"We wanted to create a nonbinary character whose entire story didn't revolve around their gender identity
*proceeds to share in detail how Niko's backstory is representative of and inspired by nonbinary gender identity*"
I don't think it's a bad thing, and it doesn't bug me, but I just found it kinda funny.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
"We wanted to create a nonbinary character whose entire story didn't revolve around their gender identity
*proceeds to share in detail how Niko's backstory is representative of and inspired by nonbinary gender identity*"
I don't think it's a bad thing, and it doesn't bug me, but I just found it kinda funny.
In all fairness, the spent a while discussing Niko's story origin and abilities before getting into their gender identity. I wouldn't say it dominated or led the discussion.
EDITED TO ADD: public service announcement there is a "block" feature whereby you can block yourself from seeing anything that user posts. May come in handy for avoiding people who say things like "if you hate Nazis you're as bad as the Nazis!" or "these liberals are so obsessed with race!" or whatnot.
Just because mods keep them on the forums doesn't mean folks have to see/interact with them.
Y'all really sounding like Jussie Smollett with these delusions.
The idea that far-right groups use Norse symbology is a demonstrable fact. The actual Nazis used a bunch of them- the whole idea of the Aryan race was linked with this sort of history.
This isn't a debatable point.
You're saying that the Nazi's abused the Norse culture to generate their own ideas. That's a cultural rape and invalid. The Nazi part also stole a bhuddist symbol as their own. Norse mythology and Nazi beliefs are independent. They're not related, and if you claim they are its only because a group of people bastardized them into something else.
Believe it or not, this happens a lot. Look at ISIS, the KKK, and other groups of extremists. Please do not bring these groups into discussion on these forums. These people are not a representation of actual culture and certainly have nothing to so with the FICTIONAL magic worlds in the card game.
We are strictly talking about the fictional MtG world that they have designed for us.
Y'all really sounding like Jussie Smollett with these delusions.
The idea that far-right groups use Norse symbology is a demonstrable fact. The actual Nazis used a bunch of them- the whole idea of the Aryan race was linked with this sort of history.
This isn't a debatable point.
You're saying that the Nazi's abused the Norse culture to generate their own ideas. That's a cultural rape and invalid. The Nazi part also stole a bhuddist symbol as their own. Norse mythology and Nazi beliefs are independent. They're not related, and if you claim they are its only because a group of people bastardized them into something else.
Believe it or not, this happens a lot. Look at ISIS, the KKK, and other groups of extremists. Please do not bring these groups into discussion on these forums. These people are not a representation of actual culture and certainly have nothing to so with the FICTIONAL magic worlds in the card game.
We are strictly talking about the fictional MtG world that they have designed for us.
I'm confused. Are you advocating that it's okay to use the swastika, because it wasn't originally a Nazi symbol?
Public Mod Note
(bobthefunny):
Is there really a need to nitpick this to start a debate?
"We wanted to create a nonbinary character whose entire story didn't revolve around their gender identity
*proceeds to share in detail how Niko's backstory is representative of and inspired by nonbinary gender identity*"
I don't think it's a bad thing, and it doesn't bug me, but I just found it kinda funny.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/creating-niko-aris-2020-12-14
"When we were developing Niko's origin, we wanted to tell a story that could express the shared experience of non-binary people without focusing on their gender identity. This was partially to ensure Niko was a character that all kinds of people could find relatable, but it was also to ensure that Niko's character was not entirely enveloped by this single aspect of their identity. Our approach was to try and create an origin with a familiar emotional core that we hoped would resonate with non-binary folks."
Emphasis added.
Y'all really sounding like Jussie Smollett with these delusions.
The idea that far-right groups use Norse symbology is a demonstrable fact. The actual Nazis used a bunch of them- the whole idea of the Aryan race was linked with this sort of history.
This isn't a debatable point.
You're saying that the Nazi's abused the Norse culture to generate their own ideas. That's a cultural rape and invalid. The Nazi part also stole a bhuddist symbol as their own. Norse mythology and Nazi beliefs are independent. They're not related, and if you claim they are its only because a group of people bastardized them into something else.
Believe it or not, this happens a lot. Look at ISIS, the KKK, and other groups of extremists. Please do not bring these groups into discussion on these forums. These people are not a representation of actual culture and certainly have nothing to so with the FICTIONAL magic worlds in the card game.
We are strictly talking about the fictional MtG world that they have designed for us.
Your choice of comparison is poor, dare I say the point I'm making is even more obvious in this case than in the original context. As Flossedbeaver already touched upon, when you use the swastika in the modern-day, you have to be mindful of the nazi connection, regardless of the nazi's usage of it being 'invalid' or whatever else you want it call it. Similarly, when you're making a set full of Norse cultural elements, you have to be mindful of the fact that many of those elements have a fascist connection.
The two who are losing their collective composure are both activists. It's not going to merit rational discussion. They'll flag any opposition as 'hate speech' or 'trolling/flaming' and find new reasons to become repetitively triggered. Wizards dropped the ball on the new set and I hope we get something more than just check box planeswalkers and legends.
Y'all really sounding like Jussie Smollett with these delusions.
The idea that far-right groups use Norse symbology is a demonstrable fact. The actual Nazis used a bunch of them- the whole idea of the Aryan race was linked with this sort of history.
This isn't a debatable point.
You're saying that the Nazi's abused the Norse culture to generate their own ideas. That's a cultural rape and invalid. The Nazi part also stole a bhuddist symbol as their own. Norse mythology and Nazi beliefs are independent. They're not related, and if you claim they are its only because a group of people bastardized them into something else.
Believe it or not, this happens a lot. Look at ISIS, the KKK, and other groups of extremists. Please do not bring these groups into discussion on these forums. These people are not a representation of actual culture and certainly have nothing to so with the FICTIONAL magic worlds in the card game.
We are strictly talking about the fictional MtG world that they have designed for us.
Just for clarification purposes if you refer to the tangled cross/svantix as being taken from bhuddism it actually was taken from ancient Greece
Just for clarification purposes if you refer to the tangled cross/svantix as being taken from bhuddism it actually was taken from ancient Greece
To further clarify, because the history of symbols being swiped is long and complicated:
The symbol was found in Turkey, at the supposed site of Troy, and the discovery was linked with similarly ancient symbols found on old German pots, leading to the idea that the symbol must be connected to the Proto-Indo-Europeans and their spread throughout the world, which is why all these other cultures that were still alive were using that same symbol.
Coincidentally, the language of the Proto-Indo-Europeans was referred to as Proto-Indo-Germanic, which combined with feelings of national superiority to create the idea of the world conquering "Aryan," which further morphed into the racism, antisemitism, and evil of the Nazi Party.
The symbol itself is six lines. It is not difficult to imagine multiple cultures coming up with it at the same time. Oldest evidence of it is from Ukraine, then Bulgaria, then India, and all loooooong before the Hellenistic period of Greece.
Y'all really sounding like Jussie Smollett with these delusions.
The idea that far-right groups use Norse symbology is a demonstrable fact. The actual Nazis used a bunch of them- the whole idea of the Aryan race was linked with this sort of history.
This isn't a debatable point.
You're saying that the Nazi's abused the Norse culture to generate their own ideas. That's a cultural rape and invalid. The Nazi part also stole a bhuddist symbol as their own. Norse mythology and Nazi beliefs are independent. They're not related, and if you claim they are its only because a group of people bastardized them into something else.
Believe it or not, this happens a lot. Look at ISIS, the KKK, and other groups of extremists. Please do not bring these groups into discussion on these forums. These people are not a representation of actual culture and certainly have nothing to so with the FICTIONAL magic worlds in the card game.
We are strictly talking about the fictional MtG world that they have designed for us.
Your choice of comparison is poor, dare I say the point I'm making is even more obvious in this case than in the original context. As Flossedbeaver already touched upon, when you use the swastika in the modern-day, you have to be mindful of the nazi connection, regardless of the nazi's usage of it being 'invalid' or whatever else you want it call it. Similarly, when you're making a set full of Norse cultural elements, you have to be mindful of the fact that many of those elements have a fascist connection.
I used this comparison because its an easy one for everyone to see. I'm not advocating the use of the Swastika. I'm saying people do need to separate their ideas a bit. There are a lot of gruesome or non-PG ideas present in the fictionalized worlds in MTG that people have managed to forget. There are people complaining that this set is inherently racist from the start because of it being a Scandinavian themed world, and the Scandinavians have ties with Nazis. That's false information. I think wizards is being mindful of that, in their fictional world.
I used this comparison because its an easy one for everyone to see. I'm not advocating the use of the Swastika. I'm saying people do need to separate their ideas a bit. There are a lot of gruesome or non-PG ideas present in the fictionalized worlds in MTG that people have managed to forget. There are people complaining that this set is inherently racist from the start because of it being a Scandinavian themed world, and the Scandinavians have ties with Nazis. That's false information. I think wizards is being mindful of that, in their fictional world.
I believe that's a misinterpretation of what was actually said. I believe that the intent from those bringing up the connection between Norse Mythology and Nazi Ideology is that the set likely excited a lot of the vile people who see Norse Mythology as an example or extensions of their vile beliefs, and that the specific inclusion of Kaya and Niko was a blow to that excitement because...well, they're Nazis.
There are people complaining that this set is inherently racist from the start because of it being a Scandinavian themed world, and the Scandinavians have ties with Nazis. That's false information. I think wizards is being mindful of that, in their fictional world.
I don't think anyone said that actually. Criticism of something you like may feel personal and be internalized as something else but I don't think anyone is making that claim other than you. Saying that WotC needs to be careful with how they handle this set because it may appeal to racists is not anywhere close to saying Scandanavia world = inherently racist and therefore bad.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Protection from reason (Decadent_Creed can't be blocked, targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by reason.)
There are people complaining that this set is inherently racist from the start because of it being a Scandinavian themed world, and the Scandinavians have ties with Nazis. That's false information. I think wizards is being mindful of that, in their fictional world.
I don't think anyone said that actually. Criticism of something you like may feel personal and be internalized as something else but I don't think anyone is making that claim other than you. Saying that WotC needs to be careful with how they handle this set because it may appeal to racists is not anywhere close to saying Scandanavia world = inherently racist and therefore bad.
Exactly. The confusion stems from misinterpreting the intent of the people warning that nazis have often misused nordic and scandinavian imagery. It's not about saying that scandinavic world equals nazi imagery and is therefore bad. It's just that Wizards has to be careful (and it seems they were) not to use this nazi-warped depictions of it and has to also be careful about giving people who still want to misuse scandinavian imagery more fodder for their propaganda. The inclusion of Teysa and Niko in this set especially was a nice touch therefore in my opinion and perhaps not without that in mind as well. I love me some rugged and beefy vikings (as well as elfs apparently), norse mythology and multiple realms. Kaldheim seems to deliver on that front, and I don't feel like the planeswalkers are any more intrusive than they were in the last couple of sets. But the vitriol against them is much much higher for some reason and that does come across as suspicious (especially when this vitriol is directed almost exclusively at Niko and Teysa, not against Tibalt and my new favorite elf planeswalker).
I used this comparison because its an easy one for everyone to see. I'm not advocating the use of the Swastika. I'm saying people do need to separate their ideas a bit. There are a lot of gruesome or non-PG ideas present in the fictionalized worlds in MTG that people have managed to forget.
I think we very much agree that people need to separate their ideas a bit, but the problem is that some people won't, and we're only pointing out that those people are the ones already appropriating Norse / Scandinavian imagery toward their idolization of Nazis. It ultimately doesn't matter how benign something was originally (the 'OK' hand gesture, Hawaiian shirts) if enough bad people bend them towards nefarious purposes.
There are people complaining that this set is inherently racist from the start because of it being a Scandinavian themed world, and the Scandinavians have ties with Nazis. That's false information. I think wizards is being mindful of that, in their fictional world.
That sounds a bit backwards, and I haven't seen anyone doing it here. Again, though, it really doesn't matter if 'Scandinavians have ties with Nazis' or 'Nazis have ties with Scandinavians'; the relationship is still there, clear as day, and harmful.
I used this comparison because its an easy one for everyone to see. I'm not advocating the use of the Swastika. I'm saying people do need to separate their ideas a bit. There are a lot of gruesome or non-PG ideas present in the fictionalized worlds in MTG that people have managed to forget.
I think we very much agree that people need to separate their ideas a bit, but the problem is that some people won't, and we're only pointing out that those people are the ones already appropriating Norse / Scandinavian imagery toward their idolization of Nazis. It ultimately doesn't matter how benign something was originally (the 'OK' hand gesture, Hawaiian shirts) if enough bad people bend them towards nefarious purposes.
There are people complaining that this set is inherently racist from the start because of it being a Scandinavian themed world, and the Scandinavians have ties with Nazis. That's false information. I think wizards is being mindful of that, in their fictional world.
That sounds a bit backwards, and I haven't seen anyone doing it here. Again, though, it really doesn't matter if 'Scandinavians have ties with Nazis' or 'Nazis have ties with Scandinavians'; the relationship is still there, clear as day, and harmful.
I have seen that a lot on here, as well as reddit.
I'm not sure why this is such an issue. Can't see how this is worse than Ixalan in terms of potential touchy subjects applied to real world history.
I have seen that a lot on here, as well as reddit.
I'm not sure why this is such an issue. Can't see how this is worse than Ixalan in terms of potential touchy subjects applied to real world history.
Again, I think that might be a misinterpretation of what is intended, and definitely what's been said here. This is a complicated topic, it's difficult to express all the elements of it, and frankly, there's a lot of people (myself included) who are bad at communicating what they mean.
As for why it might be touchier, one of those groups is a little more recent and relevant. We don't have (as many) people marching around saying that the Conquistadors were right and chanting "Natives will not replace us."
I have seen that a lot on here, as well as reddit.
I'm not sure why this is such an issue. Can't see how this is worse than Ixalan in terms of potential touchy subjects applied to real world history.
Again, I think that might be a misinterpretation of what is intended, and definitely what's been said here. This is a complicated topic, it's difficult to express all the elements of it, and frankly, there's a lot of people (myself included) who are bad at communicating what they mean.
As for why it might be touchier, one of those groups is a little more recent and relevant. We don't have (as many) people marching around saying that the Conquistadors were right and chanting "Natives will not replace us."
No, but there is a lot of talk about white people being "colonizers", and its not like people have forgotten what happened back then. It was typically pretty bad stuff. Sure Nazi's are more recent, but we are still talking about Vikings (who were not Nazi's) vs actual conquistadors killing natives and stealing from them.
All in all this controversy is stupid and I am happy that Wizards is trying to add in as many characters from across the spectrum to make this not come off as many people have feared. They're treading lightly, and as someone from a underrepresented group I am excited to see more of this in future sets.
Man, I miss the days when people would debate if the Vikings would have horns on their helmets. At least then it was more relevant to the card game and far less... hateful.
Again, I think that might be a misinterpretation of what is intended, and definitely what's been said here. This is a complicated topic, it's difficult to express all the elements of it, and frankly, there's a lot of people (myself included) who are bad at communicating what they mean.
As for why it might be touchier, one of those groups is a little more recent and relevant. We don't have (as many) people marching around saying that the Conquistadors were right and chanting "Natives will not replace us."
I think you're communicating very well, and I agree 100%.
No, but there is a lot of talk about white people being "colonizers", and its not like people have forgotten what happened back then. It was typically pretty bad stuff. Sure Nazi's are more recent, but we are still talking about Vikings (who were not Nazi's) vs actual conquistadors killing natives and stealing from them.
All in all this controversy is stupid and I am happy that Wizards is trying to add in as many characters from across the spectrum to make this not come off as many people have feared. They're treading lightly, and as someone from a underrepresented group I am excited to see more of this in future sets.
Man, I miss the days when people would debate if the Vikings would have horns on their helmets. At least then it was more relevant to the card game and far less... hateful.
If recent history has taught us anything (I'm looking at you, 75 million Americans), it's that we should be extremely wary of the past. Seventy years ago isn't too far away to have forgotten some hard lessons learned; the populist movements of the early 20th century, or the nationalist movements of the late 19th century are also not so far away in the grand scheme of things. There's something very striking - and very scary - about just how close we are to repeating those mistakes, and I feel the consequences we might incur as a society outweigh the inconvenience of bringing up those topics on a fantasy message board.
But if all you want to do is talk about horned helmets, by all means, lead by example. I'm sure many others will be happy to follow suit.
The two who are losing their collective composure are both activists. It's not going to merit rational discussion. They'll flag any opposition as 'hate speech' or 'trolling/flaming' and find new reasons to become repetitively triggered. Wizards dropped the ball on the new set and I hope we get something more than just check box planeswalkers and legends.
Never has a comment been more true on this site, and why I just don't care to make comments anymore myself really.
The two who are losing their collective composure are both activists. It's not going to merit rational discussion. They'll flag any opposition as 'hate speech' or 'trolling/flaming' and find new reasons to become repetitively triggered. Wizards dropped the ball on the new set and I hope we get something more than just check box planeswalkers and legends.
You know, it's very kind of you to flatter me by calling me an activist. Here I thought I was just saying some ***** online. I'm glad my words have had such an impact on some people to warrant this praise.
The two who are losing their collective composure are both activists. It's not going to merit rational discussion. They'll flag any opposition as 'hate speech' or 'trolling/flaming' and find new reasons to become repetitively triggered. Wizards dropped the ball on the new set and I hope we get something more than just check box planeswalkers and legends.
Never has a comment been more true on this site, and why I just don't care to make comments anymore myself really.
#bringbackteresenielsen
EDH DECKS
AMERICAN CONTROL
blue mana red mana white mana -Kykar, Wind's Fury- white mana red mana blue mana
Critisim breeds growth. If you are unable to accept that, then you are a part of the problem.
"I was born in the wrong generation"
-Paul Joseph Watson
Your signature says alot more about the irony of that statement than any response could.
So by flossed beaver's insane logic marvel movies featuring Thor are nothing more than Nazi propaganda.
What a load of bull.
That's not what they said at all but you're going to be mad about something made up either way so who are any of us to interfere? It's pretty easy to learn that white supremacist groups have adopted iconography from Norse culture and like to fantasize about it as some sort of ideal white ethnostate. Being careful not to appeal to some of the worst people in society shouldn't be a controversial point, yet here we are.
Ironically, people arguing that Kaya shouldn't be in the set because she's black or Niko shouldn't be in the set because they're nonbinary are arguing that this plane should be a fantasy white ethnostate. It's pretty uncool to say the least.
Personally I'm happy to see new, diverse and interesting characters interacting with new, diverse and interesting worlds. I know that's a hot take for some of the people on this board but it really shouldn't be.
Actually no, that is literally what they are saying, that all norse mythology is associated with Nazism.
Also, your view is American centric. Just because soom kook groups in US have adopted such things doesn't mean that anyone else in the world shares that view. Stop thinking of only US please.
*proceeds to share in detail how Niko's backstory is representative of and inspired by nonbinary gender identity*"
I don't think it's a bad thing, and it doesn't bug me, but I just found it kinda funny.
In all fairness, the spent a while discussing Niko's story origin and abilities before getting into their gender identity. I wouldn't say it dominated or led the discussion.
EDITED TO ADD: public service announcement there is a "block" feature whereby you can block yourself from seeing anything that user posts. May come in handy for avoiding people who say things like "if you hate Nazis you're as bad as the Nazis!" or "these liberals are so obsessed with race!" or whatnot.
Just because mods keep them on the forums doesn't mean folks have to see/interact with them.
You're saying that the Nazi's abused the Norse culture to generate their own ideas. That's a cultural rape and invalid. The Nazi part also stole a bhuddist symbol as their own. Norse mythology and Nazi beliefs are independent. They're not related, and if you claim they are its only because a group of people bastardized them into something else.
Believe it or not, this happens a lot. Look at ISIS, the KKK, and other groups of extremists. Please do not bring these groups into discussion on these forums. These people are not a representation of actual culture and certainly have nothing to so with the FICTIONAL magic worlds in the card game.
We are strictly talking about the fictional MtG world that they have designed for us.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
I'm confused. Are you advocating that it's okay to use the swastika, because it wasn't originally a Nazi symbol?
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/creating-niko-aris-2020-12-14
"When we were developing Niko's origin, we wanted to tell a story that could express the shared experience of non-binary people without focusing on their gender identity. This was partially to ensure Niko was a character that all kinds of people could find relatable, but it was also to ensure that Niko's character was not entirely enveloped by this single aspect of their identity. Our approach was to try and create an origin with a familiar emotional core that we hoped would resonate with non-binary folks."
Emphasis added.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Your choice of comparison is poor, dare I say the point I'm making is even more obvious in this case than in the original context. As Flossedbeaver already touched upon, when you use the swastika in the modern-day, you have to be mindful of the nazi connection, regardless of the nazi's usage of it being 'invalid' or whatever else you want it call it. Similarly, when you're making a set full of Norse cultural elements, you have to be mindful of the fact that many of those elements have a fascist connection.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Just for clarification purposes if you refer to the tangled cross/svantix as being taken from bhuddism it actually was taken from ancient Greece
To further clarify, because the history of symbols being swiped is long and complicated:
The symbol was found in Turkey, at the supposed site of Troy, and the discovery was linked with similarly ancient symbols found on old German pots, leading to the idea that the symbol must be connected to the Proto-Indo-Europeans and their spread throughout the world, which is why all these other cultures that were still alive were using that same symbol.
Coincidentally, the language of the Proto-Indo-Europeans was referred to as Proto-Indo-Germanic, which combined with feelings of national superiority to create the idea of the world conquering "Aryan," which further morphed into the racism, antisemitism, and evil of the Nazi Party.
The symbol itself is six lines. It is not difficult to imagine multiple cultures coming up with it at the same time. Oldest evidence of it is from Ukraine, then Bulgaria, then India, and all loooooong before the Hellenistic period of Greece.
I used this comparison because its an easy one for everyone to see. I'm not advocating the use of the Swastika. I'm saying people do need to separate their ideas a bit. There are a lot of gruesome or non-PG ideas present in the fictionalized worlds in MTG that people have managed to forget. There are people complaining that this set is inherently racist from the start because of it being a Scandinavian themed world, and the Scandinavians have ties with Nazis. That's false information. I think wizards is being mindful of that, in their fictional world.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
I believe that's a misinterpretation of what was actually said. I believe that the intent from those bringing up the connection between Norse Mythology and Nazi Ideology is that the set likely excited a lot of the vile people who see Norse Mythology as an example or extensions of their vile beliefs, and that the specific inclusion of Kaya and Niko was a blow to that excitement because...well, they're Nazis.
I don't think anyone said that actually. Criticism of something you like may feel personal and be internalized as something else but I don't think anyone is making that claim other than you. Saying that WotC needs to be careful with how they handle this set because it may appeal to racists is not anywhere close to saying Scandanavia world = inherently racist and therefore bad.
Exactly. The confusion stems from misinterpreting the intent of the people warning that nazis have often misused nordic and scandinavian imagery. It's not about saying that scandinavic world equals nazi imagery and is therefore bad. It's just that Wizards has to be careful (and it seems they were) not to use this nazi-warped depictions of it and has to also be careful about giving people who still want to misuse scandinavian imagery more fodder for their propaganda. The inclusion of Teysa and Niko in this set especially was a nice touch therefore in my opinion and perhaps not without that in mind as well. I love me some rugged and beefy vikings (as well as elfs apparently), norse mythology and multiple realms. Kaldheim seems to deliver on that front, and I don't feel like the planeswalkers are any more intrusive than they were in the last couple of sets. But the vitriol against them is much much higher for some reason and that does come across as suspicious (especially when this vitriol is directed almost exclusively at Niko and Teysa, not against Tibalt and my new favorite elf planeswalker).
I think we very much agree that people need to separate their ideas a bit, but the problem is that some people won't, and we're only pointing out that those people are the ones already appropriating Norse / Scandinavian imagery toward their idolization of Nazis. It ultimately doesn't matter how benign something was originally (the 'OK' hand gesture, Hawaiian shirts) if enough bad people bend them towards nefarious purposes.
That sounds a bit backwards, and I haven't seen anyone doing it here. Again, though, it really doesn't matter if 'Scandinavians have ties with Nazis' or 'Nazis have ties with Scandinavians'; the relationship is still there, clear as day, and harmful.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I have seen that a lot on here, as well as reddit.
I'm not sure why this is such an issue. Can't see how this is worse than Ixalan in terms of potential touchy subjects applied to real world history.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Again, I think that might be a misinterpretation of what is intended, and definitely what's been said here. This is a complicated topic, it's difficult to express all the elements of it, and frankly, there's a lot of people (myself included) who are bad at communicating what they mean.
As for why it might be touchier, one of those groups is a little more recent and relevant. We don't have (as many) people marching around saying that the Conquistadors were right and chanting "Natives will not replace us."
No, but there is a lot of talk about white people being "colonizers", and its not like people have forgotten what happened back then. It was typically pretty bad stuff. Sure Nazi's are more recent, but we are still talking about Vikings (who were not Nazi's) vs actual conquistadors killing natives and stealing from them.
All in all this controversy is stupid and I am happy that Wizards is trying to add in as many characters from across the spectrum to make this not come off as many people have feared. They're treading lightly, and as someone from a underrepresented group I am excited to see more of this in future sets.
Man, I miss the days when people would debate if the Vikings would have horns on their helmets. At least then it was more relevant to the card game and far less... hateful.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
I think you're communicating very well, and I agree 100%.
If recent history has taught us anything (I'm looking at you, 75 million Americans), it's that we should be extremely wary of the past. Seventy years ago isn't too far away to have forgotten some hard lessons learned; the populist movements of the early 20th century, or the nationalist movements of the late 19th century are also not so far away in the grand scheme of things. There's something very striking - and very scary - about just how close we are to repeating those mistakes, and I feel the consequences we might incur as a society outweigh the inconvenience of bringing up those topics on a fantasy message board.
But if all you want to do is talk about horned helmets, by all means, lead by example. I'm sure many others will be happy to follow suit.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Never has a comment been more true on this site, and why I just don't care to make comments anymore myself really.
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
You know, it's very kind of you to flatter me by calling me an activist. Here I thought I was just saying some ***** online. I'm glad my words have had such an impact on some people to warrant this praise.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Your signature says alot more about the irony of that statement than any response could.
What a load of bull.
That's not what they said at all but you're going to be mad about something made up either way so who are any of us to interfere? It's pretty easy to learn that white supremacist groups have adopted iconography from Norse culture and like to fantasize about it as some sort of ideal white ethnostate. Being careful not to appeal to some of the worst people in society shouldn't be a controversial point, yet here we are.
Ironically, people arguing that Kaya shouldn't be in the set because she's black or Niko shouldn't be in the set because they're nonbinary are arguing that this plane should be a fantasy white ethnostate. It's pretty uncool to say the least.
Personally I'm happy to see new, diverse and interesting characters interacting with new, diverse and interesting worlds. I know that's a hot take for some of the people on this board but it really shouldn't be.
Also, your view is American centric. Just because soom kook groups in US have adopted such things doesn't mean that anyone else in the world shares that view. Stop thinking of only US please.