Funny, I don't see many mono-blue decks winning....anything, at all, recently.
surely blue is far too powerful.
It's a support color. it helps you win games, but it doesn't do so on it's own. Don't get butt hurt because the other guy splashed some blue into his deck so now it's more consistent and he can defend against your plays. It was the Elspeth/Tarmogoyf/Titan/Swords on a Hawk that killed you, not the mana leaks/preordains/brainstorms/standstill/Force of Will.
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Well, I guess that's fine too, but...I mean, it really isn't hard to do 3 damage in the current standard environment. Though, he'll be interesting to work with~ I may put him in a deck with Hex Parasite, that might work =D
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Garruk would be better if you could hurt him with your own spells =/
Actually, with Forked Bolt, Garruk could run quite nicely. You would need the extra :1mana::symr: though, which means you won't want to play Garruk until you can pay the 6 mana.
Id have to disagree on the grounds that blue is really the only color that has access to removal of any permanent it wants to and can do it at instant speed every time. Counterspells have been dealing with every type of spell since they were first printed, and blue's access to bounce spells that can bounce any type of permanent also provide answers to any kind of permanent.
Speaking about only standard here, you're wrong. The biggest drawback to counterspells is that you need them in your hand to counter the spell as it's being cast. You can't draw into a counterspell and retroactively counter that Baneslayer Angel that's been rocking you for the last 2 turns.
Well, I guess that's fine too, but...I mean, it really isn't hard to do 3 damage in the current standard environment. Though, he'll be interesting to work with~ I may put him in a deck with Hex Parasite, that might work =D
Ooo thats actually a really good idea!
Imma brew with that
Funny, I don't see many mono-blue decks winning....anything, at all, recently.
surely blue is far too powerful.
It's a support color. it helps you win games, but it doesn't do so on it's own. Don't get butt hurt because the other guy splashed some blue into his deck so now it's more consistent and he can defend against your plays. It was the Elspeth/Tarmogoyf/Titan/Swords on a Hawk that killed you, not the mana leaks/preordains/brainstorms/standstill/Force of Will.
While I agree that Blue isn't overpowered, this argument is flawed.
Mono-Red has long been a deck that's appeared time and time again when formats weren't prepared for it. It's been far more consistent than any other mono-colored deck. Does that mean Red is the strongest color?
While I agree that Blue isn't overpowered, this argument is flawed.
Mono-Red has long been a deck that's appeared time and time again when formats weren't prepared for it. It's been far more consistent than any other mono-colored deck. Does that mean Red is the strongest color?
I don't understand what metric should be used for this argument. If you were to make a mono-colored deck with all 5 colors in standard and had a tournament, who would win? Does that make a color the best? Does the most expensive card ever make a color the best?
As other people have said, blue is currently support. How many times does a blue card win the game? Rarely. Blue cards get you card advantage and stop things that would stop your win condition, but your win condition is the other color.
Pickles was the last mono-blue deck that won anything of note (mono-U fae was awful until it got a black card that pushed it over the top, does that mean black was also overpowered during LOR?) This argument can't really have a winner unless someone can make a metric to use, which is impossible based on the different formats and other variables.
In my opinion, however, Snapcaster isn't even that good, a 1/2 that gives you one turn to use a card in your graveyard for 2 mana more? Not really that impressed.
If any color has the "best" cards spoiled so far its red. The 3/3 Double strike for 3 and the +3/+0 5/4 for 4 are insane in a color that can play these guys then cast their burn spells on the opponent's turn to activate the flip.
In my opinion, however, Snapcaster isn't even that good, a 1/2 that gives you one turn to use a card in your graveyard for 2 mana more? Not really that impressed.
it's an instant 2/1 for 2CMC which is decent already as a chump blocker, but it gives a card in your graveyard flashback for a turn, which means that say you cast him in response to a spell, and then you pull out a Mana Leak from your graveyard and cast it to counter that spell. So you get access to a counter you wouldn't have normally had as well as a 2/1 body on the field all for a total of :2mana::symu::symu:.
THAT'S pretty sexy.
And that's not even going into all of the Proliferation and twincasting type shenanigans you can pull off.
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Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
As other people have said, blue is currently support. How many times does a blue card win the game? Rarely. Blue cards get you card advantage and stop things that would stop your win condition, but your win condition is the other color.
Generally, all the factors that go into winning should be counted. Demonic Tutor, Ancestral Recall, and Black Lotus don't win you the game. Does that mean underpriced tutors, draw, and mana accel aren't overpowered?
In my opinion, however, Snapcaster isn't even that good, a 1/2 that gives you one turn to use a card in your graveyard for 2 mana more? Not really that impressed.
it's an instant 2/1 for 2CMC which is decent already as a chump blocker, but it gives a card in your graveyard flashback for a turn, which means that say you cast him in response to a spell, and then you pull out a Mana Leak from your graveyard and cast it to counter that spell. So you get access to a counter you wouldn't have normally had as well as a 2/1 body on the field all for a total of :2mana::symu::symu:.
THAT'S pretty sexy.
And that's not even going into all of the Proliferation and twincasting type shenanigans you can pull off.
It is a card that requires you graveyard to be intact to do anything relevant...
4 mana for a counter + a 2/2 is basically Summoner's bane, that card wasn't overpowered. Like I said, it doesn't stand out to me, it may be a fantastic card, but I rather just have a straight card draw/counter in his spot every time.
You are thinking of mystic snake, a much more powerful card than summoner's bane. And mystic snake DID see play, and was incredibly powerful. This is better.
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"Being able to reuse a counter that I traded 1 for 1 earlier isn't really that useful, even if it does also net me a warm body"
Logic: Out for lunch today.
Most counterspells will go 1-1, neither giving nor taking away card advantage. This guy causes a counter to, possibly, go 1-2, giving you a 1-card advantage. The argument against it will be that you had to use a creature for it, of course, and we can definitely argue that, but here's the difference: You get to keep your warm body, they lost 2 of their spells. 4cmc for, essentially "Counter target spell unless its controller pays 3. Put a 2/1 Blue Human Wizard Creature token into play." sounds...rather useful to me o.o
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It is a card that requires you graveyard to be intact to do anything relevant...
4 mana for a counter + a 2/2 is basically Summoner's bane, that card wasn't overpowered. Like I said, it doesn't stand out to me, it may be a fantastic card, but I rather just have a straight card draw/counter in his spot every time.
You're acting like you have to have a counterspell to play this guy.
Newsflash: You don't.
Not to mention that Summoner's Bane only countered creature spells.
It is a card that requires you graveyard to be intact to do anything relevant...
4 mana for a counter + a 2/2 is basically Summoner's bane, that card wasn't overpowered. Like I said, it doesn't stand out to me, it may be a fantastic card, but I rather just have a straight card draw/counter in his spot every time.
I'd rather have 4 extra copies of any card I want from my deck whenever I want them, but who knows, maybe a few extra Divination are better?
Actually, I don't think this guy helped Blue mages the most. I think this will be best in Black and White. 4 of this guy doubles the number of all of your sorceries and instants(gets narrower as you use him, obviously, but still...) and with Black, you can kill him and bring him back(I hear reanimation effects are useful...). With white...you just doubled the number of Timely Reinforcements in your deck. Very nice~
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He's just a good card in general. I think, instead of focusing on how Blue got him...the focus should be on the cool decks he can work with. I LOVE that blue has this guy. He feels...just so perfect for the color. I mean, seriouslt, this feels like a Blue creature to me, I love it. I hate when Blue is weak, because it's my favorite opponent. Blue kicks the **** out of me, a lot, which means it's exciting to beat. This guy just helps them toolbox a bit more, which makes them even more exciting to play against.
And...any deck that can run blue, and runs him, will maybe be better, but I don't see him as game breaking, in any color
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Snapcaster mage doesn't even have to go into a mostly blue deck. Any deck that uses any kind of instant or sorcery and can make a little blue mana can use snapcaster mage. But I reckon a lot of blue players will snatch them all up before us TRUE magic players (green with white or black, with a splash of blue) can get a hold of them.
Also, snapcaster mage + almost anything in graveyard = daytime for werewolves (if you're not dead by the time they get you, in which case the werewolf player isn't doing a very good at werewolves in the first place).
Yeah, especially with Timely Reinforcements.
Because you already got three guys and 6 life, so the second one will really do a lot. ^^
Clearly he is stating that, assuming the condition that you wait and play it after you throw your 3 1/1's under the bus and let them get you back down under their life total again. And he's right, two Timely Reinforcements in one game against an aggro deck wins you the game. if you can't find board wipe and win with UW control after gaining 12 life and having 6 blockers, you are doing something wrong.
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All of this is extremely premature. While not a lot of blue is rotating out with Zendikar/M11 (Into the Roil and Jace Beleren are the most important rotating cards), support cards in blue decks are. Squadron Hawk is gone, Splinter Twin is gone, Inquisition/Duress are gone. That neuters UW, UR, and UB respectively.
Also, Snapcaster Mage is the only playable blue card that's been previewed so far, all the rest are unequivocally terrible.
All of this is extremely premature. While not a lot of blue is rotating out with Zendikar/M11, support cards in blue decks are. Squadron Hawk is gone, Splinter Twin is gone, Inquisition/Duress are gone. That neuters UW, UR, and UB respectively.
Also, Snapcaster Mage is the only playable blue card that's been previewed so far, all the rest are unequivocally terrible.
Deceiver Exarch on his own is pretty good. Being able to flash in a freight train of a blocker and tapping down one of their attackers is pretty good. With Snapcaster being added you have the makings of a pretty decent tempo deck already.
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Legacy Decks
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Modern
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Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
It's a difficult thing to change. Blue has been incredibly powerful for years. So for years people who are good at the game have obviously gravitated toward Blue, because it was the most powerful color. Ask pro players if they have a favorite color and most of them would answer "Blue".
Of course the pro tour is where Wizards gets most of it's new set developers from, and when they go to work for Wizards they bring with them their love of Blue. Continue this cycle over more than a decade and you end up with the idea permeating most of R&D, that Blue being slightly overpowered is "normal".
I do give Wizards credit for trying to change things, but perhaps not enough. They have been consciously pushing the power level of some Green and White cards in recent sets. But I don't know if it's something that can be solved without re-drawing the color pie a little more.
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Funny, I don't see many mono-blue decks winning....anything, at all, recently.
surely blue is far too powerful.
It's a support color. it helps you win games, but it doesn't do so on it's own. Don't get butt hurt because the other guy splashed some blue into his deck so now it's more consistent and he can defend against your plays. It was the Elspeth/Tarmogoyf/Titan/Swords on a Hawk that killed you, not the mana leaks/preordains/brainstorms/standstill/Force of Will.
UBANTBU
UBRWDDFTWRBU
WUBRGT.E.S.GRBUW
If my opponent is just gonna let garruk sit there, I'm completely content to churn out an army of 2/2s
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Actually, with Forked Bolt, Garruk could run quite nicely. You would need the extra :1mana::symr: though, which means you won't want to play Garruk until you can pay the 6 mana.
Speaking about only standard here, you're wrong. The biggest drawback to counterspells is that you need them in your hand to counter the spell as it's being cast. You can't draw into a counterspell and retroactively counter that Baneslayer Angel that's been rocking you for the last 2 turns.
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Decks:
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Ooo thats actually a really good idea!
Imma brew with that
I was thinking about running Garruk with a bunch of werewolves, and then claiming I thought of it first.
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While I agree that Blue isn't overpowered, this argument is flawed.
Mono-Red has long been a deck that's appeared time and time again when formats weren't prepared for it. It's been far more consistent than any other mono-colored deck. Does that mean Red is the strongest color?
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I don't understand what metric should be used for this argument. If you were to make a mono-colored deck with all 5 colors in standard and had a tournament, who would win? Does that make a color the best? Does the most expensive card ever make a color the best?
As other people have said, blue is currently support. How many times does a blue card win the game? Rarely. Blue cards get you card advantage and stop things that would stop your win condition, but your win condition is the other color.
Pickles was the last mono-blue deck that won anything of note (mono-U fae was awful until it got a black card that pushed it over the top, does that mean black was also overpowered during LOR?) This argument can't really have a winner unless someone can make a metric to use, which is impossible based on the different formats and other variables.
In my opinion, however, Snapcaster isn't even that good, a 1/2 that gives you one turn to use a card in your graveyard for 2 mana more? Not really that impressed.
If any color has the "best" cards spoiled so far its red. The 3/3 Double strike for 3 and the +3/+0 5/4 for 4 are insane in a color that can play these guys then cast their burn spells on the opponent's turn to activate the flip.
it's an instant 2/1 for 2CMC which is decent already as a chump blocker, but it gives a card in your graveyard flashback for a turn, which means that say you cast him in response to a spell, and then you pull out a Mana Leak from your graveyard and cast it to counter that spell. So you get access to a counter you wouldn't have normally had as well as a 2/1 body on the field all for a total of :2mana::symu::symu:.
THAT'S pretty sexy.
And that's not even going into all of the Proliferation and twincasting type shenanigans you can pull off.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Generally, all the factors that go into winning should be counted. Demonic Tutor, Ancestral Recall, and Black Lotus don't win you the game. Does that mean underpriced tutors, draw, and mana accel aren't overpowered?
Snapcaster is a 2/1.
Also, U CRAZY?:confused2:
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It is a card that requires you graveyard to be intact to do anything relevant...
4 mana for a counter + a 2/2 is basically Summoner's bane, that card wasn't overpowered. Like I said, it doesn't stand out to me, it may be a fantastic card, but I rather just have a straight card draw/counter in his spot every time.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
Logic: Out for lunch today.
Most counterspells will go 1-1, neither giving nor taking away card advantage. This guy causes a counter to, possibly, go 1-2, giving you a 1-card advantage. The argument against it will be that you had to use a creature for it, of course, and we can definitely argue that, but here's the difference: You get to keep your warm body, they lost 2 of their spells. 4cmc for, essentially "Counter target spell unless its controller pays 3. Put a 2/1 Blue Human Wizard Creature token into play." sounds...rather useful to me o.o
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You're acting like you have to have a counterspell to play this guy.
Newsflash: You don't.
Not to mention that Summoner's Bane only countered creature spells.
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I'd rather have 4 extra copies of any card I want from my deck whenever I want them, but who knows, maybe a few extra Divination are better?
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Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
And...any deck that can run blue, and runs him, will maybe be better, but I don't see him as game breaking, in any color
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Also, snapcaster mage + almost anything in graveyard = daytime for werewolves (if you're not dead by the time they get you, in which case the werewolf player isn't doing a very good at werewolves in the first place).
Not to mention Mana Leak, Go for the Throat, Ponder, Despise, Kuldotha Rebirth[/CARD(lol), Day of Judgement
So much yummyness
Clearly he is stating that, assuming the condition that you wait and play it after you throw your 3 1/1's under the bus and let them get you back down under their life total again. And he's right, two Timely Reinforcements in one game against an aggro deck wins you the game. if you can't find board wipe and win with UW control after gaining 12 life and having 6 blockers, you are doing something wrong.
UBANTBU
UBRWDDFTWRBU
WUBRGT.E.S.GRBUW
Also, Snapcaster Mage is the only playable blue card that's been previewed so far, all the rest are unequivocally terrible.
Deceiver Exarch on his own is pretty good. Being able to flash in a freight train of a blocker and tapping down one of their attackers is pretty good. With Snapcaster being added you have the makings of a pretty decent tempo deck already.
~~~~~~~~~
Too many to list efficiently. Find me online with the same SN if you want to play, or message me here to set up a time to play.
Modern
~~~~~~~~~
Whatever pile of 75 I throw together the night before without testing. Usually: :symb::symu::symg:
Of course the pro tour is where Wizards gets most of it's new set developers from, and when they go to work for Wizards they bring with them their love of Blue. Continue this cycle over more than a decade and you end up with the idea permeating most of R&D, that Blue being slightly overpowered is "normal".
I do give Wizards credit for trying to change things, but perhaps not enough. They have been consciously pushing the power level of some Green and White cards in recent sets. But I don't know if it's something that can be solved without re-drawing the color pie a little more.