Player A casts a spell, which is then exiled, then chooses to cast a Sorcery or Instant that Player B exiled. Does said Sorcery/Instant go into Player A's graveyard or Player B's graveyard?
Jace bounce was a -1. He could do it 3 times before he would die. Liliana can only do it once before having to do her +1. Overall very disappointed with her unless we get Madness.
Crap, you're right, she's not as good as one of the single most overpowered cards ever printed. Unplayable!
1. I control two Knowledge Pools. When a player casts a spell, does he choose which Pool to dip into, or do I choose which Pool he dips into because I control the Pool triggers (do I?). Is turn order relevant for who chooses the Pool trigger order?
2. I control Pool A and my opponent controls Pool B. If I cast a spell during my turn, I'll be trading into Pool B, correct (because it will go onto the stack second)? And during my opponent's turn, into Pool A?
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A voice for Timmy.
Commander R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
1. I control two Knowledge Pools. When a player casts a spell, does he choose which Pool to dip into, or do I choose which Pool he dips into because I control the Pool triggers (do I?). Is turn order relevant for who chooses the Pool trigger order?
You control the triggers, so you order them however you want. It doesn't matter who's turn it is in this case.
2. I control Pool A and my opponent controls Pool B. If I cast a spell during my turn, I'll be trading into Pool B, correct (because it will go onto the stack second)? And during my opponent's turn, into Pool A?
In this case, who's turn it is matters. You are correct. The active player's triggers go on the stack first and resolve last. So on your turn his Pool eats your spell, and on his turn your Pool eats the spell.
Is the Imprint ability linked to anything at all?
Since it says that "that player exiles it", does it count as a "nonland card exiled with knowledge pool"?
Is the Imprint ability linked to anything at all?
Since it says that "that player exiles it", does it count as a "nonland card exiled with knowledge pool"?
This may clarify how the card works:
Three players (A, B, and C) in the game. When Knowledge Pool's comes-into-play ability resolves, each of these players exiles the top 3 cards of their library. (we'll call them 1, 2, and 3) So, we have 9 cards exiled:
A1, A2, A3, B1, B2, B3, C1, C2, C3
Player A plays a card from their hand. (we'll call it A4) Knowledge Pool triggers, and A can choose to exile A4. If he/she does, they can then choose among the previous 9 cards and play it for free.
So, let's say A chooses C2 as the card to play. A plays it for free, and it goes into C's graveyard. (as they own the card, and cards owned by one player can't go into another player's graveyard) Now, there are still nine cards exiled via Knowledge Pool:
A1, A2, A3, A4, B1, B2, B3, C1, C3
So, if B plays a spell, they can choose A4 as the card to play via Knowledge Pool's ability, as well as the other eight cards.
1. When you cast a card(not from the pool) and exile it, does it go to the pool?
2. When everything in the pool has been cast, subsequent casting of cards get exiled? Does that mean no more casting ever because I don't see a 'may' clause.
Edit: I think the poster above answered my question already
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"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
- H. L. Mencken
Player A plays a card from their hand. (we'll call it A4) Knowledge Pool triggers, and A can choose to exile A4. If he/she does, they can then choose among the previous 9 cards and play it for free.
Correction. A does not get a choice on whether A4 is exiled. When the Pool's triggered ability resolves A4 will be exiled if it is still on the stack. The "if you do" part is to prevent shenanigans with Dovescape and the like; if a spell is countered (or otherwise removed from the stack somehow) before the Pool can exile it that player doesn't get a free spell from the pool.
2. When everything in the pool has been cast, subsequent casting of cards get exiled? Does that mean no more casting ever because I don't see a 'may' clause.
Barring lots of Riftsweepers that shouldn't happen. The pool works on a one-in, one-out basis. If you don't put a spell in you don't get one out. The pool should always contain 3 * X spells where X is the number of players.
Let me see if I got this right, because this is one confusing card at a glance.
Scenario:
I play Knowledge Pool. It resolves.
My opponent and I both exile our top 3.
My top 3: Plains, Island, Counterspell
Opponents Top 3: Blightsteel Colossus, Swamp, Terror
I then cast Memnite. It gets exiled and put into the Knowledge Pool and I take Blightsteel Colossus.
Right?
Add:
In response to my casting Memnite, my opponent casts Lightning Bolt and exiles it, picking Counterspell. Can that Counterspell target my Memnite, and negate my free BSC?
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~In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded.~ Fu's Cab - Retired! ||| Trade thread dead for now; returning soon! One day I will alt. art my Jace, The Mind Sculptors into 'Mentok! The Mind Takers!' Quotes
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Mr. Fu, your leaving of MTGnews' humor forum killed it. KILLLED IT!
In response to my casting Memnite, my opponent casts Lightning Bolt and exiles it, picking Counterspell. Can that Counterspell target my Memnite, and negate my free BSC?
Yes. Because the Memnite wasn't exiled by the Pool's triggered ability you won't get anything. The better option for your opponent: cast the Bolt and take the BSC for himself.
Thanks. Even understanding it, this card hurts my brain!
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Mr. Fu, your leaving of MTGnews' humor forum killed it. KILLLED IT!
When I cast a spell from my hand, I pick the spell that I want out of the pool. My opponent casts an instant in response, and they pick the same card as me. They hen get to take the card that I want, yes?
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You are a nerd if you see Gitaxian Probe and think the flavor text should be: "Prisoner Zero has escaped! Prisoner Zero has escaped!!"
Personal Laws:
1. Maintain the favorable state.
2. Try harder.
3. Rules exist for a reason. If by breaking or ignoring a rule you fulfill the purpose of said rule at least as well as if you had followed it, then said rule should be duly broken or ignored.
You don't choose a card from the Pool until its second triggered ability has resolved so it's best not to announce which card you'll choose until then. Otherwise your opponent can cast an instant in response and take the card you'd like.
And the first spell that I cast is exiled, similar to if Archive Trap had been used, only it goes into this pool of cards that can then be used later?
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You are a nerd if you see Gitaxian Probe and think the flavor text should be: "Prisoner Zero has escaped! Prisoner Zero has escaped!!"
Personal Laws:
1. Maintain the favorable state.
2. Try harder.
3. Rules exist for a reason. If by breaking or ignoring a rule you fulfill the purpose of said rule at least as well as if you had followed it, then said rule should be duly broken or ignored.
Assuming you have Shimmer Myr or Leyline of Anticipation and you flash in the Knowledge Pool in response to your opponent casting say a Primeval Titan, will Primeval be exiled kinda like a counter spell? Also it's ability won't trigger until someone takes the titan right?
No. The Pool has to be on the battlefield before a spell is cast for it to see the spell being cast and then trigger. Flashing in the Pool while a spell is on the stack has no effect on that spell resolving.
So, if B plays a spell, they can choose A4 as the card to play via Knowledge Pool's ability, as well as the other eight cards.
It's important to note that if any of the removed cards are lands, they won't be able to be chosen. Also, when you exile something to the Pool, you're allowed to choose nothing. If the only thing left to choose is Phage the Untouchable, you're not forced to lose the game just for casting something. Though, you could use Mindslaver or Sorin Markov to make someone do that..
2. When everything in the pool has been cast, subsequent casting of cards get exiled? Does that mean no more casting ever because I don't see a 'may' clause.
The Pool says you may cast any card that is exiled with it (not just cards that were exiled from the top of your libraries). Even if the Pool has nothing that you want (or nothing that can be used), players can still cast something and exile it (choosing to get nothing in return), then cast something else afterward to trade for that spell (or not).
Barring lots of Riftsweepers that shouldn't happen. The pool works on a one-in, one-out basis. If you don't put a spell in you don't get one out. The pool should always contain 3 * X spells where X is the number of players.
That's not entirely correct. You're right that you don't get a spell out if you don't put one in, but the pool works on a one-in, up-to-one-out basis (unless a Riftsweeper or Pull from Eternity is in the pool, in which case adding something to the pool can allow someone to cast something to trade for one of them in order to remove something from the Pool for a net loss of one card). If you put a spell in, you don't have to get one out. That would mean the pool will have 3 * X cards to start with (where X is the number players). The lands that are removed can't be used, so you can subtract those from the total that can be used. Any time someone adds something without removing something will add to the total, while any time someone uses a Riftsweeper or Pull from Eternity to remove something will subtract from the total.
Also, it seems important to note that if someone is trying to trade for something in the Pool, you have to remove it before they choose it (since as explained by Nis, once the trigger resolves you cannot respond by removing what they pick). This doesn't mean that they can announce what they want to pick and prevent you from removing it - If they announce what it is before giving you time to respond, it's pretty much their fault for telling you what they intend to go for before they are actually getting it. I suggest you be very careful about how you go about doing this. If you plan on casting something at instant speed, do not ask people what they are going for first because it can be assumed that you mean you don't have a response and are letting them pick something from the Pool.
Anyone have a guess on how this effects cards with Cascade? In our EDH circle it came up at the Besieged Prerelease. According to the Comp Rules (rule 502.85)
... 502.85a Cascade is a triggered ability that functions only while the spell with cascade is on the stack...
As Knowledge pool exiles the spell it is not on the stack and the argument was made that the Cascade effect never triggered. Does it make it to the stack (and is then removed allowing for the Cascade to trigger) or is it removed before the stack is formed (nullifying Cascade completely as when it is played from Knowledge Pool it is not played from your hand)?
The cascade spells certainly make it to the stack, with the triggers from cascade and knowledge pool on top. By the time knowledge pools trigger resolves, the trigger from cascade is already on the stack, possibly even resolved depending on which way they triggered, but the cascade ability will go off.
It is comparable to countering a spell with cascade. By countering Bloodbraid Elf you still don't stop the cascaded spell. As far as I know, that was the point of double negative. You wait for cascade to resolve and them to put the new spell on the stack before playing double negative so that you can counter both spells at once.
So yes, cascade still resolves.
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Anyone have a guess on how this effects cards with Cascade? In our EDH circle it came up at the Besieged Prerelease. According to the Comp Rules (rule 502.85)
... 502.85a Cascade is a triggered ability that functions only while the spell with cascade is on the stack...
As Knowledge pool exiles the spell it is not on the stack and the argument was made that the Cascade effect never triggered. Does it make it to the stack (and is then removed allowing for the Cascade to trigger) or is it removed before the stack is formed (nullifying Cascade completely as when it is played from Knowledge Pool it is not played from your hand)?
My guess is that as long as you stack the triggers as Knowledge Pool first and cascade second, you'll get to cascade. Going off of that guess, though, would mean the new spell would trigger Knowledge Pool and let you pick a different spell in the Pool. After that, the first spell would finally go into the Pool and could trade for the spell you cascaded into (if you wanted to). Also, whenever you trade for something in the Pool that has cascade, you get to cascade again. Every time that you cascade into something that has cascade, it gets a little bit sillier. Basically with a few cascade spells available, it's possible that you could get a good chunk of your deck played for casting one spell.
The cascade spells certainly make it to the stack, with the triggers from cascade and knowledge pool on top. By the time knowledge pools trigger resolves, the trigger from cascade is already on the stack, possibly even resolved depending on which way they triggered, but the cascade ability will go off.
Actually, yea.. that sounds right. So even if they order it the other way, it still works. So that would mean you could play Bituminous Blast to get something from the pool, then cascade into something from the Bituminous Blast trigger. That new spell could trade for the Bituminous Blast in the pool now, which could cascade into something else.. ugh. Each time, they can decide whether they want to cascade first or trade for something in the pool first. This seems highly exploitable. I want to try it out now.
Currently Playing:
I don't even know right now.
Level 2 Judge since 12/01/2012
-On Liliana of the Veil
2. I control Pool A and my opponent controls Pool B. If I cast a spell during my turn, I'll be trading into Pool B, correct (because it will go onto the stack second)? And during my opponent's turn, into Pool A?
Commander
R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control
GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock
WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
You control the triggers, so you order them however you want. It doesn't matter who's turn it is in this case.
In this case, who's turn it is matters. You are correct. The active player's triggers go on the stack first and resolve last. So on your turn his Pool eats your spell, and on his turn your Pool eats the spell.
Since it says that "that player exiles it", does it count as a "nonland card exiled with knowledge pool"?
This may clarify how the card works:
Three players (A, B, and C) in the game. When Knowledge Pool's comes-into-play ability resolves, each of these players exiles the top 3 cards of their library. (we'll call them 1, 2, and 3) So, we have 9 cards exiled:
A1, A2, A3, B1, B2, B3, C1, C2, C3
Player A plays a card from their hand. (we'll call it A4) Knowledge Pool triggers, and A can choose to exile A4. If he/she does, they can then choose among the previous 9 cards and play it for free.
So, let's say A chooses C2 as the card to play. A plays it for free, and it goes into C's graveyard. (as they own the card, and cards owned by one player can't go into another player's graveyard) Now, there are still nine cards exiled via Knowledge Pool:
A1, A2, A3, A4, B1, B2, B3, C1, C3
So, if B plays a spell, they can choose A4 as the card to play via Knowledge Pool's ability, as well as the other eight cards.
静
2. When everything in the pool has been cast, subsequent casting of cards get exiled? Does that mean no more casting ever because I don't see a 'may' clause.
Edit: I think the poster above answered my question already
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
Correction. A does not get a choice on whether A4 is exiled. When the Pool's triggered ability resolves A4 will be exiled if it is still on the stack. The "if you do" part is to prevent shenanigans with Dovescape and the like; if a spell is countered (or otherwise removed from the stack somehow) before the Pool can exile it that player doesn't get a free spell from the pool.
Barring lots of Riftsweepers that shouldn't happen. The pool works on a one-in, one-out basis. If you don't put a spell in you don't get one out. The pool should always contain 3 * X spells where X is the number of players.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Scenario:
I play Knowledge Pool. It resolves.
My opponent and I both exile our top 3.
My top 3: Plains, Island, Counterspell
Opponents Top 3: Blightsteel Colossus, Swamp, Terror
I then cast Memnite. It gets exiled and put into the Knowledge Pool and I take Blightsteel Colossus.
Right?
Add:
In response to my casting Memnite, my opponent casts Lightning Bolt and exiles it, picking Counterspell. Can that Counterspell target my Memnite, and negate my free BSC?
~In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded.~
Fu's Cab - Retired! ||| Trade thread dead for now; returning soon!
One day I will alt. art my Jace, The Mind Sculptors into 'Mentok! The Mind Takers!'
Quotes
Yes.
Yes. Because the Memnite wasn't exiled by the Pool's triggered ability you won't get anything. The better option for your opponent: cast the Bolt and take the BSC for himself.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
~In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded.~
Fu's Cab - Retired! ||| Trade thread dead for now; returning soon!
One day I will alt. art my Jace, The Mind Sculptors into 'Mentok! The Mind Takers!'
Quotes
Personal Laws:
1. Maintain the favorable state.
2. Try harder.
3. Rules exist for a reason. If by breaking or ignoring a rule you fulfill the purpose of said rule at least as well as if you had followed it, then said rule should be duly broken or ignored.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Personal Laws:
1. Maintain the favorable state.
2. Try harder.
3. Rules exist for a reason. If by breaking or ignoring a rule you fulfill the purpose of said rule at least as well as if you had followed it, then said rule should be duly broken or ignored.
H: Grave Titan, Jace 1.0, Fauna Shaman, Blightsteel Colossus W: Mox Opals, Revoker, T2.0 Duals
No. The Pool has to be on the battlefield before a spell is cast for it to see the spell being cast and then trigger. Flashing in the Pool while a spell is on the stack has no effect on that spell resolving.
The Titan's EtB ability won't trigger until it actually enters the battlefield. That won't happen until the Titan spell resolves.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
H: Grave Titan, Jace 1.0, Fauna Shaman, Blightsteel Colossus W: Mox Opals, Revoker, T2.0 Duals
You can't respond to the tapping of lands for mana(Or any permanent tapping for mana for that matter).
Your best bet is to throw it out during the upkeep.
Currently Playing:
I don't even know right now.
It's important to note that if any of the removed cards are lands, they won't be able to be chosen. Also, when you exile something to the Pool, you're allowed to choose nothing. If the only thing left to choose is Phage the Untouchable, you're not forced to lose the game just for casting something. Though, you could use Mindslaver or Sorin Markov to make someone do that..
The Pool says you may cast any card that is exiled with it (not just cards that were exiled from the top of your libraries). Even if the Pool has nothing that you want (or nothing that can be used), players can still cast something and exile it (choosing to get nothing in return), then cast something else afterward to trade for that spell (or not).
That's not entirely correct. You're right that you don't get a spell out if you don't put one in, but the pool works on a one-in, up-to-one-out basis (unless a Riftsweeper or Pull from Eternity is in the pool, in which case adding something to the pool can allow someone to cast something to trade for one of them in order to remove something from the Pool for a net loss of one card). If you put a spell in, you don't have to get one out. That would mean the pool will have 3 * X cards to start with (where X is the number players). The lands that are removed can't be used, so you can subtract those from the total that can be used. Any time someone adds something without removing something will add to the total, while any time someone uses a Riftsweeper or Pull from Eternity to remove something will subtract from the total.
Also, it seems important to note that if someone is trying to trade for something in the Pool, you have to remove it before they choose it (since as explained by Nis, once the trigger resolves you cannot respond by removing what they pick). This doesn't mean that they can announce what they want to pick and prevent you from removing it - If they announce what it is before giving you time to respond, it's pretty much their fault for telling you what they intend to go for before they are actually getting it. I suggest you be very careful about how you go about doing this. If you plan on casting something at instant speed, do not ask people what they are going for first because it can be assumed that you mean you don't have a response and are letting them pick something from the Pool.
H: Grave Titan, Jace 1.0, Fauna Shaman, Blightsteel Colossus W: Mox Opals, Revoker, T2.0 Duals
I'm not sure what you mean. The Pool will trigger once for each spell cast. The exiled spell won't resolve at all so any of its effects won't happen.
Yes. It's a pretty nasty combo.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
... 502.85a Cascade is a triggered ability that functions only while the spell with cascade is on the stack...
As Knowledge pool exiles the spell it is not on the stack and the argument was made that the Cascade effect never triggered. Does it make it to the stack (and is then removed allowing for the Cascade to trigger) or is it removed before the stack is formed (nullifying Cascade completely as when it is played from Knowledge Pool it is not played from your hand)?
EDH: ZurUBW, Leroy Jenkins (Norin the Wary)R, Nicol BolasRBU, Arcum DagssonU, Sharuum, the HegemonUBW, Captain SisayGW, Hazezon TamarGWR
It is comparable to countering a spell with cascade. By countering Bloodbraid Elf you still don't stop the cascaded spell. As far as I know, that was the point of double negative. You wait for cascade to resolve and them to put the new spell on the stack before playing double negative so that you can counter both spells at once.
So yes, cascade still resolves.
My guess is that as long as you stack the triggers as Knowledge Pool first and cascade second, you'll get to cascade. Going off of that guess, though, would mean the new spell would trigger Knowledge Pool and let you pick a different spell in the Pool. After that, the first spell would finally go into the Pool and could trade for the spell you cascaded into (if you wanted to). Also, whenever you trade for something in the Pool that has cascade, you get to cascade again. Every time that you cascade into something that has cascade, it gets a little bit sillier. Basically with a few cascade spells available, it's possible that you could get a good chunk of your deck played for casting one spell.
Actually, yea.. that sounds right. So even if they order it the other way, it still works. So that would mean you could play Bituminous Blast to get something from the pool, then cascade into something from the Bituminous Blast trigger. That new spell could trade for the Bituminous Blast in the pool now, which could cascade into something else.. ugh. Each time, they can decide whether they want to cascade first or trade for something in the pool first. This seems highly exploitable. I want to try it out now.