I figure this belonged in general, as the rules section is generally used for asking about rules, whereas this is meant to be a discussion. If not, then by all means, move it.
I saw a couple threads related to this from a year ago using the search function, but they didn't address what I wanted to talk about. I also want to point out that is thread isn't meant to be me boasting about my skills. This is an anonymous forum as most things are on the internet, I care not what forum goers here think of me. I primarily lurk anyways. I simply want to address an issue with a game that I love very much.
Some background: I have been playing Magic since Scars of Mirrodin, so I'm not too new. I have played my fair share of FNMs as well as tournaments.
More importantly, I play poker quite regularly. Real poker, we play for real money, and real stakes. This isn't your kitchen table poker. My buddies and I are all very accomplished at poker, as well as card manipulation, forces, and controls. It's how we make money. We're all in our 20's, in college, and starving for money. We all met through a mutual interest in poker, found out we're all good at sleights, and decided to start working poker tables in teams.
I won't get into specifics, lest I stray away from the topic at hand, but you walk into a club/house/bar separately and "unknowing" of each other, sit at the same table, shuffle the deck to you liking, and when you pass it to the "stranger" to your left, they cut the deck just where you told them to. Sure, it isn't a consistent or even sustainable form of income, but when you score, you make good money.
This brings me to the issue at hand. When I started playing magic in the days of Scars of Mirrodin, this never occurred as an issue to me. However, when I turned 17, and started getting seriously into poker and card sleights, I started to realize a problem in magic.
The problem is simple, shuffling your opponent's deck. This baffles me. When I shuffle my deck, and hand it to my opponent, he/she should do nothing but table cut it. No picking it up, no shuffling it, no nothing. Just a table cut. Simple. Easy. Safe.
In poker, one shuffles, the next guy cuts. A simple cut can kill any stacking someone does to the cards. (Unless the guy is cutting the deck where you marked the deck to be cut.) You don't cut twice, you don't shuffle, you don't do anything. You table cut, and you're done. If you did anything other than cut, you'd get thrown out on the spot, and in some cases, you'd find yourself in a violent situation.
When you get to the high levels of poker, the players don't even get to touch the deck, let alone shuffle or cut. They leave that to a dedicated neutral party in the form of a dealer.
The reason for this is simple. What I, my friends, and a frighteningly large amount of people around the world can do with a deck of cards is stunning. False cuts, false shuffles, classic passes, pinky breaks, double lifts, side steals, forces, top changes, controls, I can go on all day. Granted, not all the sleights I named are practical or usable in Magic or poker, they always have their applications.
Poker has it right. When I shuffle the deck, someone HAS to cut it, because what I can do with a shuffle can change the entire course of a game.
In magic, after I shuffle, I have to hand my deck over to the opponent to be shuffled. For me, that isn't an issue, I know what to look for. (Unless of course the guy/gal can't shuffle and is butchering my cards.) The real issue is when my opponent shuffles their deck and then hands it to a guy like me. That is where the fun starts.
You can tell almost immediately who will catch you, and who won't. You look up at your opponent and get a gauge of how interested they are in your shuffle. More often than not, taking their eyes off of their deck is easy. The art of misdirection is not a complicated art, everything from simply talking to them, to looking away, to bumping your elbow. All I need is for them to look away for a half second, and the movement is already done. That is, of course, assuming that they are watching me throughout my entire shuffle of their deck. And if you're real good, you can fool a guy who knows what to look for. One of my buddies regularly slips us. He is so fast it is unbelievable, and we know exactly what sleights and movements to look for!
Have I cheated in Magic games successfully before? Of course. All the time. It is too easy. In sanctioned tournaments? Of course not. I don't like to crap where I eat, for lack of a better term. I love magic, and don't want to risk getting alienated lest I get caught.
In my quest to make this issue more known, I challenged one of the judges at my local shop to catch me during a match. I told him exactly what I'd be doing, but not when I would do it. My opponent, unaware of the challenge, stared into my eyes as I talked to him while shuffling his deck. He was easy. The judge however, was fixed intently on my hands. So what does a fella do? I adjusted myself in my seat, simply straightening my posture and shifting my butt. Under the cover of these body movements, I perform a minute turn of the wrist, covering the movement, and bang, done. I hand the deck back to the opponent and announce the next couple of cards he will be drawing. Two sets of eyes on me, and I still get away with it.
I know what you're thinking. "That would never work in a real tournament." You're right and wrong. In the early rounds, it is ridiculously simple. There are no recorded matches, there are people everywhere, and the din of talking people and jostling arms makes for a perfect environment. As for the recorded matches, we have all likely seen the videos of some people getting caught in legacy/modern/standard tournaments and the like. But you know what? They only got caught because the cameras. NOT because someone saw them do it right there, and these players are under watchful eyes! These cheaters are almost always busted after the fact because no one with their naked eye could catch the movements.
This should present an issue. If these accomplished cheaters are only getting caught because of the cameras, what do you think they are doing in earlier rounds, or at their local stores?
My friends and I regularly use our local store as a training ground for practicing sleights as well as educating our fellow magic players on what to look for. Even when we educate others, we still get away with it. The moment you hand your deck to me, you are at my mercy. I will ruthlessly stack your deck to my liking, then false shuffle it, handing you back terrible draws, or sifting your best cards to the bottom. And you can't do a thing about it. I get to touch your deck last. Sure, you can call a judge over, but you won't do that if you don't notice my movements.
So. How do we resolve this issue? Simple. Just table cut the deck. That is it. I'm not going to call a judge over every time I need my deck shuffled. That is tedious, annoying, and time consuming. Just make it so that my opponent can only table cut my deck.
If someone can justify an opponent shuffling my deck, please do so. I see no upside to such a thing. If I try to stack my deck, then hand it to my opponent for a cut, he will cut the deck where ever he wants, undoing any work I did to stack. If he can shuffle it however, then I take whatever he gives me. If he stacks it, that is what I get.
This logic is terrible. Think about it.
After I shuffle, I must present my deck to my opponent so that he may ensure that I did not put any cards in a favorable position during the shuffle. How does he ensure this? Through a shuffle, in which he can do the exact thing this rule is trying to prevent, cheating. However, if he just cuts, it takes away my ability to cheat, as well as his ability to cheat.
The rule tries to prevent cheating through shuffling by having some shuffle. Justify that.
So is it likely we will ever see a change to this? Does anyone agree with the issues I present? Discuss.
I don't judge you. Perhaps you could do the same you do for your local magic group for the larger community in general. It would seem prudent to educate us in what to look for and, if possible, without teaching how to do it. Be it by a video or text (with or without visualisation) does not matter.
As it stands now I've read your text and I'm intrigued, but I have learned nothing other than to be paranoid.
While I agree that a simple cut would make much more sense than a shuffle, shame on you for cheating in casual. I can at least understand why people would cheat for prizes, but cheating in non-sanctioned tournaments seems incredibly stupid.
I don't know why, but I get a very catch me if you can feel from reading the top post. Also, when I shuffle my opponents deck, I always make sure to try and do the 7 shuffles required to fully randomize it to prevent stacking. And to piss them off after they made me watch them pile shuffle despite them not sideboarding so their deck count is the same and therefore pile shuffling is just a waste of time.
Does everyone else not realise the OP is blatant bull*****?
"I'm a master cheater and I'm here to warn you about cheating."
It's attention-seeking tripe, written by a teenager with an over-active imagination.
Most likely.
What is really telling is him completely missing the point of shuffling an opponent's deck in Magic. A serious player understands that Magic isn't just about stacking a couple of cards to set up a winning hand ala Poker. Sure having that Show+Tell on top is nice, but it is far from necessary. In Magic having a non-random deck with a near-perfect distribution of lands:spells is huge...and completely unaffected by a simple cut. You can even go one further and insure an even distribution of key spells, so one S+T per 15 cards along with a FoW and some cantrips...
Any tournament Magic player, especially one with a background that the OP claims to have, would understand this difference between Magic and Poker and realize the necessity for being able to shuffle an opponent's deck. Being able to shuffle the opponent's deck does present the savvy cheater an opportunity, but it takes just that, an experienced hand looking to cheat. OTOH if you take away that shuffle you are opening the door to a MUCH easier cheat that absolutely anyone can get away with in the form of deck stacking pre-match. That takes no slight of hand, and in fact is so easy to do that you would find some players doing it by accident (I've seen plenty of casuals who don't understand why mana-weaving is wrong).
... That takes no slight of hand, and in fact is so easy to do that you would find some players doing it by accident (I've seen plenty of casuals who don't understand why mana-weaving is wrong).
Exacty, mana-weaving (stacking the deck so it has 2 cards, 1 land, 2 cards 1 land etc.) is the biggest issue and cutting a deck doesn't solve it at all.
I think it's perfectly fine if an opponent takes my deck and shuffles it. How can he "stack" my deck, if he can't look at the cards? Is OP telling me he can both distract me AND look at the cards in my deck AND cheat the best cards to the bottom half in one swift motion? I don't think so.
... That takes no slight of hand, and in fact is so easy to do that you would find some players doing it by accident (I've seen plenty of casuals who don't understand why mana-weaving is wrong).
Exacty, mana-weaving (stacking the deck so it has 2 cards, 1 land, 2 cards 1 land etc.) is the biggest issue and cutting a deck doesn't solve it at all.
I think it's perfectly fine if an opponent takes my deck and shuffles it. How can he "stack" my deck, if he can't look at the cards? Is OP telling me he can both distract me AND look at the cards in my deck AND cheat the best cards to the bottom half in one swift motion? I don't think so.
People can, it has happened to me. Google trevor humphries. But it is a hell of a lot harder to do that then to just weave your deck and a cut does nothing against that.
Would it be sufficiently random to mana-weave and then do a series of normal shuffles? Like, say, two pile shuffles and then several cuts and riffle shuffles?
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"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Would it be sufficiently random to mana-weave and then do a series of normal shuffles? Like, say, two pile shuffles and then several cuts and riffle shuffles?
No. A few issues:
1. Pile shuffling isn't actually random at all. And if you've already stacked your deck then you can easily choose a pile count that preserves your preset distribution.
2. Simple cutting isn't shuffling and won't help to break up a stacked deck (and yes, mana-weaving is STACKING YOUR DECK). Cutting is a useful shortcut that helps prevent the simplest cheat: stacking the top of the deck. But it isn't going to fix a mana-weave.
3. I believe that seven real shuffles, riffles in this case, is supposed to be adequate for randomizing a Magic deck.
Fundamentally the issue is that there is absolutely no reason to mana-weave if you intend to fully randomize after you do it. Just think about it from a logical standpoint. If I see you mana weaving I can either conclude that you intend to cheat by insufficiently randomizing after doing it, or that you are ignorant, because there is no other excuse to mana-weave.
Yea I see no harm in giving you the option to cut. I'm surprised Wizards hasn't done much to stop the recent cheating scandals. I feel OP is exaggerating about manipulating several draws while under the eyes of a judges who is looking for cheats all in the span of a second.
Even if it's exaggerated, it's still a useful post, kind of like a hacker telling us how to stop hackers. After all, it's not cheating unless you get caught.
This card will be the worst rare in RTR and less remembered than skaab ruibator in three months. It struggles to be on the same power level as mass of ghouls, even in limited.
That its not simply "not good enough for competitive", or underpowered. But that this is offensively bad, the real stinker tier.
Still, my best evaluation is that its approximately on the same power level as a 4/4 for 4 vanilla beater.
Now I'm not saying every rising Magic player is cheating, but a few of the locals in my area have recently been talking about players who win more than their skill level suggests.
Google these following suspended players.
Jared Boettcher: Made an astonishing rise to Rookie of the Year and Gold Pro Status despite seeming to misunderstand probability among other things.
Stephen Speck: Made top 8 of a GP with Amulet Bloom despite missing a few on board kills. A notorious example was an on camera feature match, where Speck resolved a Hive Mind and passed the turn with a Pact of Negation in hand. On Speck's opponent's following turn, the opponent went to cast a Birthing Pod, which Speck chose to not respond to and Speck subsequently lost the game.
Understand, Dredge is not really a Magic: The Gathering deck. When a card is playable in it, it doesn't mean it's a tournament playable card. It means it's playable in whatever crazy fantasy world that Dredge operates in.
3. I believe that seven real shuffles, riffles in this case, is supposed to be adequate for randomizing a Magic deck.
The Gilbert-Shannon-Reeds model suggests 7.98 shuffles for a 40-card deck (Limited), 8.55 shuffles for a 52-card deck (playing cards), 8.86 shuffles for a 60-card deck (Constructed), and 9.94 shuffles for a 99-card deck (Commander). It is an overestimate of what's required, however (1) shuffling "too much" doesn't make a deck less random, and (2) the numbers assume what's called Good Riffle Shuffles (or a shuffle which is mathematically equivalent), which is uncommon for someone who isn't an experienced shuffler (anyone performing suboptimal shuffles would need extra iterations to fully randomize the deck).
The weird rule is that you are not allowed to cut the deck after it has been presented and shuffled by the opponent.
I agree, players should be allowed to do that.
yep, if they shuffle and not cut upon presentation (if I shuffle, I try my damnest to cut upon presentation, but sometimes forget), then the player receiving their deck back should be allowed to do a simple cut as well.
Noob question. What's a table cut? A Google search just got me results about cutting gemstones lol.
A table Cut is where your you simply divide the deck putting the top cards either in the middle or near the bottom, or sometimes a third through the deck. IE When my opponent presents their deck to me I pick up the top half, place it next to them, then take the bottom half and put it on top.
Another major issue that I have been victim too MANY times at competitive REL level events, that is not relevant at all in poker, is your opponent looking at your deck game 1 during the first shuffle. Peaking at what your opponent is playing game 1 is a big deal because it informs your own mulligan and early play choices. It is unfortunate because in my experience, they get away with it every time. I can call them out on it, but that's about all that happens. The judges cannot do anything and the players just deny it every time.
It's not that hard to shuffle a deck with the cards face down, and your head turned away. If you cannot do this, don't pick up my deck.
If you are concerned about this possibility, at at high level professional play, you should be, just have the judges shuffle the decks. I believe that's completely allowed; a player can call a judge over to get the job done. Baddaboom baddabing.
Honestly, I don't know why the Top 8 of professional events at least don't just have the judges do this anyway.
Another major issue that I have been victim too MANY times at competitive REL level events, that is not relevant at all in poker, is your opponent looking at your deck game 1 during the first shuffle. Peaking at what your opponent is playing game 1 is a big deal because it informs your own mulligan and early play choices. It is unfortunate because in my experience, they get away with it every time. I can call them out on it, but that's about all that happens. The judges cannot do anything and the players just deny it every time.
It's not that hard to shuffle a deck with the cards face down, and your head turned away. If you cannot do this, don't pick up my deck.
Although a valid point in both formats this is pretty much more of a problem in constructed.
Owner shuffles deck and presents. Now the opponent could be under the rules that he only is allowed to pile shuffle opponents' deck. There are no problems with this, since the deck is already supposed to be random. Pile shuffling makes it way easier to not randomly see a half-flipped/flipped card. It doesnt need be 1-and-1 card, it can be as easy as just separating into 5-7 piles and picking them up randomly, or simply only do the one action cut.
After all, if you are not happy when opp presents his deck to you, then call the Judge.
If you weren't allowed to do anything more than cut your opponent's deck, we could have the same opening post but instead talking about how "Play against a good mana weaver like me and that's where the fun starts".
If you weren't allowed to do anything more than cut your opponent's deck, we could have the same opening post but instead talking about how "Play against a good mana weaver like me and that's where the fun starts".
Per my suggestion you can pile shuffle, that means moving max 60 cards in constructed or 40 in limited (except for the cases where they more cards in deck in which case you are allowed to move that much more cards).
Another major issue that I have been victim too MANY times at competitive REL level events, that is not relevant at all in poker, is your opponent looking at your deck game 1 during the first shuffle. Peaking at what your opponent is playing game 1 is a big deal because it informs your own mulligan and early play choices. It is unfortunate because in my experience, they get away with it every time. I can call them out on it, but that's about all that happens. The judges cannot do anything and the players just deny it every time.
It's not that hard to shuffle a deck with the cards face down, and your head turned away. If you cannot do this, don't pick up my deck.
I feel like they should remove all protection from game 1 deck identity on the basis that it's not practical to protect it. You can watch people's games between rounds. You can know a guy who knows the guy.
When I watched the dragons of tarkir grand finals, it made it less hype to me to know that both players knew what the other guy was playing, but they had gotten to that grand final by winning matches in which both players -don't- know what the other guy is playing (or do, sometimes, since peek cheating during the shuffle is so easy and enforcement is so hard.). I want all the game 1s to be equal, and while I think it's definitely cooler for all g1's to be equally dark and mysterious, I'd rather have the consistency of them being open and known
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I figure this belonged in general, as the rules section is generally used for asking about rules, whereas this is meant to be a discussion. If not, then by all means, move it.
I saw a couple threads related to this from a year ago using the search function, but they didn't address what I wanted to talk about. I also want to point out that is thread isn't meant to be me boasting about my skills. This is an anonymous forum as most things are on the internet, I care not what forum goers here think of me. I primarily lurk anyways. I simply want to address an issue with a game that I love very much.
Some background: I have been playing Magic since Scars of Mirrodin, so I'm not too new. I have played my fair share of FNMs as well as tournaments.
More importantly, I play poker quite regularly. Real poker, we play for real money, and real stakes. This isn't your kitchen table poker. My buddies and I are all very accomplished at poker, as well as card manipulation, forces, and controls. It's how we make money. We're all in our 20's, in college, and starving for money. We all met through a mutual interest in poker, found out we're all good at sleights, and decided to start working poker tables in teams.
I won't get into specifics, lest I stray away from the topic at hand, but you walk into a club/house/bar separately and "unknowing" of each other, sit at the same table, shuffle the deck to you liking, and when you pass it to the "stranger" to your left, they cut the deck just where you told them to. Sure, it isn't a consistent or even sustainable form of income, but when you score, you make good money.
This brings me to the issue at hand. When I started playing magic in the days of Scars of Mirrodin, this never occurred as an issue to me. However, when I turned 17, and started getting seriously into poker and card sleights, I started to realize a problem in magic.
The problem is simple, shuffling your opponent's deck. This baffles me. When I shuffle my deck, and hand it to my opponent, he/she should do nothing but table cut it. No picking it up, no shuffling it, no nothing. Just a table cut. Simple. Easy. Safe.
In poker, one shuffles, the next guy cuts. A simple cut can kill any stacking someone does to the cards. (Unless the guy is cutting the deck where you marked the deck to be cut.) You don't cut twice, you don't shuffle, you don't do anything. You table cut, and you're done. If you did anything other than cut, you'd get thrown out on the spot, and in some cases, you'd find yourself in a violent situation.
When you get to the high levels of poker, the players don't even get to touch the deck, let alone shuffle or cut. They leave that to a dedicated neutral party in the form of a dealer.
The reason for this is simple. What I, my friends, and a frighteningly large amount of people around the world can do with a deck of cards is stunning. False cuts, false shuffles, classic passes, pinky breaks, double lifts, side steals, forces, top changes, controls, I can go on all day. Granted, not all the sleights I named are practical or usable in Magic or poker, they always have their applications.
Poker has it right. When I shuffle the deck, someone HAS to cut it, because what I can do with a shuffle can change the entire course of a game.
In magic, after I shuffle, I have to hand my deck over to the opponent to be shuffled. For me, that isn't an issue, I know what to look for. (Unless of course the guy/gal can't shuffle and is butchering my cards.) The real issue is when my opponent shuffles their deck and then hands it to a guy like me. That is where the fun starts.
You can tell almost immediately who will catch you, and who won't. You look up at your opponent and get a gauge of how interested they are in your shuffle. More often than not, taking their eyes off of their deck is easy. The art of misdirection is not a complicated art, everything from simply talking to them, to looking away, to bumping your elbow. All I need is for them to look away for a half second, and the movement is already done. That is, of course, assuming that they are watching me throughout my entire shuffle of their deck. And if you're real good, you can fool a guy who knows what to look for. One of my buddies regularly slips us. He is so fast it is unbelievable, and we know exactly what sleights and movements to look for!
Have I cheated in Magic games successfully before? Of course. All the time. It is too easy. In sanctioned tournaments? Of course not. I don't like to crap where I eat, for lack of a better term. I love magic, and don't want to risk getting alienated lest I get caught.
In my quest to make this issue more known, I challenged one of the judges at my local shop to catch me during a match. I told him exactly what I'd be doing, but not when I would do it. My opponent, unaware of the challenge, stared into my eyes as I talked to him while shuffling his deck. He was easy. The judge however, was fixed intently on my hands. So what does a fella do? I adjusted myself in my seat, simply straightening my posture and shifting my butt. Under the cover of these body movements, I perform a minute turn of the wrist, covering the movement, and bang, done. I hand the deck back to the opponent and announce the next couple of cards he will be drawing. Two sets of eyes on me, and I still get away with it.
I know what you're thinking. "That would never work in a real tournament." You're right and wrong. In the early rounds, it is ridiculously simple. There are no recorded matches, there are people everywhere, and the din of talking people and jostling arms makes for a perfect environment. As for the recorded matches, we have all likely seen the videos of some people getting caught in legacy/modern/standard tournaments and the like. But you know what? They only got caught because the cameras. NOT because someone saw them do it right there, and these players are under watchful eyes! These cheaters are almost always busted after the fact because no one with their naked eye could catch the movements.
This should present an issue. If these accomplished cheaters are only getting caught because of the cameras, what do you think they are doing in earlier rounds, or at their local stores?
My friends and I regularly use our local store as a training ground for practicing sleights as well as educating our fellow magic players on what to look for. Even when we educate others, we still get away with it. The moment you hand your deck to me, you are at my mercy. I will ruthlessly stack your deck to my liking, then false shuffle it, handing you back terrible draws, or sifting your best cards to the bottom. And you can't do a thing about it. I get to touch your deck last. Sure, you can call a judge over, but you won't do that if you don't notice my movements.
So. How do we resolve this issue? Simple. Just table cut the deck. That is it. I'm not going to call a judge over every time I need my deck shuffled. That is tedious, annoying, and time consuming. Just make it so that my opponent can only table cut my deck.
If someone can justify an opponent shuffling my deck, please do so. I see no upside to such a thing. If I try to stack my deck, then hand it to my opponent for a cut, he will cut the deck where ever he wants, undoing any work I did to stack. If he can shuffle it however, then I take whatever he gives me. If he stacks it, that is what I get.
This logic is terrible. Think about it.
After I shuffle, I must present my deck to my opponent so that he may ensure that I did not put any cards in a favorable position during the shuffle. How does he ensure this? Through a shuffle, in which he can do the exact thing this rule is trying to prevent, cheating. However, if he just cuts, it takes away my ability to cheat, as well as his ability to cheat.
The rule tries to prevent cheating through shuffling by having some shuffle. Justify that.
So is it likely we will ever see a change to this? Does anyone agree with the issues I present? Discuss.
As it stands now I've read your text and I'm intrigued, but I have learned nothing other than to be paranoid.
Merfolk Wizards AKA "Wizards of the Coast"
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Most likely.
What is really telling is him completely missing the point of shuffling an opponent's deck in Magic. A serious player understands that Magic isn't just about stacking a couple of cards to set up a winning hand ala Poker. Sure having that Show+Tell on top is nice, but it is far from necessary. In Magic having a non-random deck with a near-perfect distribution of lands:spells is huge...and completely unaffected by a simple cut. You can even go one further and insure an even distribution of key spells, so one S+T per 15 cards along with a FoW and some cantrips...
Any tournament Magic player, especially one with a background that the OP claims to have, would understand this difference between Magic and Poker and realize the necessity for being able to shuffle an opponent's deck. Being able to shuffle the opponent's deck does present the savvy cheater an opportunity, but it takes just that, an experienced hand looking to cheat. OTOH if you take away that shuffle you are opening the door to a MUCH easier cheat that absolutely anyone can get away with in the form of deck stacking pre-match. That takes no slight of hand, and in fact is so easy to do that you would find some players doing it by accident (I've seen plenty of casuals who don't understand why mana-weaving is wrong).
Exacty, mana-weaving (stacking the deck so it has 2 cards, 1 land, 2 cards 1 land etc.) is the biggest issue and cutting a deck doesn't solve it at all.
I think it's perfectly fine if an opponent takes my deck and shuffles it. How can he "stack" my deck, if he can't look at the cards? Is OP telling me he can both distract me AND look at the cards in my deck AND cheat the best cards to the bottom half in one swift motion? I don't think so.
People can, it has happened to me. Google trevor humphries. But it is a hell of a lot harder to do that then to just weave your deck and a cut does nothing against that.
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
No. A few issues:
1. Pile shuffling isn't actually random at all. And if you've already stacked your deck then you can easily choose a pile count that preserves your preset distribution.
2. Simple cutting isn't shuffling and won't help to break up a stacked deck (and yes, mana-weaving is STACKING YOUR DECK). Cutting is a useful shortcut that helps prevent the simplest cheat: stacking the top of the deck. But it isn't going to fix a mana-weave.
3. I believe that seven real shuffles, riffles in this case, is supposed to be adequate for randomizing a Magic deck.
Fundamentally the issue is that there is absolutely no reason to mana-weave if you intend to fully randomize after you do it. Just think about it from a logical standpoint. If I see you mana weaving I can either conclude that you intend to cheat by insufficiently randomizing after doing it, or that you are ignorant, because there is no other excuse to mana-weave.
Even if it's exaggerated, it's still a useful post, kind of like a hacker telling us how to stop hackers. After all, it's not cheating unless you get caught.
Google these following suspended players.
Jared Boettcher: Made an astonishing rise to Rookie of the Year and Gold Pro Status despite seeming to misunderstand probability among other things.
Stephen Speck: Made top 8 of a GP with Amulet Bloom despite missing a few on board kills. A notorious example was an on camera feature match, where Speck resolved a Hive Mind and passed the turn with a Pact of Negation in hand. On Speck's opponent's following turn, the opponent went to cast a Birthing Pod, which Speck chose to not respond to and Speck subsequently lost the game.
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yep, if they shuffle and not cut upon presentation (if I shuffle, I try my damnest to cut upon presentation, but sometimes forget), then the player receiving their deck back should be allowed to do a simple cut as well.
A table Cut is where your you simply divide the deck putting the top cards either in the middle or near the bottom, or sometimes a third through the deck. IE When my opponent presents their deck to me I pick up the top half, place it next to them, then take the bottom half and put it on top.
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
+100000 that would make swo much sense
I have many more anecdotes about people losing because they failed to shuffle an opponent's deck,
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
It's not that hard to shuffle a deck with the cards face down, and your head turned away. If you cannot do this, don't pick up my deck.
Honestly, I don't know why the Top 8 of professional events at least don't just have the judges do this anyway.
Although a valid point in both formats this is pretty much more of a problem in constructed.
Owner shuffles deck and presents. Now the opponent could be under the rules that he only is allowed to pile shuffle opponents' deck. There are no problems with this, since the deck is already supposed to be random. Pile shuffling makes it way easier to not randomly see a half-flipped/flipped card. It doesnt need be 1-and-1 card, it can be as easy as just separating into 5-7 piles and picking them up randomly, or simply only do the one action cut.
After all, if you are not happy when opp presents his deck to you, then call the Judge.
No, players should not be allowed to cut to one of their four marked cards that can win them the game before Turn 3.
I feel like they should remove all protection from game 1 deck identity on the basis that it's not practical to protect it. You can watch people's games between rounds. You can know a guy who knows the guy.
When I watched the dragons of tarkir grand finals, it made it less hype to me to know that both players knew what the other guy was playing, but they had gotten to that grand final by winning matches in which both players -don't- know what the other guy is playing (or do, sometimes, since peek cheating during the shuffle is so easy and enforcement is so hard.). I want all the game 1s to be equal, and while I think it's definitely cooler for all g1's to be equally dark and mysterious, I'd rather have the consistency of them being open and known