Special thanks to Chromatone for helping me provide the information for this primer! For his helpful thread and previous discussion, click here.
Overview
With a bunch of aggro and combo (such as storm) in the modern metagame, Uw(x) control fits in very nicely. It usually runs a good amount of blue, some amount of white, and possibly a third or fourth color as a splash. The goal of this deck is to win by large creatures while destroying/countering your opponent's creatures/spells. Basically, stop your opponent from doing what they want to do, and do your thing instead. Sounds pretty good to me! This deck is also quite different than Teachings, Gifts, or Tempo Bant. It's more of a classic-style, straightforward control.
Decklists
UW control gets numerous consistent results in the MTGO daily events. Many splashes have been tried and have worked as well. A common splash is red, as it gives access to lightning bolt, lightning helix, and other good snapcaster mage targets. Here is an example of a successful UW list that I tweaked slightly:
Ah nice one Tomathan88! While a caw/mage blade style varient is certainly something to discus here as well MagicEd you have basically made a worse Merfolk or Fae deck. 12 creatures with vial is inadequate, and Im pretty sure squadron hawk is not really up to snuff in modern control decks.
After jumping back and forth playing with and without the Red splash im fairly sold on including Red. Path is actually horrible as your only early removal and there are a fair amount of tempo decks out there. Giving fast decks an early speed boost is way to dangerous and the red removal solves this while never being totally dead in other match ups. Cheap sweepers like Firespout and Pyroclasm are faster at killing swarms than Wrath. Depending on the Meta I may try a build using blue just for simple counters and Compulsive research. The Boros side is what does most heavy lifting vs creature decks of witch there are many.
In the straight U/W Sun Titan builds the extra tec edges are sometimes nice but often unnecessary and dont work with Path for mana denial. Sun Titan is usually just to slow, though many decks cant easily deal with him, Modern feels like a format where 6 drops on turn 6-8 aren't what you want to be doing. The format has good mana so its a fairly low cost to splash.
I have had a fair amount of success with the Sun Titan build. It plays like a tapout control deck, allowing you to play mental games with your opponent on whether you have counter magic or not.
The way I see it is that I don't really have a phenomenal match against anything, but I don't have any really bad ones either (with the exception of Tron - they go bigger than us).
I think this deck is a good choice because you are suited to deal with both aggro and combo in the MD. Storm is still a coin flip, but we have enough to interact with them that if you leave mana up, most good Storm players will play around your ****.
Celestial Colonnade and Sun Titan are the late game and recursion of dead stuff is out inevitability. Generally Finks recur against aggro decks and Jace/V. Clique are the champs against control/combo
Those are wonderful spells, but then we cut other stuff to make the other match ups worse. Bolts, Helices and Ajani may shore up on aggro match ups (Ajani helps in control too), but what do you cut?
Elspeth is amazing and Jace has synergy with Sun Titan and is the only way we stay ahead on cards until we ca land a Titan. Cutting Cryp[tic seems detrimental and Kitchen Finks is an all star.
I suppose that we could cut Clique and Splicer from my list, admittedly the weakest cards in the deck but that is only 4 slots when the cards you propose would take 10 at least. Cutting *** becomes the next logical stpe, but then we lose to Hexproof and Token Swarms...
I am still not sold. You mentioned good cards, and they may help with some problems but then new ones are introduced.
With the red u dont lose to walkers, delvers, affinity, burn and Stepe Lynx so bad. You dont need to play 10 red cards. -1 Sun Titan, Cliq, Beleren, snare -2 splicer -2 cryptic (clunky) +3 Blot +3 Helix +2 Ajani Probably want some snapcaster too then as he becomes amazing. What is the average CC of your deck like 3.5? There are just so many fast efficient decks those kind of top heavy decks seem dangerous. Red helps you lower your curve while protecting you early to get to your late game.
I might try it. I am just afraid to change these things sometimes because I don't want to start losing because I am trying to make unwinnable match ups better. Do you understand?
The configuration that I posted is working okay for me thus far. I have to admit with my lack of affinity matches at this point though.
Dont get me wrong straight UW is a strong deck and possibly beter against something like Jund. You have more stable Mana and tec edge, but I think bringing down the curve and including Snapy is generally ideal. You could always try Condemn or Dismember for more cheap removal. I also really like main deck spell pierce in straight UW.
Dont get me wrong straight UW is a strong deck and possibly beter against something like Jund. You have more stable Mana and tec edge, but I think bringing down the curve and including Snapy is generally ideal. You could always try Condemn or Dismember for more cheap removal. I also really like main deck spell pierce in straight UW.
Well, I have found that spell pierce is just clutch in this format anyway.
I am going to try your suggestions, but I just realized that my list is starting to resemble my 5cc list...without the Vivid lands and ****...
There is also a WUr Walker variant of this control deck. That is why I made the suggestion of what cards to use in the r splash. I wouldn't go with any less then 3 Cryptic Command. This card just does it all in one package.
Also, have you tried Phantasmal Image for your Sun Titan package?
you will see in the tournament result section of the OP that "bobjackson" used them in his original list, but took them out the second time around. i think that says something, but i'm not about to say that the image is crap.
The direction that deck is going is tuned to a meta on MTGO which I find doesn't always reflect the meta of paper. One day he was playing leyline of sanctity MD and the next Mindbreak Trap. Clearly he is trying to beat Storm, which is the big baddie of MTGO right now.
I'm not saying his card selection is wrong in any way, just that his day to day results/changes may not translate/preform the same under different conditions etc. There are a lot of good cards/builds for the archetype, all of which are going to require testing.
@tom-I ran up to 2 image MD at one point and he was just too cute...by the time we stick a Titan and start recurring Clique, Jace, or Finks we are pretty much at a point of inevitability and the second Titan becomes win more.
Strom was the baddie of MTGO, but lately There have been a ton of Jund and W/x token decks, which this deck kind of preys upon. We just beat Jund.
The Proc/token decks are interesting. We can beat them if we disrupt their initial plan, but you have to follow up the disruption immediately and beat down because they have Emeria/Mistveil Plains inevitability.
Stealing Andrew's deck here to test a theory of mine. I want to see whether or not centering your deck around graveyard recursion can allow you to turn Jace, Memory Adept's +1 from Draw one, Mill one to Draw two.
Has anyone tried a build with any of these? I've only play tested this a couple times and they've worked for me but I was wondering what everyone else thought. Geist of Saint Traft, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV or Windreaver
Traft is certainly great but beter as a SB card there are a lot of incidental blockers for him. Arbiter also feels like a board card and suffers fromt the same problem as reaver, just to many bolts being played. Planeswalkers are just beter for those mana costs. Would be great to see the OP updated with that Red Ajani Vengeant list from worlds. I basically ened up coming back to something close to it. Here is my curent list, its just shy of a couple more duals from tuned. Also trying the Finks in the Board, but probably beter main.
I can see all your points. I may still play test the arbiter mb for the time being. I would like to suggest that room could possibly be made for telling time. I feel like it could be really useful since we don't have much in the way of card drawing.
Yea I have been feeling like the deck needs a bit more draw. Im trying compulsive research out atm, Jace is just a bit to vulnerable and not so strong w/o sun titan. Not sure if I like telling time a ton over think twice the deck likes bulk draw, but selection is certainly handy. I almost want tidings or something, as you can usually stabilize early but a big gass boost mid game would help close it out.
Just smashed boros yet again the helix and Ajani do sooo much work! The deck plays a bit like big blue zoo or something.
I hadn't thought about Think twice but it's a great one as well. When I came up with my list (which was before i noticed this primer) telling time was the first draw spell I could think of. Then I noticed in my play testing on MWS that one of the cards could usually be sacrificed depending on the circumstance of course. Then again my original build run 3 Isochron Scepter to make the most of my rune snags and paths.
So did UW Tron just kill off this deck? Is it just not broken enough? Hadn't seen it in a while till finally it poped back up in some dailies with fracturing gust in the board. Maybe Affinity was to punishing? Perhaps its bad against pod and Splinter twin? Still looks good to me with all the Jund n such out there though.
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Updated 2/11/12
Special thanks to Chromatone for helping me provide the information for this primer! For his helpful thread and previous discussion, click here.
Overview
With a bunch of aggro and combo (such as storm) in the modern metagame, Uw(x) control fits in very nicely. It usually runs a good amount of blue, some amount of white, and possibly a third or fourth color as a splash. The goal of this deck is to win by large creatures while destroying/countering your opponent's creatures/spells. Basically, stop your opponent from doing what they want to do, and do your thing instead. Sounds pretty good to me! This deck is also quite different than Teachings, Gifts, or Tempo Bant. It's more of a classic-style, straightforward control.
Decklists
UW control gets numerous consistent results in the MTGO daily events. Many splashes have been tried and have worked as well. A common splash is red, as it gives access to lightning bolt, lightning helix, and other good snapcaster mage targets. Here is an example of a successful UW list that I tweaked slightly:
4x kitchen finks
4x wall of omens
3x vendilion clique
3x sun titan
4x cryptic command
4x mana leak
4x path to exile
3x oblivion ring
2x jace beleren
2x wrath of god
1x day of judgment
4x seachrome coast
3x mystic gate
3x glacial fortress
2x hallowed fountain
2x island
2x plains
1x misty rainforest
1x marsh flats
4x tectonic edge
4x nevermore
3x negate
2x condemn
2x surgical extraction
1x day of judgment
1x jace beleren
1x engineered explosives
1x karn liberated
Here is a list of the more recent Caw-Blade trend:
6x island
4x seachrome coast
3x scalding tarn
3x mutavault
3x hallowed fountain
2x moorland haunt
2x celestial colannade
1x arid mesa
1x plains
1x tectonic edge
4x snapcaster mage
4x squadron hawk
3x vendilion clique
4x cryptic command
4x path to exile
3x spell snare
2x gitaxian probe
2x vedalken shackles
1x steelshaper's gift
1x sword of feast and famine
1x batterskull
3x kitchen finks
3x disenchant
2x dispel
2x sunlance
2x wrath of god
1x timely reinforcements
1x relic of progenitus
1x linvala, keeper of silence
4x glacial fortress
4x seachrome coast
3x island
3x plains
2x arid mesa
2x misty rainforest
2x hallowed fountain
2x celestial colonnade
4x tectonic edge
4x kitchen finks
2x blade splicer
2x snapcaster mage
2x vendilion clique
2x sun titan
4x mana leak
4x path to exile
3x spell snare
2x oblivion ring
2x mindbreak trap
2x jace beleren
1x elspeth, knight-errant
3x relic of progenitus
3x rule of law
2x wrath of god
2x ratchet bomb
2x negate
2x divine offering
1x disenchant
4x celestial colonnade
4x glacial fortress
4x seachrome coast
3x island
2x mystic gate
2x scalding tarn
1x marsh flats
1x hallowed fountain
1x plains
4x tectonic edge
4x kitchen finks
3x vendilion clique
2x snapcaster mage
2x sun titan
1x wurmcoil engine
4x path to exile
3x cryptic command
3x leyline of sanctity
2x jace beleren
2x oblivion ring
2x wrath of god
1x compulsive research
1x negate
4x ethersworn canonist
2x geist of saint traft
2x negate
2x timely reinforcements
1x disenchant
1x jace beleren
1x surgical extraction
1x wrath of god
1x wurmcoil engine
4x glacial fortress
4x seachrome coast
3x island
3x plains
2x arid mesa
2x misty rainforest
2x hallowed fountain
2x celestial colonnade
4x tectonic edge
4x kitchen finks
2x blade splicer
2x vendilion clique
2x phantasmal image
2x snapcaster mage
2x sun titan
4x mana leak
4x path to exile
3x jace beleren
2x spell snare
2x threads of disloyalty
1x elspeth, knight-errant
3x relic of progenitus
2x wrath of god
2x rule of law
2x ratchet bomb
2x negate
2x divine offering
1x mindbreak trap
1x disenchant
Card Options
Coming soon, as I learn more about the archtype and see everyone's lists
Matchups
Coming soon, I would appreciate any feedback anyone has to give
After jumping back and forth playing with and without the Red splash im fairly sold on including Red. Path is actually horrible as your only early removal and there are a fair amount of tempo decks out there. Giving fast decks an early speed boost is way to dangerous and the red removal solves this while never being totally dead in other match ups. Cheap sweepers like Firespout and Pyroclasm are faster at killing swarms than Wrath. Depending on the Meta I may try a build using blue just for simple counters and Compulsive research. The Boros side is what does most heavy lifting vs creature decks of witch there are many.
In the straight U/W Sun Titan builds the extra tec edges are sometimes nice but often unnecessary and dont work with Path for mana denial. Sun Titan is usually just to slow, though many decks cant easily deal with him, Modern feels like a format where 6 drops on turn 6-8 aren't what you want to be doing. The format has good mana so its a fairly low cost to splash.
The way I see it is that I don't really have a phenomenal match against anything, but I don't have any really bad ones either (with the exception of Tron - they go bigger than us).
I think this deck is a good choice because you are suited to deal with both aggro and combo in the MD. Storm is still a coin flip, but we have enough to interact with them that if you leave mana up, most good Storm players will play around your ****.
Celestial Colonnade and Sun Titan are the late game and recursion of dead stuff is out inevitability. Generally Finks recur against aggro decks and Jace/V. Clique are the champs against control/combo
This is my list
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Mystic Gate
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Plains
5 Island
26 land
2 Blade Splicer
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Vendilion Clique
3 Sun Titan
12 Creatures
3 Jace Beleren
4 Mana Leak
3 Spell Snare
4 Path to Exile
2 Wrath of God
4 Cryptic Command
22 support
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Dismember
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Disenchant
1 Wrath of God
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Negate
We lose outright to opposing resolved planeswalkers and/or big mana and a plan. I see no real benefit to running red...
Lightning Helix
Ajani Vengeant
Lightning Bolt
All of which can deal with the walker problems you've run into. Just a lil' splash though.
Elspeth is amazing and Jace has synergy with Sun Titan and is the only way we stay ahead on cards until we ca land a Titan. Cutting Cryp[tic seems detrimental and Kitchen Finks is an all star.
I suppose that we could cut Clique and Splicer from my list, admittedly the weakest cards in the deck but that is only 4 slots when the cards you propose would take 10 at least. Cutting *** becomes the next logical stpe, but then we lose to Hexproof and Token Swarms...
I am still not sold. You mentioned good cards, and they may help with some problems but then new ones are introduced.
I might try it. I am just afraid to change these things sometimes because I don't want to start losing because I am trying to make unwinnable match ups better. Do you understand?
The configuration that I posted is working okay for me thus far. I have to admit with my lack of affinity matches at this point though.
Well, I have found that spell pierce is just clutch in this format anyway.
I am going to try your suggestions, but I just realized that my list is starting to resemble my 5cc list...without the Vivid lands and ****...
Also, have you tried Phantasmal Image for your Sun Titan package?
I'm not saying his card selection is wrong in any way, just that his day to day results/changes may not translate/preform the same under different conditions etc. There are a lot of good cards/builds for the archetype, all of which are going to require testing.
@tom-I ran up to 2 image MD at one point and he was just too cute...by the time we stick a Titan and start recurring Clique, Jace, or Finks we are pretty much at a point of inevitability and the second Titan becomes win more.
Strom was the baddie of MTGO, but lately There have been a ton of Jund and W/x token decks, which this deck kind of preys upon. We just beat Jund.
The Proc/token decks are interesting. We can beat them if we disrupt their initial plan, but you have to follow up the disruption immediately and beat down because they have Emeria/Mistveil Plains inevitability.
3 Plains
3 Island
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Mystic Gate
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Tectonic Edge
Creatures:
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Sun Titan
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Blade Splicer
2 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Jace Beleren
Instants:
4 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
3 Cryptic Command
3 Think Twice
Sorceries
1 Wrath of God
3 Negate
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Flashfreeze
2 Celestial Purge
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Wrath of God
1 Gideon Jura
Played some games. List updated!
Geist of Saint Traft, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV or Windreaver
3 Ajani Vengeant
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Compulsive Research
3 Cryptic Command
1 Day of Judgment
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Path to Exile
3 Spell Pierce
2 spell snare
2 Wrath of God
1 Cascade Bluffs
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Mystic Gate
3 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Day of Judgment
1 Firespout
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Pyroclasm
1 Path to Exile
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Trinket Mage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
Just smashed boros yet again the helix and Ajani do sooo much work! The deck plays a bit like big blue zoo or something.