Bad ideas. Firstly, adding Tron would make your mana base unreliable, given all the double colored costs in the deck. Secondly, why run Invoke the Firemind at all? It's another expensive spell, and is hardly cost-efficient. If you're aiming to get lots of mana, why not just run Blaze instead?
Ok, i love niv mizzet and am going to make a similar deck to this once Gp is out, but i really love this combo, sicnce they are good on their own, they are really good just with the combo, and they are SUPER good with niv-mizzet.
Basically, Plagiarize on its own skips you opponents draw and replaces itself, box on its own searches through your deck, together, they make you oppoenent discard their hand and you draw a bunch of cards before they draw, and with niv, its tons of damage plus the card drawing+discard.
i really love that one, even tho i dont like plagiarize too much, it is playable on its own tho
puzzle box is good with mizzet im not sold on plagiarize yet..
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i really love that one, even tho i dont like plagiarize too much, it is playable on its own tho
puzzle box is good with mizzet im not sold on plagiarize yet..
I dunno, i think plagiarize is pretty good, It's a tad overcosted IMO, but i dont think they would let it see print at :2mana::symu:. I think its good becuase its card advantage (-card from hand, +1 oppoenent losing card, +1 card in hand) and in addition to stopping their first draw, if they are say playing any other draw spell like compulsive research, tidings, ideas unbound, or whatever, it stops them from playing them as well. Also, if they are playing instant draw like jushi or azami or whatever, you can play it in response.
And all of that is just on its own, not even taking into account
A. Its synergy with Niv-Mizzet
B. The combo
and
C. The COMBO's synergy with Niv-Mizzet
Well, Plagiarize has only limited synergy with Niv. Without the Box or your opponent playing card draw, it's only 1 more card for Niv.
I do like the combo, but Plagiarize is not good on its own in most matchups. Furthermore, if you're playing a deck that has multiple copies of Niv, Mindmoil, Puzzle Box, and Plagiarize, you're really stretching your mana.
Having the Mindmoil, Box, and Plagiarize in the same deck would make the deck into a Combo-like deck and the decks only win condition would be Niv and having the deck be based on a creature for the win would make the deck to vunerable. The deck should go mor along the lines of a Control deck that takes control of the game then wins with Niv.
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What you just described contradicts itself. Basically, the only thing you changed was combo to control. Your win condition is still just niv. Anyways, i suggest gelectrode and meloku as alternate win condiitions.
But if you had a deck that was devoted to Niv, via Mindmoil, Box, and Plagriaze. So if for instance if Niv gets Cranial Extraction. then you have a bunch cards that dont really help your deck. And in a control deck you could protect your Niv and if the Niv does get Extracted then you dont have a bunch of dead cards or situational cards.
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Mindmoil, admittedly is rather useless without niv, but the box and plagiarize are still a potent combo even without niv. And if niv gets extracted, you use the other aforementioned win conditions. Also, if you are jsut using a control deck without any cards that compelement niv mizzet, why not just use some other big flying fatties like the kamigawa dragons? Niv is only really effective if you abuse him.
The idea behind this deck is simple: control the board with counter and burn, then get the pieces together for 1)either the combo, which costs 3RRR or 2) get one of you're alternate win conditions out. A combo deck that's still reliable.
You just sidestepped the whole point of the deck...to win using niv-Mizzet and draw.
i saw someone posting putting certain cards like tefreis Puzzle box and others will make the deck combo like, Izzet are a combo guild hence cards like izzet guildmage and stitch in time are going to printed. You might as well acept that if u play niv mizzet its probably gonna be combo so might as well go all out.
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who is the one that is supposed to watch the one that is supposed to watch the other one?
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Having the Mindmoil, Box, and Plagiarize in the same deck would make the deck into a Combo-like deck and the decks only win condition would be Niv and having the deck be based on a creature for the win would make the deck to vunerable. The deck should go mor along the lines of a Control deck that takes control of the game then wins with Niv.
Quote from J Rock »
But if you had a deck that was devoted to Niv, via Mindmoil, Box, and Plagriaze. So if for instance if Niv gets Cranial Extraction. then you have a bunch cards that dont really help your deck. And in a control deck you could protect your Niv and if the Niv does get Extracted then you dont have a bunch of dead cards or situational cards.
You're win condition could Blaze for all it matters. If it gets extracted, its extracted. It being a creature has nothing to do with it. If Blaze gets extracted, then your tron can sit there and look ugly alllll daaaay long, You still wind up with cards that don't help you. That is why you should try to put redundancy in your decks; alternate-wins that might not operate at tip-top shape compared to the intended method, but still have synergy with it.
[/rant]
Anyway, back to Mr. Niv. If you change over to a more blue-based deck, I would suggest Freed from the Real, but you seem fairly into the red side. Any real use for Reroute? Cantrips seem like a fairly good idea, but with little practical application. Possibly Smash in the sideboard, for against Jitte and others...
Lightster all I am saying that if you devote alot of cards that only has synergy with NIv and no other cards then you will have alot of dead cards. and the fact that Niv is a creature and Blaze is a Sorc. has alot to do with it because Blaze is one time cast and Niv needs to be in play a couple of turns, so it is alot more vulnerable. But the Tron was just an idea, that was the whole point of the initial post was to throw out ideas.
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Desp. ritual can be spliced onto other things as well -
Splice onto reach through mists- draw your library, ping to death with niv-mizzet.
Splice desp. ritual onto psychic puppetry - untap your niz mizzet or gelectrode endlessly for the win.
Plus, with all the cheap u/r arcane, you can ping to death with gelectrode/niv-mizzet in a few turns anyway - keep throwing reach through mists out there along with psychic puppetry and keep the pings flying. Even with no desp. ritual or guildmage in hand or in play, you can have good synergy throwing spliced glacial ray silliness with multiple pings from gelectrode.
Desp. ritual can be spliced onto other things as well -
Splice onto reach through mists- draw your library, ping to death with niv-mizzet.
Splice desp. ritual onto psychic puppetry - untap your niz mizzet or gelectrode endlessly for the win.
Plus, with all the cheap u/r arcane, you can ping to death with gelectrode/niv-mizzet in a few turns anyway - keep throwing reach through mists out there along with psychic puppetry and keep the pings flying. Even with no desp. ritual or guildmage in hand or in play, you can have good synergy throwing spliced glacial ray silliness with multiple pings from gelectrode.
sorry, doesnt work with instants, guildmage's copy instant ability uses blue, and desperate ritual produces red..
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
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Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
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claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
tops proved to be fine once when i got top + mindmoil out i could play top, respond to mindmoil's effect by putting top on top of ur library then drawing it with mindmoil. effectively 1; deal X damage divided between any number of target creatures and players, where X is the number of cards in your hand
This doesnt work, because the mind moil trigger resolves before the top comes into play so you cant respond to it by tapping the top. It does work with two tops though.
and as another note, you can imprint a Desperate Ritual onto a Ideas Unbound, then copy it a bunch of times, with Niv there it kills stuff. Oh and I hope we all know that gelectrode doesnt untap from the guildmage's ability.
well thats about all i had to say, overall i think it should make a decent deck
I was actually thinking of Running GRU with Niv-Mizzet, TRade Routes and Loam... the green is really for mana accel fixing and off handedly Loam...
The deck could run 2 sets of Tron for the simple fact of colorless to assist in shenigans... with signets tron isnot that bad...
You could run Through the breach to get Niv into play faster.. If you set up with Moil on the table you could possible win when you play him...
Honestly, I think the best way to run this would be Control First then combo. Use the hondens, Mikokoro maybe Howling Mine with counters and Niv. I'd have mindmoil in against decks with little disruption...
Also We have a few more cards to see from the Izzet so you never know what we may end up with...
I concur when you build a deck around a Card, its usually best to start by focusing on that card...
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Plagiarize+Teferi's Puzzle Box
Basically, Plagiarize on its own skips you opponents draw and replaces itself, box on its own searches through your deck, together, they make you oppoenent discard their hand and you draw a bunch of cards before they draw, and with niv, its tons of damage plus the card drawing+discard.
i really love that one, even tho i dont like plagiarize too much, it is playable on its own tho
puzzle box is good with mizzet im not sold on plagiarize yet..
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Thanks Gary for the Avatar and thanks Topher for the Banner at Aether
Just because it's based on Niv doesn't mean you play suboptimally. There is absolutely no reason to play Invoke in this deck.
And yes, if you ran Tron, it would be a different deck (i.e. not based on Niv). So why did you suggest it?
I dunno, i think plagiarize is pretty good, It's a tad overcosted IMO, but i dont think they would let it see print at :2mana::symu:. I think its good becuase its card advantage (-card from hand, +1 oppoenent losing card, +1 card in hand) and in addition to stopping their first draw, if they are say playing any other draw spell like compulsive research, tidings, ideas unbound, or whatever, it stops them from playing them as well. Also, if they are playing instant draw like jushi or azami or whatever, you can play it in response.
And all of that is just on its own, not even taking into account
A. Its synergy with Niv-Mizzet
B. The combo
and
C. The COMBO's synergy with Niv-Mizzet
I do like the combo, but Plagiarize is not good on its own in most matchups. Furthermore, if you're playing a deck that has multiple copies of Niv, Mindmoil, Puzzle Box, and Plagiarize, you're really stretching your mana.
Thanks Gary for the Avatar and thanks Topher for the Banner at Aether
Thanks Gary for the Avatar and thanks Topher for the Banner at Aether
You just sidestepped the whole point of the deck...to win using niv-Mizzet and draw.
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
-a great mind
Awesome banner by R & Doom
You're win condition could Blaze for all it matters. If it gets extracted, its extracted. It being a creature has nothing to do with it. If Blaze gets extracted, then your tron can sit there and look ugly alllll daaaay long, You still wind up with cards that don't help you. That is why you should try to put redundancy in your decks; alternate-wins that might not operate at tip-top shape compared to the intended method, but still have synergy with it.
[/rant]
Anyway, back to Mr. Niv. If you change over to a more blue-based deck, I would suggest Freed from the Real, but you seem fairly into the red side. Any real use for Reroute? Cantrips seem like a fairly good idea, but with little practical application. Possibly Smash in the sideboard, for against Jitte and others...
Extendo
Thanks Gary for the Avatar and thanks Topher for the Banner at Aether
2x Niv-Mizzet the Firemind
2x Meloku the Clouded Mirror
3x Gelectrode
Enchantments
4x Mindmoil
Spells
4x Electrolyze
4x Shock
4x Volcanic Hammer
4x Mana Leak
4x Hinder
3x Remand
4x Telling Time
4x Steam Vents
4x Shivan Reef
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
6x Mountain
6x Island
Desp. ritual can be spliced onto other things as well -
Splice onto reach through mists- draw your library, ping to death with niv-mizzet.
Splice desp. ritual onto psychic puppetry - untap your niz mizzet or gelectrode endlessly for the win.
Plus, with all the cheap u/r arcane, you can ping to death with gelectrode/niv-mizzet in a few turns anyway - keep throwing reach through mists out there along with psychic puppetry and keep the pings flying. Even with no desp. ritual or guildmage in hand or in play, you can have good synergy throwing spliced glacial ray silliness with multiple pings from gelectrode.
sorry, doesnt work with instants, guildmage's copy instant ability uses blue, and desperate ritual produces red..
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Dang! forgot (even though that's been covered a million times.)
Oh well, nevermind....
I gotta point out a play error on your part:
This doesnt work, because the mind moil trigger resolves before the top comes into play so you cant respond to it by tapping the top. It does work with two tops though.
and as another note, you can imprint a Desperate Ritual onto a Ideas Unbound, then copy it a bunch of times, with Niv there it kills stuff. Oh and I hope we all know that gelectrode doesnt untap from the guildmage's ability.
well thats about all i had to say, overall i think it should make a decent deck
The deck could run 2 sets of Tron for the simple fact of colorless to assist in shenigans... with signets tron isnot that bad...
You could run Through the breach to get Niv into play faster.. If you set up with Moil on the table you could possible win when you play him...
Honestly, I think the best way to run this would be Control First then combo. Use the hondens, Mikokoro maybe Howling Mine with counters and Niv. I'd have mindmoil in against decks with little disruption...
Also We have a few more cards to see from the Izzet so you never know what we may end up with...
I concur when you build a deck around a Card, its usually best to start by focusing on that card...
"One Day Reason and Sanity will rule the World....."
"Unfortunately that day will be the day after all us Homo Sapiens explode in fiery balls of death from a Thermonuclear Hell..."
I need a new avvie and sig banner...