So we've got one full deck list out now, and there isn't a single badly needed reprint in the whole list. Sure, Command Zone states the overall reprint value is high, but that's any deck when you're adding up a bunch of bulk cards. The best reprint we get is Seedborn Muse, which you can get easily for less than $10 already. It's looking a little better than last year I suppose.
I'm curious what other people are thinking and feeling about this. The reprints so far are almost entirely not sought after bulk cards. And this is also considering the still absurd $40 price tag, which already causes tons of new players that don't have a ton to spend to shy away from a precon.
With no badly needed reprints for experienced players, and the high $40 price tag that keeps a lot of newer players away, who is this product even for?
So we've got one full deck list out now, and there isn't a single badly needed reprint in the whole list. Sure, Command Zone states the overall reprint value is high, but that's any deck when you're adding up a bunch of bulk cards. The best reprint we get is Seedborn Muse, which you can get easily for less than $10 already. It's looking a little better than last year I suppose, but so far pretty awful.
I'm curious what other people are thinking and feeling about this. The reprints so far are pretty bad feels for anyone that doesn't need a new deck to get into the format. And this is also considering the still absurd $40 price tag, which already causes tons of new players that don't have a ton to spend to shy away from a precon.
With no badly needed reprints for experienced players, and the high $40 price tag that keeps a lot of newer players away, who is this product even for?
What badly needed reprint would a morph deck have?
So we've got one full deck list out now, and there isn't a single badly needed reprint in the whole list. Sure, Command Zone states the overall reprint value is high, but that's any deck when you're adding up a bunch of bulk cards. The best reprint we get is Seedborn Muse, which you can get easily for less than $10 already. It's looking a little better than last year I suppose, but so far pretty awful.
I'm curious what other people are thinking and feeling about this. The reprints so far are pretty bad feels for anyone that doesn't need a new deck to get into the format. And this is also considering the still absurd $40 price tag, which already causes tons of new players that don't have a ton to spend to shy away from a precon.
With no badly needed reprints for experienced players, and the high $40 price tag that keeps a lot of newer players away, who is this product even for?
What badly needed reprint would a morph deck have?
I don't think they would have reprinted Ixidor, Reality Sculptor because it's symmetrical. I'm not sure that card is getting a new edition any time soon. Same thing with Dream Chisel. They just don't favor those kinds of cards anymore.
What badly needed reprint would a morph deck have?
There are a crazy amount of expensive cards to reprint within the Sultai colors. They don't all need to be morph matters. Most of the good reprints in past Commander precons had little to do with the decks outside of being great cards for any deck within their colors. One particularly good card for morph decks though, would be Cloudstone Curio since it's a permanent that allows you to recur your morph abilities consistently throughout the game. There are completely wasted deck slots such as Urban Evolution and Biomass Mutation that literally do nothing for a morph deck and slots like these could've been much better used.
So we've got one full deck list out now, and there isn't a single badly needed reprint in the whole list. Sure, Command Zone states the overall reprint value is high, but that's any deck when you're adding up a bunch of bulk cards. The best reprint we get is Seedborn Muse, which you can get easily for less than $10 already. It's looking a little better than last year I suppose, but so far pretty awful.
I'm curious what other people are thinking and feeling about this. The reprints so far are pretty bad feels for anyone that doesn't need a new deck to get into the format. And this is also considering the still absurd $40 price tag, which already causes tons of new players that don't have a ton to spend to shy away from a precon.
With no badly needed reprints for experienced players, and the high $40 price tag that keeps a lot of newer players away, who is this product even for?
Calling precons a bust base on the price of reprints is rather skewed, don't you think?
The primary function of commander precons are there to be a gateway for players new to this format, $40 for a cohesive deck with potential for expansion isn't that high. If they include more pricy reprints then individual LGS might also sell them for higher cost, make it truly unapprochable by new players. As it is, I think the deck is fine for amateurs, it has a theme, good mana base and removal, versatile legends, and easy to learn.
Precons are tasked for supporting older deck ideas and/or inventing new one, to stimulate deckbuilding. Morph is an old concept requiring new blood, which this deck provided quite a few. It's a good deck and looks fun to play, I will definitely pick it up and playtest it.
Well if you cut out every card under $1 for the reprints the deck value is still $83. Even if we assume cards lose 50% of their value once they flood the market you'll still get at least $40 back in reprints and who knows what value the 17 new cards will hold so it's not horrible. That being said if the other 3 decks are similar it will certainly be underwhelming. I do understand it's hard for wizards to reprint some cards. Plenty of the in demand cards are $20+ and it's obviously going to be hard to put 1 expensive card per deck since it puts a ton of value that they don't need to include. At the same time just putting 1 high value card in 1 deck skews the values so that that deck will sell far better than the rest.
For anyone absolutely entrenched in the format, these products will always be disappointing... that is just how it is. These decks have never been what I hoped they would be for a $40 price tag, but they are nice to see anyways. Players deep into the format are likely just going to pick up singles anyways, this product isn't geared towards them - it is geared towards people who likely don't have a commander deck or who don't spend a whole lot of money on a secondary market.
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For anyone absolutely entrenched in the format, these products will always be disappointing... that is just how it is. These decks have never been what I hoped they would be for a $40 price tag, but they are nice to see anyways. Players deep into the format are likely just going to pick up singles anyways, this product isn't geared towards them - it is geared towards people who likely don't have a commander deck or who don't spend a whole lot of money on a secondary market.
I agree with most of what you're saying. Until last year, I always happily picked up a full set of the decks and was very satisfied. I truly do miss playing the decks for a little while before striping them apart for singles to use elsewhere, and it was always just worth it 2017 and prior. I do agree that WotC seems to be targeting players who don't buy singles, but it just seems like that's not even a decent option for those people whereas it used to be a great one. This is, of course, somewhat bold to state about the entire product this year since we've only seen one deck. However, this is an entire deck revealed now, and therefore does set some precedent of what we can expect in the coming week of spoilers.
Calling precons a bust base on the price of reprints is rather skewed, don't you think?
The primary function of commander precons are there to be a gateway for players new to this format, $40 for a cohesive deck with potential for expansion isn't that high. If they include more pricy reprints then individual LGS might also sell them for higher cost, make it truly unapprochable by new players. As it is, I think the deck is fine for amateurs, it has a theme, good mana base and removal, versatile legends, and easy to learn.
Precons are tasked for supporting older deck ideas and/or inventing new one, to stimulate deckbuilding. Morph is an old concept requiring new blood, which this deck provided quite a few. It's a good deck and looks fun to play, I will definitely pick it up and playtest it.
This is the exact scenario so far as to why last year's decks did so poorly. As in, they were a "bust." $40 is pretty expensive for a brand new player to want to invest in something they have no idea whether or not they'll enjoy when it comes to paper magic, where you're limited to when and where you can play much more so then say a video game.
The only way scalping has ever become an issue in the past with Commander products, was when WotC incompetently printed a vastly insufficient amount of the product in 2016.
Low value lazy reprints. Dont forget theyll go lower after this.
Uninspired legends so far. Theyre neat i guess but they dont inspire me to explore that design space. Theyre also not highly supported so even if you do explore that space everyone else is going the same exact route.
The new cards arent very strong, and they give way too many resources to the opponents, while providing minimal benefit.
Everyone is going to argue against me but time will prove me right. In 3 months all of these cards will be forgotten and cut.
2014, 2016 and the new cards in 2018 were the only products I really liked. O-Kagachi in 2017 was nice, but that series was plagued by Eminence. It was at least good value though. 2016 and 2018 were the best years of new cards for me. Strangely enough the odd number years are the worst, 2013, 2015 and now this year.
In which Gavin Verhey claims to have heard players dissatisfaction with the reprints of Commander 2018, and then proceeds to show that (at least after the first deck) no, no he didn’t. Talking out of your ass, Verhey.
“Hey kids, you want better reprints? Enjoy your $7 Seedborn (soon to be $4) and don’t say I never did anything for ya!”
In which Gavin Verhey claims to have heard players dissatisfaction with the reprints of Commander 2018, and then proceeds to show that (at least after the first deck) no, no he didn’t.
“Hey kids, you want better reprints? Enjoy your $7 Seedborn and don’t say I never did anything for ya!”
I'm glad somebody else brought it up because this was exactly what I thought about looking at today's decklist haha.
I don't think most of the expensive cards that were reprinted in older Commander sets were very expensive when the sets came out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but generally I don't think it's been common for anything more than $8 (at the time) to be reprinted in these sets. 'Cause then they have to take that out of the rest of the deck. Am I wrong?
Obviously certain cards have shot up, but you can't account for the future.
I don't think most of the expensive cards that were reprinted in older Commander sets were very expensive when the sets came out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but generally I don't think it's been common for anything more than $8 (at the time) to be reprinted in these sets. 'Cause then they have to take that out of the rest of the deck. Am I wrong?
Obviously certain cards have shot up, but you can't account for the future.
Well, one good thing they did in 2013 was to reprint some Portal cards such as Hua Tuo, Honored Physician, making them available to everyone (and then they screwed up with True-Name Nemesis)
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Sorry for my possible english mistakes, I'm not a native speaker.
I don't think most of the expensive cards that were reprinted in older Commander sets were very expensive when the sets came out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but generally I don't think it's been common for anything more than $8 (at the time) to be reprinted in these sets. 'Cause then they have to take that out of the rest of the deck. Am I wrong?
Obviously certain cards have shot up, but you can't account for the future.
No, not most, but there always were some $10+ cards before reprint within the decks pre 2018 such as Wurmcoil Engine, Cyclonic Rift, and Mirari's Wake to name a few. And regardless, there were typically a handful of $5+ cards per deck. I count two in the entire "Faceless Menace" deck.
We have literally had one deck spoiled so far. Some folks here need to chill out. Especially when, from a newer player's perspective, this deck still has some interesting stuff in it. Between the mana base, Thran Dynamo (a card newer players may not have had a chance at), Seedborn Muse (7 bucks is still too much for that card) the new cards and having a cohesive theme this actually looks miles ahead of last year especially when one of the main complaints was that the decks didn't actually feel like what they said they'd be with the Lord Windgrace deck being the stand out example. This meanwhile feels like exactly what you expect a Morph deck to be.
But that last one at least would put the deck on easy mode building wise and deprive a player of recognizing how good it is.
It's too early to call this stuff a bust. Let's at least wait until all the decks come out (I'm not going to say "until you play with them" because I find that argument disingenuous) but let's hold off with the torches and pitchforks until we actually have the broader scope of information here.
When WotC does these things like release a brand new batch of Commander decks, I go in with the assumption WotC is giving us something new to consider as a Commander build. I also work under the assumption if I want to custom make whatever WotC concocted, it’s my job to fill in the blanks with sought after cards there after.
Rarely is there any true value in the reprints. The only reason this is brought up is because last years were incredibly “meh” and somebody within WoTC acknowledged it by saying “this years will be better”, or something to that effect.
Reprints need to make sense. These are supposed to function out of the box. A term that is maybe used a bit loosely with some, but the theme is on point.
The real value comes from the new cards. Good reprints are only good until they are reprinted.
2014, 2016 and the new cards in 2018 were the only products I really liked. O-Kagachi in 2017 was nice, but that series was plagued by Eminence.
As a die-hard Kamigawa fan who had waited for O-Kagachi to be printed for over ten years... what we got wasn't O-Kagachi. I'm worried now we won't ever get a real O-Kagachi.
The art was awesome, though.
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I'm curious what other people are thinking and feeling about this. The reprints so far are almost entirely not sought after bulk cards. And this is also considering the still absurd $40 price tag, which already causes tons of new players that don't have a ton to spend to shy away from a precon.
With no badly needed reprints for experienced players, and the high $40 price tag that keeps a lot of newer players away, who is this product even for?
What badly needed reprint would a morph deck have?
Not much my friend
But I will say Ixidor, Reality Sculptor is not a reprint so that needs a reprint now
And brine elemental is missing to but that’s probably because of the one sided stasis lock you can do with it with one morph card in the deck
There are a crazy amount of expensive cards to reprint within the Sultai colors. They don't all need to be morph matters. Most of the good reprints in past Commander precons had little to do with the decks outside of being great cards for any deck within their colors. One particularly good card for morph decks though, would be Cloudstone Curio since it's a permanent that allows you to recur your morph abilities consistently throughout the game. There are completely wasted deck slots such as Urban Evolution and Biomass Mutation that literally do nothing for a morph deck and slots like these could've been much better used.
Calling precons a bust base on the price of reprints is rather skewed, don't you think?
The primary function of commander precons are there to be a gateway for players new to this format, $40 for a cohesive deck with potential for expansion isn't that high. If they include more pricy reprints then individual LGS might also sell them for higher cost, make it truly unapprochable by new players. As it is, I think the deck is fine for amateurs, it has a theme, good mana base and removal, versatile legends, and easy to learn.
Precons are tasked for supporting older deck ideas and/or inventing new one, to stimulate deckbuilding. Morph is an old concept requiring new blood, which this deck provided quite a few. It's a good deck and looks fun to play, I will definitely pick it up and playtest it.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
I agree with most of what you're saying. Until last year, I always happily picked up a full set of the decks and was very satisfied. I truly do miss playing the decks for a little while before striping them apart for singles to use elsewhere, and it was always just worth it 2017 and prior. I do agree that WotC seems to be targeting players who don't buy singles, but it just seems like that's not even a decent option for those people whereas it used to be a great one. This is, of course, somewhat bold to state about the entire product this year since we've only seen one deck. However, this is an entire deck revealed now, and therefore does set some precedent of what we can expect in the coming week of spoilers.
This is the exact scenario so far as to why last year's decks did so poorly. As in, they were a "bust." $40 is pretty expensive for a brand new player to want to invest in something they have no idea whether or not they'll enjoy when it comes to paper magic, where you're limited to when and where you can play much more so then say a video game.
The only way scalping has ever become an issue in the past with Commander products, was when WotC incompetently printed a vastly insufficient amount of the product in 2016.
Low value lazy reprints. Dont forget theyll go lower after this.
Uninspired legends so far. Theyre neat i guess but they dont inspire me to explore that design space. Theyre also not highly supported so even if you do explore that space everyone else is going the same exact route.
The new cards arent very strong, and they give way too many resources to the opponents, while providing minimal benefit.
Everyone is going to argue against me but time will prove me right. In 3 months all of these cards will be forgotten and cut.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
In which Gavin Verhey claims to have heard players dissatisfaction with the reprints of Commander 2018, and then proceeds to show that (at least after the first deck) no, no he didn’t. Talking out of your ass, Verhey.
“Hey kids, you want better reprints? Enjoy your $7 Seedborn (soon to be $4) and don’t say I never did anything for ya!”
I'm glad somebody else brought it up because this was exactly what I thought about looking at today's decklist haha.
Obviously certain cards have shot up, but you can't account for the future.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
Well, one good thing they did in 2013 was to reprint some Portal cards such as Hua Tuo, Honored Physician, making them available to everyone (and then they screwed up with True-Name Nemesis)
No, not most, but there always were some $10+ cards before reprint within the decks pre 2018 such as Wurmcoil Engine, Cyclonic Rift, and Mirari's Wake to name a few. And regardless, there were typically a handful of $5+ cards per deck. I count two in the entire "Faceless Menace" deck.
Are there some reprints they definitely could have thrown in? Heck yeah.
Rhystic Study/Mystic Remora
Vedalken Orrery
Cloudstone Curio (as others have said)
But that last one at least would put the deck on easy mode building wise and deprive a player of recognizing how good it is.
It's too early to call this stuff a bust. Let's at least wait until all the decks come out (I'm not going to say "until you play with them" because I find that argument disingenuous) but let's hold off with the torches and pitchforks until we actually have the broader scope of information here.
No.
Also:
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Flashback and populate have a decent shot at this
Beside we might need to see how the new cards play and see how the value is
I can’t wait for volrath 2.0 for one
Reprints need to make sense. These are supposed to function out of the box. A term that is maybe used a bit loosely with some, but the theme is on point.
The real value comes from the new cards. Good reprints are only good until they are reprinted.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Nice Hot Take.
There’s still another deck with G. One deck has been spoiled. Like, ffs people, relax.
As a die-hard Kamigawa fan who had waited for O-Kagachi to be printed for over ten years... what we got wasn't O-Kagachi. I'm worried now we won't ever get a real O-Kagachi.
The art was awesome, though.