I think Voice is amazing, and certainly worth $15-20 post rotation. At the worst, you get a 2/2 and then a 1/1 blocker. At its best, it creates so much headache for your opponent.
I'm not sold on Voice of Resurgence. Grand Abolisher was a lot better and rarely saw more than fringe play. I wouldn't want to buy this card above 6-7 even if it is a mythic.
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I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
What about this supposedly Simic's 4 CMC version of Mana Drain known as Plasm Capture? I preordered 4 on the off-chance it's a real card. What do you guys think?
What about this supposedly Simic's 4 CMC version of Mana Drain known as Plasm Capture? I preordered 4 on the off-chance it's a real card. What do you guys think?
How much do they cost now?
If low, it doesn't seem too bad. The thing that made Mana Drain SO good is that you'd do it in the early game and then get a game ender to play on the next turn. I'm not sure if it can be used like that in Standard. But, if it is low enough, I'll buy some myself.
EDIT> Just found out that they're $7 each. Kind of high in my opinion.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I'm not sold on Voice of Resurgence. Grand Abolisher was a lot better and rarely saw more than fringe play. I wouldn't want to buy this card above 6-7 even if it is a mythic.
Yeah the more I think about it, the more Voice feels like a punisher card.
If low, it doesn't seem too bad. The thing that made Mana Drain SO good is that you'd do it in the early game and then get a game ender to play on the next turn. I'm not sure if it can be used like that in Standard. But, if it is low enough, I'll buy some myself.
EDIT> Just found out that they're $7 each. Kind of high in my opinion.
I need a play set for a couple of bant decks of mine but I'm not sure about whether to pre order now or wait...I mean I see them as a playset preorder on ebay at about 20-30 but I also recall a card called mind shatter and that ONLY added a single black mana to Mind Twists mana cost and is a junk rare..so I'm hesitant to buy a playset at $20-30; what are player's opinions on whether to preorder now or wait if you need a playset???
That new mana drain card is probably better than people think. It doesn't add X colorless mana to your mana pool, it adds it in any COMBINATION of COLORED mana to your mana pool, which is incredible. Also, are people forgetting about sphinx's revelation so quickly? This card tears sphinx's revelation a new one. They do it for X=4 and all of a sudden you gain access to 7 extra mana in colored form next turn to do what you want like cast your own sphinx's revelation for a **** ton or cast enter the infinite and combo out or just combo out in general. The possibilities are endless. I just wish it was blue/red to make it better in combo decks although bant seems fine.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
That new mana drain card is probably better than people think. It doesn't add X colorless mana to your mana pool, it adds it in any COMBINATION of COLORED mana to your mana pool, which is incredible. Also, are people forgetting about sphinx's revelation so quickly? This card tears sphinx's revelation a new one. They do it for X=4 and all of a sudden you gain access to 7 extra mana in colored form next turn to do what you want like cast your own sphinx's revelation for a **** ton or cast enter the infinite and combo out or just combo out in general. The possibilities are endless. I just wish it was blue/red to make it better in combo decks although bant seems fine.
That new mana drain card is probably better than people think. It doesn't add X colorless mana to your mana pool, it adds it in any COMBINATION of COLORED mana to your mana pool, which is incredible. Also, are people forgetting about sphinx's revelation so quickly? This card tears sphinx's revelation a new one. They do it for X=4 and all of a sudden you gain access to 7 extra mana in colored form next turn to do what you want like cast your own sphinx's revelation for a **** ton or cast enter the infinite and combo out or just combo out in general. The possibilities are endless. I just wish it was blue/red to make it better in combo decks although bant seems fine.
Umm, the converted mana cost for Sphinx's Revelation is 3. If you tap out for Revelation and they counter with that spell they only get 3 mana, not the X amount. When looking at CMC X is always treated as 0.
Not sure I should ask in this thread or the "Guess the value" thread, but, anyone have any thoughts after playing the prerelease? Cards that you thought were better or worse than you thought and therefore think differently price wise? I know limited is much different than constructed, but some thoughts might be valuable.
I played Sire of Insanity in a couple of 1v1 EDH games and he was insane. If you have a slightly better board presence and play him you almost automatically win the game.
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Evil is even, truth is an odd number, and death is a full stop.
Aetherling, while really good, I think isn't agressively costed enough for current standard. So I wouldn't hang on to him too long. Sire has such a huge ability that he'll probably see play though. If you're playing a midrange/Aggro style build he shuts down control making him amazing. He single-handedly stops Spinx's Revelation, so it's safe to say he'll see play and his price will be good.
Figured I'd also throw in my sleeper pick, since I'm commenting in here: Zhur-Taa Ancient. Double mana and a 7/5 for 5 mana is amazing. I realize the drawback is that your opponent get's the mana first, but there are ways to fix that in current standard (Yeva being a solid pick). Also, you have plenty to ramp into. If you play him with 5-mana and flash from Yeva, either a craterhoof or a wolf-run will win the moment you untap. This is comparable to Valakut on the snap-win and the timing.
All that said and done, ZTA came out in the bulk spoil (which is almost a pre-requisite for a sleeper nowadays. If it came out on it's own it would be discovered beforehand) and you can currently get them around $0.50. So, as long as there's a ZTA deck getting attention you can expect him to jump to $5-$7 and talking in percentages that's huge.
I'm not sold on Voice of Resurgence. Grand Abolisher was a lot better and rarely saw more than fringe play. I wouldn't want to buy this card above 6-7 even if it is a mythic.
I have to chime in on this. I've heard a lot of talk about people looking to include this in maverick. Voice is way better than Abolisher. He has such great value as a 2-drop for a midrange build. The problem with Abolisher is that they just kill him. If you're surrounding voice with a bunch of other good creatures (and maybe a rancor on him) your opponent is going to not want to kill him unless they have to. Abolisher just stopped them from playing on your turn. Voice's death clause makes him much stronger.
I have to chime in on this. I've heard a lot of talk about people looking to include this in maverick. Voice is way better than Abolisher. He has such great value as a 2-drop for a midrange build. The problem with Abolisher is that they just kill him. If you're surrounding voice with a bunch of other good creatures (and maybe a rancor on him) your opponent is going to not want to kill him unless they have to. Abolisher just stopped them from playing on your turn. Voice's death clause makes him much stronger.
I tested with 4x Voice a lot over the weekend in a Junk tokens standard deck. In descending order it's best to worst against
1. Control - Great for immediately getting them out of their comfort zone
2. Aggro - Decent for stalling the game 1 or 2 turns
3. Midrange - Usually worse than just casting a turn 2 farseek
It did cause for some strange plays, though. I felt bad for the Izzet control player who charmed him at the end of my turn, giving me two 2/2s in the process.
Against Midrange decks like Jund I finally realized it's just better to board them out for charms or hand disruption spells.
Fun card but not deserving of a $25 price, in summary.
Two cards in the set that seem really good are Blood Baron Vizkopa (BBV) and of course Voice of Resurgence (VoR).
BBV- I can see this in junk rights/midrange builds easy for the 90% of removal avoided. Not great in Modern (maybe), but he seems undervalued at $9-10. 5 CMC is just fine for getting him out fairly quickly. I could see BBV value reaching $13-15 easy if it takes off as key piece to a massive lafe gain deck. Do any of you find this mythic is undervalued?
VoR- Very few creatures even touch this guys ability (Doomed travelor, Thragtusk, and Wurmcoil Engine). The ones that do fetch a decent price, thus having the anti-control feature just seems really strong for multiple formats. I picked mine up at $17 (1 playset only, not investing in VoR for resale) and find that may heve been the low price for some time to come. When you look at the top deck played in FNM standard; you see Esper, Bant, Jund, Naya, and Junk builds. Guess which ones have tons of Instant plays and would hate to see Token generation? Also Modern Bant, big maybe spirit Jund, Doran/Junk, Naya, and a Teeg build would really benefit from an anti-control mechanic. The question I pose is whether VoR is still a sleeper at $20? I know most of you will disagree, which promotes excellent discussion, but setting aside the means of how to deal with VoR; will he be main decked as a playset in top decks?
Two cards in the set that seem really good are Blood Baron Vizkopa (BBV) and of course Voice of Resurgence (VoR).
BBV- I can see this in junk rights/midrange builds easy for the 90% of removal avoided. Not great in Modern (maybe), but he seems undervalued at $9-10. 5 CMC is just fine for getting him out fairly quickly. I could see BBV value reaching $13-15 easy if it takes off as key piece to a massive lafe gain deck. Do any of you find this mythic is undervalued?
I think that it does a good job of dodging Azorius Charm / Detention Sphere. It doesn't do a good job of dodging Mizzium Mortars, Supreme Verdict, Turn & Burn, or Terminus. In other words, there's more than enough removal to keep it in check. And Liliana of the Veil still exists in the format. That said, it does turn into massive lifegain swings, not too far from Wurmcoil Engine, albeit a bit harder to cast. I do think, however, that you shouldn't really be evaluating it as a 10/10 - if you always consider it a 4/4, you'll see that it's solid, but it should be in check for the most part. Don't expect this to be format defining in the same way as Sphinx's Revelation.
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EDH/Commander is a social format, right? So why don't people use their social skills to discuss what they like and don't like, instead of adopting a list with 60+ banned cards?
Sire of Insanity is the toughest one for me in this set. It's power is undeniable but I just can't help but feel he can be played around. At 6 CMC I would hope people would see it coming... and the answers are numerous... any counter spell or instant speed removal. Further against more aggro/fast builds he is useless. He is just an inferior bomb to what you'll see across the table and both of you will be emptying out your hands. Finally, even if he does see play.... at 6 CMC I don't think he will be a 4 of. I could be wrong but I'm wary of him. He is not a slam dunk pick like reckoner was last set.
Aetherling is another interesting one that I'm leaning more towards. If you can cast him with 7 mana (assuming one extra blue)... he will end the game. The question is just if the format is slow enough for that or not. Right now? Probably not... but on rotation? Maybe. I'd hold onto any I open and maybe even trade for some when he dips lower as most rares will.
For me I think the value right now is in the fuse cards. Most are reeaaaaallly cheap and I think people are underestimating their flexibility.
Flesh//Blood could be very good (just for the blood half) Ready//Willing is perfect for fast aggro strategies and is the safest bet to me. Beck//Call is obvious... just remains to be seen if it makes waves in modern or not
[CARD]
Plasm Capture[/CARD] is also an interesting (non-fuse) one that could make for a new archetype. I'm not buying into it but I'll be on the watch for it to hopefully catch it if it starts to trend upward.
For bloodbaron... I would not be surprised if he rose a bit... but he is the type of creature that will rise and fall based on the meta. The more white and black is in power the better he is... then people will shift away from that and mainboard other threats/answers he is not so good against... and he'll wane... rinse and repeat the cyclic process. Tough for a card like that to stay super high especially with ghost dad out there in the same CMC slot... but he is not going to fall either IMO since he will keep popping up here and there based on the meta.
Also Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch is one to watch out for on rotation. Wait till she dips in a month or two but she will slot in right where falkenrath aristocrat and hellrider go.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=487991
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Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
How much do they cost now?If low, it doesn't seem too bad. The thing that made Mana Drain SO good is that you'd do it in the early game and then get a game ender to play on the next turn. I'm not sure if it can be used like that in Standard. But, if it is low enough, I'll buy some myself.
EDIT> Just found out that they're $7 each. Kind of high in my opinion.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Yeah the more I think about it, the more Voice feels like a punisher card.
I see it as a strangleroot geist / grand abolisher hybrid.. at mythic. So a 10$ - 12$ card imho.
I haven't seen any cards worth pre-ordering at all. They'll all be down hard after release hits..
I need a play set for a couple of bant decks of mine but I'm not sure about whether to pre order now or wait...I mean I see them as a playset preorder on ebay at about 20-30 but I also recall a card called mind shatter and that ONLY added a single black mana to Mind Twists mana cost and is a junk rare..so I'm hesitant to buy a playset at $20-30; what are player's opinions on whether to preorder now or wait if you need a playset???
That being said, I think most of these cards will tank hard a few weeks after release. Sellers are too afraid of missing the next Boros Reckoner.
Blood Witch prolly go up after rotation when we lose both hellrider and aristocrat
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If you're playing Enter the Infinite, you're playing Standard wrong.
Umm, the converted mana cost for Sphinx's Revelation is 3. If you tap out for Revelation and they counter with that spell they only get 3 mana, not the X amount. When looking at CMC X is always treated as 0.
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It's a good play to counter it.
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Figured I'd also throw in my sleeper pick, since I'm commenting in here: Zhur-Taa Ancient. Double mana and a 7/5 for 5 mana is amazing. I realize the drawback is that your opponent get's the mana first, but there are ways to fix that in current standard (Yeva being a solid pick). Also, you have plenty to ramp into. If you play him with 5-mana and flash from Yeva, either a craterhoof or a wolf-run will win the moment you untap. This is comparable to Valakut on the snap-win and the timing.
All that said and done, ZTA came out in the bulk spoil (which is almost a pre-requisite for a sleeper nowadays. If it came out on it's own it would be discovered beforehand) and you can currently get them around $0.50. So, as long as there's a ZTA deck getting attention you can expect him to jump to $5-$7 and talking in percentages that's huge.
I have to chime in on this. I've heard a lot of talk about people looking to include this in maverick. Voice is way better than Abolisher. He has such great value as a 2-drop for a midrange build. The problem with Abolisher is that they just kill him. If you're surrounding voice with a bunch of other good creatures (and maybe a rancor on him) your opponent is going to not want to kill him unless they have to. Abolisher just stopped them from playing on your turn. Voice's death clause makes him much stronger.
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
I tested with 4x Voice a lot over the weekend in a Junk tokens standard deck. In descending order it's best to worst against
1. Control - Great for immediately getting them out of their comfort zone
2. Aggro - Decent for stalling the game 1 or 2 turns
3. Midrange - Usually worse than just casting a turn 2 farseek
It did cause for some strange plays, though. I felt bad for the Izzet control player who charmed him at the end of my turn, giving me two 2/2s in the process.
Against Midrange decks like Jund I finally realized it's just better to board them out for charms or hand disruption spells.
Fun card but not deserving of a $25 price, in summary.
BBV- I can see this in junk rights/midrange builds easy for the 90% of removal avoided. Not great in Modern (maybe), but he seems undervalued at $9-10. 5 CMC is just fine for getting him out fairly quickly. I could see BBV value reaching $13-15 easy if it takes off as key piece to a massive lafe gain deck. Do any of you find this mythic is undervalued?
VoR- Very few creatures even touch this guys ability (Doomed travelor, Thragtusk, and Wurmcoil Engine). The ones that do fetch a decent price, thus having the anti-control feature just seems really strong for multiple formats. I picked mine up at $17 (1 playset only, not investing in VoR for resale) and find that may heve been the low price for some time to come. When you look at the top deck played in FNM standard; you see Esper, Bant, Jund, Naya, and Junk builds. Guess which ones have tons of Instant plays and would hate to see Token generation? Also Modern Bant, big maybe spirit Jund, Doran/Junk, Naya, and a Teeg build would really benefit from an anti-control mechanic. The question I pose is whether VoR is still a sleeper at $20? I know most of you will disagree, which promotes excellent discussion, but setting aside the means of how to deal with VoR; will he be main decked as a playset in top decks?
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
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I think that it does a good job of dodging Azorius Charm / Detention Sphere. It doesn't do a good job of dodging Mizzium Mortars, Supreme Verdict, Turn & Burn, or Terminus. In other words, there's more than enough removal to keep it in check. And Liliana of the Veil still exists in the format. That said, it does turn into massive lifegain swings, not too far from Wurmcoil Engine, albeit a bit harder to cast. I do think, however, that you shouldn't really be evaluating it as a 10/10 - if you always consider it a 4/4, you'll see that it's solid, but it should be in check for the most part. Don't expect this to be format defining in the same way as Sphinx's Revelation.
Went to a new shop from a friend's recommendation, DQ'ed for willful violation of CR 100.6b.
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Modern:
- GW Birthing Pod(?)
Legacy:
- UWR Delver
Aetherling is another interesting one that I'm leaning more towards. If you can cast him with 7 mana (assuming one extra blue)... he will end the game. The question is just if the format is slow enough for that or not. Right now? Probably not... but on rotation? Maybe. I'd hold onto any I open and maybe even trade for some when he dips lower as most rares will.
For me I think the value right now is in the fuse cards. Most are reeaaaaallly cheap and I think people are underestimating their flexibility.
Flesh//Blood could be very good (just for the blood half)
Ready//Willing is perfect for fast aggro strategies and is the safest bet to me.
Beck//Call is obvious... just remains to be seen if it makes waves in modern or not
[CARD]
Plasm Capture[/CARD] is also an interesting (non-fuse) one that could make for a new archetype. I'm not buying into it but I'll be on the watch for it to hopefully catch it if it starts to trend upward.
For bloodbaron... I would not be surprised if he rose a bit... but he is the type of creature that will rise and fall based on the meta. The more white and black is in power the better he is... then people will shift away from that and mainboard other threats/answers he is not so good against... and he'll wane... rinse and repeat the cyclic process. Tough for a card like that to stay super high especially with ghost dad out there in the same CMC slot... but he is not going to fall either IMO since he will keep popping up here and there based on the meta.
Also Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch is one to watch out for on rotation. Wait till she dips in a month or two but she will slot in right where falkenrath aristocrat and hellrider go.