Color balance tells me it will most certainly be Gruul, Orzhov, and Azorius. Dovin seems like the logical choice for WU since he's already worked for Tezz. I'd guess Domri for RG since Sarkhan isn't about to volunteer. Also, we haven't really been given much of his story. My upset pick for WB is Liliana instead of Kaya. It would make for some good television having Jace see his ex walk into a Guildpact meeting as the leader of the organized crime guild.
Actually, thinking about it, and how all the color pairs relate to Bolas... Azorius, Orzhov, and Gruul are the right pairs. Have to be.
It's actually kinda- perfect, visually.
So Bolas is Grixis (UBR), let's start with that. Colors he definitely doesn't have are:
Selesnya (Black's Enemies GW)
Dimir (Black Ally pair)
Boros (Red off-Grixis Enemy pair)
So let's deny him the two things that mirror Dimir and Boros (Selesnya is just... the opposite of Bolas as whole).
Rakdos (Black Ally pair)
Simic (Blue off-Grixis Enemy pair)
The closest thing to an 'opposite' for Selesnya is Izzet, which Bolas has. Izzet is Black's Allies (UR).
That leaves Blue and Red's other Allied pairs (WU and RG) to mirror us denying Bolas his two in identity allied pairs (UB and BR).
Does that at least mean were gettin 3 walkers in the next set ?
Yes, they said as much in one of the first articles. The one that mentioned all this guilds being aligned with Bolas.
Each guild aligned with Bolas (and there will be five in total) will have a planeswalker running the show.
Personally I would like to see Domri being 'corrupted' or maybe just influenced to be working for Bolas. I liked his original walker card, so would like to see him again.
I would love to see Garruk storm onto the plane, and still in turmoil, just goes Incredible Sulk (not a typo) on the place. Incidentally helping, since Liliana might be Bolas-aligned. GARRUK-SMASH!
While Dovin has white in its color, his purpose in life of bringing in greater order aligns with Bolas, since absolute order is only possible under absolute power.
Dovin Baan more likely. He has more administrative experience, and is already WU. Tezzeret uses white mana sometimes (such as Brilliant Ultimatum), but his personality is pure UB.
Also, mechanically, Tezzeret loves artifacts. There aren't going to be a lot of artifacts in Ravnica.
I could see Domri and leading the Gruul (brainwashed, just like Ral is apparently?), leaving only Dovin and the unknown Orzhov walker being truly aligned with Bolas.
This assumes, of course, that the Vichy guilds are all two-per-color. There's no reason to assume they wouldn't bias against green and white, just like everything on Amonkhet, e.g. Golgari and Azorius being the only guilds aligned with Bolas. But if they are, having Vraska be there as Jace's sleeper agent (more literal than most), and Ral and Domri brainwashed actually does work, given historical precedent.
Also, w00t to Bolas for finally having a plan that doesn't take years to figure out what, if anything, he was thinking.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Remember Ravnica Guilds Of and Allegiance are running Concurrently with the Dominaria Storyline. Liliana wont be taking over Orzhov in Allegiance because she is still on Dominaria getting to Bezlenok. She "joins" bolas at the beginning of [MILK] Im sure she is involved and may take over after but we must assume Kaya is going to kill the Obzedat and be leader? until she seemingly turns back to good (as the book cover suggests) Then maybe Lily takes over somehow?? Or its someone new for the Orzhov guild all together,
The Kaladeshi thopters over the Azorious Hallowed Fountain seem/to indicate Dovin.
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Been a member here for over a dozen years. Playing since '95 just got lost in the twitch shuffle.
Am I the only one where once more planeswalkers have slipped into a favorited plane of mine and ruined the story? This time even pushing it as far as corrupting the very guilds I grew up knowing and loving. If this thread is true, this means that 5 of the guilds wilk be devoid of having a guild leader and instead will be a planeswalker, which I find incredibly boring.
Also,
INB4 Nicol Bolas tries to get the guilds to overthrow the guildpact by fighting and then releases the Nephilim once more to attempt to wipe the plane.
I assume that Bolas will be defeated on Ravnica. There are a few reasons for that.
1. It would follow simple 3 act structure for the Gatewatch. Zendikar/Innistrad was Act 1 (first victory). Kaladesh/Amonkhet was Act 2 (first defeat). Dominaria/Ravnica is Act 3 (heroic victory).
2. The people who Bolas put in charge of the guilds are actually still Ravnican and love their home plane. Planeswalker or not they would stand up against a zombie invasion of their plane. I can't imagine Vraska or Ral Zarek to applaud such a move (and I assume the other three planeswalker would not be happy either).
3. Jace is at the height of his power. He has his memory fully ordered and he is on Ravnica - a plane were he his word is magically binding law.
Overall I think they want to open Ravnica up to the rest of the multiverse and I would love to see more walker having ties to Ravnica on other planes. Having Ral on Kaladesh to learn more about their style of invention. Domri Rade on Zendikar helping with the rebuilding of the plane and preserving nature. Essentially expanding the missions of the guilds to other planes.
The only think I am not sure is what they try to do with Lili. Will they free her Or will Gideon Blackblade learn that his princess is in another castle?
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Sad that the new Hallowed Fountain art spoiled Azorius as Bolas- curved horn symbology everywhere and Thopters that could easily be of Kaladesh design. Not sure if that means Tezz or Dovin (or some yet unnamed individual) but we can confirm Azor=Bolas.
There's probably going to be some unexpected twist I bet you. The breeding of a new supervillain in the ashes of the fallen dragon lord. Soap-opera style.
I just hope whatever entails following the battle with Bolas includes the Weatherlight II crew to some degree.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Sad that the new Hallowed Fountain art spoiled Azorius as Bolas- curved horn symbology everywhere and Thopters that could easily be of Kaladesh design. Not sure if that means Tezz or Dovin (or some yet unnamed individual) but we can confirm Azor=Bolas.
So you're anticipating Tezzeret will lose Black and gain White?
He could just be Esper colored- while abnormal, no reason that someone with an additional color couldn't lead a guild with 2/3rd of their color pie.
Maro has said that the guild leaders all have two colors and the same colors as the guilds they lead, so that isn't an option. It's Azorius or nothing.
Street Riot confirms Domri Rade is coming back, so there's a good chance he's the Gruul Bolas pawn. The other Gruul Legend will probably be Borborygmos, for the last time.
If Bolas can somehow convince Dovin to work with him, most likely through Tezzeret, then there is a chance he's the Azorius pawn. Lavinia will likely be the other legend, and she'll most likely suspect something's up since she knows about planeswalkers.
That leaves Orzhov. We know Kaya's getting involved in the story, most likely hired to destroy the Obzedat. Either Karlov or Teysa will be the rare legend for that set.
As for Rakdos and Simic, presumably their mythic legends will be the usual leaders, Rakdos and Zegana. The rare legends may be different, but they could just as easily be Exava and Vorel again, though I'd be kinda interested in seeing Speaker Trifon myself.
However! Just because the third set isn't themed around the Guilds, doesn't mean we won't still see some multicolored legends in it. That would be an excellent place for Feather - and in the event she doesn't appear in RNA, Teysa - to appear.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Crazy idea, but what if Liliana was officially the Orzhov guildwalker working for Bolas? Kaya might be hired to eliminate the Obzedat, but Liliana would take over from there (perhaps with Teysa as her retainer of sorts, as part of a deal between the two). The Orzhov definitely suit Liliana the best out of all ten Guilds, given her ability to appreciate class, finery, and indentured slaves. We could then see a WB Liliana, perhaps calling back to her roots as a healer.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I'm wondering if Jace will become the leader of Azorius given his affiliation with Lavinia and the newly disposed Azor. I could be wrong but it is a possibility. We are due for a Jace card in this particular setting...Unless that comes in the next Rav set.
I kinda like Manite's explanation above. Completely forgot about that but it depends on whether Dovin is susceptible to that sort of thing. Dovin might remain neutral but who knows...
Given Tibalt is on the cover of Chandra Issue #3...it might be a teaser of his return...I know that it does not fit with the color distribution, but Tibalt as the Rakdos-Planeswalker would kinda make sense.
I could be wrong but i believe that MaRo stated that he wished they made Tibalt in rakdos colors
When she was a healer, she was already mono Black. And we know that both Ravnica Sets set place at the same time as Ixalan and Dominaria so no Liliana. And it doesn't make any sense, if you have Kaya, which is highly likely to be the Orzhov PW.
And the flavor text is no proof for Domri, it just confirms he is still on the plane. But yes, it is not unlikely, but I would love to see Ramaz in that place.
For the Azorius we got Lavinia on a GRN Token, most likely the art of the Prerelease Box. And for the PW, why not the one next to Kaya on the cover? I would love Azor, but the new one may be a good bet.
The Gatewatch and Bolas I think will only be in the third set, but there are so many Planeswalkers for just so few slots... most will be just there for the story an we will get just the biggest ones on cards.
Edit: And Teysa is pretty much safe I would assume, as she is on the cover of the art book.
There are a lot of RG walkers, but I mostly think Domri because Chekhov's gun: WTF is Domri doing otherwise? And since he is a Guild-affiliated walker, and actually has an agenda very similar to Vraska's.
Also, let's look at the other candidates:
Sarkhan: On Ugin's side.
Xenagos: Dead.
Arlinn Kord: They wouldn't have a
Ramaz: Possible, and another Chekhov's gun (though Ramaz is more supplemental), but is he RG or GUR?
The one I don't get is why people think Tezzeret would join Azorius. He's UB and has a strong artifact theme. (After Liliana of the Dark Realms, Maro said they've been trying to keep walkers on theme.) Tezzeret really does not have a place in a Ravnica set; the only reason he had a place in Shards of Alara was because Esper was all artifacts. You know how many artifacts are in GRN? 12 The as-fan? 0.72 Of course the as-fan will be low; multicolor and artifacts are generally mechanically opposed. (Multicolor and tribal are as well.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I will protest that Tezzeret's artifact focus could always be adjusted to accomodate for Dimir's stealth. Creating Thopter tokens that could function as spies, creating artifact clones of creature cards in graveyards. However, at this point I think Tezzeret is more likely to appear in the third set, given his role in Bolas' plan.
Since Azorius will likely get one of the Bolas walkers, I suspect the other legend will be Grand Arbiter Leonos II, to save Lavinia for the third set. I could see Dovin spending some time working for the Azorius following Kaladesh's story, gaining influence among the Guild for his impeccable sense of safety, respect for authority, and concern for the public good. When Leonos runs for Supreme Judge, Dovin runs against him and wins the election.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
It would be fun to have Tybalt for Rakdos (as the guild master while the al might is asleep), Azorious and Orzhov as well with walkers on bolas' side. But the color balance would be off. I don't like that Domri would be the leader for the Gruul (maybe just giving advice for our favorite cyclops could be a thing). If they did like a Giant Planeswalker that won against borbo i would be ok with that.
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It's actually kinda- perfect, visually.
So Bolas is Grixis (UBR), let's start with that. Colors he definitely doesn't have are:
Selesnya (Black's Enemies GW)
Dimir (Black Ally pair)
Boros (Red off-Grixis Enemy pair)
So let's deny him the two things that mirror Dimir and Boros (Selesnya is just... the opposite of Bolas as whole).
Rakdos (Black Ally pair)
Simic (Blue off-Grixis Enemy pair)
The closest thing to an 'opposite' for Selesnya is Izzet, which Bolas has. Izzet is Black's Allies (UR).
That leaves Blue and Red's other Allied pairs (WU and RG) to mirror us denying Bolas his two in identity allied pairs (UB and BR).
It's... too perfect to be accidental.
Did you just replace "at" with @ in a sentence?
Yes, they said as much in one of the first articles. The one that mentioned all this guilds being aligned with Bolas.
Each guild aligned with Bolas (and there will be five in total) will have a planeswalker running the show.
Personally I would like to see Domri being 'corrupted' or maybe just influenced to be working for Bolas. I liked his original walker card, so would like to see him again.
PS - Fixed your sentence for you.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
We are already speculating on the subforum.
Overall we came to similar conclusions.
Orzhov is pretty much given, since Kaya is on the cover of the Ravnica book.
Azorius has Dovin Baan an option, which would make me very happy.
Domri Rade for the Grull and they really have all reason to rebel at this point.
This is also the only option which has balanced colors, with Vraska and Ral as confirmed leaders -
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Dovin Baan more likely. He has more administrative experience, and is already WU. Tezzeret uses white mana sometimes (such as Brilliant Ultimatum), but his personality is pure UB.
Also, mechanically, Tezzeret loves artifacts. There aren't going to be a lot of artifacts in Ravnica.
I could see Domri and leading the Gruul (brainwashed, just like Ral is apparently?), leaving only Dovin and the unknown Orzhov walker being truly aligned with Bolas.
This assumes, of course, that the Vichy guilds are all two-per-color. There's no reason to assume they wouldn't bias against green and white, just like everything on Amonkhet, e.g. Golgari and Azorius being the only guilds aligned with Bolas. But if they are, having Vraska be there as Jace's sleeper agent (more literal than most), and Ral and Domri brainwashed actually does work, given historical precedent.
Also, w00t to Bolas for finally having a plan that doesn't take years to figure out what, if anything, he was thinking.
On phasing:
The Kaladeshi thopters over the Azorious Hallowed Fountain seem/to indicate Dovin.
Also,
INB4 Nicol Bolas tries to get the guilds to overthrow the guildpact by fighting and then releases the Nephilim once more to attempt to wipe the plane.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
1. It would follow simple 3 act structure for the Gatewatch. Zendikar/Innistrad was Act 1 (first victory). Kaladesh/Amonkhet was Act 2 (first defeat). Dominaria/Ravnica is Act 3 (heroic victory).
2. The people who Bolas put in charge of the guilds are actually still Ravnican and love their home plane. Planeswalker or not they would stand up against a zombie invasion of their plane. I can't imagine Vraska or Ral Zarek to applaud such a move (and I assume the other three planeswalker would not be happy either).
3. Jace is at the height of his power. He has his memory fully ordered and he is on Ravnica - a plane were he his word is magically binding law.
Overall I think they want to open Ravnica up to the rest of the multiverse and I would love to see more walker having ties to Ravnica on other planes. Having Ral on Kaladesh to learn more about their style of invention. Domri Rade on Zendikar helping with the rebuilding of the plane and preserving nature. Essentially expanding the missions of the guilds to other planes.
The only think I am not sure is what they try to do with Lili. Will they free her Or will Gideon Blackblade learn that his princess is in another castle?
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
So you're anticipating Tezzeret will lose Black and gain White?
He could just be Esper colored- while abnormal, no reason that someone with an additional color couldn't lead a guild with 2/3rd of their color pie.
I just hope whatever entails following the battle with Bolas includes the Weatherlight II crew to some degree.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Maro has said that the guild leaders all have two colors and the same colors as the guilds they lead, so that isn't an option. It's Azorius or nothing.
If Bolas can somehow convince Dovin to work with him, most likely through Tezzeret, then there is a chance he's the Azorius pawn. Lavinia will likely be the other legend, and she'll most likely suspect something's up since she knows about planeswalkers.
That leaves Orzhov. We know Kaya's getting involved in the story, most likely hired to destroy the Obzedat. Either Karlov or Teysa will be the rare legend for that set.
As for Rakdos and Simic, presumably their mythic legends will be the usual leaders, Rakdos and Zegana. The rare legends may be different, but they could just as easily be Exava and Vorel again, though I'd be kinda interested in seeing Speaker Trifon myself.
However! Just because the third set isn't themed around the Guilds, doesn't mean we won't still see some multicolored legends in it. That would be an excellent place for Feather - and in the event she doesn't appear in RNA, Teysa - to appear.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I'm wondering if Jace will become the leader of Azorius given his affiliation with Lavinia and the newly disposed Azor. I could be wrong but it is a possibility. We are due for a Jace card in this particular setting...Unless that comes in the next Rav set.I kinda like Manite's explanation above. Completely forgot about that but it depends on whether Dovin is susceptible to that sort of thing. Dovin might remain neutral but who knows...
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I could be wrong but i believe that MaRo stated that he wished they made Tibalt in rakdos colors
There are a lot of RG walkers, but I mostly think Domri because Chekhov's gun: WTF is Domri doing otherwise? And since he is a Guild-affiliated walker, and actually has an agenda very similar to Vraska's.
Also, let's look at the other candidates:
Sarkhan: On Ugin's side.
Xenagos: Dead.
Arlinn Kord: They wouldn't have a
Ramaz: Possible, and another Chekhov's gun (though Ramaz is more supplemental), but is he RG or GUR?
The one I don't get is why people think Tezzeret would join Azorius. He's UB and has a strong artifact theme. (After Liliana of the Dark Realms, Maro said they've been trying to keep walkers on theme.) Tezzeret really does not have a place in a Ravnica set; the only reason he had a place in Shards of Alara was because Esper was all artifacts. You know how many artifacts are in GRN? 12 The as-fan? 0.72 Of course the as-fan will be low; multicolor and artifacts are generally mechanically opposed. (Multicolor and tribal are as well.)
On phasing:
Since Azorius will likely get one of the Bolas walkers, I suspect the other legend will be Grand Arbiter Leonos II, to save Lavinia for the third set. I could see Dovin spending some time working for the Azorius following Kaladesh's story, gaining influence among the Guild for his impeccable sense of safety, respect for authority, and concern for the public good. When Leonos runs for Supreme Judge, Dovin runs against him and wins the election.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.