How much does damage usually knock off of the value of a card? I know that it's more for foils and other "I'm buying this to be awesome" cards, less for UL/RV dual lands and stuff in that category.
Reason I ask is, I've been sent a creased Sword of Fire and Ice that was advertised as "NM". What percentage is reasonable to ask for as restitution? How much should I expect to discount this card if/when I trade it? SCG docks 10% on this card going from NM to SP, and the pack version has a 14% deduction going from SP to MP. Are those consistent and reasonable discounts? I feel like the market really shrinks for an MP judge foil.
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For cards I sent out (only happened to me once and it was in a top loader and foam mailer... so no idea HOW it happened) I let the other party decide as they can actually see the card and it clearly is my fault.
This obviously doesn't apply to higher end cards (like revised duals etc). It looks like a judge promo SOFAI from the pic... which could qualify as a higher end/demand card... in which case I usually hit up TCGP and see how much of a hit the card takes for similar amounts of wear. That said... creases are the toughest to handle in my opinion so I typically avoid them (i.e. won't trade for them and would ask for my stuff back if I received one).
If the crease is severe enough (from the picture it does not appear to be) I'd put it at HP. From the pic that looks more like a MP to me. I'd ask for 30% of the NM value if it was me (actually I'd ask to send it back for a refund)... as damaged foils are a pain to get rid of. The market for them is a lot smaller by being a foil... and most people buy foils for pimp which is completely ruined by the damage.
Every situation is a little different though and I'm guessing some others with more experience than I can better advise.
For cards I sent out (only happened to me once and it was in a top loader and foam mailer... so no idea HOW it happened) I let the other party decide as they can actually see the card and it clearly is my fault.
This obviously doesn't apply to higher end cards (like revised duals etc). It looks like a judge promo SOFAI from the pic... which could qualify as a higher end/demand card... in which case I usually hit up TCGP and see how much of a hit the card takes for similar amounts of wear. That said... creases are the toughest to handle in my opinion so I typically avoid them (i.e. won't trade for them and would ask for my stuff back if I received one).
If the crease is severe enough (from the picture it does not appear to be) I'd put it at HP. From the pic that looks more like a MP to me. I'd ask for 30% of the NM value if it was me (actually I'd ask to send it back for a refund)... as damaged foils are a pain to get rid of. The market for them is a lot smaller by being a foil... and most people buy foils for pimp which is completely ruined by the damage.
Every situation is a little different though and I'm guessing some others with more experience than I can better advise.
If I'd gotten it via a normal (easy) route, I'd send it back for a return. It's coming to me via proxy through MKM from a private seller, and I don't want to put my friend through too much postal hassle. He's also the one emailing the seller.
SCG's condition guide shows a pretty similar crease in one of their "MP" examples. I don't use SCG for too much, but they have a great guide - lots of pictures of different types of damage. Thus, I'm trying to figure out how much of a refund I'm looking for. My initial thought was 50% last night when the crease looked worse, now I'm thinking a third would be fair. But this is really a gut thing for me, so I'm asking for your help, MTGS.
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Assuming that the Sword looks otherwise fine, I think 1/3 back is probably fair. It's not the worst crease I've seen, but it's definitely visible and is enough to make it MP, in my opinion.
Assuming that the Sword looks otherwise fine, I think 1/3 back is probably fair. It's not the worst crease I've seen, but it's definitely visible and is enough to make it MP, in my opinion.
I am with cythare on this one. If the card is otherwise NM/M, and the crease/creases at the top are the only problems then I would say 1/3rd back would be fair compensation if you were okay with having a creased card anyway. I know from my own experiences, buyers of higher end foils tend to be particularly picky and wouldn't touch a creased foil with a 10-foot pole. So that's something else I suppose you would need to keep in mind. As I mentioned in the other reply I posted in the other thread, I would need to see a picture of the back to be able to make a full and proper judgment in addition to whole pictures of the front and back to determine that no other wear/issues existed. Unfortunately the trouble with dealing with an intermediary is that everyone has their own ideas about condition of cards, especially when it comes to foils, so that's why extensive pictures are so important. But, as I said, if the only damage are the aforementioned/pictured creases, then yeah, 1/3rd back should be fair, but if you are uncomfortable or don't like creased cards, I would say asking your friend to return it for a refund should be fine, as much of a hassle as it might be, its better to ask them/compensate them for the extra hassle than get a card in a condition that wouldn't make you happy to have it in the long run.
Honestly, with a noticeable crease like that, I would just send it back. You can't really collate the normal wear scale with something like that. You ordered NM to begin with - if you wanted a damaged card (or wanted to save a few dollars), you would have ordered one to begin with. I agree with you that the market for that sort of thing is probably quite small. Like, I look at the foil JTMSes for sale, and I see quite a few for 10% off or so, and I can't help but wonder who is actually going to try and save $50 off a $500 card for a card that looks like crap when its cloudy, scuffed and bent. It's for this reason that I doubt I'm ever going to be able to part with my MP foil vindicates.
Honestly, with a noticeable crease like that, I would just send it back. You can't really collate the normal wear scale with something like that. You ordered NM to begin with - if you wanted a damaged card (or wanted to save a few dollars), you would have ordered one to begin with. I agree with you that the market for that sort of thing is probably quite small. Like, I look at the foil JTMSes for sale, and I see quite a few for 10% off or so, and I can't help but wonder who is actually going to try and save $50 off a $500 card for a card that looks like crap when its cloudy, scuffed and bent. It's for this reason that I doubt I'm ever going to be able to part with my MP foil vindicates.
True, but he ordered it through a friend off MKM. Sending it back is a lot of extra work and hoops to jump through.
OT:I have a wasteland in similar condition I bought as "damaged" from channelfireball a few years ago, and it was at 60% of the NM price. It was $75, NM was $125 at the time. Here's pictures:
I'd say anywhere around 60%-70% of value in return is fair.
I already commented on the other thread about MCM. If you buy a nm judge foil, it should be nm. Ask for a full refund and postahe for return and ask your friend to ship it back. It sucks that it makes it a added burden on your friend, but these do happen sometimes and there really isn't much market for damaged judge foils.
If one checks the judge Lightning Bolt market, the only copies actually availlable are played or damaged copies, which dealers are left with and cannot move. While the Sword is much more cheaper card, it's a high end card, and people buying these will want nm copies. Nobody wants to be a cheap pimp.
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Reason I ask is, I've been sent a creased Sword of Fire and Ice that was advertised as "NM". What percentage is reasonable to ask for as restitution? How much should I expect to discount this card if/when I trade it? SCG docks 10% on this card going from NM to SP, and the pack version has a 14% deduction going from SP to MP. Are those consistent and reasonable discounts? I feel like the market really shrinks for an MP judge foil.
http://www.blackborder.com/cgi-bin/customscripts/help/condition.cgi
For cards I sent out (only happened to me once and it was in a top loader and foam mailer... so no idea HOW it happened) I let the other party decide as they can actually see the card and it clearly is my fault.
This obviously doesn't apply to higher end cards (like revised duals etc). It looks like a judge promo SOFAI from the pic... which could qualify as a higher end/demand card... in which case I usually hit up TCGP and see how much of a hit the card takes for similar amounts of wear. That said... creases are the toughest to handle in my opinion so I typically avoid them (i.e. won't trade for them and would ask for my stuff back if I received one).
If the crease is severe enough (from the picture it does not appear to be) I'd put it at HP. From the pic that looks more like a MP to me. I'd ask for 30% of the NM value if it was me (actually I'd ask to send it back for a refund)... as damaged foils are a pain to get rid of. The market for them is a lot smaller by being a foil... and most people buy foils for pimp which is completely ruined by the damage.
Every situation is a little different though and I'm guessing some others with more experience than I can better advise.
If I'd gotten it via a normal (easy) route, I'd send it back for a return. It's coming to me via proxy through MKM from a private seller, and I don't want to put my friend through too much postal hassle. He's also the one emailing the seller.
SCG's condition guide shows a pretty similar crease in one of their "MP" examples. I don't use SCG for too much, but they have a great guide - lots of pictures of different types of damage. Thus, I'm trying to figure out how much of a refund I'm looking for. My initial thought was 50% last night when the crease looked worse, now I'm thinking a third would be fair. But this is really a gut thing for me, so I'm asking for your help, MTGS.
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I am with cythare on this one. If the card is otherwise NM/M, and the crease/creases at the top are the only problems then I would say 1/3rd back would be fair compensation if you were okay with having a creased card anyway. I know from my own experiences, buyers of higher end foils tend to be particularly picky and wouldn't touch a creased foil with a 10-foot pole. So that's something else I suppose you would need to keep in mind. As I mentioned in the other reply I posted in the other thread, I would need to see a picture of the back to be able to make a full and proper judgment in addition to whole pictures of the front and back to determine that no other wear/issues existed. Unfortunately the trouble with dealing with an intermediary is that everyone has their own ideas about condition of cards, especially when it comes to foils, so that's why extensive pictures are so important. But, as I said, if the only damage are the aforementioned/pictured creases, then yeah, 1/3rd back should be fair, but if you are uncomfortable or don't like creased cards, I would say asking your friend to return it for a refund should be fine, as much of a hassle as it might be, its better to ask them/compensate them for the extra hassle than get a card in a condition that wouldn't make you happy to have it in the long run.
True, but he ordered it through a friend off MKM. Sending it back is a lot of extra work and hoops to jump through.
OT:I have a wasteland in similar condition I bought as "damaged" from channelfireball a few years ago, and it was at 60% of the NM price. It was $75, NM was $125 at the time. Here's pictures:
I'd say anywhere around 60%-70% of value in return is fair.
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If one checks the judge Lightning Bolt market, the only copies actually availlable are played or damaged copies, which dealers are left with and cannot move. While the Sword is much more cheaper card, it's a high end card, and people buying these will want nm copies. Nobody wants to be a cheap pimp.
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