xambler-is-a-nerd-loser asked: "Bringing back poison took 14 years (although that ignores Future Sight). There's another mechanic planned for the current seven year plan that might break that record. We'll have to see." Banding maybe?
Yeah, you might not want to get your hopes up for that.
So no banding (phew) but what old mechanics are legitimate for returning?
Admittedly, Maro is very vague. Poison last appeared in 5th edition before Scars of Mi1rrodin (I think. Again, we ignore Future Sight). But seeing that many of the early sets featured failed or obsolete mechanics (such as Cumulative Upkeep and Provoke (which Maro says is obsolete because of Fight)), the possible number of mechanics dwindle somewhat.
What mechanics can you see returning?
EDIT:
mtgcat asked: July 25, 2015. You said "Bringing back poison took 14 years (although that ignores Future Sight). There's another mechanic planned for the current seven year plan that might break that record. We'll have to see." What is this"another mechanic"? C-mana things for OGW? or another cool unrevealed mechanic?
The only options I can think of are Madness, Shadow, and Rampage. I doubt Rampage is coming back and Shadow goes against their preferred playstyle. My bet is on Madness.
If we push it to 2017 then Amplify is also a possibility though I'd expect that to wait for Return to Tarkir
Considering that it's a seven-year plan (i.e., looking ahead all the way to 2023), there are numerous abilities that it could be--anything last printed in Alara or earlier. Cycling (Alara), Buyback (Time Spiral), Entwine (Mirrodin), Vanishing (Time Spiral), Ninjutsu (Kamigawa), Unearth (Alara), etc. are all popular possibilities. Also Affinity, heh.
Edit: Question was asked in 2015, so not Alara block. Still could be anything from Time Spiral or earlier, theoretically.
Assuming we're looking for something that hasn't been printed in 15+ years, if it's this year, it has to be something from Odyssey or earlier:
Odyssey - Threshold (assuming we don't count the Timeshifted sheet), Flashback
Invasion Block - Kicker
Masques Block - Fading (assuming we don't count Vanishing), Rhystic spells
Urza's Saga - Cycling, Echo
Tempest - Buyback, Shadow
Mirage - Flanking, Phasing
Ice Age - Cumulative Upkeep (Coldsnap)
Older - Rampage, Banding
So if it's something from this year, we don't have a ton of options, as most things have been printed in some more recent block. But Threshold is there as a decently likely example (it could fit in with the pseudo-threshold ability seen on Mindbreak Demon)
For each year we go further, we take on another year worth of mechanics:
2017: Madness, Morph, Cycling,
2018: Provoke, Amplify, Storm, Affinity, Imprint, Entwine
2019: Modular, Sunburst, Scry, Soulshift, Splice, Bushido
2020: Ninjutsu, Offering, Channel, Sweep, Epic, Dredge, Transmute, Convoke, Radiance
I think anything further out than that is probably too far for the mechanics to be solidified. From this group, I could certainly see Provoke, Entwine, Bushido, or Ninjutsu, especially if the latter two get renamed, which MaRo frequently hints at.
I think Entwine might be the most likely choice here.
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As previously stated, if this is for SOI(which, nothing indicates that it is but still), Madness is the only one that makes sense. I would say threshold would also be a contender if we didn't already have a similar trigger on the new Demon from the SOI duel deck.
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The new demon may lend credence to Threshold coming back, but we may have ourselves a different type of threshold instead. Madness does seem the most logical, as weird as that sounds, and I would certainly enjoy it coming back. I didn't play with it much when it was out in Torment, but I do like how it works.
I agree that madness is the most likely one. Though I wonder if we'll see a "new" old mechanic that was inspired by a single card from a long-ago set and WOTC decided to make that card's old ability into a "new" mechanic (For example they could give Narcomoeba's ability a name, put it on a number of new permanents and it would become a "new" mechanic, although narcomoeba isn't a 15 year old card yet).
Perhaps Madness will be centered in UR this time? That would reduce the probability of Flashback returning, but UB and BR presumably already have Zombie and Vampire tribal respectively. Plus UR is the color pair of mad science. And they get the most self-discard effects between them thanks to looting and rummaging.
But oh, how nicely Flashback would play with Surge.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
The mechanic is in the name of the block: Shadows Over Innistrad.
This is one is so obvious it's almost not even funny.
Nah bro, it's a Shadows Over Innsmouth reference. Fish-tribal is the new Meta.
Would be hilarious if Innistrad got invaded by fish monsters. >.<
Off-topic as this is, I think there would be a real chance for a Lovecraftian-style plot on Innistrad if not for the fact that we just saw the Eldrazi.
The mechanic is in the name of the block: Shadows Over Innistrad.
This is one is so obvious it's almost not even funny.
Nah bro, it's a Shadows Over Innsmouth reference. Fish-tribal is the new Meta.
Would be hilarious if Innistrad got invaded by fish monsters. >.<
Off-topic as this is, I think there would be a real chance for a Lovecraftian-style plot on Innistrad if not for the fact that we just saw the Eldrazi.
Although the Eldrazi are world eating eldritch abominations, they are not all that lovecraftian. Serpent Warrior from Tempest is more lovecraftian than them, as is Marit Lage. Parts of the original Innistrad block were quite lovecratian however, the blue aligned Zombies? Closer to Reanimator than Frankenstein. But then again, Lovecraft was inspired by the works of Mary Shelly when he wrote about Herbert West, so there are similarities. Also the unnerving sense of dread that came to a crescendo in Dark Ascension was very lovecraftian, had the block ended there, the whole thing would have been something straight out of Lovecraft's playbook. Avacyn restored kind of mucked that up a bit, until you realize that her purpose is to shepherd the vampires primary food source and we are right back in Lovecraft territory.
In short, Innistrad is more Lovecraftian than Zendikar.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
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--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
How exactly is madness too confusing? If you discard it you can pay it's madness cost to cast it.
The more I read these forums the more I'm convinced the average magic player is still in the third grade.
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Originally Posted by Massive Marc
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
Well, if there has to have been at least 15 years since the last time the mechanic appeared, at least half of those (including Madness I'm afraid) won't show up. Any mechanic that has shown up *after* Apocalypse is a no go. Technically Odyssey was released in 2001 as well, but all of the mechanics from it appeared in the rest of the block as well, which was released in 2002. Madness first appeared in Torment, which was released in 2002. Therefore it can *not* be madness. Also, Madness was in Time Spiral, again negating its ability to be the mechanic in question. So, what does it leave us? Well, a few mechanics, listed from oldest to newest (ignoring timeshifted cards):
Banding (highly unlikely)
Rampage (last appearance was in Mirage block)
Bands with other (12 on the storm scale, so no)
Phasing (Mirage block, highly unlikely, but on the list of mechanics they want to "fix")
Licids (fixed with the Bestow mechanic, thus unlikely)
"Free" mechanic (broken as <beep>, not going to happen, ever)
Fading (confusing, fixed with Vanishing)
Rhystic (sucked)
Flagbearer (extremely unpopular)
And that is it for mechanics that haven't been used for over 15 years. Not that many actually. Everything else has been used in one form or another. Of those, only Banding and Rampage seems even remotely likely because the rest either sucked, doesn't fit with what we know of the plane, are down right broken, or have been surpassed by "fixed" versions.
How exactly is madness too confusing? If you discard it you can pay it's madness cost to cast it.
The more I read these forums the more I'm convinced the average magic player is still in the third grade.
When I first played I thought I could just discard the card of my own volition and do it, but then again my only Magic experience prior to that was at school with kids that didn't know the rules, and I was the one that knew how to play the game after going to FNM's and Drafts at the LGS for a few weeks. I can see how it can be a tad confusing, but it definitely isn't the most complex mechanic.
Banding (highly unlikely)
Rampage (last appearance was in Mirage block)
Bands with other (12 on the storm scale, so no)
Phasing (Mirage block, highly unlikely, but on the list of mechanics they want to "fix")
Licids (fixed with the Bestow mechanic, thus unlikely)
"Free" mechanic (broken as <beep>, not going to happen, ever)
Fading (confusing, fixed with Vanishing)
Rhystic (sucked)
Flagbearer (extremely unpopular)
Of the ones you listed, I've always felt that banding could easily be split down the middle into two seperate mechanics and as a result be a lot less confusing. The defending half of the Banding mechanic could be summed up as "whenever this creature is declared as a blocker, you (the defending player) may choose how the combat damage is assigned in the combat damage step to all blocking creatures you control"
The banding ability for attacking is harder to word, but could be summed up as a "team up" kind of mechanic. Whenever more than one creature with the "team up" ability attacks you may choose to "team up" those creatures and treat them as if they were one creature with a power equal to their total combined power and a toughness equal to the total of their combined toughness when applying combat damage. Your opponent must block "teamed up" creatures as if they were one creature.
I've spent too long on this and it still isn't quite right, but you get the idea and I feel like someone at WOTC could easily spend the time to properly cleave banding in two and create two new and succinct abilities that are a lot easier to understand.
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/138262784063/bringing-back-poison-took-14-years-although-that
So no banding (phew) but what old mechanics are legitimate for returning?
Admittedly, Maro is very vague. Poison last appeared in 5th edition before Scars of Mi1rrodin (I think. Again, we ignore Future Sight). But seeing that many of the early sets featured failed or obsolete mechanics (such as Cumulative Upkeep and Provoke (which Maro says is obsolete because of Fight)), the possible number of mechanics dwindle somewhat.
What mechanics can you see returning?
EDIT:
So the original query was from 2015.
If we push it to 2017 then Amplify is also a possibility though I'd expect that to wait for Return to Tarkir
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Edit: Question was asked in 2015, so not Alara block. Still could be anything from Time Spiral or earlier, theoretically.
Odyssey - Threshold (assuming we don't count the Timeshifted sheet),
FlashbackInvasion Block -
KickerMasques Block - Fading (assuming we don't count Vanishing), Rhystic spells
Urza's Saga -
Cycling,EchoTempest -
Buyback,ShadowMirage -
Flanking,PhasingIce Age -
Cumulative Upkeep(Coldsnap)Older - Rampage, Banding
So if it's something from this year, we don't have a ton of options, as most things have been printed in some more recent block. But Threshold is there as a decently likely example (it could fit in with the pseudo-threshold ability seen on Mindbreak Demon)
For each year we go further, we take on another year worth of mechanics:
2017:
Madness,Morph,Cycling,2018: Provoke, Amplify,
Storm, Affinity,Imprint, Entwine2019: Modular, Sunburst,
Scry, Soulshift, Splice, Bushido2020: Ninjutsu, Offering, Channel, Sweep, Epic, Dredge, Transmute,
Convoke, RadianceI think anything further out than that is probably too far for the mechanics to be solidified. From this group, I could certainly see Provoke, Entwine, Bushido, or Ninjutsu, especially if the latter two get renamed, which MaRo frequently hints at.
I think Entwine might be the most likely choice here.
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But really, I'd be least surprised by Bushido.
-Chandra Nalaar
But oh, how nicely Flashback would play with Surge.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Art is life itself.
Would be hilarious if Innistrad got invaded by fish monsters. >.<
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Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.
Art is life itself.
Off-topic as this is, I think there would be a real chance for a Lovecraftian-style plot on Innistrad if not for the fact that we just saw the Eldrazi.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Although the Eldrazi are world eating eldritch abominations, they are not all that lovecraftian. Serpent Warrior from Tempest is more lovecraftian than them, as is Marit Lage. Parts of the original Innistrad block were quite lovecratian however, the blue aligned Zombies? Closer to Reanimator than Frankenstein. But then again, Lovecraft was inspired by the works of Mary Shelly when he wrote about Herbert West, so there are similarities. Also the unnerving sense of dread that came to a crescendo in Dark Ascension was very lovecraftian, had the block ended there, the whole thing would have been something straight out of Lovecraft's playbook. Avacyn restored kind of mucked that up a bit, until you realize that her purpose is to shepherd the vampires primary food source and we are right back in Lovecraft territory.
In short, Innistrad is more Lovecraftian than Zendikar.
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I doubt buyback will be back. They nixed it for Journey into Nyx and Rosewater said it's an 8 on the storm scale.
Then again, he also put madness at an 8 or 9!
8 doesn't mean it won't get used, just that it is unlikely. 10 and above would never get used in Standard. Be aware that Banding is "only" a 9.
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Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Buyback, Echo, Flanking, Kicker, Madness, Shadow, Split Second, Storm, Suspend, Threshold
Timeshifted cards, Thallids, Kavu, Nightmares
Vanishing
Absorb, Aura Swap, Fateseal, Fortification, Frenzy, Grandeur, Gravestorm, Transfigure
Radiance, Dredge, Transmute, Haunt, Replicate, Hellbent, Graft, Forecast
Arcane, Splice, Soulshift, Bushido, Ninjutsu, Offering, Channel, Sweep, Flip Cards
Imprint, Entwine, Modular, Sunburst
Cycling, Amplify, Provoke
Domain
Rebels, Mercenaries, Spellshapers, etc.
Phasing, Cumulative Upkeep
Recover, Ripple, Pitch cards
What about Vanishing?
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
The more I read these forums the more I'm convinced the average magic player is still in the third grade.
You know back in the old days, when there wasn't EDH, these "griefer" cards in decks were the norm. If you played a Winter Orb when you're opponents were tapped out, it was a good play. Now, you get people tell you they wanna punch you ? It's really sad how carebare this format is, to the point that some loser has to rip up your cards.
Banding (highly unlikely)
Rampage (last appearance was in Mirage block)
Bands with other (12 on the storm scale, so no)
Phasing (Mirage block, highly unlikely, but on the list of mechanics they want to "fix")
Licids (fixed with the Bestow mechanic, thus unlikely)
"Free" mechanic (broken as <beep>, not going to happen, ever)
Fading (confusing, fixed with Vanishing)
Rhystic (sucked)
Flagbearer (extremely unpopular)
And that is it for mechanics that haven't been used for over 15 years. Not that many actually. Everything else has been used in one form or another. Of those, only Banding and Rampage seems even remotely likely because the rest either sucked, doesn't fit with what we know of the plane, are down right broken, or have been surpassed by "fixed" versions.
No, no, that's just the average internet user.
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Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
When I first played I thought I could just discard the card of my own volition and do it, but then again my only Magic experience prior to that was at school with kids that didn't know the rules, and I was the one that knew how to play the game after going to FNM's and Drafts at the LGS for a few weeks. I can see how it can be a tad confusing, but it definitely isn't the most complex mechanic.
Of the ones you listed, I've always felt that banding could easily be split down the middle into two seperate mechanics and as a result be a lot less confusing. The defending half of the Banding mechanic could be summed up as "whenever this creature is declared as a blocker, you (the defending player) may choose how the combat damage is assigned in the combat damage step to all blocking creatures you control"
The banding ability for attacking is harder to word, but could be summed up as a "team up" kind of mechanic. Whenever more than one creature with the "team up" ability attacks you may choose to "team up" those creatures and treat them as if they were one creature with a power equal to their total combined power and a toughness equal to the total of their combined toughness when applying combat damage. Your opponent must block "teamed up" creatures as if they were one creature.
I've spent too long on this and it still isn't quite right, but you get the idea and I feel like someone at WOTC could easily spend the time to properly cleave banding in two and create two new and succinct abilities that are a lot easier to understand.