When you play a card with tribute, what do you have to announce if anything when the card comes into play.
Do you have to announce the tribute trigger? Can you just say trigger after it comes in play or can you just pass priority to your opponent? Or do you have to say something like "I choose you for the tribute trigger"?
At the time you cast the spell, no decisions are made regarding tribute.
As the spell resolves, you choose an opponent and that opponent immediately chooses whether to pay tribute. This does not use the stack as it is a replacement effect on entering the battlefield.
After the creature enters the battlefield, its trigger check whether the tribute was paid. If it was not, it will trigger and go on the stack.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Moderator Helpdesk
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
You literally follow the card's rules text as it is written (i.e., as a creature with Tribute ETB, you choose an opponent). However, note that Tribute is a static ability (specifically replacement); it does not use "when", "whenever", "at" or some other triggered ability word and it does not use the stack.
If a creature with Tribute has a triggered ability (triggering if the Tribute wasn't paid), it will trigger after it has ETB.
Key phrase, 'as it enters the battlefield'. This is before it actual hits the battlefield. After you cast it, priority goes around, once no one has responses, the tribute option goes goes the person of your choice. After deciding, then it enters the battlefield.
(edited)
after you choice the person to decide tribute, no one will be able to respond in between them choosing to tribute or not and it entering the battlefield. The last time someone has a chance to do something is after you cast it and before you choose who is tribute.
So even when you are only playing 1 opponent, you still have to announce that you're choosing them to pay tribute, correct?
Well, there are things to note with this: (1) you must choose an opponent and (2) there are no other opponents to choose from.
Now, it would reasonable that you could do without the formality of choosing an opponent and everyone can infer that you are choosing your only opponent at the table. That sounds like a reasonable shortcut.
Well, there are things to note with this: (1) you must choose an opponent and (2) there are no other opponents to choose from.
Now, it would reasonable that you could do without the formality of choosing an opponent and everyone can infer that you are choosing your only opponent at the table. That sounds like a reasonable shortcut.
I am asking this because it seems like a really easy way for your opponent to gimmick you out of the tribute trigger.
My basic question is: Once someone plays a card with the Tribute mechanic, what is the least they have to do if anything to annouce it. I just want to make damn sure I'm not screwed over by someone playing tribute. If they are required to only say something like "Is this ok", basically giving you priority, I want to make damn sure I know what cards have tribute on them so I don't miss my trigger.
The last time someone has a chance to do something is after you cast it and before you choose who is tribute.
Eh, actually slightly incorrect, as a player can in response to a tribute not paid and its associated trigger when the creature ETB do something.
- For instance Lightning Strike a Fanatic of Xenagos who's about to get +1/+1 and Haste and out of Bolt-range, killing him off before he's able to do jack sh*t. However if the Tribute is paid he comes in as a 4/4.
I kinda dislike the chance to respond to a non-paid Tribute-trigger.
In gimmick-decks it also mean that you can use Strionic Resonator to copy potential non-paid Tributes.
@Praion: No you cannot force your opponent to physically put counters on your permanent, it's merely a choice for your opponent whether the counters comes on or not as it enters the battlefield.
If the opponent choose not to it enters as it is normally and the non-paid-tribute-trigger will go on the stack and allow one final chance to respond before the effect starts to take place.
I am asking this because it seems like a really easy way for your opponent to gimmick you out of the tribute trigger.
My basic question is: Once someone plays a card with the Tribute mechanic, what is the least they have to do if anything to annouce it. I just want to make damn sure I'm not screwed over by someone playing tribute. If they are required to only say something like "Is this ok", basically giving you priority, I want to make damn sure I know what cards have tribute on them so I don't miss my trigger.
From my understanding of the general philosophy for handling these types of situations, this is highly unlikely to be an issue in the way you fear. If an effect of your card gives an opponent a choice, you have to give the opponent the choice. You can't fail to communicate the choice to trick your opponent into making some kind of default choice.
For instance, you couldn't say, "I play Nessian Wilds Ravager. Enters the battlefield?" then claim that your opponent chose not to pay tribute when they just say "Sure," because you didn't give them the choice.
Tribute itself isn't a trigger, though there's usually a trigger associated with not paying tribute (currently the case for all spoiled tribute cards). Were tribute a trigger, the trigger rules would cover this pretty clearly; if you don't announce a trigger, your opponent can have it put it on the stack. Intentionally missing your own triggers (e.g. to gain an advantage) is often cheating, so that would likely be an issue as well.
Of course, to repeat for emphasis, tribute isn't a trigger. It'll be resolved as part of whatever effect is putting the creature on the battlefield (usually the resolution of a creature spell with tribute). However, the idea is likely to be pretty similar; after all, you also can't trick your opponent into letting you draw three cards off Browbeat without having been given an opportunity to take damage. If you don't give your opponent the choice, you're not resolving the effect properly (i.e. game rule violation), because the choice is part of the effect.
My point isn't the specifics of what any eventual rulings on this type of communication/game play issue will be, but that as a player you shouldn't be too worried about whether your opponents will be able to exploit technicalities to trick you like this, simply because it's in the DCI's interest that that sort of thing happens as little as possible.
That being said, in a two-player game where someone plays a card with tribute and just asks, "Tribute?" without explicitly specifying their opponent, they're pretty unlikely to get any kind of penalty for that at any REL.
Moreover, some of this is likely to depend on how players actually play the cards in the game. For instance, it could become common for players to play creature spells with tribute and for their opponents to say (explicitly) "tribute"/"no tribute" or similar without prompting from the player who played the tribute creature. The important thing is that the player using the tribute card is responsible for ensuring their opponent is aware of the choice, which may or may not require explicitly prompting the opponent.
I want to be clear that none of the things I've said are official rulings. However, this is how I as a player would expect tribute to be handled in tournament settings based on my understanding of how similar issues are currently handled and why they're handled that way. I do not expect poor communication to be rewarded in the manner you suggest; if anything, I expect it would be penalized.
I am asking this because it seems like a really easy way for your opponent to gimmick you out of the tribute trigger.
Sure.
My basic question is: Once someone plays a card with the Tribute mechanic, what is the least they have to do if anything to annouce it. I just want to make damn sure I'm not screwed over by someone playing tribute. If they are required to only say something like "Is this ok", basically giving you priority, I want to make damn sure I know what cards have tribute on them so I don't miss my trigger.
Yeah, as Dilithium suggested, communication is key. Admittedly, I haven't kept up with Comprehensive Rules, Tournament/Floor Rules or other documents, but I did read that missing triggers and not expressly declaring triggers can work against your favour; if it can work against you, an opponent may put it on the stack and if it works for you, then the ship has sailed. Things may be different now; but, for the sake of simplicity, either familiarise yourself with the rules (Tournament/Floor) or just be clear with communicating that your Tribute creature's trigger is triggered and put on the stack. It's seems like the reasonable course of action.
Similarly, although Tribute itself isn't a trigger, just clearly communicate and things should be okay.
Follow up questions. It sas the opponent chooses to put a counter on the creature.
Does it actually has to be my opponent that physically puts a counter on the creature? Can i deny to do it myself and make my opponent reach over and place the counter?
Uh, for reference: Tribute n (As this creature enters the battlefield, an opponent of your choice may put n +1/+1 counter(s) on it.)
Although often it doesn't matter, you could follow the text as is and insist on having your opponent put the counters on the creature. It would probably also improve clarity, but if your opponent and you agree that he or she wants to put counters on the creature and that you can do it, then that should be fine too.
(i don't ask because i want to be a jerk. Just interested)
When you play a card with tribute, what do you have to announce if anything when the card comes into play.
Do you have to announce the tribute trigger? Can you just say trigger after it comes in play or can you just pass priority to your opponent? Or do you have to say something like "I choose you for the tribute trigger"?
Could a mod move this to new card discussion.
At the time you cast the spell, no decisions are made regarding tribute.
As the spell resolves, you choose an opponent and that opponent immediately chooses whether to pay tribute. This does not use the stack as it is a replacement effect on entering the battlefield.
After the creature enters the battlefield, its trigger check whether the tribute was paid. If it was not, it will trigger and go on the stack.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
If a creature with Tribute has a triggered ability (triggering if the Tribute wasn't paid), it will trigger after it has ETB.
(edited)
after you choice the person to decide tribute, no one will be able to respond in between them choosing to tribute or not and it entering the battlefield. The last time someone has a chance to do something is after you cast it and before you choose who is tribute.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Now, it would reasonable that you could do without the formality of choosing an opponent and everyone can infer that you are choosing your only opponent at the table. That sounds like a reasonable shortcut.
I am asking this because it seems like a really easy way for your opponent to gimmick you out of the tribute trigger.
My basic question is: Once someone plays a card with the Tribute mechanic, what is the least they have to do if anything to annouce it. I just want to make damn sure I'm not screwed over by someone playing tribute. If they are required to only say something like "Is this ok", basically giving you priority, I want to make damn sure I know what cards have tribute on them so I don't miss my trigger.
- For instance Lightning Strike a Fanatic of Xenagos who's about to get +1/+1 and Haste and out of Bolt-range, killing him off before he's able to do jack sh*t. However if the Tribute is paid he comes in as a 4/4.
I kinda dislike the chance to respond to a non-paid Tribute-trigger.
In gimmick-decks it also mean that you can use Strionic Resonator to copy potential non-paid Tributes.
@Praion: No you cannot force your opponent to physically put counters on your permanent, it's merely a choice for your opponent whether the counters comes on or not as it enters the battlefield.
If the opponent choose not to it enters as it is normally and the non-paid-tribute-trigger will go on the stack and allow one final chance to respond before the effect starts to take place.
However I guess you could ask politely...
From my understanding of the general philosophy for handling these types of situations, this is highly unlikely to be an issue in the way you fear. If an effect of your card gives an opponent a choice, you have to give the opponent the choice. You can't fail to communicate the choice to trick your opponent into making some kind of default choice.
For instance, you couldn't say, "I play Nessian Wilds Ravager. Enters the battlefield?" then claim that your opponent chose not to pay tribute when they just say "Sure," because you didn't give them the choice.
Tribute itself isn't a trigger, though there's usually a trigger associated with not paying tribute (currently the case for all spoiled tribute cards). Were tribute a trigger, the trigger rules would cover this pretty clearly; if you don't announce a trigger, your opponent can have it put it on the stack. Intentionally missing your own triggers (e.g. to gain an advantage) is often cheating, so that would likely be an issue as well.
Of course, to repeat for emphasis, tribute isn't a trigger. It'll be resolved as part of whatever effect is putting the creature on the battlefield (usually the resolution of a creature spell with tribute). However, the idea is likely to be pretty similar; after all, you also can't trick your opponent into letting you draw three cards off Browbeat without having been given an opportunity to take damage. If you don't give your opponent the choice, you're not resolving the effect properly (i.e. game rule violation), because the choice is part of the effect.
My point isn't the specifics of what any eventual rulings on this type of communication/game play issue will be, but that as a player you shouldn't be too worried about whether your opponents will be able to exploit technicalities to trick you like this, simply because it's in the DCI's interest that that sort of thing happens as little as possible.
That being said, in a two-player game where someone plays a card with tribute and just asks, "Tribute?" without explicitly specifying their opponent, they're pretty unlikely to get any kind of penalty for that at any REL.
Moreover, some of this is likely to depend on how players actually play the cards in the game. For instance, it could become common for players to play creature spells with tribute and for their opponents to say (explicitly) "tribute"/"no tribute" or similar without prompting from the player who played the tribute creature. The important thing is that the player using the tribute card is responsible for ensuring their opponent is aware of the choice, which may or may not require explicitly prompting the opponent.
I want to be clear that none of the things I've said are official rulings. However, this is how I as a player would expect tribute to be handled in tournament settings based on my understanding of how similar issues are currently handled and why they're handled that way. I do not expect poor communication to be rewarded in the manner you suggest; if anything, I expect it would be penalized.
Yeah, as Dilithium suggested, communication is key. Admittedly, I haven't kept up with Comprehensive Rules, Tournament/Floor Rules or other documents, but I did read that missing triggers and not expressly declaring triggers can work against your favour; if it can work against you, an opponent may put it on the stack and if it works for you, then the ship has sailed. Things may be different now; but, for the sake of simplicity, either familiarise yourself with the rules (Tournament/Floor) or just be clear with communicating that your Tribute creature's trigger is triggered and put on the stack. It's seems like the reasonable course of action.
Similarly, although Tribute itself isn't a trigger, just clearly communicate and things should be okay.
Uh, for reference:
Tribute n (As this creature enters the battlefield, an opponent of your choice may put n +1/+1 counter(s) on it.)
Although often it doesn't matter, you could follow the text as is and insist on having your opponent put the counters on the creature. It would probably also improve clarity, but if your opponent and you agree that he or she wants to put counters on the creature and that you can do it, then that should be fine too.
Lol.