However, "Set aside" also has no game meaning. You can reference all other instances of "set aside" on older cards having errata to become "exile" (with the sole exception of Free for All, an Un-card, all of which do not receive errata). So if to "Set aside" = "exile", then to exile cards that are already exiled does nothing.
Restarting the game should be as simple as that. Ask what everything looked like right after everyone sat down at the table to play. Minus the Karn effect, return to that point.
According to the MTR, the game is considered to have begun after all players have completed mulligan decisions. There is no way to return to that point. The point after which all players have sat down would be the beginning of the match, as players are not permitted to leave the table during the match without a judge's permission. The comprehensive rules are even less clear about when the pre-game procedures end and the actual game begins. There is really no way to make any grounded argument for what "restart the game" means until Wizards officially (a) confirms Karn as a genuine printed card, and (b) adds rules to support his text.
We can only reasonably speculate on the card's function within current game rules. Of course they update rules for new mechanics at every set release. The fact that so much of his ultimate ability has no functionality in the current game rules is highly suspect, and is the reason I don't expect it to be a real card as spoiled here.
Today we got the whole FAQ on Karn, and with it the answer.
To start, players that have been defeated DO NOT get back in on the game. Let me say that again. if you are in a multiplayer game and you are eliminated, you will NOT start over with the rest of the players when Karn's ultimate goes off.
Here's the whole FAQ
Quote from WOTC Karn, Liberated FAQ »
* Karn's first and third abilities are linked. Similarly, Karn's second and third abilities are linked. Only cards exiled by either of Karn's first two abilities will remain in exile when the game restarts.
* A game that restarts immediately ends. The players in that game then immediately begin a new game. No player wins, loses, or draws the original game as a result of Karn's ability.
* In a multiplayer game (a game that started with three or more players in it), any player that left the game before it was restarted with Karn's ability won't be involved in the new game.
* The player who controlled the ability that restarted the game is the starting player in the new game. The new game starts like a game normally does:
-- Each player shuffles his or her deck (except the cards left in exile by Karn's ability).
-- Each player's life total becomes 20 (or the starting life total for whatever format you're playing).
-- Players draw a hand of seven cards. Players may take mulligans.
-- Players may take actions based on cards in their opening hands, such as Chancellors and Leylines.
* After the pre-game procedure is complete, but before the new game's first turn, Karn's ability finishes resolving and the cards left in exile are put onto the battlefield. If this causes any triggered abilities to trigger, those abilities are put onto the stack at the beginning of the first upkeep step.
* Creatures put onto the battlefield due to Karn's ability will have been under their controller's control continuously since the beginning of the first turn. They can attack and their activated abilities with {T} in the cost can be activated.
* Any permanents put onto the battlefield with Karn's ability that entered the battlefield tapped will untap during their controller's first untap step.
* No actions taken in the game that was restarted apply to the new game. For example, if you were dealt damage by Stigma Lasher in the original game, the effect that states you can't gain life doesn't carry over to the new game.
* Players won't have any poison counters or emblems they had in the original game.
* In a Commander game, players put their commanders into the command zone before shuffling their deck.
* The number of times a player has cast his or her commander from the command zone resets to zero. Also, the amount of combat damage dealt to players by each commander is reset to 0.
* If a player's commander was exiled with Karn as the game restarted, that commander won't be put into the command zone at the beginning of the game. It will be put onto the battlefield when Karn's ability finishes resolving.
* In a multiplayer game using the limited range of influence option, all players are affected and will restart the game, not just those within the range of influence of the ability's controller.
This is basically exactly as I assumed it would be like. It's impossible to involve eliminated players as they take their belongings with them when they leave.
The source of the restart ability is the new starting player? That's a little screwy. What's the rationale: that you're restarting while you're the active player, so the new game begins with you as the active player? Once they print a card that can copy activated abilities, like a Fork that hits activated abilities instead of spells, that rationale will fall flat.
The source of the restart ability is the new starting player? That's a little screwy. What's the rationale: that you're restarting while you're the active player, so the new game begins with you as the active player? Once they print a card that can copy activated abilities, like a Fork that hits activated abilities instead of spells, that rationale will fall flat.
You mean like Rings of Brighthearth? I don't actually see this as a problem; if a player somehow copies the ability, the last copy created will resolve first(LIFO) and clear the other abilities from the stack.
I don't mean RoB because that affects only your own abilities. Copying an opponent's Karn ability with a hypothetical card, however, would apparently make you the starting player in the new game. There doesn't seem to be any logic behind that.
I don't mean RoB because that affects only your own abilities. Copying an opponent's Karn ability with a hypothetical card, however, would apparently make you the starting player in the new game. There doesn't seem to be any logic behind that.
This is MtG-Rules-Land. Being last to cast a spell and the first to see it go off doesn't make much sense either but that's how it works... And in the Karn case, I think it *does* make sense, since if you copied the ability you should get the benefit of it.
The non-inclusion of defeated players is likely more for practicality's sake: If in a tourney-level multiplayer game someone pops the ultimate and the defeated players have already left the event, that causes complications. I think everyone will house-rule and read it otherwise anyways.
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The non-inclusion of defeated players is likely more for practicality's sake: If in a tourney-level multiplayer game someone pops the ultimate and the defeated players have already left the event, that causes complications. I think everyone will house-rule and read it otherwise anyways.
Pretty sure there are no sanctioned formats where this is possible, since the only DCI-sanctioned multiplayer format is 2HG.
Yes, reading is tech.
However, "Set aside" also has no game meaning. You can reference all other instances of "set aside" on older cards having errata to become "exile" (with the sole exception of Free for All, an Un-card, all of which do not receive errata). So if to "Set aside" = "exile", then to exile cards that are already exiled does nothing.
According to the MTR, the game is considered to have begun after all players have completed mulligan decisions. There is no way to return to that point. The point after which all players have sat down would be the beginning of the match, as players are not permitted to leave the table during the match without a judge's permission. The comprehensive rules are even less clear about when the pre-game procedures end and the actual game begins. There is really no way to make any grounded argument for what "restart the game" means until Wizards officially (a) confirms Karn as a genuine printed card, and (b) adds rules to support his text.
We can only reasonably speculate on the card's function within current game rules. Of course they update rules for new mechanics at every set release. The fact that so much of his ultimate ability has no functionality in the current game rules is highly suspect, and is the reason I don't expect it to be a real card as spoiled here.
This FAQ answers many of the common questions asked in the MTGS Rulings forum. Take a look!
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To start, players that have been defeated DO NOT get back in on the game. Let me say that again. if you are in a multiplayer game and you are eliminated, you will NOT start over with the rest of the players when Karn's ultimate goes off.
Here's the whole FAQ
You mean like Rings of Brighthearth? I don't actually see this as a problem; if a player somehow copies the ability, the last copy created will resolve first(LIFO) and clear the other abilities from the stack.
This is MtG-Rules-Land. Being last to cast a spell and the first to see it go off doesn't make much sense either but that's how it works... And in the Karn case, I think it *does* make sense, since if you copied the ability you should get the benefit of it.
The non-inclusion of defeated players is likely more for practicality's sake: If in a tourney-level multiplayer game someone pops the ultimate and the defeated players have already left the event, that causes complications. I think everyone will house-rule and read it otherwise anyways.
Patch me back to my mind
Pretty sure there are no sanctioned formats where this is possible, since the only DCI-sanctioned multiplayer format is 2HG.
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I'm pretty sure there are none as well. I didn't necessarily mean DCI-sanctioned tourneys, but perhaps LGS-run EDH tourneys or something similar.
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