let's be realistic here - all of the colours are getting love.
the difference is that not every 'piece of love' can be played as effectively as the next in tournament magic, because of the metagames, trends and sometimes the other tools available in the colours themselves. tournament quality decks are usually "good at everything, master of none" affairs where people have to have answers to everything, and do so with consistency. this means that spells with high coloured-mana requirements often get ignored and splashability/utility tends to be king.
in casual magic, where you don't have to design a deck to be able to defeat upwards of a hundred other decks with only minor sideboard changes (accepting that some decks can have significant variation between builds), you find that the awesome cards in other colours get played a lot more, and to great effect.
for example, black has some of the most abusive spells at the moment, but some are surprisingly difficult to play because they have a heavy B requirement and, generally speaking, black works best when combined with another colour.
just blanket-stating that blue is getting all the love is kind of lame... right?
Blue and black are shadows of their former brokeness.
If anything red got a lot of strong cards reprinted and green got huge boost as a color with Zendikar set - all those valakut, scapeshift and 12-post decks.
I like their new experiment with blue and all those illusions and zombies. Maybe we'll have some aggresive blue deck.
Unless you play eternal that is )) Good luck playing anything non-blue then.
Saying blue is overpowered or that it gets the best cards because it used to, is a fallacy. That's like how certain insensitive people were saying that Japan deserved to be struck by a tidal wave because of Pearl Harbor. It's completely ridiculous. You can't evaluate current trends using outdated data, you must use current data. In this case: Standard. Saying "blue doesn't dominate standard, therefore blue is weak," is a valid argument. If blue were strong it would be dominating standard. there would at least be a competitive primarily blue deck. There isn't, and there hasn't been for years.
Oh, and I think Mentor of the Meek will have a much bigger presence than snapcaster mage.
My complaining is baseless? This thread is about blue getting all of the best cards, and I have a legitimate point. If you don't think Snapcaster is going to have any effect on any format, be my guest and give me a reason why. This thread wasn't even really about this particular card, it was about blue in general getting all of the best cards.
Actually this thread is about you vs the forum. Make an argument people don't agree with, and rather than having your say and the forum debate the topic, you've made it a jihad to convince everyone that blue is taking over the format. I really don't think you're convincing anyone and the fear mongering you're trying to generate is getting old and would only work on children.
In fact I would argue that for the standard format Green has gotten the most love. ie Cards that bends the rules of magic. It has the most tutors, (Green's Sun's Zenith), Birthingpod, the best Titan land tutor, 2 new planeswalkers, both with tutoring ability, one with card drawing, both with the ability to protect themselves through token generation, mana generation advantages. Ability to cheat out more mana. Eldrazi aren't playable unless you're playing green.
If you think that a card should have been another colour, you can just splash for it.
...
Hmm...I should re-word that, maybe? "This guy would have been awesome in red, but we have so much in the way of land searching, and dual lands, and fetchlands, that I don't think it's actually that difficult to splash a color these days, and lord knows Blue is the color to splash. It's too bad he isn't in Red, but we have plenty of other cards to wait for, and hopefully we'll see a Red card to trump this, as they usually give Red that kind of stuff."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Getting Back into the swing of MTGS. Bear with me folks~
Actually this thread is about you vs the forum. Make an argument people don't agree with, and rather than having your say and the forum debate the topic, you've made it a jihad to convince everyone that blue is taking over the format. I really don't think you're convincing anyone and the fear mongering you're trying to generate is getting old and would only work on children.
In fact I would argue that for the standard format Green has gotten the most love. ie Cards that bends the rules of magic. It has the most tutors, (Green's Sun's Zenith), Birthingpod, the best Titan land tutor, 2 new planeswalkers, both with tutoring ability, one with card drawing, both with the ability to protect themselves through token generation, mana generation advantages. Ability to cheat out more mana. Eldrazi aren't playable unless you're playing green.
I don't expect you to have read 10 pages of debating, but a good chunk of that was people agreeing that blue does, indeed, get the best cards. Also, I never said anything about blue "taking over the format." I'm not talking about standard.
Update: In succinct, I am complaining about how pathetic the dev team is. Yes, this card is perfectly balanced in standard, but I'm not talking about standard. I'm talking about how cards affect the entire game, including Vintage and Legacy. This card could have been red and it would've been fine. It would've added a new element to red decks in eternal formats, giving red an actually decent mechanic instead of increasing the already excessive number of playable blue cards. The reason they didn't make it red? Probably because they don't care about Vintage/Legacy, and would love for it to die and have all players flock to a format where they can reprint cards (Modern).
this post indicates that this thread doesn't belong to NCD as it's just a pointless general rant about Ancestral Recall and Time Walk.
It has nothing to do with the spoiled cards.
Exactly! Tell that to the mod that moved this from general to NCD.
I don't expect you to have read 10 pages of debating, but a good chunk of that was people agreeing that blue does, indeed, get the best cards. Also, I never said anything about blue "taking over the format." I'm not talking about standard.
Perfect example of the straw man.
If you're referring to the 2 guys who agreed with you on page 1, I guess some could consider that a chunk. Development doesn't care about Legacy and Vintage, and they shouldn't because it doesn't make them any money.
Wizards R&D has stated on multiple occasions that they won't let cards from their past restrict or limit designing cards for the future. Perhaps if you originally made that argument in your original post that that R&D doesn't support vintage or legacy, instead of waving an anti blue flag and drawing heat from your weak arguments.
In either case, maybe you take a break from the game since it gets you so hot and bothered and you have so many issues with it.
I'd say all the colors are getting love right now. Blue got Mental Misstep, one of the single most important cards in the older eternal formats, and while Scars block didn't have much, Innistrad already has two extremely good cards for Blue. Green has gotten much love, but Green in general needed the love when its base mechanics were pretty bad. RDW has gotten a massive boost, White is now juggling both aggro and control, and Black at least has its hands on the control part.
Saying blue is overpowered or that it gets the best cards because it used to, is a fallacy. That's like how certain insensitive people were saying that Japan deserved to be struck by a tidal wave because of Pearl Harbor.
And on another note, the way that everyone in this thread is so stubborn and unwilling to give quarter reminds me of the Westboro Baptist Church.
Seriously, you might want to work on that analogy.
He had to do so because you were referencing a spoiled card.
Then which is it? Should this be in NCD or not? Maybe you should get your facts straight before posting, instead of grasping at straws and backseat modding.
If you're referring to the 2 guys who agreed with you on page 1, I guess some could consider that a chunk. Development doesn't care about Legacy and Vintage, and they shouldn't because it doesn't make them any money.
Wizards R&D has stated on multiple occasions that they won't let cards from their past restrict or limit designing cards for the future. Perhaps if you originally made that argument in your original post that that R&D doesn't support vintage or legacy, instead of waving an anti blue flag and drawing heat from your weak arguments.
In either case, maybe you take a break from the game since it gets you so hot and bothered and you have so many issues with it.
They shouldn't care about legacy and vintage because it doesn't make them any money? It's people with that disposition that drive the game to ****. Maybe they should ban all the cards on the reserve list. After all, it won't make them any money. Making Snapcaster Red isn't exactly restricting or limiting card design, unless you consider any non-blue color a "limitation."
My argument has been the same from the beginning. I refuted your petty reasoning and you blame me because my argument wasn't spoon-fed to you? The problem is that you seem to think that magic revolves around standard and modern. The reality is that it doesn't, and hopefully never will.
Telling me I should stop playing if it bothers me is like telling US citizens to emigrate if they don't like Obama. Or better, it's like telling you to stop posting if you don't like my thread.
Wizards should never hurt standard in order to help legacy. I might be selfish, but I don't care about legacy and don't want it to be able to affect standard by limiting what wizards can do for blue. Until the reserved list is abolished there will never be a real reason to protect the legacy metagame.
Wizards should never hurt standard in order to help legacy. I might be selfish, but I don't care about legacy and don't want it to be able to affect standard by limiting what wizards can do for blue. Until the reserved list is abolished there will never be a real reason to protect the legacy metagame.
And Wizards shouldn't ever hurt standard to help older eternal formats, I agree. But would making snapcaster red really hurt standard? It would have helped red in vintage/legacy a lot.
Wizards should never hurt standard in order to help legacy. I might be selfish, but I don't care about legacy and don't want it to be able to affect standard by limiting what wizards can do for blue. Until the reserved list is abolished there will never be a real reason to protect the legacy metagame.
Like it or not they're still part of the market and WotC tends to do a pretty good job of putting a little bit of something in a set for everyone so there are a TON of different factors to think about, from T2, to drafting/ sealed, and now modern to (at a lesser extent) limited and legacy formats. Not to mention EDH and other casual players.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
There are plenty of ways to cast him in any other color, I make that point yet again.
Now, your complaint appears to be about Blue getting all the cool stuff...Should I start talking about Oblivion Ring? Or Dragonstorm? Or Primeval Titan? Or Dredge in general?
All the colors get some cool stuff man, give Blue a chance =/
And...you said it yourself, Red got Recoup. Blue gets Snapcaster now. That....seems rather fair to me o.o
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Getting Back into the swing of MTGS. Bear with me folks~
And Wizards shouldn't ever hurt standard to help older eternal formats, I agree. But would making snapcaster red really hurt standard? It would have helped red in vintage/legacy a lot.
It would make him a much worse card. Flash is a blue ability anyway. I am excited to play him in my blue control decks.
There are plenty of ways to cast him in any other color, I make that point yet again.
Now, your complaint appears to be about Blue getting all the cool stuff...Should I start talking about Oblivion Ring? Or Dragonstorm? Or Primeval Titan? Or Dredge in general?
All the colors get some cool stuff man, give Blue a chance =/
And...you said it yourself, Red got Recoup. Blue gets Snapcaster now. That....seems rather fair to me o.o
I would definitely be willing to wait until the rest of the spoiler is finished before continuing my assessment of how much love blue is getting from the development team. It just already seems like, with the spoiler thus far, they won't be printing very much good stuff. Snapcaster was probably the exception, being Tiago's invitational card.
Blue isn't exactly my favorite color, as you can probably already tell. I'm about 40% johnny, 40% spike, and 20% hipster, so I want to make a kick-ass mono-red vintage deck that isn't goblins. It's not going too well.
But anyways, recoup is hardly playable relative to snapcaster. It's just a little disappointing to me that red could've been given so much more potential and a new-ish mechanic to add to its repertoire.
Well, I WILL side with you on hoping the other colors get their own version of Snappy. That, I will say, would be very cool. And, I can understand the frustration with blue. It gets pretty much everything in the color pie(well, not in standard. Hell, in standard, it's barely getting even its OWN slice...).
But...let's wait until more things are spoiled until we have a panic attack, yeah? And hey, Stromkirk Noble is rather interesting, and a better one drop than many others we will soon be left with in Standard. With Goblin Guide going away(I think, right?) Stromkirk will be his replacement.
Green got Wreath, which is, in this set, probably going to be fantastically strong, and Black has Liliana. White is...I don't want to talk about White. It's getting all the love recently :xd:
The point being, I do agree with you that it would be better if every color got something as cool as Snappy, but if it doesn't happen, it just means Blue will stand more of a chance in Standard. =)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Getting Back into the swing of MTGS. Bear with me folks~
Every color has some form of control. White has lots of board control (O ring, DoJ and its ilk, Glorious Anthem), black has lots of hand control (Thoughtseize, Distress, Duress, etc.) along with tons of specific deck stripping spells, and not to mention the most ideal direct kill spells, and green has been getting lots of decent creatures that can't be targeted lately. The color that needs the most help right now, at least in my opinion, is definitely red. Burn burn burn. That's all it does. Although Kuldotha Red says that it's not necessarily a bad game plan. Red's definitely an early game kind of deck. Splash another color for late game plans.
Blue and black seem to be getting everything good in this set, at least.
Green seems to be the one getting left out, with what's spoiled so far, at least.
Seems like blue will remain the most splashed color untill Scars rotates. It's too bad, but what can you do?
Well, I WILL side with you on hoping the other colors get their own version of Snappy. That, I will say, would be very cool. And, I can understand the frustration with blue. It gets pretty much everything in the color pie(well, not in standard. Hell, in standard, it's barely getting even its OWN slice...).
But...let's wait until more things are spoiled until we have a panic attack, yeah? And hey, Stromkirk Noble is rather interesting, and a better one drop than many others we will soon be left with in Standard. With Goblin Guide going away(I think, right?) Stromkirk will be his replacement.
Green got Wreath, which is, in this set, probably going to be fantastically strong, and Black has Liliana. White is...I don't want to talk about White. It's getting all the love recently :xd:
The point being, I do agree with you that it would be better if every color got something as cool as Snappy, but if it doesn't happen, it just means Blue will stand more of a chance in Standard. =)
I'll agree that Stromkirk Noble is ridicunuts, and Liliana is looking quite sexy, but Wreath of Geists fall into the same trap that most auras do, that being the 2 for 1. If green has gotten anything spoiled so far that's worth its while, it would be Moonmist. Being an instant, and ideal for a r/g tribe, Moonmist lets you leave burn mana open if you need it.
oooh yeah, I had forgotten about Moonmist. Honestly, I think this set is looking good so far, and we still have the rest of this set, and 2 more sets after, to power up the other colors too~
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Getting Back into the swing of MTGS. Bear with me folks~
I'll agree that Stromkirk Noble is ridicunuts, and Liliana is looking quite sexy, but Wreath of Geists fall into the same trap that most auras do, that being the 2 for 1. If green has gotten anything spoiled so far that's worth its while, it would be Moonmist. Being an instant, and ideal for a r/g tribe, Moonmist lets you leave burn mana open if you need it.
Every color has some form of control. White has lots of board control (O ring, DoJ and its ilk, Glorious Anthem), black has lots of hand control (Thoughtseize, Distress, Duress, etc.) along with tons of specific deck stripping spells, and not to mention the most ideal direct kill spells, and green has been getting lots of decent creatures that can't be targeted lately. The color that needs the most help right now, at least in my opinion, is definitely red. Burn burn burn. That's all it does. Although Kuldotha Red says that it's not necessarily a bad game plan. Red's definitely an early game kind of deck. Splash another color for late game plans.
Id have to disagree on the grounds that blue is really the only color that has access to removal of any permanent it wants to and can do it at instant speed every time. Counterspells have been dealing with every type of spell since they were first printed, and blue's access to bounce spells that can bounce any type of permanent also provide answers to any kind of permanent.
Combine this with the fact that blue has access to the best card draw out of any color, and they will always have answers for all your threats and be able to outdraw you into more threats themselves. Things have been getting slightly better, but they really need to take a step back and look at blue and what it should be capable of. I for one would be happy to see flash leave blue forever, at least on creatures. Blue is supposed to be the worst with creatures, yet they continuously get "tricky" flash in creatures, often with great enters the battlefield effects, which allows them to control the game ALL the time instead of just some of the time. Move flash to Green to actually give them some trickery in the game, and because it makes sense in green (pretty sure animals in the jungle go for the surprise attack all the time, which fits in perfectly with flashing creatures into play suddenly.)
For reference, I think the last time that a blue deck WASN'T the top deck to beat was back in Onslaught, when it was Goblins. Since then it's been blue deck after blue deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
the difference is that not every 'piece of love' can be played as effectively as the next in tournament magic, because of the metagames, trends and sometimes the other tools available in the colours themselves. tournament quality decks are usually "good at everything, master of none" affairs where people have to have answers to everything, and do so with consistency. this means that spells with high coloured-mana requirements often get ignored and splashability/utility tends to be king.
in casual magic, where you don't have to design a deck to be able to defeat upwards of a hundred other decks with only minor sideboard changes (accepting that some decks can have significant variation between builds), you find that the awesome cards in other colours get played a lot more, and to great effect.
for example, black has some of the most abusive spells at the moment, but some are surprisingly difficult to play because they have a heavy B requirement and, generally speaking, black works best when combined with another colour.
just blanket-stating that blue is getting all the love is kind of lame... right?
If anything red got a lot of strong cards reprinted and green got huge boost as a color with Zendikar set - all those valakut, scapeshift and 12-post decks.
I like their new experiment with blue and all those illusions and zombies. Maybe we'll have some aggresive blue deck.
Unless you play eternal that is )) Good luck playing anything non-blue then.
Oh, and I think Mentor of the Meek will have a much bigger presence than snapcaster mage.
Actually this thread is about you vs the forum. Make an argument people don't agree with, and rather than having your say and the forum debate the topic, you've made it a jihad to convince everyone that blue is taking over the format. I really don't think you're convincing anyone and the fear mongering you're trying to generate is getting old and would only work on children.
In fact I would argue that for the standard format Green has gotten the most love. ie Cards that bends the rules of magic. It has the most tutors, (Green's Sun's Zenith), Birthingpod, the best Titan land tutor, 2 new planeswalkers, both with tutoring ability, one with card drawing, both with the ability to protect themselves through token generation, mana generation advantages. Ability to cheat out more mana. Eldrazi aren't playable unless you're playing green.
Hmm...I should re-word that, maybe? "This guy would have been awesome in red, but we have so much in the way of land searching, and dual lands, and fetchlands, that I don't think it's actually that difficult to splash a color these days, and lord knows Blue is the color to splash. It's too bad he isn't in Red, but we have plenty of other cards to wait for, and hopefully we'll see a Red card to trump this, as they usually give Red that kind of stuff."
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
I don't expect you to have read 10 pages of debating, but a good chunk of that was people agreeing that blue does, indeed, get the best cards. Also, I never said anything about blue "taking over the format." I'm not talking about standard.
Perfect example of the straw man.
Exactly! Tell that to the mod that moved this from general to NCD.
If you're referring to the 2 guys who agreed with you on page 1, I guess some could consider that a chunk. Development doesn't care about Legacy and Vintage, and they shouldn't because it doesn't make them any money.
Wizards R&D has stated on multiple occasions that they won't let cards from their past restrict or limit designing cards for the future. Perhaps if you originally made that argument in your original post that that R&D doesn't support vintage or legacy, instead of waving an anti blue flag and drawing heat from your weak arguments.
In either case, maybe you take a break from the game since it gets you so hot and bothered and you have so many issues with it.
And on another note, the way that everyone in this thread is so stubborn and unwilling to give quarter reminds me of the Westboro Baptist Church.
Seriously, you might want to work on that analogy.
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
Then which is it? Should this be in NCD or not? Maybe you should get your facts straight before posting, instead of grasping at straws and backseat modding.
They shouldn't care about legacy and vintage because it doesn't make them any money? It's people with that disposition that drive the game to ****. Maybe they should ban all the cards on the reserve list. After all, it won't make them any money. Making Snapcaster Red isn't exactly restricting or limiting card design, unless you consider any non-blue color a "limitation."
My argument has been the same from the beginning. I refuted your petty reasoning and you blame me because my argument wasn't spoon-fed to you? The problem is that you seem to think that magic revolves around standard and modern. The reality is that it doesn't, and hopefully never will.
Telling me I should stop playing if it bothers me is like telling US citizens to emigrate if they don't like Obama. Or better, it's like telling you to stop posting if you don't like my thread.
And Wizards shouldn't ever hurt standard to help older eternal formats, I agree. But would making snapcaster red really hurt standard? It would have helped red in vintage/legacy a lot.
Like it or not they're still part of the market and WotC tends to do a pretty good job of putting a little bit of something in a set for everyone so there are a TON of different factors to think about, from T2, to drafting/ sealed, and now modern to (at a lesser extent) limited and legacy formats. Not to mention EDH and other casual players.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Now, your complaint appears to be about Blue getting all the cool stuff...Should I start talking about Oblivion Ring? Or Dragonstorm? Or Primeval Titan? Or Dredge in general?
All the colors get some cool stuff man, give Blue a chance =/
And...you said it yourself, Red got Recoup. Blue gets Snapcaster now. That....seems rather fair to me o.o
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
It would make him a much worse card. Flash is a blue ability anyway. I am excited to play him in my blue control decks.
I would definitely be willing to wait until the rest of the spoiler is finished before continuing my assessment of how much love blue is getting from the development team. It just already seems like, with the spoiler thus far, they won't be printing very much good stuff. Snapcaster was probably the exception, being Tiago's invitational card.
Blue isn't exactly my favorite color, as you can probably already tell. I'm about 40% johnny, 40% spike, and 20% hipster, so I want to make a kick-ass mono-red vintage deck that isn't goblins. It's not going too well.
But anyways, recoup is hardly playable relative to snapcaster. It's just a little disappointing to me that red could've been given so much more potential and a new-ish mechanic to add to its repertoire.
But...let's wait until more things are spoiled until we have a panic attack, yeah? And hey, Stromkirk Noble is rather interesting, and a better one drop than many others we will soon be left with in Standard. With Goblin Guide going away(I think, right?) Stromkirk will be his replacement.
Green got Wreath, which is, in this set, probably going to be fantastically strong, and Black has Liliana. White is...I don't want to talk about White. It's getting all the love recently :xd:
The point being, I do agree with you that it would be better if every color got something as cool as Snappy, but if it doesn't happen, it just means Blue will stand more of a chance in Standard. =)
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
Green seems to be the one getting left out, with what's spoiled so far, at least.
Seems like blue will remain the most splashed color untill Scars rotates. It's too bad, but what can you do?
I'll agree that Stromkirk Noble is ridicunuts, and Liliana is looking quite sexy, but Wreath of Geists fall into the same trap that most auras do, that being the 2 for 1. If green has gotten anything spoiled so far that's worth its while, it would be Moonmist. Being an instant, and ideal for a r/g tribe, Moonmist lets you leave burn mana open if you need it.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
You mean like Garruk? o.O
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
Id have to disagree on the grounds that blue is really the only color that has access to removal of any permanent it wants to and can do it at instant speed every time. Counterspells have been dealing with every type of spell since they were first printed, and blue's access to bounce spells that can bounce any type of permanent also provide answers to any kind of permanent.
Combine this with the fact that blue has access to the best card draw out of any color, and they will always have answers for all your threats and be able to outdraw you into more threats themselves. Things have been getting slightly better, but they really need to take a step back and look at blue and what it should be capable of. I for one would be happy to see flash leave blue forever, at least on creatures. Blue is supposed to be the worst with creatures, yet they continuously get "tricky" flash in creatures, often with great enters the battlefield effects, which allows them to control the game ALL the time instead of just some of the time. Move flash to Green to actually give them some trickery in the game, and because it makes sense in green (pretty sure animals in the jungle go for the surprise attack all the time, which fits in perfectly with flashing creatures into play suddenly.)
For reference, I think the last time that a blue deck WASN'T the top deck to beat was back in Onslaught, when it was Goblins. Since then it's been blue deck after blue deck.