Prowl is an alternate cost to pay for a creature spell. So long as some mystical force doesn't cut the creature type on the spell that's relevant, you will get a discount on paying by Prowl.
Prowl is an alternate cost to pay for a creature spell. So long as some mystical force doesn't cut the creature type on the spell that's relevant, you will get a discount on paying by Prowl.
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Heres the exact rule from the comprehensive rules reguarding this which clearly states that alternative costs can be reduced. I started printed out the rules and bringing them with me ever since a judge at a qualifier ruled that I couldn't swamp walk into Mrs. Vess.
Here you go in case you get hassled (i bolded the important parts):
409.1f The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. Usually this is just the mana cost (for spells) or activation cost
(for abilities). Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay,
or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so
on. The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost, plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost
reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can't be reduced
to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
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Wouldn't this fall under the same circumstances as Bannerets and Suspend? Because the prowl cost is still an ability cost and not the mana cost of the creature or spell.. right?
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actually it would not, simply because you are playing the creature for a different cost. When you suspend a card, you are not playing the cards until later. you can also reduce the cost of evoke with this
The best way to keep track is to remember how the ability is worded - are you playing it right now or are you not?
Evoke says "You may play this card for its evoke cost ..." so the Bannerets reduce the cost.
Prowl says "You may play this card for its prowl cost if ..." so the Bannerets reduce the cost.
Suspend says "If you could play this card, you may instead pay its suspend cost ..." so you're not actually playing the card, thus no reduction.
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Heres the exact rule from the comprehensive rules reguarding this which clearly states that alternative costs can be reduced. I started printed out the rules and bringing them with me ever since a judge at a qualifier ruled that I couldn't swamp walk into Mrs. Vess.
Here you go in case you get hassled (i bolded the important parts):
409.1f The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. Usually this is just the mana cost (for spells) or activation cost
(for abilities). Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay,
or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so
on. The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost, plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost
reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can't be reduced
to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
If you've printed out the floor rules, you might have seen the part where you can't bring outside notes into a match. A vengeful judge might nab you on that. (Am I right on that? In this case I hope not, of course.)
The best way to keep track is to remember how the ability is worded - are you playing it right now or are you not?
Evoke says "You may play this card for its evoke cost ..." so the Bannerets reduce the cost.
Prowl says "You may play this card for its prowl cost if ..." so the Bannerets reduce the cost.
Suspend says "If you could play this card, you may instead pay its suspend cost ..." so you're not actually playing the card, thus no reduction.
Of course, Bannerets would reduce the cost of playing a suspended card after the last counter comes off -- but because you can play the suspended card without paying its mana cost, that usually doesn't matter.
Well there an interesting situation. Imagine they suspend a card and before it goes off they have something like the Azorius judge in play which raises the cost of spells. Would a banneret of the appropriate type negate the added cost?
Well there an interesting situation. Imagine they suspend a card and before it goes off they have something like the Azorius judge in play which raises the cost of spells. Would a banneret of the appropriate type negate the added cost?
If you've printed out the floor rules, you might have seen the part where you can't bring outside notes into a match. A vengeful judge might nab you on that. (Am I right on that? In this case I hope not, of course.)
Actually when you know your judge is wrong you can't tell them dirrectly or else it's considered arguing with the judge. Instead, what you do is appeal their decision to the head judge. This will usually result in you going over to the head judge, with your opponent, or the head judge coming over to you depending on how big the event is. Don't worry about the time issue, from the moment you called the judge over until the moment you get a final rulling (i.e. from the judge if you accept it or from a head judge) your game is on "pause". Make note of the times and after the ruling you may request to be given an extension equal to the total judging time.
Now once you start to talk to the head judge explain the reason why you are appealing the decison is that you know the comprehisive rules reguarding the situation rule diffrently then what the judge said. Often times level 1 judges don't actually know all the rules since they a) are new judges and b) often end up judging many diffrent games. This is even more likely at a prerelease where the rules and interactions are new and most judges start judging for the first time. The head judge knows this and will not be upset at you for calling on him, that's what he's there for. But try not to be cocky or whiney or they will not like you or treat you very nice and may refuse to change the rulling anyway. If you don't remember the #, which is likley, simply explain that you have the exact # written down for them to look up if they'd like. Then you can pull out the printout from your pocket or backpack. Don't store it in your booster box or any gaming related area or they actually would think it's outside notes. When coming from a non-game related area and presented to the head judge I don't think they will consider your printout to be notes related to the match. Also, the head judge gave you permission to show them to him. While you can print the whole rule out, it's pointless since they will just look it up anyway, but if you don't have the number ready for reference they probably won't want to do any research for you.
Now as for the "revenge matter" if any judge ever denys you your right to appeal to a head judge (like by saying the head judge is busy) or tries to get back at you by making a bad ruling later (like claiming that a rules printout given to a head judge when you weren't playing is outside notes) take their name and judge number down right away. In addition to reporting them to their head judge you can appeal the rulling and report the judge dirrectly to wizards at their tournament center. Judges get bumped down levels or even revoked if they act bias or even rude towards the playes. Magic is a business after all and WOtC does take care of their players and takes judge complaints seriously. Also remember that even a head judge has a judge above him, they won't be their for smaller events like prereleases, but they can be contacted after the fact.
I'm not advocating hasseling the judges or trying to get your point across (remember you are often wrong too). I have been a judge before and it's a hard job. Most judges should be regarding with respect and to be treated as knowledgable people who are there to help you. But I have also seen a lot of judges who get into judging for the wrong reasons. Either they are not ready, they judge too many diffrent games, or they are just in it for the money and often times these are the judges used during lower level events like prereleases where the points aren't worth as much. Whatever the reason, sometimes you need to inform those in charge about them, they have an apprenticship program for a reason.
Of course none of this is neccesary if you simply remember the phrase "rule 409.1f" along with the correct explaination.
The Bannerets reduce the cost to play spell with at least one of two types. Prowl is an alternate cost, but it's still a cost. Therefore (as long as the Prowl cost contains generic mana), the Banneret will reduce the Prowl cost by just as it will reduce any other cost to play spells with the stated types.
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wow!
latchkey faerie can possible go down to 1 mana?
sick...
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Here you go in case you get hassled (i bolded the important parts):
409.1f The player determines the total cost of the spell or ability. Usually this is just the mana cost (for spells) or activation cost
(for abilities). Some cards list additional or alternative costs in their text. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay,
or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so
on. The total cost is the mana cost, activation cost, or alternative cost, plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost
reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can't be reduced
to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
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and Resisting The Tyranny of the
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Evoke says "You may play this card for its evoke cost ..." so the Bannerets reduce the cost.
Prowl says "You may play this card for its prowl cost if ..." so the Bannerets reduce the cost.
Suspend says "If you could play this card, you may instead pay its suspend cost ..." so you're not actually playing the card, thus no reduction.
Do you know any judges who always impress you with their work ethic, knowledge, or attitude? Nominate them to be the next Judge of the Week!
If you've printed out the floor rules, you might have seen the part where you can't bring outside notes into a match. A vengeful judge might nab you on that. (Am I right on that? In this case I hope not, of course.)
Of course, Bannerets would reduce the cost of playing a suspended card after the last counter comes off -- but because you can play the suspended card without paying its mana cost, that usually doesn't matter.
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The spell would cost more to play and less to play. These effectively cancel, as though neither effect existed.
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Actually when you know your judge is wrong you can't tell them dirrectly or else it's considered arguing with the judge. Instead, what you do is appeal their decision to the head judge. This will usually result in you going over to the head judge, with your opponent, or the head judge coming over to you depending on how big the event is. Don't worry about the time issue, from the moment you called the judge over until the moment you get a final rulling (i.e. from the judge if you accept it or from a head judge) your game is on "pause". Make note of the times and after the ruling you may request to be given an extension equal to the total judging time.
Now once you start to talk to the head judge explain the reason why you are appealing the decison is that you know the comprehisive rules reguarding the situation rule diffrently then what the judge said. Often times level 1 judges don't actually know all the rules since they a) are new judges and b) often end up judging many diffrent games. This is even more likely at a prerelease where the rules and interactions are new and most judges start judging for the first time. The head judge knows this and will not be upset at you for calling on him, that's what he's there for. But try not to be cocky or whiney or they will not like you or treat you very nice and may refuse to change the rulling anyway. If you don't remember the #, which is likley, simply explain that you have the exact # written down for them to look up if they'd like. Then you can pull out the printout from your pocket or backpack. Don't store it in your booster box or any gaming related area or they actually would think it's outside notes. When coming from a non-game related area and presented to the head judge I don't think they will consider your printout to be notes related to the match. Also, the head judge gave you permission to show them to him. While you can print the whole rule out, it's pointless since they will just look it up anyway, but if you don't have the number ready for reference they probably won't want to do any research for you.
Now as for the "revenge matter" if any judge ever denys you your right to appeal to a head judge (like by saying the head judge is busy) or tries to get back at you by making a bad ruling later (like claiming that a rules printout given to a head judge when you weren't playing is outside notes) take their name and judge number down right away. In addition to reporting them to their head judge you can appeal the rulling and report the judge dirrectly to wizards at their tournament center. Judges get bumped down levels or even revoked if they act bias or even rude towards the playes. Magic is a business after all and WOtC does take care of their players and takes judge complaints seriously. Also remember that even a head judge has a judge above him, they won't be their for smaller events like prereleases, but they can be contacted after the fact.
I'm not advocating hasseling the judges or trying to get your point across (remember you are often wrong too). I have been a judge before and it's a hard job. Most judges should be regarding with respect and to be treated as knowledgable people who are there to help you. But I have also seen a lot of judges who get into judging for the wrong reasons. Either they are not ready, they judge too many diffrent games, or they are just in it for the money and often times these are the judges used during lower level events like prereleases where the points aren't worth as much. Whatever the reason, sometimes you need to inform those in charge about them, they have an apprenticship program for a reason.
Of course none of this is neccesary if you simply remember the phrase "rule 409.1f" along with the correct explaination.
The Steamflogged
Human Rigger Minions committed to
forcing Contraptions in YMTC4,
and Resisting The Tyranny of the
Viva La Assembly!
Quotes:
The Bannerets reduce the cost to play spell with at least one of two types. Prowl is an alternate cost, but it's still a cost. Therefore (as long as the Prowl cost contains generic mana), the Banneret will reduce the Prowl cost by just as it will reduce any other cost to play spells with the stated types.
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