I thought of scapeshift but that's probably way too strong with landfall. Turn 1-3 landfall guys, turn 4 scapeshift for 4 landfall triggers (like worst case). Go deeper into the game and you just get increased triggers for whatever is on the board.
I thought damnation would be in theros block because you know... religious/god theme and everyting? We need it, but I don't see it this block. I was hoping we'd get horizon canopy and/or grove of the burnwillows in the land-based-plane but I'm skeptical since we now have craplands and enemy manlands.
My pick: glimpse the unthinkable. The name of the card already sounds like an eldrazi thing. The only problem is the eldrazi mechanic is ingest and glimpse doesn't exile so its not a perfect fit - but christ, glimpse with all the delving is at least interesting, and baby jace could flash it back in a mill deck in standard (not sure what other mill support there is in standard right now). It could even just be a setup for BFZ/X blocks standard later as a mill thing.
Why not? Neither of those cards are remotely broken in standard. Without the cantrips, or serious amounts of card draw of other formats, FOW is hardly broken since you wont always have a spare blue card you're willing to exile. And it feeds into the exile resource thing. And nor is counterbalance that powerful in standard without the top to manipulate the deck.
If you don't get why they are broken in standard, I pity you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
Why not? Neither of those cards are remotely broken in standard. Without the cantrips, or serious amounts of card draw of other formats, FOW is hardly broken since you wont always have a spare blue card you're willing to exile. And it feeds into the exile resource thing. And nor is counterbalance that powerful in standard without the top to manipulate the deck.
If you don't get why they are broken in standard, I pity you.
Force of will requires running other blue cards, and unlike legacy we don't have the glut of good cantrips. I'm fact blue cards are relatively bad. Also, the format is particularly slow and grindy, so much so that the card disadvantage is not insignificant. Would it be powerful? Almost certainly, but not particularly broken.
Counterbalance would not only not be too strong for Standard, it would most likely be completely unplayable. It's good in legacy because you have top manipulation and a lot of the cards cost 1 mana. Neither is the case in Standard. Balance isn't even played in modern, where it is legal and cards tend to be cheaper.
FoW might actually be pretty insane but I don't know. It's certainly not a card they'd print because it's considered "unfun".
Why not? Neither of those cards are remotely broken in standard. Without the cantrips, or serious amounts of card draw of other formats, FOW is hardly broken since you wont always have a spare blue card you're willing to exile. And it feeds into the exile resource thing. And nor is counterbalance that powerful in standard without the top to manipulate the deck.
If you don't get why they are broken in standard, I pity you.
Force of will requires running other blue cards, and unlike legacy we don't have the glut of good cantrips. I'm fact blue cards are relatively bad. Also, the format is particularly slow and grindy, so much so that the card disadvantage is not insignificant. Would it be powerful? Almost certainly, but not particularly broken.
Yeah, FoW would be fine in standard. I'm not even sure how much play it would see given the inherent card disadvantage. Standard decks are slow and fair; that's not exactly the environment where FoW would shine.
The reason Force of Will is to good for standard (and modern) is because it can be cast for free on your opponents first turn before you have even played a friggin' land.
And if you don't think that is to good for standard, then you have no friggin' idea about what is good for standard and should most kindly go and play legacy and vintage with the other people who enjoy first turn kills and no challenge in their games.
Public Mod Note
(ktkenshinx):
Warning for trolling -ktkenshinx-
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
The reason Force of Will is to good for standard (and modern) is because it can be cast for free on your opponents first turn before you have even played a friggin' land.
And if you don't think that is to good for standard, then you have no friggin' idea about what is good for standard and should most kindly go and play legacy and vintage with the other people who enjoy first turn kills and no challenge in their games.
I think most people who are familiar with all the eternal formats understand why Force of Will is powerful in legacy and vintage. IT IS necessary to not get turn one wombo combo'ed in busted formats like the ones mention before. I mean if someone wants to turn 1 discard 2 cards to stop my elvish mystic " Oh no" I will say as they are -2 before they even take a turn. Or even if they made a relevant threat at 1 like a wild nacatl I would much rather 1 for 1 it with a bolt or a burn spell rather than 2 for 1 myself. You got to remember that these FoW slingers are getting to casually brainstorm and probe up new hand even though storm and probe are net neutral.
Now I'm not saying I want to see a FoW reprint as I know Wizards would never do that to support a dying format that they are trying not to promote. I just know that a 2 for 1 on a spell that Isn't about cause you to lose you the game or set you soooooooooooo far behind is not busted. Yes you can argue as well that later game you can tap out on turn 4/5 to play a threat as control/mid-range and hold FoW as back up to try a more aggressive line.
The reason Force of Will is to good for standard (and modern) is because it can be cast for free on your opponents first turn before you have even played a friggin' land.
And if you don't think that is to good for standard, then you have no friggin' idea about what is good for standard and should most kindly go and play legacy and vintage with the other people who enjoy first turn kills and no challenge in their games.
Good use of FOW there, countering a 1/1 or a 2/1. Most likely you pitched dig through time as one of the decent blue spells, or another blue counter meaning no counter back up for their meaningful plays. Also, love how you equate countering a 1 drop to winning turn one... Hyperbbole much.
From what I recall, Force of Will was played back in the equivalent of Standard during its day, against various fair decks. I suspect it would see play now as well. Regardless, I'm 99% sure that's never going to happen.
From what I recall, Force of Will was played back in the equivalent of Standard during its day, against various fair decks. I suspect it would see play now as well. Regardless, I'm 99% sure that's never going to happen.
Of course it would see play, that's not what I said. I simply said countering a 1/1 isn't broken.
Yeah, if it were to be in reprinted it would basically do the equivalent of Abrupt Decay, seeing some standard play but lots of modern play. HOwever, I honestly don't think it would be positive for modern, and would likely push blue over the edge.
Counterbalance would probably be useless in standard. I don't think it's playable anywhere but legacy even if it were legal all the time. It even had standard time with Top and no one played it. Counterbalance is a horrible card unless you can manipulate it and there's a really low cmc band played. Goblin Guide was also in standard with Lighting Bolt and was practically worthless. (think $3) If bolt couldn't make it too good, it would be fine. Force would probably be fine power wise but it would still alienate a lot of the standard player base due to the "wall of bull*****" effect. Anytime you have 2+ unknown cards in hand, Force is always a possibility.
Counterbalance would probably be useless in standard. I don't think it's playable anywhere but legacy even if it were legal all the time. It even had standard time with Top and no one played it. Counterbalance is a horrible card unless you can manipulate it and there's a really low cmc band played. Goblin Guide was also in standard with Lighting Bolt and was practically worthless. (think $3) If bolt couldn't make it too good, it would be fine. Force would probably be fine power wise but it would still alienate a lot of the standard player base due to the "wall of bull*****" effect. Anytime you have 2+ unknown cards in hand, Force is always a possibility.
And then they get a two for 1, which is pretty good in standard. Might hurt modern, but seeing as standard is for standard and they can ban it in modern if they want, I'm okay.
The reason Force of Will is to good for standard (and modern) is because it can be cast for free on your opponents first turn before you have even played a friggin' land.
And if you don't think that is to good for standard, then you have no friggin' idea about what is good for standard and should most kindly go and play legacy and vintage with the other people who enjoy first turn kills and no challenge in their games.
I think most people who are familiar with all the eternal formats understand why Force of Will is powerful in legacy and vintage. IT IS necessary to not get turn one wombo combo'ed in busted formats like the ones mention before. I mean if someone wants to turn 1 discard 2 cards to stop my elvish mystic " Oh no" I will say as they are -2 before they even take a turn. Or even if they made a relevant threat at 1 like a wild nacatl I would much rather 1 for 1 it with a bolt or a burn spell rather than 2 for 1 myself. You got to remember that these FoW slingers are getting to casually brainstorm and probe up new hand even though storm and probe are net neutral.
Now I'm not saying I want to see a FoW reprint as I know Wizards would never do that to support a dying format that they are trying not to promote. I just know that a 2 for 1 on a spell that Isn't about cause you to lose you the game or set you soooooooooooo far behind is not busted. Yes you can argue as well that later game you can tap out on turn 4/5 to play a threat as control/mid-range and hold FoW as back up to try a more aggressive line.
But that is just my 2 cents
In fact you are wrong. Not loosing the game in that situation gives blue a Big Edge on other colors who cannot and thus limit wizards to either make blue cards suck (we all remember that era existed) or let the meta be 70% blue decks. It won't happen. The card defines a format. Moreso than Jace, The Mindsculptor. They already removed 2 mana counterspell and 4 CMC Wrath because they want to limit the portion of blue Control decks in standard. 2-for-one and a life is not a bad enough rate, as you could just slam a Jace Ingenuity( or whatever card draw/planeswalker/CA engine) and then pitch out of those 3 or whatever.
I don't care about legacy and I am pleased so far with some interesting Modern and standard potential. I would Love allied manlands as well for standard so colonnade is my high profile card of choice. Along with maybe inquisition of Kozilek and seering blaze (not flashy but standard needs a great 2 CMC burn spell).
How does the ability to counter a turn 1 elf break blue? Are you really just against FOW and making up reasons now? You need to remember that not using mana, while good, doesn't always = the card disadvantage. Especially if that means getting rid of your card draw spell leaving you with no good answers.
Will FOW be good? Yes, absolutely. Will it be broken? Not a chance. I mean if FOW is broken, how is it okay for black to take my turn 1 play from my hand before my turn 1?
Yeah countering turn 1 plays isn't going to win you the game in standard... probably not even modern outside of maybe some early threat your opener couldn't deal with. Countering something a few turns later after the opponent was sure they had baited out all your available counterspells... might but doesn't seem completely unfair given the inherent card advantage
Two-for-oneing yourself is bad, except when it's not. Having the option to two-for-one yourself to gain tempo is often pretty good. See Dark Ritual and company, for example.
Force of Will would be good in the same way that Thoughtseize is good. Not broken or unbeatable, but arguably detrimentally oppressive to the format as a whole. A big reason why we've had to sit through so much mono-black and Abzan is because of Thoughtseize tearing apart synergy-based strategies, and Force would act in the same way. I wouldn't expect to see ramp ever be a viable strategy in a Force format, where blue decks will gladly accept a 2-for-1 to stop an Atarka or Ugin at no cost.
Back on topic:
I think crucible of worlds could see a reprint here. It hasn't been printed in any modern masters sets, and it's like a $45 card. Seems like now is the time with this being zendikar. Not sure if it will warp standard though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Crucible would be an interesting and powerful choice for a reprint. I do fear it might be too good with fetchlands, fetchable duals, manlands, and Awaken all in the format.
I would love a reprint since I'm making a lands deck. I do except something like this since Awaken runs a risk of depleting all your lands to wraths.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Linvala, I have no idea why she wasnt in the most recent FTV but she's pretty exspensive for how sparingly she's used mainboard. Spellskite has at least twice the play on her and is at 20. I can see and hope that she is reprinted.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
I think what people fail to realize is why certain cards are actually good in older formats. A lot of the things people want to knock down in price are huge recipients of specific other cards they play well with or the absurdly low mana curves. Outside of some cards that will always be amazing like Bolt, Swords, Sol Ring, etc., a lot of cards are only good with conditions as Nantuku Shade, Grim Lavamancer, Shrapnel Blast, Darksteel Citadel,and many others showed. Legacy has really really low curves and tons of stuff that fills up graveyards in addition to awesome fixing. I think the real truth is that a lot of expensive older format cards would be total duds in most standard formats and tank into the ground, ruining cards Wizards could use as future carrots to dangle to get people to buy product. I'm honestly not sure even goyf or confidant would be good in most standards. Infact, I don't remember them being all that good in the standards they were in. That fact that they're good compared to lots of other 2 mana stuff becomes less relevant when people are actually playing higher costed stuff. I mean really, goyf isn't likely going to get bigger than a 3/4 before a Siege Rhino drops and confidant heavily incentivizes getting that curve way down which is going to drastically cut the deck's power in standard where we don't have decades of powerful low cost cards. Lots of other stuff like Lotus Petal, Timetwister, or Yawgmoth's Will need very, very specific conditions to not be dollar bin trash too. You really have to think about why card X is good, not just say it's good in deck Y in format Z therefore it would break standard. Now if X is Ancestral Recall, then yeah, it's too good. Yawgmoth's Bargain,Bazaar of Baghdad or Ad Nauseam would probably suck though. I hear Goblin Charbelcher would be a stinker, too. I mean really, Juggernaut and Phyrexian Negator were allstars in vintage for a long time and only phazed out after mythic rares were a thing. Juggernaut has been in standard a million and one times and anyone that thinks Negator would even be playable in standard or limited is crazy.
I thought damnation would be in theros block because you know... religious/god theme and everyting? We need it, but I don't see it this block. I was hoping we'd get horizon canopy and/or grove of the burnwillows in the land-based-plane but I'm skeptical since we now have craplands and enemy manlands.
My pick: glimpse the unthinkable. The name of the card already sounds like an eldrazi thing. The only problem is the eldrazi mechanic is ingest and glimpse doesn't exile so its not a perfect fit - but christ, glimpse with all the delving is at least interesting, and baby jace could flash it back in a mill deck in standard (not sure what other mill support there is in standard right now). It could even just be a setup for BFZ/X blocks standard later as a mill thing.
Otherwise I could see oblivion stone since perilous vault is on the way out and again it sounds eldrazi-ish.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
If you don't get why they are broken in standard, I pity you.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Force of will requires running other blue cards, and unlike legacy we don't have the glut of good cantrips. I'm fact blue cards are relatively bad. Also, the format is particularly slow and grindy, so much so that the card disadvantage is not insignificant. Would it be powerful? Almost certainly, but not particularly broken.
FoW might actually be pretty insane but I don't know. It's certainly not a card they'd print because it's considered "unfun".
I'm personally hoping for Inquisition of Kozilek, Abrupt Decay, Goblin Guide, Goblin Ringleader, Horizon Canopy, Scapeshift and Toxic Deluge (probably not going to happen). All the really important reprints like Snapcaster Mage, Tarmogoyf, Cryptic Command, Noble Hierarch, and Dark Confidant are unrealistic anyway, because for some reason they are considered to good for Standard.
Yeah, FoW would be fine in standard. I'm not even sure how much play it would see given the inherent card disadvantage. Standard decks are slow and fair; that's not exactly the environment where FoW would shine.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
And if you don't think that is to good for standard, then you have no friggin' idea about what is good for standard and should most kindly go and play legacy and vintage with the other people who enjoy first turn kills and no challenge in their games.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I think most people who are familiar with all the eternal formats understand why Force of Will is powerful in legacy and vintage. IT IS necessary to not get turn one wombo combo'ed in busted formats like the ones mention before. I mean if someone wants to turn 1 discard 2 cards to stop my elvish mystic " Oh no" I will say as they are -2 before they even take a turn. Or even if they made a relevant threat at 1 like a wild nacatl I would much rather 1 for 1 it with a bolt or a burn spell rather than 2 for 1 myself. You got to remember that these FoW slingers are getting to casually brainstorm and probe up new hand even though storm and probe are net neutral.
Now I'm not saying I want to see a FoW reprint as I know Wizards would never do that to support a dying format that they are trying not to promote. I just know that a 2 for 1 on a spell that Isn't about cause you to lose you the game or set you soooooooooooo far behind is not busted. Yes you can argue as well that later game you can tap out on turn 4/5 to play a threat as control/mid-range and hold FoW as back up to try a more aggressive line.
But that is just my 2 cents
Good use of FOW there, countering a 1/1 or a 2/1. Most likely you pitched dig through time as one of the decent blue spells, or another blue counter meaning no counter back up for their meaningful plays. Also, love how you equate countering a 1 drop to winning turn one... Hyperbbole much.
Of course it would see play, that's not what I said. I simply said countering a 1/1 isn't broken.
Modern
UBR Grixis Control
U Merfolk
Pauper
U Mono U Delver
Ancestral Visions is freed
And then they get a two for 1, which is pretty good in standard. Might hurt modern, but seeing as standard is for standard and they can ban it in modern if they want, I'm okay.
How does the ability to counter a turn 1 elf break blue? Are you really just against FOW and making up reasons now? You need to remember that not using mana, while good, doesn't always = the card disadvantage. Especially if that means getting rid of your card draw spell leaving you with no good answers.
Will FOW be good? Yes, absolutely. Will it be broken? Not a chance. I mean if FOW is broken, how is it okay for black to take my turn 1 play from my hand before my turn 1?
Cubetutor Link
I think crucible of worlds could see a reprint here. It hasn't been printed in any modern masters sets, and it's like a $45 card. Seems like now is the time with this being zendikar. Not sure if it will warp standard though.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
Cubetutor Link
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Modern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
RW burn
Grixis delver
Slivers
8 Whack
"Don't underestimate the aerodynamic qualities of the common goblin."
RW burn
Grixis delver
Slivers
8 Whack
"Don't underestimate the aerodynamic qualities of the common goblin."