I guess it all comes down to if you want to go tall or go wide.
The obvious play is to drop everything on Kathril and swing for commander damage, but I wonder if there are more creature control-based builds that spread the abilities out to create a winning board for different situations. It's probably just because Grimdancer has my mind whirring with its elegant flexibility and I wonder if that may be a theme in Kathril's deck based on its name. The best part is that it's like built in board wipe recovery, if the swarm plan fails, Kathril can be recast and switch to Voltron mode.
Flexibility and adaptability are themes I see throughout the spoiled cards, cards that can be used in different ways depending on game states and player assessment/choice. I like that Kathril can be used to go wide, go tall, or a hybrid of both depending on deckbuilding and game states.
I think the green, white and black creatures that have an evergreen ability and cycling (we've seen the green and black ones already) would be a good fit, or any older on-color cards that have cycling and keyword abilities.
Add Aerial Responder to the list, I like vigilance more than deathtouch if I'm putting the counters all on Kathril and making it a 6/6.
I guess it all comes down to if you want to go tall or go wide.
The obvious play is to drop everything on Kathril and swing for commander damage, but I wonder if there are more creature control-based builds that spread the abilities out to create a winning board for different situations. It's probably just because Grimdancer has my mind whirring with its elegant flexibility and I wonder if that may be a theme in Kathril's deck based on its name. The best part is that it's like built in board wipe recovery, if the swarm plan fails, Kathril can be recast and switch to Voltron mode.
Flexibility and adaptability are themes I see throughout the spoiled cards, cards that can be used in different ways depending on game states and player assessment/choice. I like that Kathril can be used to go wide, go tall, or a hybrid of both depending on deckbuilding and game states.
So the next logical step would be a few token producers, ones that piggy back off mechanics and themes already native to the deck. Something that grants tokens for each critter in the 'yard, perhaps? And of course the ubiquitous Doubling Season.
I think the green, white and black creatures that have an evergreen ability and cycling (we've seen the green and black ones already) would be a good fit, or any older on-color cards that have cycling and keyword abilities.
Add Aerial Responder to the list, I like vigilance more than deathtouch if I'm putting the counters all on Kathril and making it a 6/6.
So the next logical step would be a few token producers, ones that piggy back off mechanics and themes already native to the deck. Something that grants tokens for each critter in the 'yard, perhaps? And of course the ubiquitous Doubling Season.
But tokens don't go to the graveyard. My thoughts were that the danger of going wide is vulnerability to wipes, but Kathril very quickly recovers from them by becoming a hulking mass of abilities when recast after a wipe. Killing your army literally allows Kathril to come back even scarier than before. I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket, though, so I'd probably go the hybrid route and build around flexibly shifting between strategies.
Maybe some cheap early game creatures with abilities you want to play defense and/or pick off early attackers, a few bigger creatures with multiple abilities that can get discarded for Kathril to see or cast late game to help seal games, some utility/draw/discard effects, and a bit of good reanimation just in case?
For instance, I have a Lazav, the Multifarious deck and in it I play both Hunted Horror and Hired Poisoner. I never cast the horror, it's specifically there to target for copying, but the Poisoner (as well as other utility one and two drops) are great for early plays and inevitably make their way to the grave after a few turns anyway. I think Kathril will find the most success leaning into the same flexibility Lazav has of always having the right play for most situations.
What would I run? Bontu the Glorified Aerial Responder Danitha Capashen, Paragon Oketra the True Mirran Crusader Vampire Nighthawk Vampire of the Dire Moon Odric, Lunarch Marshall Skyhunter Skirmisher
As a start, add in your bigger/costlier creatures with 3+ relevant keywords, some ramp, some utility, and some reanimation. That way you can stall early while you ramp, and drop Kathril with distribution of abilities based on your board state. Sometimes several smaller creatures with 3+ abilities are best, sometimes one big Kathril is best, sometimes giving Kathril a select number of abilities and the rest of the team strategic abilities to backup Kathril and take out multiple players at once is best.
I think it comes down to the keywords themselves. Trample, hexproof and indestructible I think can just be on the beefy finishers to get tossed into the grave for Kathril and reanimation. The evasion, deathtouch, lifelink and vigilance might be useful on early game creatures, too (the evasion is more critical early if you're building a more aggressive deck, less so if you're heading in a more controlling direction).
I should say that a Voltron build trying to win on Kathril and a beefy graveyard is also a very potent route, I just play with groups where having flexibility is a big benefit and Voltron builds are harder to pilot.
I am currently building a Kathril deck, and have constructed 2 versions.
The first relies on 30 or so creatures. To get them into the graveyard i use cards like buried alive obviously, also dredge, and cards like hermit druid or satyr wayfinder I use a couple of tutors, but that's it.
The second version only contains 6 creatures with abilities and focuses completely on casting buried alive asap. It is packed with a lot of tutors, about 8 or so (don't forget dimir machinations). Also some recursion like noxious revival in case buried alive gets countered.
Seems like the second version is more effective and to the point. I can usually get kathril on turn 6,7 or 8 and its a big nasty commander that is almost impossible to get rid of so early in the game. In the first version it's more of a challenge to get the creatures in the graveyard, but i find the second version to be a little bit boring.
I am currently building a Kathril deck, and have constructed 2 versions.
The first relies on 30 or so creatures. To get them into the graveyard i use cards like buried alive obviously, also dredge, and cards like hermit druid or satyr wayfinder I use a couple of tutors, but that's it.
The second version only contains 6 creatures with abilities and focuses completely on casting buried alive asap. It is packed with a lot of tutors, about 8 or so (don't forget dimir machinations). Also some recursion like noxious revival in case buried alive gets countered.
Seems like the second version is more effective and to the point. I can usually get kathril on turn 6,7 or 8 and its a big nasty commander that is almost impossible to get rid of so early in the game. In the first version it's more of a challenge to get the creatures in the graveyard, but i find the second version to be a little bit boring.
Any thoughts?
Play what's most fun for you, and what's most acceptable for your playgroup. EDH can get political outside of the game as well, even (or especially) among friends, so maybe ask their opinions too. If they don't like being blown out by a nigh impossible killing machine so early in the game, then you can offer up suggestions (All is Dust, Arcane Lighthouse, Black Sun's Zenith, Aether Snap, Hallowed Burial, Evacuation, Gather Specimens, etc) on how to adjust to your local meta... or just play the other version of the deck.
This commander deck kind of builds itself, doesn't it? Off the top of my head:
Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Aerial Responder
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Avacyn, Angel of Hope
Mirran Crusader
Reveillark (evoke)
Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
Buried Alive
Grave Titan
Entomb
Vampire Nighthawk
Carnage Tyrant
Doubling Season
Fauna Shaman
Siege Behemoth
Spearbreaker Behemoth
Stonehoof Chieftain
Survival of the Fittest
Sylvan Caryatid
Thunderfoot Baloth
Dragonlord Dromoka (turn protection)
Sigarda, Host of Herons
Lightning Greaves (enables haste, which is desperately needed and not part of Kathril's native tool set)
Any combination of Amonkhet and/or Theros 1/2 gods (indestructible, value).
---
Generally speaking, most of the mechanics that benefit The Mimeoplasm work here. What are your auto-includes?
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
The obvious play is to drop everything on Kathril and swing for commander damage, but I wonder if there are more creature control-based builds that spread the abilities out to create a winning board for different situations. It's probably just because Grimdancer has my mind whirring with its elegant flexibility and I wonder if that may be a theme in Kathril's deck based on its name. The best part is that it's like built in board wipe recovery, if the swarm plan fails, Kathril can be recast and switch to Voltron mode.
Flexibility and adaptability are themes I see throughout the spoiled cards, cards that can be used in different ways depending on game states and player assessment/choice. I like that Kathril can be used to go wide, go tall, or a hybrid of both depending on deckbuilding and game states.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Add Aerial Responder to the list, I like vigilance more than deathtouch if I'm putting the counters all on Kathril and making it a 6/6.
So the next logical step would be a few token producers, ones that piggy back off mechanics and themes already native to the deck. Something that grants tokens for each critter in the 'yard, perhaps? And of course the ubiquitous Doubling Season.
A little redundancy's not bad, I'll add it.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
But tokens don't go to the graveyard. My thoughts were that the danger of going wide is vulnerability to wipes, but Kathril very quickly recovers from them by becoming a hulking mass of abilities when recast after a wipe. Killing your army literally allows Kathril to come back even scarier than before. I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket, though, so I'd probably go the hybrid route and build around flexibly shifting between strategies.
Maybe some cheap early game creatures with abilities you want to play defense and/or pick off early attackers, a few bigger creatures with multiple abilities that can get discarded for Kathril to see or cast late game to help seal games, some utility/draw/discard effects, and a bit of good reanimation just in case?
For instance, I have a Lazav, the Multifarious deck and in it I play both Hunted Horror and Hired Poisoner. I never cast the horror, it's specifically there to target for copying, but the Poisoner (as well as other utility one and two drops) are great for early plays and inevitably make their way to the grave after a few turns anyway. I think Kathril will find the most success leaning into the same flexibility Lazav has of always having the right play for most situations.
What would I run?
Bontu the Glorified
Aerial Responder
Danitha Capashen, Paragon
Oketra the True
Mirran Crusader
Vampire Nighthawk
Vampire of the Dire Moon
Odric, Lunarch Marshall
Skyhunter Skirmisher
As a start, add in your bigger/costlier creatures with 3+ relevant keywords, some ramp, some utility, and some reanimation. That way you can stall early while you ramp, and drop Kathril with distribution of abilities based on your board state. Sometimes several smaller creatures with 3+ abilities are best, sometimes one big Kathril is best, sometimes giving Kathril a select number of abilities and the rest of the team strategic abilities to backup Kathril and take out multiple players at once is best.
I think it comes down to the keywords themselves. Trample, hexproof and indestructible I think can just be on the beefy finishers to get tossed into the grave for Kathril and reanimation. The evasion, deathtouch, lifelink and vigilance might be useful on early game creatures, too (the evasion is more critical early if you're building a more aggressive deck, less so if you're heading in a more controlling direction).
I should say that a Voltron build trying to win on Kathril and a beefy graveyard is also a very potent route, I just play with groups where having flexibility is a big benefit and Voltron builds are harder to pilot.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
The first relies on 30 or so creatures. To get them into the graveyard i use cards like buried alive obviously, also dredge, and cards like hermit druid or satyr wayfinder I use a couple of tutors, but that's it.
The second version only contains 6 creatures with abilities and focuses completely on casting buried alive asap. It is packed with a lot of tutors, about 8 or so (don't forget dimir machinations). Also some recursion like noxious revival in case buried alive gets countered.
Seems like the second version is more effective and to the point. I can usually get kathril on turn 6,7 or 8 and its a big nasty commander that is almost impossible to get rid of so early in the game. In the first version it's more of a challenge to get the creatures in the graveyard, but i find the second version to be a little bit boring.
Any thoughts?
Play what's most fun for you, and what's most acceptable for your playgroup. EDH can get political outside of the game as well, even (or especially) among friends, so maybe ask their opinions too. If they don't like being blown out by a nigh impossible killing machine so early in the game, then you can offer up suggestions (All is Dust, Arcane Lighthouse, Black Sun's Zenith, Aether Snap, Hallowed Burial, Evacuation, Gather Specimens, etc) on how to adjust to your local meta... or just play the other version of the deck.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice