This thread really is funny. You guys make it sound like people will go to these great lengths to cheat without anyone noticing. If it becomes a problem, it's not hard to deal with it.
simple and easy way to do this, is to force people to play with proxies (yes, it costs WotC money in the long run) but they honestly dont care as they allow people to run up to X amount of proxies in other formats (admittedly, in those formats, the proxied cards are harder to obtain, such as power or other powerful cards) But it's a simple and yet easy to maintain a way to do it. As a TO or FLGS owner (i'm not, but i would have easy on hand proxies that i printed for such a tournament, it's realitively easy to print out 100+ copies of Howlpack Alpha and when the "transform" goes down, just put the paper copy over the sleeved Mayor of Avabruck) Also, for those people who wont or refuse to play with sleeves, that's what the checklist cards are for. In that case just have a 100+ copies of Mayor and 100+ copies of howlpack. For those that are suspicious of "cheaters" which will definitely come up, make it simple, For all the "checklist cards" people have, make them mark Everything, and the unmarked "dot" is the card. Yes it forces people to make unneeded markings on their checklist cards, but the checklist cards are going to likely come in every pack instead of the advertisement insert (or token insert, whichever wotc chooses to nuke) Because there aren't just 10 Transformable cards they'll have to have at least 3-4 different checklist cards for things to go smoothly. (and because this set's gimmick is transformables) so they wouldn't just limit it to 10 creatures, (we already know Garruk Relentless is a transformable card as well)
So easy, simple and straightforward. Mark all the "dots" and the unmarked one is the card you're playing with in your limited deck. Or even have the LGS owner print out 100+ copies of each of the checklist cards so people cant "mark X and say it's X when it's actually Y"
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simple and easy way to do this, is to force people to play with proxies (yes, it costs WotC money in the long run) but they honestly dont care as they allow people to run up to X amount of proxies in other formats (admittedly, in those formats, the proxied cards are harder to obtain, such as power or other powerful cards) But it's a simple and yet easy to maintain a way to do it. As a TO or FLGS owner (i'm not, but i would have easy on hand proxies that i printed for such a tournament, it's realitively easy to print out 100+ copies of Howlpack Alpha and when the "transform" goes down, just put the paper copy over the sleeved Mayor of Avabruck) Also, for those people who wont or refuse to play with sleeves, that's what the checklist cards are for. In that case just have a 100+ copies of Mayor and 100+ copies of howlpack. For those that are suspicious of "cheaters" which will definitely come up, make it simple, For all the "checklist cards" people have, make them mark Everything, and the unmarked "dot" is the card. Yes it forces people to make unneeded markings on their checklist cards, but the checklist cards are going to likely come in every pack instead of the advertisement insert (or token insert, whichever wotc chooses to nuke) Because there aren't just 10 Transformable cards they'll have to have at least 3-4 different checklist cards for things to go smoothly. (and because this set's gimmick is transformables) so they wouldn't just limit it to 10 creatures, (we already know Garruk Relentless is a transformable card as well)
So easy, simple and straightforward. Mark all the "dots" and the unmarked one is the card you're playing with in your limited deck. Or even have the LGS owner print out 100+ copies of each of the checklist cards so people cant "mark X and say it's X when it's actually Y"
Yeah... That's a really convoluted solution you got there that puts a lot on the store owner. We have a few game stores where I'm at, and 2 of the 3 owners don't even play, so I don't think theyd want to put forth that kind of effort. Really, I think you just force sleeves and ban checklists. It's simpler and it helps your local stores rather than straining them, and in this economy believe me, they can use the help.
I do not honestly care if my opponent plays 4 Garruk checklists in a Constructed deck while owning only one copy of Garruk. Or zero copies of Garruk, for that matter.
Now, if my opponent plays 4 Garruk checklists while having drafted only one copy of Garruk, that's more serious, but he could have added undrafted cards to his deck anyway. This isn't a problem that's unique to double-faced cards.
As for those who don't care if they actually own the card or not, you can go [Explitive Deleted] yourself. I put a lot of effort into getting the cards I own so I can use them. I have bills and a crap job, and I play on a budget, so I put a lot of time and energy into collecting using rotations, trading and lots of competitive play to build my collection. If you don't want to support the game, don't [Explitive Deleted] play. If you can't afford a particular card, find another deck to build or innovate a strategy to make the deck work without. Find yourself a method of playing the game with what you have. In the end you'll find yourself becoming a drastically better player for doing so, and appreciating the work that others go through to build a collection. If you like the idea of running proxies regularly and this offended you, GOOD! As said, I work hard to build my collection and I take pride in it. You thinking you should be able to proxy what you want is a slap in the face to myself, WoTC and every other hard working collector.
As for those who don't care if they actually own the card or not, you can go [Explitive Deleted] yourself. I put a lot of effort into getting the cards I own so I can use them. I have bills and a crap job, and I play on a budget, so I put a lot of time and energy into collecting using rotations, trading and lots of competitive play to build my collection. If you don't want to support the game, don't [Explitive Deleted] play. If you can't afford a particular card, find another deck to build or innovate a strategy to make the deck work without. Find yourself a method of playing the game with what you have. In the end you'll find yourself becoming a drastically better player for doing so, and appreciating the work that others go through to build a collection. If you like the idea of running proxies regularly and this offended you, GOOD! As said, I work hard to build my collection and I take pride in it. You thinking you should be able to proxy what you want is a slap in the face to myself, WoTC and every other hard working collector.
Uh, why are you flaming me?
Also, FYI, I would never proxy anything. Number 1, I can afford not to, and number 2, my opponents might not be okay with it. But if my opponents want to proxy stuff, great. When I go to play Magic, I want to play Magic, not to play "does my opponent have the resources to pay the going rate for planeswalkers."
Also, FYI, I would never proxy anything. Number 1, I can afford not to, and number 2, my opponents might not be okay with it. But if my opponents want to proxy stuff, great. When I go to play Magic, I want to play Magic, not to play "does my opponent have the resources to pay the going rate for planeswalkers."
It wasn't really directed at you, it was more directed at the people you forgive across the table. I like to see people working at their best, but I know that I manage to get what I need on a much more restrictive budget than most (I game on about $20 a week, including snacks and dinner for the day), and I know that if I can put the effort in to make that work and still get the cards I need, then others can too. I don't play cheap decks either, I've got my playset of Tezz, Mox Opals, Chrome Moxes, Original Duals, FoW and the works. I got it through a lot of time, skill and hard work. I learned to play well and build on a budget, then used prize to build from there. There's no good reason others, who complain but probably still have larger budgets than me, can't do the same.
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Pretty sure you also have to mark the power and toughness of the card (or starting loyalty in the case of Garruk) in addition to the mark, which alleviates the "just change the mark" issue quite a bit. Not having all of the actual cards that you have checklists marked for is really a non-issue, exept maaaaaaaaybe in draft, as this works the same as any other deck check. Yes, some people will try to cheat, but those people will try to cheat whether there are DFCs and checklists or not.
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"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
People who want to cheat to win will not play with DFC because they are all terrible.
As for limited formats, perhaps I should bring some perspective to the table.
Drawing an extra card during your draw step is the easiest thing to do from a dexterity requirement point of view AS WELL as having the most positive impact on your chances of winning the game. The only solutions to cheating you guys introduced involve an opponent who is not observant of you to work, but if I have one of those sitting across the table from me, why would I waste my time with trying to gain a small advantage out of an otherwise terrible set of cards when I could just draw 5 cards in 3 turns and call it a day.
Not to say I would personally cheat, but I find it laughable when people blow insignificant things out of proportion. It's like saying you want to run a forest/plains split card. Those cards are terrible so why bother :D?
So easy, simple and straightforward. Mark all the "dots" and the unmarked one is the card you're playing with in your limited deck. Or even have the LGS owner print out 100+ copies of each of the checklist cards so people cant "mark X and say it's X when it's actually Y"
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
Yeah... That's a really convoluted solution you got there that puts a lot on the store owner. We have a few game stores where I'm at, and 2 of the 3 owners don't even play, so I don't think theyd want to put forth that kind of effort. Really, I think you just force sleeves and ban checklists. It's simpler and it helps your local stores rather than straining them, and in this economy believe me, they can use the help.
As for those who don't care if they actually own the card or not, you can go [Explitive Deleted] yourself. I put a lot of effort into getting the cards I own so I can use them. I have bills and a crap job, and I play on a budget, so I put a lot of time and energy into collecting using rotations, trading and lots of competitive play to build my collection. If you don't want to support the game, don't [Explitive Deleted] play. If you can't afford a particular card, find another deck to build or innovate a strategy to make the deck work without. Find yourself a method of playing the game with what you have. In the end you'll find yourself becoming a drastically better player for doing so, and appreciating the work that others go through to build a collection. If you like the idea of running proxies regularly and this offended you, GOOD! As said, I work hard to build my collection and I take pride in it. You thinking you should be able to proxy what you want is a slap in the face to myself, WoTC and every other hard working collector.
Infraction for flaming. Keep it civil, everybody.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
Also, FYI, I would never proxy anything. Number 1, I can afford not to, and number 2, my opponents might not be okay with it. But if my opponents want to proxy stuff, great. When I go to play Magic, I want to play Magic, not to play "does my opponent have the resources to pay the going rate for planeswalkers."
It wasn't really directed at you, it was more directed at the people you forgive across the table. I like to see people working at their best, but I know that I manage to get what I need on a much more restrictive budget than most (I game on about $20 a week, including snacks and dinner for the day), and I know that if I can put the effort in to make that work and still get the cards I need, then others can too. I don't play cheap decks either, I've got my playset of Tezz, Mox Opals, Chrome Moxes, Original Duals, FoW and the works. I got it through a lot of time, skill and hard work. I learned to play well and build on a budget, then used prize to build from there. There's no good reason others, who complain but probably still have larger budgets than me, can't do the same.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
"I am confident that if anyone actually
penetrates our facades, even the most
perceptive would still be fundamentally
unprepared for the truth of House Dimir."
As for limited formats, perhaps I should bring some perspective to the table.
Drawing an extra card during your draw step is the easiest thing to do from a dexterity requirement point of view AS WELL as having the most positive impact on your chances of winning the game. The only solutions to cheating you guys introduced involve an opponent who is not observant of you to work, but if I have one of those sitting across the table from me, why would I waste my time with trying to gain a small advantage out of an otherwise terrible set of cards when I could just draw 5 cards in 3 turns and call it a day.
Not to say I would personally cheat, but I find it laughable when people blow insignificant things out of proportion. It's like saying you want to run a forest/plains split card. Those cards are terrible so why bother :D?
Care to explain why Savannah is $60?
[MANA]UB[/MANA] Draw, Go BU
GULorthodonUG
RBGNext Level JundGBR
I collect Mirror of Fate (18) and Darksteel Relic (5)!