"Whenever a creature is put into a graveyard from play, you may pay . If you do, Cemetery Puca becomes a copy of that creature and gains this ability."
_______
Ok, say I have a Dark Depths in play and it is a creature via animation. When the dark depths goes to the graveyard can I play Cemetary Puca's ability to turn it into a dark depths ?
Secondly, the counters wouldn't copy correct? so it would sacrifice and make a 20/20 marit Lage... or am I worng.
I'm not a judge (nor am I gospel), but to me the depths would die then the Puca goes on the stack, which you presumably pay. You should be able to pay this cost, as last known info looks at the depths and sees it as a creature (that's why the puca triggers). The puca then becomes a copy of dark depths, with no counters on it, and goes "zomg I have not counters I'm offing myself", and it's sacrifice ability goes on the stack. Assuming nothing relevant happens (if they counter the trigger it'll come straight back) then you sacrifice the 'dark depths' puca and you get Marit Lage. It has no counters on it as they are not a value that gets copied.
In short: 20/20 token! w00t!
If I'm wrong, then if someone can point out my mistake for me. (Sorry it's long, I prefer explaining everything over yes/no)
Elspeth "we must fight to protect order and justice!"
Tezzeret "No! he will break all my artifacts and stomp my head!"
Vol "powerful dragon must be brought to heel!"
Ajani "**** this Im outta *planeswalks to lorwyn* wow what hell is this place?"
Little lorwyn goblin "this be the place of bad art and Tribes!!!"
All other Alara planeswalkers "hey where did ajani go???"
EDIT: Nvm, My mind can't see things below a line, as it thinks it's a signature.
I think it would copy all aspects of the card, including the ability and the fact it's a land. It won't have counters since it's already in play, and you would sacrifice it and make a 20/20.
@azn below me: Yeah, I know that. I had thought the original poster had posted one sentence since I apparently have very bad ADD.
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Noted, And Playtested for backup. You Can Fate Transfer the counters Away from an animated Depths, and that Sacs itself making a Marit Lage. also the Puca's ability triggers, and you may pay 1 for that.. but it just becomes a permantely Animated 1/2 Depths. Also, If you Sac That Puca/Depths. It will not trigger the OMG let's bring out Dark Doom upon all. (also, you already have one lage. due to the sac of the Depths, why would you want 2?)
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you have a dark depths in play and a Cemetary Puca in play. The depths has counters on it. You cast animate land on the depths for G and block an incoming creature. The depths recieves lethal damage and is sent to the yard. I pay the one to copy the depths onto the Puca..
The puca sees that it has no counters on it and goes off, resulting in a 20/20 token..
(The only one so it stays in play..)
the way you explained it.. doesn't work.. my previous point has worked (and i've backed it up with Judge Rulings, and actual playtesting.. (s'why i thanked you). but I'm sure it can be explained in further detail by a judge than just an advisor
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Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
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Copy effects do not copy animation effects. Whoever is telling you things is wrong. If you copy an animated dark depths, you get a dark depths land (unanimated) [generally, then the legen rules kicks and and both the lands die, but since the first is no longer in play here, you dont have that issue]. As this puca-depths has no counters on it, it will be sacrificed and you will get a 20/20 token.
wrong. Depths only states that if it's counters are removed, thus causing it to auto sacrafice. i'm still iffy about the animate/unanimated land issue, as the land was animated ahead of time, we'll need a judge ruling regarding that officially..
Edit. the main reason i'm iffy about that is because it's a creature that takes the traits of another creature, which becomes a land. the depths i saw was a 1/2)
Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Copy effects copy the card as written, modified by things that are "modifying" the text. Animation effects are not included in that.
Cemetery Puca will copy the animated Dark Depths, becoming a land (not a creature); no ice counters are put on it, because it is not coming into play. The "sacrifice it" ability will trigger, because the ability says, "When Dark Depths has no ice counters on it". You'd then get the token.
Ravashi, just because you tried this out on MTGO doesn't mean it's working correctly. There's no reason Puca, after copying anything that isn't a 1/2 creature, should end up a 1/2 creature. I suspect this is a bug with Puca that hasn't been fixed yet.
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What about the token? What if the Maret Leige token dies from zero tougness or sacrifice or something? If you have a Cemetary Puca in play when that happens, do you get a chance to pay the mana and change it into Maret Leige?
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What about the token? What if the Maret Leige token dies from zero tougness or sacrifice or something? If you have a Cemetary Puca in play when that happens, do you get a chance to pay the mana and change it into Maret Leige?
It's a triggered ability. Once the token hits the graveyard from play, Cemetery Puca's ability will trigger, and once a player would get priority, the trigger goes onto the stack. After all players pass priority, the ability resolves and you choose whether to pay the 1 to copy the creature hitting the graveyard.
I am not sure if it would be indestruble, as that power is not granted by an ability that the token. You would get a legendary 20/20 black Avatar flyer named Magit Lage.
It will not be indestructible. It will have flying.
It's a triggered ability. Once the token hits the graveyard from play, Cemetery Puca's ability will trigger, and once a player would get priority, the trigger goes onto the stack. After all players pass priority, the ability resolves and you choose whether to pay the 1 to copy the creature hitting the graveyard.
Not entirely correct. It won't have flying.
That the token is Legendary, 20/20, black, creature type Avatar, and has the name Marit Lage are all characteristics. Flying and indestructible are both abilities granted by Dark Depths. The characteristics are copiable, but the additional abilities are not.
That's kind of lame. I thought the token was an indistuctabe flyer. Oh well. Here's to nonituitive magic rules.
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I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause!
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw: SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
That the token is Legendary, 20/20, black, creature type Avatar, and has the name Marit Lage are all characteristics. Flying and indestructible are both abilities granted by Dark Depths. The characteristics are copiable, but the additional abilities are not.
Could you explain why they are not? maybe i missed this but how is it that the Depths makes it have flying? would that also mean that Bitterblossom gives the faerie tokens flying? i'm just confused by this as Tokens sometimes have abilities such as the Faerie tokens all having flying right on the token.
Um... I am sure that the puca will have flying because dark deapths states that put an indestructible legendary 20/20 black Avatar creature token with flying named Marit Lage into play.
and
201. Characteristics 201.1. An object’s characteristics are name, mana cost, color, card type, subtype, supertype, expansion symbol, rules text, abilities, power, toughness, and loyalty. Objects can have some or all of these characteristics. Any other information about an object isn’t a characteristic. For example, characteristics don’t include whether a permanent is tapped, a spell’s target, an object’s owner or
controller, what an Aura enchants, and so on.
Because flying is an ability that is granted by the generation of the token, the puca will have flying.
The problem is that indestrubility isn't an ability in this case.
Hmm... Seems my massive amount of research led me to refer to a source that was incorrect. I've just checked in with people smarter than me, and confirm that yes, sawbladex is correct, the copy will have flying (but is not indestructible).
You mean the copy of the token? The token is an indestructible flier. It's just copies that aren't indestruble.
Fixed. THe issue is that being indestructible isn't an ability granted by the creation of the token, but a property that isn't a type of anykind, mana cost, or a color, an explation symbol and so on.. I kinda wish that wizards would errata this to make dark depths say with flying and "~ is indesturible."
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Ok, say I have a Dark Depths in play and it is a creature via animation. When the dark depths goes to the graveyard can I play Cemetary Puca's ability to turn it into a dark depths ?
Secondly, the counters wouldn't copy correct? so it would sacrifice and make a 20/20 marit Lage... or am I worng.
In short: 20/20 token! w00t!
If I'm wrong, then if someone can point out my mistake for me. (Sorry it's long, I prefer explaining everything over yes/no)
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I think it would copy all aspects of the card, including the ability and the fact it's a land. It won't have counters since it's already in play, and you would sacrifice it and make a 20/20.
@azn below me: Yeah, I know that. I had thought the original poster had posted one sentence since I apparently have very bad ADD.
@ZetaZeta: Jolrael, Empress of Beasts comes to mind.
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no,... Balduvian Frostwaker comes to mind...
you have a dark depths in play and a Cemetary Puca in play. The depths has counters on it. You cast animate land on the depths for G and block an incoming creature. The depths recieves lethal damage and is sent to the yard. I pay the one to copy the depths onto the Puca..
The puca sees that it has no counters on it and goes off, resulting in a 20/20 token..
(The only one so it stays in play..)
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
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Edit. the main reason i'm iffy about that is because it's a creature that takes the traits of another creature, which becomes a land. the depths i saw was a 1/2)
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Cemetery Puca will copy the animated Dark Depths, becoming a land (not a creature); no ice counters are put on it, because it is not coming into play. The "sacrifice it" ability will trigger, because the ability says, "When Dark Depths has no ice counters on it". You'd then get the token.
Ravashi, just because you tried this out on MTGO doesn't mean it's working correctly. There's no reason Puca, after copying anything that isn't a 1/2 creature, should end up a 1/2 creature. I suspect this is a bug with Puca that hasn't been fixed yet.
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw:
SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
I am not sure if it would be indestruble, as that power is not granted by an ability that the token.
You would get a legendary 20/20 black Avatar flyer named Magit Lage.
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It's a triggered ability. Once the token hits the graveyard from play, Cemetery Puca's ability will trigger, and once a player would get priority, the trigger goes onto the stack. After all players pass priority, the ability resolves and you choose whether to pay the 1 to copy the creature hitting the graveyard.
It will not be indestructible. It will have flying.
That's kind of lame. I thought the token was an indistuctabe flyer. Oh well. Here's to nonituitive magic rules.
Famliy Guy Emperor Says,
"Something, something something, DARK SIDE!
Something, something, something COMPLETE!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHiUitciuJ8
:symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw::symrw:
SPIKE GAYMER: not just a beatdown, a beatdown sung to the tune of "I Feel Pretty"!
Could you explain why they are not? maybe i missed this but how is it that the Depths makes it have flying? would that also mean that Bitterblossom gives the faerie tokens flying? i'm just confused by this as Tokens sometimes have abilities such as the Faerie tokens all having flying right on the token.
RB Olivia Voldaren RB
GB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons GB
BWR Queen Marchesa BWR
RW Anya, Merciless Angel RW
UW Bruna, Light of Alabaster UW
UB Wydwen, The Biting Gale UB
GU Momir Vig, simic visionary GU
WG Karametra, God of Harvests WG
WUBSydri, Galvanic GeniusWUB
and
201.1. An object’s characteristics are name, mana cost, color, card type, subtype, supertype, expansion
symbol, rules text, abilities, power, toughness, and loyalty. Objects can have some or all of these
characteristics. Any other information about an object isn’t a characteristic. For example,
characteristics don’t include whether a permanent is tapped, a spell’s target, an object’s owner or
Because flying is an ability that is granted by the generation of the token, the puca will have flying.
The problem is that indestrubility isn't an ability in this case.
As found in http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=94413.
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Fixed. THe issue is that being indestructible isn't an ability granted by the creation of the token, but a property that isn't a type of anykind, mana cost, or a color, an explation symbol and so on.. I kinda wish that wizards would errata this to make dark depths say with flying and "~ is indesturible."
Butcher of Words.
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