Okay, I searched the forums, and I couldn't find anything like this, so I hope this is a new question.
1. I play a Vesuvan Shapeshifter, copying a Watchwolf or some other generic creature. I then play a second Vesuvan Shapeshifter, copying the first one. I'm pretty sure that means the second one has all the abilities of the first one, including the upkeep trigger that turns it face down. But since Vesuvan Shapeshifter adds that ability to those of whatever it copies, would it have 2 instances of "At the beginning of your upkeep, you may turn this creature face down"?
2. Does this really make any major difference? After the first trigger to resolve turns the Shapeshifter face down, can I flip it face up as a copy of something, and then let the second trigger resolve and turn it face down again? Or does the game not see the creature it was supposed to turn face down, because it has since changed characteristics?
Both abilities would trigger, but if you decided to turn it face down twice nothing would happen. Like tapping something that is already taped.
But both abilities would go on the stack and both would resolve.
On a related note what would happen if you used break open on a face down clone? (we will say the clone was cloning a hill giant before Ixidron turned it face down)
1 I think it has twice the ability .. I hope someone comes by and explains it.
2 Yes you could turn it face up twice (for example to draw 2 cards twice with Fathom Seer (assuming 1 is correct)
changing stats don't make it lose track of the ability. It didn't change zones ..
If Clone is face-down, it is a 2/2 and has all other morph stats.
When it is turned face up, the copy effect still applies (it never stopped applpying, it just that the morph stats make it 'invisible') so it would be a 3/3 Hill Giant
At the beginning of your upkeep, 2 triggers will go on the stack. Both are "Turn ~ face down." You can let one resolve, turn it face up, then let the other resolve. You could get 2 triggers off of this.
The scientist is correct on the clone effect.
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If Clone is face-down, it is a 2/2 and has all other morph stats.
When it is turned face up, the copy effect still applies (it never stopped applpying, it just that the morph stats make it 'invisible') so it would be a 3/3 Hill Giant
But if that is true then a Vesuvan Shapeshifter loses its morph ability when it comes into play or is turned face up.
But your right, you could have one 'turn face down' abilty resolve, then pay 1U to morph it up, and then have the other 'turn face down' resolve and pay 1U to morph it up again, all in one turn.
Clone has no relevant abilities face down, the Shapeshafter has the morph ability.
And when the Shapeshifter is turned face up, the old copy effect is still in place, but if you choose a new creature, then that is the newest copy effect and is applied before the others, making the other irrelevant.
EDIT: Sutherlands is correct.
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Vesuvan Shapeshifter #1 copying Watchwolf
Watchwolf {WG}
Creature - Wolf
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may turn this creature face down.
Vesuvan Shapeshifter #2 copying Vesuvan Shapeshifer
Watchwolf {WG}
Creature - Wolf
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may turn this creature face down.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may turn this creature face down.
At the beginning of your upkeep the second Shapeshifter's abilities trigger.
You put them on the stack.
When you resolve one, it is turned face down and the copy effect of it ends.
You can now turn it face up again for 1U and let's say copy a Fathom Seer to draw 2 cards.
Then the second triggered ability resolves and it's copy effect ends again.
It is turned face down again, ready to copy another creature when you pay its morph cost again.
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And for more fun... Let the VS #1 trigger resolve first, then flip it copying #2, then when #2 resolves, flip it copying #1! Next turn, 7 triggers... VOILA!
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1. I play a Vesuvan Shapeshifter, copying a Watchwolf or some other generic creature. I then play a second Vesuvan Shapeshifter, copying the first one. I'm pretty sure that means the second one has all the abilities of the first one, including the upkeep trigger that turns it face down. But since Vesuvan Shapeshifter adds that ability to those of whatever it copies, would it have 2 instances of "At the beginning of your upkeep, you may turn this creature face down"?
2. Does this really make any major difference? After the first trigger to resolve turns the Shapeshifter face down, can I flip it face up as a copy of something, and then let the second trigger resolve and turn it face down again? Or does the game not see the creature it was supposed to turn face down, because it has since changed characteristics?
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Type 2 Metagame Analysis. For those of you who keep wondering what's the best right now.
But both abilities would go on the stack and both would resolve.
On a related note what would happen if you used break open on a face down clone? (we will say the clone was cloning a hill giant before Ixidron turned it face down)
2 Yes you could turn it face up twice (for example to draw 2 cards twice with Fathom Seer (assuming 1 is correct)
changing stats don't make it lose track of the ability. It didn't change zones ..
If Clone is face-down, it is a 2/2 and has all other morph stats.
When it is turned face up, the copy effect still applies (it never stopped applpying, it just that the morph stats make it 'invisible') so it would be a 3/3 Hill Giant
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeThe scientist is correct on the clone effect.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
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But if that is true then a Vesuvan Shapeshifter loses its morph ability when it comes into play or is turned face up.
But your right, you could have one 'turn face down' abilty resolve, then pay 1U to morph it up, and then have the other 'turn face down' resolve and pay 1U to morph it up again, all in one turn.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
And when the Shapeshifter is turned face up, the old copy effect is still in place, but if you choose a new creature, then that is the newest copy effect and is applied before the others, making the other irrelevant.EDIT: Sutherlands is correct.
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeHey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Watchwolf
Watchwolf {WG}
Creature - Wolf
3/3
Vesuvan Shapeshifter #1 copying Watchwolf
Watchwolf {WG}
Creature - Wolf
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may turn this creature face down.
Vesuvan Shapeshifter #2 copying Vesuvan Shapeshifer
Watchwolf {WG}
Creature - Wolf
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may turn this creature face down.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may turn this creature face down.
At the beginning of your upkeep the second Shapeshifter's abilities trigger.
You put them on the stack.
When you resolve one, it is turned face down and the copy effect of it ends.
You can now turn it face up again for 1U and let's say copy a Fathom Seer to draw 2 cards.
Then the second triggered ability resolves and it's copy effect ends again.
It is turned face down again, ready to copy another creature when you pay its morph cost again.
"Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you."
My
540> 360 Powered CubeHey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)