the wow tcgs raid thing had one flaw until the released buyable treasure packs and thats its pointlessness after it was used once. most the time the players opened the pack to get teh cards and gace the raid decks to ppl that wanted them cause they were worthless to the tourny players
so maybe treasure packs could be foil cards from the last block? shrug no clue otherwise how it would work.
"A rich man thinks all other people are rich, and an intelligent man thinks all other people are similarly gifted. Both are always terribly shocked when they discover the truth of the world. You, my dear brother, are a pious man." - Strahd von Zarovich
Agree with R_E. Why can't these announcements for stuff 6/7 months away wait until after WWK which is in two weeks?
I would like some assurance from WotC that Planechase will see continued support, as well. It's too good a format with far too much untapped potential to let die quietly.
Agree with R_E. Why can't these announcements for stuff 6/7 months away wait until after WWK which is in two weeks?
I would like some assurance from WotC that Planechase will see continued support, as well. It's too good a format with far too much untapped potential to let die quietly.
It's certainly possible that the 'not supporting Planechase' backlash could affect sales of this product if the casual crowd thinks that Archenemy will also be a one and done thing. The only problem is that we don't know what support Planechase still is going to receive, beyond the 2 additional promo planes that are due to come out at some point.
That being said, I believe this could be an interesting format and I can't wait to see how they're going to make 1 deck balanced against 3 to 6. In my head, it should be balanced enough so that each player's decks would normally hold it on in a giant chaos game. Which means that the larger deck has to superpower the Archenemy's deck to that of 3-5 men (including virtual men in the sense that everybody is gunning for you, instead of a random person).
EDIT: As for the Worldwake spoiling, what is the big deal in waiting for spoilers anyways? Drumming up interest is always the goal, and knowing cards months in advance could spoil the newness of the set (granted, I know finding cards is the ultimate goal of the rumor mill, but we'll get the whole set before the prerelease, that's basically a guarantee). The amount of information that is leaked is being lessened and in times closer to the prerelease now, a change. Change is something that we all have to get used to. I don't think it's good or bad change currently, just a different change.
I wish WotC would spread their product announcements out. The new year isn't even two weeks old and I already feel saturated. I really only have time for one draft and some EDH (+PC) every week anyway so maybe I'm not part of the target market.
Positives: Interesting take on Multi-player, format that supports Casuals well, obviously an evolution of Vanguard -> Planechase -> Archenemy which isn't bad, should do very well on MTGO.
Negatives:
-Very good chance it overestimates it's market. Obviously targetted at larger groups of players, and likely essentially useless in 2 or maybe 3 player groups. Planeschase did ok because it can be played 1 vs 1. This may not, and the assumption is that the Casual crowd has access to a fair number of players. By definition the Casual crowd is the one least likely to have a fair number of players, because they're Casual, they're not playing regularly and may just be kitchen table players.
-Fragments market, divides between Planechase and Archenemy which are essentially trying to fill the same niche. May have been better served by allowing for a 1 vs many set of rules for Planechase, such as allowing the 1 an extra plane, rather than roll out a new product trying to fill the same niche.
It's worth a shot, I just have doubts on it's viability and think maybe they'd have been better served by expanding on Planechase and it's rules...
I'm with you here. I love PC, especially with EDH. I wish they would have announced support for it instead. With the information we have so far, this product looks to have some really huge downsides. Fragmenting the casual market is not such a good idea in my mind.
Anyway, will give it a shot, see how it goes. Here's hoping there are no more product announcements for a while...
To be flexible against a varying number of opponents, the Archenemy deck must have effects that scale with the number of opponents. Otherwise I don't see how it's possible that the same deck can be as effective against three players as against thirty.
Just dumping lots of new products on the market and whatever is popular stays. Anything else is quietly terminated.
Hasbro trying to milk the MtG cow.
I disagree.
It's WOTC trying to save themselves. You don't overhaul every product line making massive changes if everything's going great.
WOTC's trying to branch Mtg out from where it was at: Set, Set, Set, Set, Set, ...., Set. They're trying to support the collector market that got them on the map with the FtV and Premium series, they're trying to support the casuals with Duel Decks and formats like this. I'm guessing they're floating the idea of making "Premium packs" permanent if the current one were to fly. They're testing the waters within the scope of the product line.
I promise you, you'll know it when Hasbro tries to milk the MtG cow. It'll be this...
Announcing! Chronicles 2, get all of your old favorite cards from Ice Ages onwards in this 500+ card set!
It'll be followed 6-12 months later with...
Announcing! Final Edition, with Mythic rares like Black Lotus, Mox, etc.
Milking the cow means they start tossing out what they know will sell thousands of boxes overnight. This is just experimenting with new ideas.
Aside from that, I agree with what RE says in regard to WWK.
I wish WotC would spread their product announcements out. The new year isn't even two weeks old and I already feel saturated. I really only have time for one draft and some EDH (+PC) every week anyway so maybe I'm not part of the target market.
I'm with you here. I love PC, especially with EDH. I wish they would have announced support for it instead. With the information we have so far, this product looks to have some really huge downsides. Fragmenting the casual market is not such a good idea in my mind.
Anyway, will give it a shot, see how it goes. Here's hoping there are no more product announcements for a while...
I think it has been a little much, though a lot of the 'Announcing..' things were things that were already announced in the state of the whatever address by Aaron Forsythe (FtV, DotP real life decks, this thing, M11).
In my estimation, the current things left to announce for this year (so far) are:
Expansions to DotP (including the PC and PS3 versions )
Duel Deck: Planeswalker 1 v Planeswalker 2
The next Premium deck (if there will be one, not sure how Slivers fared)
Fall 2010 Expansion
The schedule for releasing things is getting so close that I'm not sure if something else could even fit in those cracks.
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This is probably the worst signature in the history of signatures.
What's funny about Planechase and this Raid deck is that all you need is that OVERSIZED CARD. The logical product would be a a 10-card Planechase pack containing only the plane cards.
Of course Wizards keeps on throwing a substandard 60 card deck with it to milk money.
If Wizards really wants to push this concept to the market they should try holding "Sanctioned Planechase or Raid tourneys". In my opinion it's the only way to make it popular.
There is one thing i liked in planechase: the fact that cards in decks could be re-used for normal MTG-game.
I hope that all cards from the decks included in this new product will be normal sized so we can play it outside of "archanemia".
The 60-card decks will be normal cards, the oversized cards will be a 40-card deck that is Archenemy-exclusive. The decks will be like the planechase decks, so no worries.
I'm excited about this, stuff like this is fun. I mean, you can't play in tournements all the time.
However I would be disappointed if they stopped doing planechase. Even if they just release 4 planes a year (one with each new set) that would be interesting to me.
I did enjoy the WoW Raid decks, but I really have no idea how they'd make it work for this. With the WoW TCG, it was open enough in style and cards that it could accommodate it in ways that I'm not entirely convinced MTG can. However, I won't say it can't either. That said, I'm a bit disappointed in this move. Its about as blatant of a ripoff as they could have gotten, especially when Planechase was so innovative and a huge success that everyone would like more of.
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New Rules come out for 1999 6th Edition... "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO PORTAL! THE GAME IS RUINED! EVERYONE PETITION AND GET THEM TO CHANGE IT BACK!"
New Rules come out for 2010 Edition... "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO YU-GI-OH! THE GAME IS RUINED! EVERYONE PETITION AND GET THEM TO CHANGE IT BACK!"
New Rules come out for *Reserved for something in 2020* "THEY'RE TURNING MAGIC INTO *currently "simple" game by the more "skilled" players*! THE GAME IS..." etc.
nope can't say that i've ever wanted to do multiplayer where it was everyone vs. 1 guy. actually it seems to defeat the purpose of multiplayer altogether. part of the fun is the diplomacy, which is something that isn't going to be there with a raid style format. if i get it, and try it in my playgroup i see about 3 games before people get bored and give up.
actually with all the other products that have been announced and produced this one seems completely needless. like, i dunno, how aobut more planechase support? thats a fun multiplayer format.
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Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
this sounds like a horrible idea. i cannot wait to smash my head into the wall when my local shop starts selling these, and stops selling them the next day. we will then celebrate with a Archenemy bon fire where we burn everything we didnt sell.
edit: i read the article again and i guess a 60 card deck with 8 rares isnt bad. 20 oversized cards could be fun.... could end up with an oversize draft one day...
Any multiplayer variant that doesn't involve hundreds of die rolls is a friend of mine.
Planechase was fun, but when I played, the decks seemed to take a backseat to the planes/dice rolling.
The people complaining can look the other way, this isn't for you.
WWK spoilers can come as early as tomorrow, as the minisite goes up.
And the first (only?) wave of handed-out spoilers will be dropping on Friday.
Not sure what happened to magazine previews though...
First: Unless this comes in with built in Planechase support (rules and extra planes for combining the two products), then im already unintrested.
We already have confirmation from Nagle that it works just fine with Planechase. And EDH. And why would/should it have extra planes?
Second: Plagerism is vile and ugly. I say that as a musician and designer.
Its like no game every took an idea magic had and used it their own way, right? We still don't have any specifics except that this is a 'griefer' multiplayer format.
Third: Odds are, when this is sold out, it will recieve the same empty promises of support and change as many things have (MTGO, Planechase, EDH, 5 Stars (you all forgot that, didnt you?), Emperor)... And then be replaced with the new ''You must buy this for your multiplayer group!'' product...
I don't remember anyone ever claiming to support 5colormagic (or emperor...). It was expensive, unwieldy, and you were playing ante, lol. EDH IS being supported by those designing sets. See: Nagle. Planechase supposedly still has some promo planes yet, and for all the people complaining about 'too many releases', what is wrong with one planechase set every other year?
MTGO has nothing to do with how paper magic products are planned and released, so I don't get the comparison here.
Fourth: Why are non of these things released on MTGO, where multiplayer and casual is a main stay?
This is a good question.
Fifth: Who actually tested this? Did that person ever play any multiplayer where it turns into All vs One? Its hardly ''fun''. And once you know exactly whats in the ''Raidenemy'' deck, what exactly is the point when your whole team can build specifically to take it out?
Its like you have the decklists and the mechanics of this set already!
Fact is: It doesnt take much effort to design, balance or truly develop these products, because your just copying from others, and then taking from a library of product you already have. With how cheap Wizards can pay for artwork, printing, distribution, and everything else, this is literally just flooding the market with anything and everything to grab as much cash from as many audiences as possible. Any that prove consistant, such as Duel Decks while remain: Any they have to actually provide consistant support for, such as Planechase and Raidenemy, while be quietly terminated with empty promises of full support and ''exciting new products coming soon!''
Because we have so much evidence that they won't be supporting Planechase anymore?
Like I said, why are some people complaining about 'too many releases', but others want a new Planechase every year?
It's not that we don't want new formats, but we want new formats THAT WILL BE LONG TERM PROJECTS rather than small bursts of ideas from Wizards.
I frankly believe that there is a need for a new format. Standard, Legacy, Extended etc all use the same rules and introducing a new OFFICIAL FORMAT such as planechase just might make tourneys more interesting.
Without knowing much about Archenemy (except the font was either hard for me to read or I wasn't awake yet, thought it was some french word at first), my only wish is that they didn't announce so many items at once. With some of them not coming out for months, they could've spaced out the announcements to every Monday for 4 weeks straight instead of 4 announcements in a 2-week span.
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"It's worked so far, but we're not out yet." ~ Bones
so maybe treasure packs could be foil cards from the last block? shrug no clue otherwise how it would work.
Just wondering does anyone remember Emperor http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/rules/emperor?
I used to like that over 2-headed giant.
"It was probably a lousy spell in the first place."
—Ertai, wizard adept
Legacy: UW Miracle, U MUC, UW StoneBlade, U Merfolk, R Burn, & UB Reanimator
EDH: U Azami, Lady of Scrolls & URG Riku of Two Reflections
Casual: UR Dragonstorm, UB Dralnu-Teachings, U NinjaFae, & UR Izzet EDH
Just dumping lots of new products on the market and whatever is popular stays. Anything else is quietly terminated.
Hasbro trying to milk the MtG cow.
I like Emperor and I hope that this format will allow something like Emperor.
2HG takes four people Emperor takes six though.
Yeah, 'cause when a cow stops giving milk, the farmer won't hesitate to butcher it for steak.
And yet ZERO info about WWK. We used to have most of the spoiler by Christmas or New years.... this is getting silly.
What we actually need is this:
1) Enough WWK to satisfy demand.
2) For WWK to not suck.
.
I would like some assurance from WotC that Planechase will see continued support, as well. It's too good a format with far too much untapped potential to let die quietly.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
It's certainly possible that the 'not supporting Planechase' backlash could affect sales of this product if the casual crowd thinks that Archenemy will also be a one and done thing. The only problem is that we don't know what support Planechase still is going to receive, beyond the 2 additional promo planes that are due to come out at some point.
That being said, I believe this could be an interesting format and I can't wait to see how they're going to make 1 deck balanced against 3 to 6. In my head, it should be balanced enough so that each player's decks would normally hold it on in a giant chaos game. Which means that the larger deck has to superpower the Archenemy's deck to that of 3-5 men (including virtual men in the sense that everybody is gunning for you, instead of a random person).
EDIT: As for the Worldwake spoiling, what is the big deal in waiting for spoilers anyways? Drumming up interest is always the goal, and knowing cards months in advance could spoil the newness of the set (granted, I know finding cards is the ultimate goal of the rumor mill, but we'll get the whole set before the prerelease, that's basically a guarantee). The amount of information that is leaked is being lessened and in times closer to the prerelease now, a change. Change is something that we all have to get used to. I don't think it's good or bad change currently, just a different change.
I'm with you here. I love PC, especially with EDH. I wish they would have announced support for it instead. With the information we have so far, this product looks to have some really huge downsides. Fragmenting the casual market is not such a good idea in my mind.
Anyway, will give it a shot, see how it goes. Here's hoping there are no more product announcements for a while...
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
I disagree.
It's WOTC trying to save themselves. You don't overhaul every product line making massive changes if everything's going great.
WOTC's trying to branch Mtg out from where it was at: Set, Set, Set, Set, Set, ...., Set. They're trying to support the collector market that got them on the map with the FtV and Premium series, they're trying to support the casuals with Duel Decks and formats like this. I'm guessing they're floating the idea of making "Premium packs" permanent if the current one were to fly. They're testing the waters within the scope of the product line.
I promise you, you'll know it when Hasbro tries to milk the MtG cow. It'll be this...
Announcing! Chronicles 2, get all of your old favorite cards from Ice Ages onwards in this 500+ card set!
It'll be followed 6-12 months later with...
Announcing! Final Edition, with Mythic rares like Black Lotus, Mox, etc.
Milking the cow means they start tossing out what they know will sell thousands of boxes overnight. This is just experimenting with new ideas.
Aside from that, I agree with what RE says in regard to WWK.
Its called "multiplayer EDH with Zur".
Ba dum psh. I'm here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress.
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My mind numbing DC-10 stack!
I think it has been a little much, though a lot of the 'Announcing..' things were things that were already announced in the state of the whatever address by Aaron Forsythe (FtV, DotP real life decks, this thing, M11).
In my estimation, the current things left to announce for this year (so far) are:
Expansions to DotP (including the PC and PS3 versions )
Duel Deck: Planeswalker 1 v Planeswalker 2
The next Premium deck (if there will be one, not sure how Slivers fared)
Fall 2010 Expansion
The schedule for releasing things is getting so close that I'm not sure if something else could even fit in those cracks.
Of course Wizards keeps on throwing a substandard 60 card deck with it to milk money.
If Wizards really wants to push this concept to the market they should try holding "Sanctioned Planechase or Raid tourneys". In my opinion it's the only way to make it popular.
The 60-card decks will be normal cards, the oversized cards will be a 40-card deck that is Archenemy-exclusive. The decks will be like the planechase decks, so no worries.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
However I would be disappointed if they stopped doing planechase. Even if they just release 4 planes a year (one with each new set) that would be interesting to me.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=63536
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actually with all the other products that have been announced and produced this one seems completely needless. like, i dunno, how aobut more planechase support? thats a fun multiplayer format.
I'm hopeful ^^
And I can't wait to try my beautiful Planechase EDH Prismatic Vanguard Archenemy Chaos Magic
That seems to be the idea of a customizeable card game. It just keeps on expanding and changing.
I for one look forward to add another element on my multiplayer games - planes, enemies, bring it on!
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Arkham, the 1920's. Investigators battle horrors from beyond time and space, risking life and sanity while conspiracies of cultists and malign servitors seek gateways for their outer gods to return...
Soon, the stars will be right! Great Cthulhu shall rise!
edit: i read the article again and i guess a 60 card deck with 8 rares isnt bad. 20 oversized cards could be fun.... could end up with an oversize draft one day...
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Planechase was fun, but when I played, the decks seemed to take a backseat to the planes/dice rolling.
The people complaining can look the other way, this isn't for you.
WWK spoilers can come as early as tomorrow, as the minisite goes up.
And the first (only?) wave of handed-out spoilers will be dropping on Friday.
Not sure what happened to magazine previews though...
We already have confirmation from Nagle that it works just fine with Planechase. And EDH. And why would/should it have extra planes?
Its like no game every took an idea magic had and used it their own way, right? We still don't have any specifics except that this is a 'griefer' multiplayer format.
I don't remember anyone ever claiming to support 5colormagic (or emperor...). It was expensive, unwieldy, and you were playing ante, lol. EDH IS being supported by those designing sets. See: Nagle. Planechase supposedly still has some promo planes yet, and for all the people complaining about 'too many releases', what is wrong with one planechase set every other year?
MTGO has nothing to do with how paper magic products are planned and released, so I don't get the comparison here.
This is a good question.
Its like you have the decklists and the mechanics of this set already!
Because we have so much evidence that they won't be supporting Planechase anymore?
Like I said, why are some people complaining about 'too many releases', but others want a new Planechase every year?
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I frankly believe that there is a need for a new format. Standard, Legacy, Extended etc all use the same rules and introducing a new OFFICIAL FORMAT such as planechase just might make tourneys more interesting.
<----Patiently waits for Balance to be legal in Legacy.