I see this problem a lot where shops cancel orders where a card has gone up in price or they do not fulfill preorders so I wanted start a list of sites, ebay stores, etc that do cancel an order for the above reason.
Sites that users have reported as having been known to CANCEL:
Magic Bazaar (A weird case, but essentially they sold information of what people purchased. Not a cancel, but it does run afoul of the spirit of Point 4 below)
Also, I dug up an article that outlines some things. With MTG growing in popularity, this article is a touch out of date in a sense, but the core thoughts remain true for stores:
Quote from Cancelled! by Kelly Reid »
All's Fair in Love and War
Considering the definitions above, we should probably define our terms of engagement. What's fair game? What isn't? Well, rather than sit here and hammer out the Geneva Convention of Magic Cards, let's apply some common business sense.
Rule 1: If you publish a price, honor the price. This is non-negotiable. If you cannot take the time to proofread your business' website and allow a decimal place in the wrong spot, you are a sloppy businessperson. If you can't keep up on your current prices*, you deserve to lose the money because you didn't do the work to keep it. Mistakes cost money in the real world. While you will not be lambasted for not honoring a $25 Mox Ruby, it shouldn't happen in the first place.
Rule 2: Honor quantities. If you don't want people to order more than X of a card at once, ensure your POS system will not allow this. The following reasons are irrelevant and demonstrate that you are either cheap, ignorant or both: My eCommerce system doesn't allow that. We want to keep stock for local customers. We didn't actually have that many in stock (this one is usually just a bold-faced lie).
Rule 3: The customer's order doesn't need to make sense. Your job is to conduct the transaction in the most efficient way possible, not to ask my why someone just ordered 50 copies of Mortician Beetle. Don't ask, because they're not going to tell. If you don't want their money, then don't make 50 of them available on your site. See Rule 2.
Rule 4:You are disposable. You are a middle-man that conducts a relatively simple "pawn shop" model, which has been around as long as currency has existed. Nothing you do is new, exceptional, revolutionary, or even "good". You are simply a machine to make profit and mark up cards, and as long as you can do this while keeping satesfied the people who Feed the Machine, you may continue doing this. At such a point where you cease to be the most efficient option, you are a dinosaur and should be thrown into a Rocky Tar Pit. This is business, and if someone can get more stuff, cheaper, and more reliably, elsewhere, they will. Don't become angry at your customers for making the reasonable choice. If you don't want a customer's money, there are a hundred other sellers that do.
Many people will read this and consider it unnecessarily harsh, but if you compare a store who abides by these rules to a store that does not, you will quickly see why they matter. The bottom line is that your commercial framework should ensure that no customer can take an action you are not willing to honor. Ever. Non-negotiable.
Also, to perserve what Drifting Skies said: Mod Note: So as not to turn this into a thread of "slander stores you don't like", please try to provide some documentation if you believe that a store should belong on this list.
Cape Fear is my favorite, but LegitMTG does a great job too. I got Trostani there for like $3 preorder, and they spiked at $15 after prerelease Never cancelled, never balked, even wrote a note saying it was a smart buy.
Actually I believe Troll and Toad has been guilty of this plenty of times.
I removed them for now. Anyone else have proof of T&T cancelling orders?
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Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
The problem with a list of stores that DON'T do a particular thing is that you can never complete the list (it's impossible), and the stores that should be on the list but aren't will then be assumed to be dishonest. Much better would be a list of stores known to cancel orders when the price goes up. I'll start it off with my own personal experience with this problem:
- channelfireball
Ordered from them 3 times and was jacked around (quite badly) 2 of those times.
The problem with a list of stores that DON'T do a particular thing is that you can never complete the list (it's impossible), and the stores that should be on the list but aren't will then be assumed to be dishonest. Much better would be a list of stores known to cancel orders when the price goes up. I'll start it off with my own personal experience with this problem:
- channelfireball
Ordered from them 3 times and was jacked around (quite badly) 2 of those times.
When was the last time you ran into the issue with channel fireball? I havent really ran into an issue with them over such things of late, so I wonder it perhaps they may have gotten better about such things.
The problem with a list of stores that DON'T do a particular thing is that you can never complete the list (it's impossible), and the stores that should be on the list but aren't will then be assumed to be dishonest. Much better would be a list of stores known to cancel orders when the price goes up. I'll start it off with my own personal experience with this problem:
- channelfireball
Ordered from them 3 times and was jacked around (quite badly) 2 of those times.
OK I will move CFB to the list of sites that do cancel at your request. Hopefully someone else can verify that this happens with them.
Also does anyone else have any interest in taking this over? I thought it was a good idea but having me run it may be a bad idea since I'm also a competitor of all of these stores. Might be better to get someone unaffiliated to take it over.
PureMTGO MTGOTraders - Coupon mtgsallypaypal for 8% off orders paid for with paypal. MTGO Hotlist! - Pays more than bots for singles. CapeFearGames - Coupon mtgsally for 5% off entire order. Orders ship same day if order placed before 3pm EST M-F. Do not stack with other coupons please.
Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
Got cheated 40 pre-order Boros Reckoners by MTGFanatic.
I'm sorry, but you ordered 40 of them? And you expected it to ship? Am I the only one that see's this as comical? Maybe I just have no faith in the pre-order community, but damn.
I sometimes wonder why shops even do pre-orders. It's way too much of a headache.
I'm sorry, but you ordered 40 of them? And you expected it to ship? Am I the only one that see's this as comical? Maybe I just have no faith in the pre-order community, but damn.
I sometimes wonder why shops even do pre-orders. It's way too much of a headache.
If a shop isn't willing to honour an order of 40, then they shouldn't list 40. They should list 8. It's that simple.
If there's 40 "in stock" then one person ordering all of them is completely fair game.
I'm sorry, but you ordered 40 of them? And you expected it to ship? Am I the only one that see's this as comical? Maybe I just have no faith in the pre-order community, but damn.
I sometimes wonder why shops even do pre-orders. It's way too much of a headache.
Stores rather lock in inflated prices and cater to those who are willing to pay a premium to get their hands on the latest and greatest cards before the set's average value starts to fade beginning a week or two after release.
Yeah, it's pretty scummy that some stores tell you to **** off if you pre-order at much lower prices then the market dictates but they know you can't do anything except get your money back. They have all the incentive in the world to take your money on products that they only conditionally have to deliver.
If a shop isn't willing to honour an order of 40, then they shouldn't list 40. They should list 8. It's that simple.
If there's 40 "in stock" then one person ordering all of them is completely fair game.
There are, unfortunately, a boatload of stores that have limits, especially 8, for example as an upper limit, or through the site specifically mention that they reserve the right to cancel any order for any reason (more or less). Usually best not to push your luck when it comes to pre-ordering such large numbers from a single store unless you know for 100% certainty that the store is known for always filling any size of preorder.
That said, personally I dont presell anything, never have, really annoyed the heck out of some of my customers at the shop I used to sell at, because they were looking for deals. However, once I listed the cards on ebay, if I listed, say, 20 playsets of deathrite shaman or something, then if someone comes in and grabs up all 20 playsets, more power to em I always say. If the card shoots up after they buy it from me, or I wasnt quick enough on an adjustment, well, to me, I still sold them at a price I was happy at. I would always fill any orders I sell on ebay, period. I double, triple and quadruple check my inventory, on a consistent and regular basis if Im going to list stuff (usually once a week, once every other week at the very least) while continually updating my inventory as I sell stuff (I also never crossed my shop inventory with my online inventory, something I dont feel businesses should do, because it can and does lead to inventory errors, which leads to unhappy customers.)
There is also the old saying "if its too good to be true, it probably is". Thats why you have to be careful when ordering something that may, at the time, be below what everyone else is selling at, especially if they have a history of cancelling order, or have a policy in place that makes mention of such kinds of cancelling orders.
Another thing to keep in mind, is that if you are worried, you can always contact the business itself, and talk to someone there about your order and make sure they put tracking/insurance/expedited shipping on it (better to pay a little extra for shipping on that pre-order than to risk them coming up with the excuse that it was "lost in the mail".)
I removed them for now. Anyone else have proof of T&T cancelling orders?
Although they will never admit to canceling orders this way, just look at the post in the T&T thread last week where some guy didn't get his # of reckoners due to 'inventory error'.
Honestly CFB and T&T are two of the first two shops (sorry MTGFanatic isn't a shop in my mind) that are obvious order cancelers. All you have to do a quick search on these forums/google to find that much out.
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Quote from Matt McCullough »
I'm bad at magic, you're bad at magic, and Level 4 Pro Ari Lax is terrible at magic.
When CFG's first opened we limited an order from a guy that was specc'ing on a card. It really hurt our rep. and I let my emotions get the best of me and ended up handling it poorly. Our site allowed you to buy as many as we had in stock but we also had something in our FAQ asking people to not buy more than 8x of a card without permission first. We eventually got the software upgraded to only show 8x of a card now which has fixed that problem but we have never limited an order since due to someone specc'ing on a card.
Our reputation is much more important than worrying about market changes.
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Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
The problem with a list of stores that DON'T do a particular thing is that you can never complete the list (it's impossible), and the stores that should be on the list but aren't will then be assumed to be dishonest. Much better would be a list of stores known to cancel orders when the price goes up.
Exactly. I am going to edit the OP so we can work on a list of stores that cancel pre-orders. A list of those that don't is pretty pointless.
Would someone else mind taking this over? I would rather a non store owner run this list.
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Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
Sweet! Would you mind starting a new thread and updating the list and could a mod please close this one?
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Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
Wait - mmm wouldn't it be 10x easier to just list shops that do NOT cancel orders? It's a pretty short list of one: SCG (apologies to wilmheath if CapeFear doesn't either - never been in that situation. Although to be honest, limiting quantities to 8 kinda achieves the same objective but I guess there's 8 copies available to not cancel, better than 0). There's dozens if not hundreds of small shops and individuals listing on tcgplayer, it'd take forever to list any sizeable percentage.
Wait - mmm wouldn't it be 10x easier to just list shops that do NOT cancel orders? It's a pretty short list of one: SCG (apologies to wilmheath if CapeFear doesn't either - never been in that situation. Although to be honest, limiting quantities to 8 kinda achieves the same objective but I guess there's 8 copies available to not cancel, better than 0). There's dozens if not hundreds of small shops and individuals listing on tcgplayer, it'd take forever to list any sizeable percentage.
We cancelled one 2 years ago and haven't since then. It was a mistake and I made a public apology.
What if the list instead shows which stores cancel and then has a number beside the store which shows how many people have reported in the thread a cancellation? Some only do it occasionally or if there is an obvious numerical mistake(.001 instead of $100) for instance.
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Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
Personally I find it generally worthwhile to just look through the store discussion part of the forums here to see what people have had to stay about particular stores. Most stores have their own thread of some kind or another. Obviously having all of the information about the stores that cancel orders under such circumstances in one place makes it a lot easier to see.
As a side note. There is nothing wrong with a store limiting purchases to 8 of a card, especially if only 8 of the card are listed on their site at any one time. I've always considered 8 to be a fair number to allow a customer to purchase at any one time, allowing for them to purchase a playset to use, and then another for trading/selling purposes, or potentially a playset being purchased for another person.
I personally don't limit people on their purchases, at least not from my ebay sales. Whatever I list the cards at are prices I'm happy to sell the cards for. If a price shoots up and I don't catch it in time, then good for the person who catches it. However I also NEVER do pre-sales, much as that has annoyed customers of mine in the past.
The best tool for a business to use in order to limit speculation and maximize the amount of customers that are able to get certain cards whether upon an increase in demand or otherwise is to not list all of their stock of cards at any one time. A store may have 40 available, but may only list 8 at a time. This also gives that store the ability to respond to sudden demand spikes without risking their entire inventory in the process.
As for my own speculation/buying before/during an increase, there are a lot of stores out there that will cancel/lie about such orders in order to make a few (well, sometimes a lot more than a few) extra dollars. However there are also quite a lot that will honor such orders. Personally I would rather have a list of the stores that are known for cancelling orders so I know who to avoid. I would assume all of the other stores are fine until its been shown that they aren't.
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Sites that users have reported as having been known to CANCEL:
Also, I dug up an article that outlines some things. With MTG growing in popularity, this article is a touch out of date in a sense, but the core thoughts remain true for stores:
Also, to perserve what Drifting Skies said: Mod Note: So as not to turn this into a thread of "slander stores you don't like", please try to provide some documentation if you believe that a store should belong on this list.
Also, hello "thepeter" and "childishserpent"
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyI removed them for now. Anyone else have proof of T&T cancelling orders?
MTGOTraders - Coupon mtgsallypaypal for 8% off orders paid for with paypal.
MTGO Hotlist! - Pays more than bots for singles.
CapeFearGames - Coupon mtgsally for 5% off entire order. Orders ship same day if order placed before 3pm EST M-F. Do not stack with other coupons please.
Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
- channelfireball
Ordered from them 3 times and was jacked around (quite badly) 2 of those times.
.
When was the last time you ran into the issue with channel fireball? I havent really ran into an issue with them over such things of late, so I wonder it perhaps they may have gotten better about such things.
OK I will move CFB to the list of sites that do cancel at your request. Hopefully someone else can verify that this happens with them.
Also does anyone else have any interest in taking this over? I thought it was a good idea but having me run it may be a bad idea since I'm also a competitor of all of these stores. Might be better to get someone unaffiliated to take it over.
MTGOTraders - Coupon mtgsallypaypal for 8% off orders paid for with paypal.
MTGO Hotlist! - Pays more than bots for singles.
CapeFearGames - Coupon mtgsally for 5% off entire order. Orders ship same day if order placed before 3pm EST M-F. Do not stack with other coupons please.
Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
I'm sorry, but you ordered 40 of them? And you expected it to ship? Am I the only one that see's this as comical? Maybe I just have no faith in the pre-order community, but damn.
I sometimes wonder why shops even do pre-orders. It's way too much of a headache.
If a shop isn't willing to honour an order of 40, then they shouldn't list 40. They should list 8. It's that simple.
If there's 40 "in stock" then one person ordering all of them is completely fair game.
Stores rather lock in inflated prices and cater to those who are willing to pay a premium to get their hands on the latest and greatest cards before the set's average value starts to fade beginning a week or two after release.
Yeah, it's pretty scummy that some stores tell you to **** off if you pre-order at much lower prices then the market dictates but they know you can't do anything except get your money back. They have all the incentive in the world to take your money on products that they only conditionally have to deliver.
There are, unfortunately, a boatload of stores that have limits, especially 8, for example as an upper limit, or through the site specifically mention that they reserve the right to cancel any order for any reason (more or less). Usually best not to push your luck when it comes to pre-ordering such large numbers from a single store unless you know for 100% certainty that the store is known for always filling any size of preorder.
That said, personally I dont presell anything, never have, really annoyed the heck out of some of my customers at the shop I used to sell at, because they were looking for deals. However, once I listed the cards on ebay, if I listed, say, 20 playsets of deathrite shaman or something, then if someone comes in and grabs up all 20 playsets, more power to em I always say. If the card shoots up after they buy it from me, or I wasnt quick enough on an adjustment, well, to me, I still sold them at a price I was happy at. I would always fill any orders I sell on ebay, period. I double, triple and quadruple check my inventory, on a consistent and regular basis if Im going to list stuff (usually once a week, once every other week at the very least) while continually updating my inventory as I sell stuff (I also never crossed my shop inventory with my online inventory, something I dont feel businesses should do, because it can and does lead to inventory errors, which leads to unhappy customers.)
There is also the old saying "if its too good to be true, it probably is". Thats why you have to be careful when ordering something that may, at the time, be below what everyone else is selling at, especially if they have a history of cancelling order, or have a policy in place that makes mention of such kinds of cancelling orders.
Another thing to keep in mind, is that if you are worried, you can always contact the business itself, and talk to someone there about your order and make sure they put tracking/insurance/expedited shipping on it (better to pay a little extra for shipping on that pre-order than to risk them coming up with the excuse that it was "lost in the mail".)
Although they will never admit to canceling orders this way, just look at the post in the T&T thread last week where some guy didn't get his # of reckoners due to 'inventory error'.
Honestly CFB and T&T are two of the first two shops (sorry MTGFanatic isn't a shop in my mind) that are obvious order cancelers. All you have to do a quick search on these forums/google to find that much out.
My Trade List (long dead)
My Sales List (long dead)
">Foil Japanese Death and Taxes! (In progress, needs <10 cards)
Our reputation is much more important than worrying about market changes.
MTGOTraders - Coupon mtgsallypaypal for 8% off orders paid for with paypal.
MTGO Hotlist! - Pays more than bots for singles.
CapeFearGames - Coupon mtgsally for 5% off entire order. Orders ship same day if order placed before 3pm EST M-F. Do not stack with other coupons please.
Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
Exactly. I am going to edit the OP so we can work on a list of stores that cancel pre-orders. A list of those that don't is pretty pointless.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Apparently "channelfireball" browses this forum....
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=aleeshads&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers
.
Not sure I'm following. You think this "aleeshads" is an agent of CFB since they left bad feedback for you and good feedback for CFB?
Rancored Elf will cancel your order if prices go up. Read about him and other shady vendors here.
My Trade Thread!
You're based in Canada?
Well, jeez, even I know that shipping from Canada takes a while...
Some people...
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AVOID MTG Fanatic ! Remands Orders and Re-lists cards for more money!
MTGOTraders - Coupon mtgsallypaypal for 8% off orders paid for with paypal.
MTGO Hotlist! - Pays more than bots for singles.
CapeFearGames - Coupon mtgsally for 5% off entire order. Orders ship same day if order placed before 3pm EST M-F. Do not stack with other coupons please.
Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
Sweet! Would you mind starting a new thread and updating the list and could a mod please close this one?
MTGOTraders - Coupon mtgsallypaypal for 8% off orders paid for with paypal.
MTGO Hotlist! - Pays more than bots for singles.
CapeFearGames - Coupon mtgsally for 5% off entire order. Orders ship same day if order placed before 3pm EST M-F. Do not stack with other coupons please.
Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
We cancelled one 2 years ago and haven't since then. It was a mistake and I made a public apology.
What if the list instead shows which stores cancel and then has a number beside the store which shows how many people have reported in the thread a cancellation? Some only do it occasionally or if there is an obvious numerical mistake(.001 instead of $100) for instance.
MTGOTraders - Coupon mtgsallypaypal for 8% off orders paid for with paypal.
MTGO Hotlist! - Pays more than bots for singles.
CapeFearGames - Coupon mtgsally for 5% off entire order. Orders ship same day if order placed before 3pm EST M-F. Do not stack with other coupons please.
Paying extra 20% on paper cards for MTGOTraders credits.
As a side note. There is nothing wrong with a store limiting purchases to 8 of a card, especially if only 8 of the card are listed on their site at any one time. I've always considered 8 to be a fair number to allow a customer to purchase at any one time, allowing for them to purchase a playset to use, and then another for trading/selling purposes, or potentially a playset being purchased for another person.
I personally don't limit people on their purchases, at least not from my ebay sales. Whatever I list the cards at are prices I'm happy to sell the cards for. If a price shoots up and I don't catch it in time, then good for the person who catches it. However I also NEVER do pre-sales, much as that has annoyed customers of mine in the past.
The best tool for a business to use in order to limit speculation and maximize the amount of customers that are able to get certain cards whether upon an increase in demand or otherwise is to not list all of their stock of cards at any one time. A store may have 40 available, but may only list 8 at a time. This also gives that store the ability to respond to sudden demand spikes without risking their entire inventory in the process.
As for my own speculation/buying before/during an increase, there are a lot of stores out there that will cancel/lie about such orders in order to make a few (well, sometimes a lot more than a few) extra dollars. However there are also quite a lot that will honor such orders. Personally I would rather have a list of the stores that are known for cancelling orders so I know who to avoid. I would assume all of the other stores are fine until its been shown that they aren't.