Creature - Merfolk Wizard
Evolve (Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature has greater power or toughness than this creature, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.)
While I understand most of this card I would like to clear one question up I have before considering using this card when Gatecrash Rolls around. It says that when a creature enters the battlefield with higher Power and toughness than Simic, Simic gains +1/+1. Does this mean higher power and toughness than Simic without the counters or including the counters?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The things I once imagined would be my greatest achievements were only the first steps toward a future I can only begin to fathom."
-Jace Beleren
Power and toughness in this case considers all current applicable attributes including counters, effects from other permanents ("get +1/+1", etc), and temporary effects (overrun, etc) when calculating. So in this case it would include any current counters on the Fluxmage.
my question is,
if simic fluxmage is in the field and master of pearl trident comes in to play,
since it's a 2/2 lord,
does it give simic the evolve trigger since it's bigger in toughness? or will pearl's +1\+1 stat boost kick in making simic a 2/3 and avoid evolving?
I believe it would work like this:
1) Master of Pearl Trident resolves and enters the field
2) Simic Fluxmage puts its triggered ability on the stack
3) When the triggered ability resolves, the if clause is checked
Since Simic Fluxmage would be a 2/3 due to the Master's lord effect when the if clause is checked, he would not get a +1/+1 counter since neither the power nor the toughness of Master are greater than Simic when the ability resolves.
EDIT: Misunderstood how the intervening if clause will work. The if condition has to be true when the trigger is occurring to be put on the stack. It still will not work as the Master of Pearl Trident's static ability is applied as a state-based effect when it hits the field. So the if clause is not satisfied when the triggered ability checks and therefore is never put on the stack.
Could someone please clarify that this is the correct interpretation? Do to the if clause, the trigger checks before it is put on the stack as opposed to being put on the stack and checking on resolution.
It won't work with the Master of the Pearl Trident: when Master enters the field, his ability is applied immediately, the Fluxmage becomes a 2/3 and his ability has no reasons to trigger.
If you have the fluxmage and 3x 2/2 creatures enters the battlefield at the same time, does the the fluxmage get 3x +1/+1 counters?
No, it only resolves once.
While the 3 2/2 creatures may enter at the same time (a la Thatcher Revolt), each creature causes evolve to trigger separately. Each trigger has to go on the stack one after the other.
top of stack
evolve trigger
evolve trigger
evolve trigger
bottom of stack
The first trigger resolves, checks the creature's power and toughness, sees the power being higher, gives SF a +1/+1 counter. Now, when the second and third triggers resolve, it'll see that SF's P/T are equal to or higher than the 2/2. The triggers fizzle because there's no legal target.
While the 3 2/2 creatures may enter at the same time (a la Thatcher Revolt), each creature causes evolve to trigger separately. Each trigger has to go on the stack one after the other.
top of stack
evolve trigger
evolve trigger
evolve trigger
bottom of stack
The first trigger resolves, checks the creature's power and toughness, sees the power being higher, gives SF a +1/+1 counter. Now, when the second and third triggers resolve, it'll see that SF's P/T are equal to or higher than the 2/2. The triggers fizzle because there's no legal target.
Evolve does not target so the ability doesn't fizzle, it resolves. It just does nothing on resolution for the second and third ones in this case as the if condition is no longer meet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Evolve does not target so the ability doesn't fizzle, it resolves. It just does nothing on resolution for the second and third ones in this case as the if condition is no longer meet.
Oh man, really? Semantics and splitting hairs, if you ask me. I used "fizzle" in the actual informal English sense of the word to convey "it just does nothing on resolution."
But there you go Mou. It doesn't "fizzle" in M:TG English, it just does nothing... which is what I was trying to say.
If you have the fluxmage and 3x 2/2 creatures enters the battlefield at the same time, does the the fluxmage get 3x +1/+1 counters?
This will not work if your opponent played hunted dragon.
Will it be the same if you played 3 Selesnya charms consecutively in response to the triggers resolving (making 2/2 knights) or will it get 3 +1/+1 counters?
The trigger is written with what's called an "intervening if clause", meaning it checks the trigger condition both at the time of the triggering event and at the time the trigger would resolve. Once one of the three triggers resolves, the Fluxmage will be big enough that the remaining triggers won't do anything when they resolve (because the "greater power or toughness" condition is false now).
At the moment the Spider entered the battlefield, its power is checked against the Evolve creature's power, and found not to be higher than the Evolve creature's power. Simultaneously its toughness is checked against the Evolve creature's toughness, and found not to be higher than the Evolve creature's toughness.
Since both checks failed, the ability does not trigger. Nothing goes on the stack.
This makes sense now!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The things I once imagined would be my greatest achievements were only the first steps toward a future I can only begin to fathom."
-Jace Beleren
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Evolve (Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, if that creature has greater power or toughness than this creature, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.)
While I understand most of this card I would like to clear one question up I have before considering using this card when Gatecrash Rolls around. It says that when a creature enters the battlefield with higher Power and toughness than Simic, Simic gains +1/+1. Does this mean higher power and toughness than Simic without the counters or including the counters?
-Jace Beleren
if simic fluxmage is in the field and master of pearl trident comes in to play,
since it's a 2/2 lord,
does it give simic the evolve trigger since it's bigger in toughness? or will pearl's +1\+1 stat boost kick in making simic a 2/3 and avoid evolving?
I believe it would work like this:
1) Master of Pearl Trident resolves and enters the field
2) Simic Fluxmage puts its triggered ability on the stack
3) When the triggered ability resolves, the if clause is checked
Since Simic Fluxmage would be a 2/3 due to the Master's lord effect when the if clause is checked, he would not get a +1/+1 counter since neither the power nor the toughness of Master are greater than Simic when the ability resolves.
EDIT: Misunderstood how the intervening if clause will work. The if condition has to be true when the trigger is occurring to be put on the stack. It still will not work as the Master of Pearl Trident's static ability is applied as a state-based effect when it hits the field. So the if clause is not satisfied when the triggered ability checks and therefore is never put on the stack.
Could someone please clarify that this is the correct interpretation? Do to the if clause, the trigger checks before it is put on the stack as opposed to being put on the stack and checking on resolution.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
While the 3 2/2 creatures may enter at the same time (a la Thatcher Revolt), each creature causes evolve to trigger separately. Each trigger has to go on the stack one after the other.
top of stack
evolve trigger
evolve trigger
evolve trigger
bottom of stack
The first trigger resolves, checks the creature's power and toughness, sees the power being higher, gives SF a +1/+1 counter. Now, when the second and third triggers resolve, it'll see that SF's P/T are equal to or higher than the 2/2. The triggers fizzle because there's no legal target.
If is the key. Without if, it would work as you stated. (if and instead are big effects changers)
Grammar is the difference between knowing your ****, and knowing you're ****.
Evolve does not target so the ability doesn't fizzle, it resolves. It just does nothing on resolution for the second and third ones in this case as the if condition is no longer meet.
But there you go Mou. It doesn't "fizzle" in M:TG English, it just does nothing... which is what I was trying to say.
This will not work if your opponent played hunted dragon.
Will it be the same if you played 3 Selesnya charms consecutively in response to the triggers resolving (making 2/2 knights) or will it get 3 +1/+1 counters?
I'm Mike, from The Mana Pool.
Check out my Tapped Out profile and comment on my decks!
This makes sense now!
-Jace Beleren