If i have a spawnwrithe, i attack and my opponent doesnt block, i cast giant growth on it, is the token it makes a 5/5 or a 2/2, or a 5/5 untill end of turn? because the way the ability is worderd, the token copies all stats the spawnwrithe has when the token is made.
If you were to deal damage with spawnwrithe, put the trigger on the stack, and then play mirrorweave targeting a different creature, wouldn't the token be a copy of that creature permanently?
Yes. Copy effects copy other copy effects. And the new copy doesn't revert to a Spawnwrithe, because copy effects don't copy things like "until end of turn".
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that's where i must disagree with you Sabett... Copy Effects WILL copy other Copy effects in certian Situations.. remember back in the day when Cytoshape still Ran Supreme? I built a deck that used Nacatl War-Pride attacking into a large army.. and while that copy effect was still upon the stack.. i Cytoshaped it into a Protean Hulk.. making me a huge Army of 6/6's that spawned death when they died.
SO. Playing Mirrorweave While Spawnwrithe's Copy effect is on the stack (or many spawnwrithe's copy effects) you get a LArge Army of whatever you happen to target with the 'weave.
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Ie spawnwrithe always puts an exact copy of spawnwrithe into play(A 2/2 green elemental named spawnwrithe with trample and the spawnwrithe ability) then why didnt wizards print tokens? if i remember right, they said that the token wont always be the 2/2 green elemental named spawnwrithe with trample and the spawnwrithe ability.
Ie spawnwrithe always puts an exact copy of spawnwrithe into play(A 2/2 green elemental named spawnwrithe with trample and the spawnwrithe ability) then why didnt wizards print tokens? if i remember right, they said that the token wont always be the 2/2 green elemental named spawnwrithe with trample and the spawnwrithe ability.
No, they reasoning was that it would be wierd to open one up, since you could mistake it for the "real" card (Expansion symbol (maybe incl. rarity) IS copyable - same with manacost and so on. They would be very hard to the difference in - except that one got annother back I suppose).
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No, they reasoning was that it would be wierd to open one up, since you could mistake it for the "real" card (Expansion symbol (maybe incl. rarity) IS copyable - same with manacost and so on. They would be very hard to the difference in - except that one got annother back I suppose).
Ah ok. Last situation that comes to mind: i have fire whip on spawnwrithe, will the spawnwrithe copy have the fire whip ability? cuase fire whip gives it the ability, and the token copies all copiable abilities. Wovldnt fire whips abilty(Since its "on" the spawnwrithe from a technical and functional viewpoint) be copied over?
No you will not have the ability granted by fire whip in the token. The copiable characteristics of an object are basically what is printed on the card, modified by other copy effects.
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that's where i must disagree with you Sabett... Copy Effects WILL copy other Copy effects in certian Situations.. remember back in the day when Cytoshape still Ran Supreme? I built a deck that used Nacatl War-Pride attacking into a large army.. and while that copy effect was still upon the stack.. i Cytoshaped it into a Protean Hulk.. making me a huge Army of 6/6's that spawned death when they died.
SO. Playing Mirrorweave While Spawnwrithe's Copy effect is on the stack (or many spawnwrithe's copy effects) you get a LArge Army of whatever you happen to target with the 'weave.
I'm not understanding that at all, how can it copy something other that what the ability specifically says to copy? I'm not trying to be hard headed, it just doesn't make sense to me that an effect that says copy of spawnwrithe, would copy it when it's something else.
* As the token is created, it checks the printed values of the Spawnwrithe it's copying -- or, if the Spawnwrithe whose ability triggered was itself a token, the original characteristics of that token as stated by the effect that put it into play -- as well as any copy effects that have been applied to it. It won't copy counters on the Spawnwrithe, nor will it copy other effects that have changed Spawnwrithe's power, toughness, types, color, or so on. Normally, this means the token will simply be a Spawnwrithe. But if any copy effects have affected that Spawnwrithe, they're taken into account. For example:
* If Spawnwrithe's ability triggers, then Spawnwrithe becomes a copy of another creature before its ability resolves (due to Mirrorweave, perhaps), the token will be a copy of whatever creature the Spawnwrithe is currently a copy of. At the end of the turn, Spawnwrithe will revert back to what it was, but the token will stay as it is.
* If a copy effect such as Mirrorweave causes some other creature to become a copy of Spawnwrithe, then that creature deals combat damage to a player, the token that's put into play is simply a copy of Spawnwrithe.
* A token created by a Cemetery Puca that's copying a Spawnwrithe will be a Spawnwrithe with the Cemetery Puca ability.
So, a cemetary puca coping spawnwrithe would make a token with cemetry pucas ability? that seems usable. It would work the same for Vesuvian shaPeshifter right?
So, a cemetary puca coping spawnwrithe would make a token with cemetry pucas ability? that seems usable. It would work the same for Vesuvian shaPeshifter right?
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and an enchantment works the same, right?
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yep
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SO. Playing Mirrorweave While Spawnwrithe's Copy effect is on the stack (or many spawnwrithe's copy effects) you get a LArge Army of whatever you happen to target with the 'weave.
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No, they reasoning was that it would be wierd to open one up, since you could mistake it for the "real" card (Expansion symbol (maybe incl. rarity) IS copyable - same with manacost and so on. They would be very hard to the difference in - except that one got annother back I suppose).
Ah ok. Last situation that comes to mind: i have fire whip on spawnwrithe, will the spawnwrithe copy have the fire whip ability? cuase fire whip gives it the ability, and the token copies all copiable abilities. Wovldnt fire whips abilty(Since its "on" the spawnwrithe from a technical and functional viewpoint) be copied over?
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I'm not understanding that at all, how can it copy something other that what the ability specifically says to copy? I'm not trying to be hard headed, it just doesn't make sense to me that an effect that says copy of spawnwrithe, would copy it when it's something else.
Are there any judges who could help us out?
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* As the token is created, it checks the printed values of the Spawnwrithe it's copying -- or, if the Spawnwrithe whose ability triggered was itself a token, the original characteristics of that token as stated by the effect that put it into play -- as well as any copy effects that have been applied to it. It won't copy counters on the Spawnwrithe, nor will it copy other effects that have changed Spawnwrithe's power, toughness, types, color, or so on. Normally, this means the token will simply be a Spawnwrithe. But if any copy effects have affected that Spawnwrithe, they're taken into account. For example:
* If Spawnwrithe's ability triggers, then Spawnwrithe becomes a copy of another creature before its ability resolves (due to Mirrorweave, perhaps), the token will be a copy of whatever creature the Spawnwrithe is currently a copy of. At the end of the turn, Spawnwrithe will revert back to what it was, but the token will stay as it is.
* If a copy effect such as Mirrorweave causes some other creature to become a copy of Spawnwrithe, then that creature deals combat damage to a player, the token that's put into play is simply a copy of Spawnwrithe.
* A token created by a Cemetery Puca that's copying a Spawnwrithe will be a Spawnwrithe with the Cemetery Puca ability.
Well ok then all he needs now is a four toughness, good target and you've got a viable deck for block!
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Sounds right to me.