Basically, when you play the spell you RFG cards from the top of your library until you hit a nonland card with CMC less than (or equal to?) the double cast spell's manacost. You play the revealed spell for free and put the RFG'd cards on the bottom of your library in any order.
Except I don't think you will ever RFG them. It would rather say: "Reveal cards from the top of your library until..." and "put the rest of the revealed cards on the bottom of your library in any order." or something similar.
this seems incredibly broken. like, wow broken. free wraths, cryptics, etc. this seems like it is going to really impact the environment. plus, it seems like it is counter resistant, since regardless of if the original is countered, the doublecast still happens
this seems incredibly broken. like, wow broken. free wraths, cryptics, etc. this seems like it is going to really impact the environment. plus, it seems like it is counter resistant, since regardless of if the original is countered, the doublecast still happens
Actually it seems like they can counter both reliant on them having 2 counter spells and mana (it says play without paying for it rather than put into play...)
this seems incredibly broken. like, wow broken. free wraths, cryptics, etc. this seems like it is going to really impact the environment. plus, it seems like it is counter resistant, since regardless of if the original is countered, the doublecast still happens
If they don't print too many really powerful spells with this ability I don't think this will be too big of a problem. If the 1st spell doesn't break the game, you can counter the free spell with the wording the way it is. This is an ability that has me very excited. I hope it shows up in other blocks.
I'll just answer my own question, you may correct me if i get it wrong.
1 Bituminous Blast played. Stack: A
2 Thrumming Stone triggers. Ripple 4 (pile of revealed cards set aside: R1)
3 Bituminous Blast played. Stack: B
4 Thrumming Stone triggers, Ripple 4 (nothing found) (pile of revealed cards set aside: R2)
5 B Cascade trigger resolves (place rfg cards in pile: C1)
6 Shock played. Stack: C
7 Thrumming Stone triggers. Ripple 4 (pile of revealed cards set aside: R3)
8 Shock played. Stack: D
7 Thrumming Stone triggers, Ripple 4 (nothing found) (pile of revealed cards set aside: R4)
9 A Cascade triggers. (place rfg cards into pile: C2)
10 Incinerate played. Stack: E
11 Thrumming Stone triggers, Ripple 4 (pile of revealed cards set aside: R5)
12 Incinerate played. Stack: F
13 Thrumming Stone triggers. Ripple 4 (nothing found) (pile of revealed cards set aside: R6)
Stack Resolution: F E D C B A
Bottom of library resolution: R6 R5 C2 R4 R3 C1 R2 R1
Have fun making separate piles of revealed cards and rfg cards.
I think for standard to be a "healthy" format they need combo, and I mean real combo like Heartbeat, storm, etc; not this Devoted druid crap. I really hope cascade provides this missing decktype to the current format. Also I always thought that the ripple ability resolved after the spell? Edit: never mind finally thought back to the horror of triple coldsnap draft and remembered that you are right
On a side note, I believe that they would not have printed a new cranial extraction unless there was a combo deck that they discovered in testing to hose with it.
From my understanding, The expected Comp Rules Update for Alara Reborn's Mechanic.
Cascade Means.
(as per the Reminder Text)
(When you play this spell, remove cards from the top of your library from the game until you remove a non-land that costs less. You may play it without paying it's mana cost. Put the removed cards on the bottom of your library in a random order.)
As i would understand this....
When you play Bituminous Blast, remove the top card of your library, (then Ask, Is this a Land?, If Yes, NEXT card) (Then Ask does this cost less than 5?, If yes, NEXT card.) If it's NOT a land, and costs LESS than 5, You may play it, without paying it's mana cost, ignoring all timing restrictions, (so if it's a Creature, put it into play, barring counterspells, ect) If it's a Planeswalker (Do the Same) If it's an instant (Do the Same) If it's a Sorcery (Do the Same)... The Rules of the Stack would still apply, so First in Last Out, still applies. If it's a Permanent, it goes on the stack like any other Spell, if it resolves, put it into play.
Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
So now the interesting question becomes the wording being costs less, instead of with a lower converted mana cost than this spell. This would seem to mean that cascade could not play spells like ancestral vision since while the converted mana cost is 0 the actual cost is undefined and therefore not less than whatever cascade spell is played. Am I right in thinking this? Hmmm thinking about it, the nonland clause in the reminder text would be kind of unnecessary then since lands also have no mana cost. Maybe it's just to make the wording flow better?
anything that doesn't have a mana cost is considered to have a CMC =0 same with anything that has X, x=0, So if the topdeck is a Banefire you may cast it without paying the mana cost, or you can cast it and use the mana cost, to pump up the X and do extra love damage. If the Topdeck is Ancestral Visions you can play it and draw 3 cards, as it has no mana cost, as per this Weeks Cranial Insertion (same Principal, different wording)
A: You sure can. Evermind's converted mana cost is zero, and that's way less than three. And since you're playing it without paying its mana cost, you're allowed to play it even though it doesn't have one.
Same thing would generally work for Cascadde interactions. but without the Actual CompRules and the Entry for ARB available, yet. it's assumed this is how it works.
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Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
So if the topdeck is a Banefire you may cast it without paying the mana cost, or you can cast it and use the mana cost, to pump up the X and do extra love damage.
The first half is correct. The second half is not correct.
When an effect states that you may play something without paying its mana cost it is giving you one option: play the spell without paying its mana cost. It is not specifying that you play the spell and you get to choose whether you pay for it or not.
Flipping over a Banefire via cascade isn't going to be very helpful since you have no option to pay for X.
The first half is correct. The second half is not correct.
When an effect states that you may play something without paying its mana cost it is giving you one option: play the spell without paying its mana cost. It is not specifying that you play the spell and you get to choose whether you pay for it or not.
Flipping over a Banefire via cascade isn't going to be very helpful since you have no option to pay for X.
cascade only works if its played as a spell right?
beacause if i try to use a master transmuter on a enigma sphix to bounce it and play it again,cascade wont take effect right?
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So a new ability has been somewhat revealed in MikeyG's new post:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=155208
Can someone please simplify it so I can understand the new term/ability?
(please try not to be too harsh. I have a cold and am having trouble comprehending it.)
I think.
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i hope not
id rather see combo decks in standard again instead of all the same boring creature crap that it is right now.
Losing to a mulldrifter is pretty lame.
I like Turtles
Actually it seems like they can counter both reliant on them having 2 counter spells and mana (it says play without paying for it rather than put into play...)
If they don't print too many really powerful spells with this ability I don't think this will be too big of a problem. If the 1st spell doesn't break the game, you can counter the free spell with the wording the way it is. This is an ability that has me very excited. I hope it shows up in other blocks.
you reveal cards until you hit a non-land card with CMC 4 or less, then cast it for free, everything else goes on the bottom of your library.
you keep searching even if you reveal another tar shard or demigod of revenge
official rules advisor. it gets me there.
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Cascade is the correct name for what we've been calling double cast.
I'll just answer my own question, you may correct me if i get it wrong.
1 Bituminous Blast played. Stack: A
2 Thrumming Stone triggers. Ripple 4 (pile of revealed cards set aside: R1)
3 Bituminous Blast played. Stack: B
4 Thrumming Stone triggers, Ripple 4 (nothing found) (pile of revealed cards set aside: R2)
5 B Cascade trigger resolves (place rfg cards in pile: C1)
6 Shock played. Stack: C
7 Thrumming Stone triggers. Ripple 4 (pile of revealed cards set aside: R3)
8 Shock played. Stack: D
7 Thrumming Stone triggers, Ripple 4 (nothing found) (pile of revealed cards set aside: R4)
9 A Cascade triggers. (place rfg cards into pile: C2)
10 Incinerate played. Stack: E
11 Thrumming Stone triggers, Ripple 4 (pile of revealed cards set aside: R5)
12 Incinerate played. Stack: F
13 Thrumming Stone triggers. Ripple 4 (nothing found) (pile of revealed cards set aside: R6)
Stack Resolution: F E D C B A
Bottom of library resolution: R6 R5 C2 R4 R3 C1 R2 R1
Have fun making separate piles of revealed cards and rfg cards.
makes me want to make a deck
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lol, i think losing to a land is worse.
On a side note, I believe that they would not have printed a new cranial extraction unless there was a combo deck that they discovered in testing to hose with it.
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Unconfirmed, and hopfully not happening. It would be begining of a lock down from hell
"TIMMY!"
Cascade Means.
(as per the Reminder Text)
(When you play this spell, remove cards from the top of your library from the game until you remove a non-land that costs less. You may play it without paying it's mana cost. Put the removed cards on the bottom of your library in a random order.)
As i would understand this....
When you play Bituminous Blast, remove the top card of your library, (then Ask, Is this a Land?, If Yes, NEXT card) (Then Ask does this cost less than 5?, If yes, NEXT card.) If it's NOT a land, and costs LESS than 5, You may play it, without paying it's mana cost, ignoring all timing restrictions, (so if it's a Creature, put it into play, barring counterspells, ect) If it's a Planeswalker (Do the Same) If it's an instant (Do the Same) If it's a Sorcery (Do the Same)... The Rules of the Stack would still apply, so First in Last Out, still applies. If it's a Permanent, it goes on the stack like any other Spell, if it resolves, put it into play.
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
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Same thing would generally work for Cascadde interactions. but without the Actual CompRules and the Entry for ARB available, yet. it's assumed this is how it works.
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
The first half is correct. The second half is not correct.
When an effect states that you may play something without paying its mana cost it is giving you one option: play the spell without paying its mana cost. It is not specifying that you play the spell and you get to choose whether you pay for it or not.
Flipping over a Banefire via cascade isn't going to be very helpful since you have no option to pay for X.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
However, Flipping a Rise of the Hobgoblins could get you some tokens.
Cascade seems broken.
About Mindslaver rulings:
beacause if i try to use a master transmuter on a enigma sphix to bounce it and play it again,cascade wont take effect right?