I think I understand how the God card card types work now, but I just want to make sure I understand completely, so please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the following statements:
Mostly right, but Essence Scatter will be able to counter them, and Negate won't be. Period.
The card itself is a creature, and Essence Scatter just looks for that characteristic of the card. And since Negate wants a noncreature, it fails the test when trying to counter it.
Mostly right, but Essence Scatter will be able to counter them, and Negate won't be. Period.
The card itself is a creature, and Essence Scatter just looks for that characteristic of the card. And since Negate wants a noncreature, it fails the test when trying to counter it.
At least this is my understanding.
Hmm, so does that mean that Grisly Salvagecan dig for them? Also, would that mean that Varolz, the Scar-Striped will allow you to scavenge a god regardless of whether or not the devotion has been met, but that you will not get any +1/+1 counters if devotion is less than 5?
The devotion ability on the Theros Gods isn't written to be a characteristic-defining ability, so that means it only works while the card is a permanent on the battlefield. In every other zone the Theros Gods are always creature cards (or spells).
Hmm, so does that mean that Grisly Salvagecan dig for them? Also, would that mean that Varolz, the Scar-Striped will allow you to scavenge a god regardless of whether or not the devotion has been met, but that you will not get any +1/+1 counters if devotion is less than 5?
Okay, one final question (hopefully). If I cast a creature with power and toughness of 5/5 while Wild Pair is on the battlefield, will I only be permitted to search for Thassa if her devotion level is met? I feel like this question has already been answered, but I just want to be sure.
As has been pointed out multiple times, the devotion ability on the Gods only matters while they're on the battlefield. While Thassa is in your library she's a creature card.
As has been pointed out multiple times, the devotion ability on the Gods only matters while they're on the battlefield. While Thassa is in your library she's a creature card.
What about when... Just kidding. Thanks for the answers. I appreciate it.
[Edit]: Wait, that's right (guess I wasn't kidding). This question was related to the god cards' power and toughness while outside the battlefield, not their card types while outside the battlefield. If "the devotion ability on the Gods only matters while they're on the battlefield," then does that mean that, while outside the battlefield, they either never have any power or toughness or always have their printed P/T, whether or not their devotion levels are met on the battlefield? Apocalypse81's answer seems to suggest that their devotion abilities do matter while outside the battlefield. If what you say is true though, then it sounds as though scavenging Thassa with Varolz, the Scar-Striped would always either give you zero +1/+1 counters or five +1/+1 counters (depending on how the P/T of the god cards works outside the battlefield) regardless of whether or not their devotion levels are met on the battlefield.
Anywhere else except on the battlefield, the god cards will always be an enchantment creature card. It's P/T will always be what is printed on the card. This is not dependent on your devotion. Essence Scatter will always counter them. Negate will never counter them. You can always scavenge them and get the appropriate amount of counters. Grisly Salvage will always find them. Disentomb will always get them.
On the battlefield, that will depend on your devotion count. If it's too low, then the card is enchantment and not creature, which of course has no P/T. If devotion is high enough, then it's an enchantment creature with P/T.
Anywhere else except on the battlefield, the god cards will always be an enchantment creature card. It's P/T will always be what is printed on the card. This is not dependent on your devotion. Essence Scatter will always counter them. Negate will never counter them. You can always scavenge them and get the appropriate amount of counters. Grisly Salvage will always find them. Disentomb will always get them.
On the battlefield, that will depend on your devotion count. If it's too low, then the card is enchantment and not creature, which of course has no P/T. If devotion is high enough, then it's an enchantment creature with P/T.
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Hmm, so does that mean that Grisly Salvagecan dig for them? Also, would that mean that Varolz, the Scar-Striped will allow you to scavenge a god regardless of whether or not the devotion has been met, but that you will not get any +1/+1 counters if devotion is less than 5?
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
The devotion ability on the Theros Gods isn't written to be a characteristic-defining ability, so that means it only works while the card is a permanent on the battlefield. In every other zone the Theros Gods are always creature cards (or spells).
Where is it said that this definitely isn't a characteristic defining-ability? Also, where in the rules does it say that if it's not a CDA, then it only works if it's on the battlefield?
Also, there's not been a rules update/clarification for the set yet with things like devotion added to the rules, so these interpretations are all up for possible changes.
Where is it said that this definitely isn't a characteristic defining-ability? Also, where in the rules does it say that if it's not a CDA, then it only works if it's on the battlefield?
Also, there's not been a rules update/clarification for the set yet with things like devotion added to the rules, so these interpretations are all up for possible changes.
604.3a A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an object's colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; (2) it is printed on the card it affects, it was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or it was acquired by the object it affects as the result of a copy effect or text-changing effect; (3) it does not directly affect the characteristics of any other objects; (4) it is not an ability that an object grants to itself; and (5) it does not set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met.
There you go.
Also, if you aren't aware that abilities only work on the battlefield unless they are CDAs or explicitly worded to work from other zones, then you're really missing something.
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When devotion is less than 5:
Essence Scatter can't counter them
Negate can counter them
Selesnya Charm won't affect them
Chained to the Rocks won't affect them
Grisly Salvage can't fetch them
Varolz, the Scar-Striped can't scavenge them
When devotion is greater than 4:
Essence Scatter can counter them
Negate can't counter them
Selesnya Charm will remove them
Chained to the Rocks will remove them
Grisly Salvage can fetch them
Varolz, the Scar-Striped can scavenge them
The card itself is a creature, and Essence Scatter just looks for that characteristic of the card. And since Negate wants a noncreature, it fails the test when trying to counter it.
At least this is my understanding.
Hmm, so does that mean that Grisly Salvage can dig for them? Also, would that mean that Varolz, the Scar-Striped will allow you to scavenge a god regardless of whether or not the devotion has been met, but that you will not get any +1/+1 counters if devotion is less than 5?
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Correct.
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What about when... Just kidding. Thanks for the answers. I appreciate it.
[Edit]: Wait, that's right (guess I wasn't kidding). This question was related to the god cards' power and toughness while outside the battlefield, not their card types while outside the battlefield. If "the devotion ability on the Gods only matters while they're on the battlefield," then does that mean that, while outside the battlefield, they either never have any power or toughness or always have their printed P/T, whether or not their devotion levels are met on the battlefield? Apocalypse81's answer seems to suggest that their devotion abilities do matter while outside the battlefield. If what you say is true though, then it sounds as though scavenging Thassa with Varolz, the Scar-Striped would always either give you zero +1/+1 counters or five +1/+1 counters (depending on how the P/T of the god cards works outside the battlefield) regardless of whether or not their devotion levels are met on the battlefield.
On the battlefield, that will depend on your devotion count. If it's too low, then the card is enchantment and not creature, which of course has no P/T. If devotion is high enough, then it's an enchantment creature with P/T.
Thank you very much.
Well I think it's actually not correct, because whether you meet the devotion criteria, scavenging a God will give you the +1/+1 counters.
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My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
As flavor-fail as that might sound, it works.
Where is it said that this definitely isn't a characteristic defining-ability? Also, where in the rules does it say that if it's not a CDA, then it only works if it's on the battlefield?
Also, there's not been a rules update/clarification for the set yet with things like devotion added to the rules, so these interpretations are all up for possible changes.
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There you go.
Also, if you aren't aware that abilities only work on the battlefield unless they are CDAs or explicitly worded to work from other zones, then you're really missing something.