind of instant-win immediately.
All the broken cEDH Commanders basically, get a free Ritual and randomly win games if the opponent does not play blue for some kind of Force of Will to stop it.
Its probably less universally broken than a Mana Crypt, but faster to just "ups i win" Commanders.
Let's be honest...this is only a good draw a few turns into the game if it wasn't in the opening hand, and a dead card in the late-game.
Eventually, time will tell, but I'm not particularly pleased this card was printed.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't commander supposed to be (and remain) a fun, social, and more casual format with many possible (and often interesting and unexpected) lines of play? Since when did it become just another format being pushed at the consumer base of hyper-competitive Spikes?
Does Wizards want every competitive Commander deck moving forward to simply be as many ramp mana-rocks as possible and a few select finishers?
Either way, I'll only trade for or buy this abomination of a card at a discounted price from the gamblers I know who love cracking open packs and don't want to keep it.
And if this lotus gets banned, I still couldn't care less because it never should have existed in this first place.
At least it's useless in Ulamog, Kozilek, and other colorless decks!
If someone in WotC legal decided that commander jargon in the rules text bypasses the reserve list, that’s big. Vintage moxen commanderized? Any vintage staple you can think of with a variation of “your commander” in the rules text? Now we’re playing with power.
I'm sure I'll get flak for this, but I don't see it. Yes, it spurts out your commander faster, but all I'm seeing is a way for you to get your commander(s) killed far sooner and then you have to wait longer to try and do the thing you wanted in the first place. For some commanders they'll come out and....that's it, they'll just plop down on the table with nothing going on as they came out too early.
Not saying the card is bad,it's not, but it seems like people hoping for the best for this and nine times out of ten you're going to get disappointed when your commander comes down with no protection and gets removed.
WOTC made a card that I don't think they can actually ever ban. The card is legal and playable in 1 format at printing, Commander. That is it. Where as with Oko, or Lurrius or Omnath, if you ban it in like 3-4 formats, there is usually still a place where it is playable, which is usually the way it can be justified for a ban. Imagine buying this set, getting this staple 100+ dollar card, and then having them tell you it is literally a worthless piece of cardboard you won't even be able to sell because it is not legal in any set where it functions?
This is a mistake card, they should have just made it sac for 2 mana or something.
People calling for a ban of this seem to be forgetting that Lion's Eye Diamond exists, and is, frankly, a better card. Everything this card can do, LED can do. And the format hasn't collapsed because of it.
So, question: The rider that the mana can only be used to cast a commander is pretty "sticky", right? For example, if you sack it and have Horizon Stone in play, then at the end of a phase it gets transformed into colorless mana - however, that colorless mana can still only be used to cast a commander. Right?
People calling for a ban of this seem to be forgetting that Lion's Eye Diamond exists, and is, frankly, a better card. Everything this card can do, LED can do. And the format hasn't collapsed because of it.
I think they both have very different uses, despite cosmetic similarities. You are never using LED for a fair purpose. You aren't using LED to power out your commander on turn 1 unless something seriously busted is already going on in your deck.
This card, on the other hand, just randomly appears in your hand some games and makes your commander cost 3 less to cast, which is a nuts unfair advantage even if your deck is totally "fair" otherwise.
Yes, lion's eye diamond does amazing things if you want it to. Same for mana crypt. Those are both $100+ cards. How does the format benefit from printing a new one of these things?
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Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
I'm not gonna buy it and i'm not gonna run it
I don't find it even funny. I facepalmed as soon as I read the card. They can't help it ! They HAVE to print a broken card every set now, and at Mythic of course.
This is baaaaad on so many levels.
Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro
Legacy : Goblins
Still, I really don't like it when they print pushed and hyper format-specific cards like this.
Literally the only decks it won't be broken in are the ones that don't care how good they are in the first place.
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
But if you don't run it, not the biggest deal, especially if you play commander casual.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
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The biggest risk is that it could push decks that actively want and can play this card into busted territories.
Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro
Legacy : Goblins
Depends on which 5 color commander.
Sliver queen? Probably not, youre only paying tax +1 with it
Something like jegantha or whatever? Pays for a huge chunk of the cost
But then it just sits around being mostly useless, a target to be destroyed or even exiled. You can't sac it and play it again and again that turn (which would be possible with any 0-mana artifact otherwise). Is there some special reason you'd like to re-cast Muldrotha? I'm just not seeing it.
that’s about where I am 3 colors and up it’s not hazard and same for non artifact recursion
it cedh decks where the danger comes from the biggest by far is Urza, Lord High Artificer because if you somehow get it out of the yard you can still use it with urza in play since you can simple use Mox sapphire Mode with it
Of course, there will be decks that greatly profit from this card, but when they reach a certain power level, they will automatically move into cEDH or at least "looked down upon on casual tables" territory, where using this card to get your commander out will get you hated out of the game.
People know its broken with Lion's Eye Diamond as you can produce some infinite loops via Muldrotha , but the commander lotus doesnt really accomplish that here.
Its just stupid with Commanders that you put out turn 1 and produce some kind of instant-win immediately.
All the broken cEDH Commanders basically, get a free Ritual and randomly win games if the opponent does not play blue for some kind of Force of Will to stop it.
Its probably less universally broken than a Mana Crypt, but faster to just "ups i win" Commanders.
Certainly with:
Godo, Bandit Warlord
Urza, Lord High Artificer (with all the other broken artifacts its just another drop on the iceberg)
Golos, Tireless Pilgrim (gets it out faster, and activate it sooner)
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
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I hate this card!
Admittedly, I love the art!
However, this card looks better than it is at a first glance.
Personally, I think it's worse than lotus petal, mox amber, mox opal, mox diamond, mana crypt and sol ring, but better (in some decks) than chrome mox, mox tantalite, mana vault, and grim monolith.
Let's be honest...this is only a good draw a few turns into the game if it wasn't in the opening hand, and a dead card in the late-game.
Eventually, time will tell, but I'm not particularly pleased this card was printed.
Real commander players want mana rocks like coalition relic, chromatic lantern, sapphire medallion, mind stone, talisman of progress, and other ramp/color-fixers like dryad of the ilysian grove, not nonsense auto-includes like this and arcane signet which only waste a slot and decrease variance. Command tower is at least flavorful as an auto-include, printed at common, and somewhat more important for the health of the format because the best dual lands are reserved and still legal.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't commander supposed to be (and remain) a fun, social, and more casual format with many possible (and often interesting and unexpected) lines of play? Since when did it become just another format being pushed at the consumer base of hyper-competitive Spikes?
Does Wizards want every competitive Commander deck moving forward to simply be as many ramp mana-rocks as possible and a few select finishers?
Either way, I'll only trade for or buy this abomination of a card at a discounted price from the gamblers I know who love cracking open packs and don't want to keep it.
And if this lotus gets banned, I still couldn't care less because it never should have existed in this first place.
At least it's useless in Ulamog, Kozilek, and other colorless decks!
I used to be a demigod, but now I'm an omnimage
Not saying the card is bad,it's not, but it seems like people hoping for the best for this and nine times out of ten you're going to get disappointed when your commander comes down with no protection and gets removed.
Like I'm all for any card that allows my Seton, Krosan Protector deck to go off turn 1. This is awesome.
Modern: B 8RACK B
EDH: BRU Mishra, Artificer Prodigy BRU, W Kemba, Kha Regent W, B Ghoulcaller Gisa B, BU Oona, Queen of the Fae BU, G Seton, Krosan Protector G, BW Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim BW, R Purphoros, God of the Forge R, UGW Arcades, the Strategist UGW, GW Karametra, God of Harvests GW, GU Edric, Spymaster of Trest GU, UW Grand Arbiter Augustin IV UW, BRW Kaalia of the Vast BRW, BRU Nekusar, the Mindrazer BRU, BGWU Thrasios, Triton Hero/Tymna the Weaver BGWU
This is a mistake card, they should have just made it sac for 2 mana or something.
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I think they both have very different uses, despite cosmetic similarities. You are never using LED for a fair purpose. You aren't using LED to power out your commander on turn 1 unless something seriously busted is already going on in your deck.
This card, on the other hand, just randomly appears in your hand some games and makes your commander cost 3 less to cast, which is a nuts unfair advantage even if your deck is totally "fair" otherwise.
Yes, lion's eye diamond does amazing things if you want it to. Same for mana crypt. Those are both $100+ cards. How does the format benefit from printing a new one of these things?