There is a Figure of Destiny and 1 Grizzly Bears in play. The Figure of Destiny's first ability is activated and resolves making it a 2/2.
The FoD is targeted by Mirrorweave and this resolves. The Grizzly Bears becomes a 1/1 Figure of Destiny, and then it's ability is activated making it a 2/2.
The turn ends and the next turn begins. The former Bears is now a 2/2 Kithkin Spirit named Grizzly Bears? Is this correct?
i dont believe so.. mainly because the Weave reverts it back to normal.. and if you had the Extra Mana to burn... you'd end up with 1 4/4 beater and a 2/2 from a Weave on turn whatever with the proper Excell... i dont think so..
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When Mirrorweave's effect ends, it doesn't make the Bear "revert back to normal". Instead, it just means that the copy effect no longer applies to the Grizzly Bears. However, that doesn't affect what other effects have been applied to it. Namely, the "this becomes a 2/2 Kithkin Spirit" effect is still lingering around, so you are correct that the Grizzly Bears is a 2/2 Kithkin Spirit.
RadioEDIT: I'm quite certain my above ruling is correct. However, I have a piggyback question to which I don't know the answer to.
If, in the same turn you play Mirrorweave targeting the Figure of Destiny, you play the FigureBear's first ability, and then its second ability, what with the Bear be when Mirrorweave's effect ends? Will it be
a) a 2/2 Kithkin Spirit? (The argument is that the condition, "if [THISCARD] is a Spirit", is checked all times, even after the ability has resolved)
b) a 4/4 Kithkin Spirit Warrior? (The argument is that the condition is only checked when the ability resolves, and if the condition is true, the creature becomes a 4/4 Kithkin Spirit Warrior even if it loses the creature type Spirit)
I'm leaning towards b) just because if it wouldn't make sense for a Nameless Inversion to kill the 4/4 (or 8/8) because it removes all creature types and sends it back to being a 2/2. But sometimes the rules don't make sense, so could someone enlighten me?
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i dont believe so.. mainly because the Weave reverts it back to normal.. and if you had the Extra Mana to burn... you'd end up with 1 4/4 beater and a 2/2 from a Weave on turn whatever with the proper Excell... i dont think so..
I'm pretty sure this doesn't make sense, but I'll wait for a judge to weigh in...
When Mirrorweave's effect ends, it doesn't make the Bear "revert back to normal". Instead, it just means that the copy effect no longer applies to the Grizzly Bears. However, that doesn't affect what other effects have been applied to it. Namely, the "this becomes a 2/2 Kithkin Spirit" effect is still lingering around, so you are correct that the Grizzly Bears is a 2/2 Kithkin Spirit.
Thought so, but hopefully a judge can back this up.
RadioEDIT: I'm quite certain my above ruling is correct. However, I have a piggyback question to which I don't know the answer to.
If, in the same turn you play Mirrorweave targeting the Figure of Destiny, you play the FigureBear's first ability, and then its second ability, what with the Bear be when Mirrorweave's effect ends? Will it be
a) a 2/2 Kithkin Spirit? (The argument is that the condition, "if [THISCARD] is a Spirit", is checked all times, even after the ability has resolved)
b) a 4/4 Kithkin Spirit Warrior? (The argument is that the condition is only checked when the ability resolves, and if the condition is true, the creature becomes a 4/4 Kithkin Spirit Warrior even if it loses the creature type Spirit)
I'm leaning towards b) just because if it wouldn't make sense for a Nameless Inversion to kill the 4/4 (or 8/8) because it removes all creature types and sends it back to being a 2/2. But sometimes the rules don't make sense, so could someone enlighten me?
Well, since the effect of the ability makes it a Spirit anyways, once it happens it should stick. But even if it didn't I think the key word here is "becomes" which suggests that this is only checked when the ability resolves. If it said "as long as" instead then it would be a different story... I think you could also argue that if you activated two abilities on the same turn, the last resolved ability has to "cancel" out the first, since it can't simultaneously be a 2/2 and a 4/4, which implies the "becomes" is a 1-time check.
RadioEDIT: I'm quite certain my above ruling is correct. However, I have a piggyback question to which I don't know the answer to.
If, in the same turn you play Mirrorweave targeting the Figure of Destiny, you play the FigureBear's first ability, and then its second ability, what with the Bear be when Mirrorweave's effect ends? Will it be
a) a 2/2 Kithkin Spirit? (The argument is that the condition, "if [THISCARD] is a Spirit", is checked all times, even after the ability has resolved)
b) a 4/4 Kithkin Spirit Warrior? (The argument is that the condition is only checked when the ability resolves, and if the condition is true, the creature becomes a 4/4 Kithkin Spirit Warrior even if it loses the creature type Spirit)
I'm leaning towards b) just because if it wouldn't make sense for a Nameless Inversion to kill the 4/4 (or 8/8) because it removes all creature types and sends it back to being a 2/2. But sometimes the rules don't make sense, so could someone enlighten me?
The "If Figure of Destiny is a Spirit" part of the ability is only checked on resolution. The ability that makes it a 4/4 does not have a duration, so it will continue to apply to the permanent regardless what happens.
A similar ability would be any of the Opal creatures from Urza's Saga (Opal Archangel). The condition will be checked (is it an enchantment?) when the trigger resolves. If yes, it becomes a 5/5 Angel With Vigilance and Flying, but ceases to be an enchantment. If the continuous ability continued to check "is this an enchantment?" after the effect resolves, the card would not even function.
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There is a Figure of Destiny and 1 Grizzly Bears in play. The Figure of Destiny's first ability is activated and resolves making it a 2/2.
The FoD is targeted by Mirrorweave and this resolves. The Grizzly Bears becomes a 1/1 Figure of Destiny, and then it's ability is activated making it a 2/2.
The turn ends and the next turn begins. The former Bears is now a 2/2 Kithkin Spirit named Grizzly Bears? Is this correct?
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RadioEDIT: I'm quite certain my above ruling is correct. However, I have a piggyback question to which I don't know the answer to.
If, in the same turn you play Mirrorweave targeting the Figure of Destiny, you play the FigureBear's first ability, and then its second ability, what with the Bear be when Mirrorweave's effect ends? Will it be
a) a 2/2 Kithkin Spirit? (The argument is that the condition, "if [THISCARD] is a Spirit", is checked all times, even after the ability has resolved)
b) a 4/4 Kithkin Spirit Warrior? (The argument is that the condition is only checked when the ability resolves, and if the condition is true, the creature becomes a 4/4 Kithkin Spirit Warrior even if it loses the creature type Spirit)
I'm leaning towards b) just because if it wouldn't make sense for a Nameless Inversion to kill the 4/4 (or 8/8) because it removes all creature types and sends it back to being a 2/2. But sometimes the rules don't make sense, so could someone enlighten me?
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I'm pretty sure this doesn't make sense, but I'll wait for a judge to weigh in...
Thought so, but hopefully a judge can back this up.
Well, since the effect of the ability makes it a Spirit anyways, once it happens it should stick. But even if it didn't I think the key word here is "becomes" which suggests that this is only checked when the ability resolves. If it said "as long as" instead then it would be a different story... I think you could also argue that if you activated two abilities on the same turn, the last resolved ability has to "cancel" out the first, since it can't simultaneously be a 2/2 and a 4/4, which implies the "becomes" is a 1-time check.
The "If Figure of Destiny is a Spirit" part of the ability is only checked on resolution. The ability that makes it a 4/4 does not have a duration, so it will continue to apply to the permanent regardless what happens.
A similar ability would be any of the Opal creatures from Urza's Saga (Opal Archangel). The condition will be checked (is it an enchantment?) when the trigger resolves. If yes, it becomes a 5/5 Angel With Vigilance and Flying, but ceases to be an enchantment. If the continuous ability continued to check "is this an enchantment?" after the effect resolves, the card would not even function.