Grixis Delver evolved from the original UR Delver as players tried to address the main weaknesses of the UR build, mainly the inability to kill fat creatures, and the lack of a way to pull ahead in grindy games, and as a result. These made UR Delver weak to most midrange and control decks in the format, which makes up a significant portion of the metagame. Original builds started with Dark Confidant, Inquisition, Thoughtseize, Terminate as ways to address the problem with grinds and fat creatures, but still had problems, as the deck used too much of its life as a resource without a real way to gain it back. Young Pyromancer gave us another threat, but Grixis Delver only really became viable with the printing of Tasigur, which gave us a big creature and gave us game against the other variants.
Pros
Most versatile and efficient answers
Able to grind out advantages in long games
Has the potential to be the most explosive variant due to 1 mana Tasigurs
Cons
No way to gain life to counteract damage from mana base
No answer to problematic enchantments beyond countering and discard
Increased weakness to graveyard hate
UR Delver: Without Treasure Cruise, UR Delver becomes a strict tempo deck, since to have a chance to win it needs to come out fast and strong so that it has enough burn to finish the opponent off before it runs out of gas. Even then, the deck has trouble drawing cards efficiently, and has no way to remove fat creatures such as Rhino and Goyf, both of which block very well and race faster than Delver. Until they print a good enough draw spell or more cards to support a tempo plan, UR delver is barely playable in the current meta.
Temur Delver: Essentially UR Delver, but with 4 Goyfs and Ancient Grudge with Nature's Claim in the sideboard. This version has more threats, but ultimately the tempo plan in Modern is still not effective enough for the deck to work. The deck works in Legacy because it has the ability to restrict the opponent's mana and use free counterspells. None of those are in Modern.
UWR Delver: UR Delver with much more efficient spells and resilient threats. The problem now is that Geist matches up quite poorly against all the big creatures. The removal of choice, path to exile doesn't really fit a tempo plan and can create headaches for you by ramping the opponent. The main draws to UWR is the lifegain that allows you to stabilise late into the game, as well as the ridiculous sideboard options that white provides, but though its sideboard is powerful, they only answer very specific matchups
The number of creatures in the deck should not exceed 15 if you want Delver to be consistent enough. Other than the mandatory 4 Delvers, the rest of the core are flexible, though you are highly recommended not to run less than 3 copies of any of them.
Delver of Secrets The namesake of the deck, and the reason why the deck is so explosive. No less than 4
Young Pyromancer One of the best threats in the deck, can take over the game quickly if unanswered. Getting a Pyro out with a few cantrips also helps stabilise your defense against opposing ground forces. Run 3 or 4.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang Our Goyf, except it draws cards and can cost 1 mana. But it's a Legendary, which is the only drawback. This is the card that made Grixis Delver competitive. Run 3
Snapcaster Mage Best blue card in Modern. The deck uses it's graveyard a lot, and this may not always have a lot of options available. Run 3-4
Lightning Bolt Best red card in the format, possibly the entire game. Run 4.
Serum Visions This is the best Modern has to offer in terms of card selection. Run 4.
Gitaxian Probe Gives you information and cantrips for just 2 life. Fills your yard, spawns elementals, lets you prioritize counters. Run 4
Thought Scour This is what gives your deck its explosiveness. It is however disappointing to draw more than 1, or late game. Run 2 - 4
Murderous Cut The main reason to play black. Kills a creature at instant speed for potentially 1 mana. Run 1-2
Terminate Backup removal if you don't have a yard, which is rare, but happens. Run 1-2
Electrolyze 3 mana instant speed 2/3 for 1. Gives extra reach too. There are only 3 cards in the core that give you reliable card advantage. Snapcaster, Tasigur, and this. It's never dead against any deck, and because of this it's part of the core. However, it is also usually one of the first cards to be substituted out. Run 1-3
I'm not including counterspells in the core since there are too many variations between decks. In fact the makeup of the counterspells is probably the single biggest difference between all the various build of Grixis Delver. However, the most common number to run is 7, with occasional variations to 6 or 8. The elaboration on these will be in the card choices section.
Vendilion Clique Excellent disruptive creature and decent clock. However, it is bad against a field of Lingering Souls. It's getting played less now simply because Tasigur makes a much bigger impact, but this can be sort of your 4th Tasigur. If you run this, make sure to pack ways to clear those pesky spirit tokens.
Grim Lavamancer This seems rather debated. On one hand, it is ridiculous against a field of burn, infect, abzan, twin and affinity. That's basically more than half the meta. It also clears up the yard for stronger Tasigur activation. However, getting it turn 1 may put a strain on your graveyard between the Tasigurs and Cuts. Any more than 1 needs to be supplemented with more Thought Scours
Gurmag Angler Eats opposing Tasigurs and Rhinos. Puts a much larger strain on your graveyard that Thought Scours alone may not sufficiently stock your graveyard for both Angler and Tasigur. You can play it as additional copies of Tasigur, but you will need to ensure your graveyard is easily stocked.
Olivia Voldaren Good top end that gives you some late game potential, however, it is very mana intensive and by the time its power comes online it may be very late in the game.
Monastery Swiftspear Makes your deck more aggressive, but increases commitment to red. The issue with this is that you normally want 4, but there is no space in the creature base for her if you still want Delver to be consistent. Honestly, would you replace YP, Tasigur or Snapcaster with her? The choice will boil down to Delver and Swiftspear, and that will be up to your preference.
Deprive Hard counter, but the drawback makes it worse in the early game, especially as a tempo deck. Unlike Mana Leak or Spell Pierce it's not a card you would be sad to see late game.
Mana Leak In direct competition with Deprive. Stronger in the early game, weaker in the late game. The choice between both would have to be a meta call. If you expect games to go long, play Deprive, and if you expect a lot of Aggro, Combo, Burn decks run Mana Leak.
Spell Snare Most efficient counterspell. Counters Goyf, Confidant, Ooze, RIP, Thalia, Daybreak Coronet, Ravager, Plating, Overseer, Remand, Leak, Helix, Eidolon, Skullcrack, Boros Charm, Golgari Charm, Pyroclasm. You don't want to overload on these though.
Spell Pierce Very high variance. Either very good, or ridiculously bad. Since we're playing Tasigur, I wouldn't play this since I wouldn't want to get it back with Tasigur. But some people like this, so it's up for consideration and debate.
Remand Best tempo counterspell, besides Memory Lapse which is not legal. It does cantrip, so even late game it's not so useless, but some people would rather get rid of a problem permanently than to hope to draw another answer. Even so, a Remand or 2 early in the game can put you very far ahead of the game.
Logic Knot Pretty good in that it scales with the game without disrupting tempo, but you use a lot of your graveyard too. If you want this, play more Thought Scours.
Cryptic Command Amazing, versatile card. In this deck casting it once when ahead puts the game out of reach; when behind, it buys you time to stabilize. 4 mana is not easy though, and if you run this 19 lands is recommended, and even then no more than 2. I will be testing 1 copy with a 18 land manabase to see how it works out too.
Thoughtseize / Inquisition of Kozilek / DuressThese are excellent for early disruption to ensure you can establish control of the game. However, if you want to play this, take note of a few factors:
1) These force you to commit to black very early in the game. You are either forced to grab an early swamp and risk not having enough red/blue mana, or you end up taking a lot of damage from your mana base.
2) These greatly decrease in value as the game grows longer and both players start to run out of cards.
3) The life loss from TS is not negligible; you have no way to gain back that life. Unlike Junk you do not have access to Siege Rhino and Thragtusk to stabilise
4) These are not good for tempo. You spend 1 mana to remove a card that they haven't devoted resources to.
5) Discard generally leads to top deck wars, and decks like Jund and Junk are heavily favored when it boils to this. We, are not.
That said, these are very powerful cards especially in conjunction with Snapcaster to form a nice curve of disruption. However, running these does require a slightly modified mana base.
Vapor Snag Very good against Infect, Affinity, and Twin. It is excellent for developing tempo in the early games, and removing a blocker in the late game. Can also save your own creatures.
Izzet Charm Great utility; all of it's modes are potentially useful. Only concern is that it's too slow in everything it does.
Boomerang It's at its best on the play, where you can bounce their first land, forcing them to discard or essentially time walking them. On the draw, weaker, but still a good catch-all answer to all your problems. Do note the heavy commitment to blue though.
Forked Bolt Sometimes you need to remove mana dorks early game. Helps you kill Glistener Elf and Thalia more effectively.
Sleight of Hand You may consider this if you play a few bullets and need to dig more to get access to them. Otherwise, Visions, Probes and Scours probably dig you deep enough.
Darkblast Can act as a hybrid between Electrolyze and Thought Scour, filling your yard while removing utility creatures. A beating against affinity and infect. More importantly, late game it helps you Tasigur beat up opposing Rhinos, Goyfs and Tasigurs. Solid inclusion, but generally not more than 1 of due to redundancy and mana
Slaughter Pact It's a good surpise for unsuspecting opponents, and it can take the place of Murderous Cut in the deck. The cost of using it is rather high though, requiring 3 mana, making it slower than cut at times
Dismember Being able to cast this at 1 mana makes a huge difference, but the life loss might cost you the game as it isn't light. However, you can chose to cast this for 3 mana if your life total is under pressure too. Fast enough in the right matchups, and powerful enough in all other matchups. A good replacement for Terminate in the maindeck.
This is a generally accepted mana base, not much explanation needed. 19 lands is also possible if you want more keepable hands. We try not to run too many shocks since we lack life gain options to make up for shock lands. This is pretty much the bare minimum for shocks. Sulfur Falls/ Darkslick shores will depend on individual build, but this should really be the UR fastland. The purpose is to give a dual land that can etb untapped without taxing your life, and as insurance against choke. There isn't much wriggle room other than the flex slot, since you don't want too many shocks, and you don't want too little basics. Now that KTK is out fetches should be much more available.
Your primary colour is blue, followed by red, and lastly black. Your mana base should reflect this.
There can be many variations to the mana base; I'm not saying this set of lands is perfect. This is just the mana base that the most successful lists have been running. This is simply a skeleton for the mana base, and what I suggest is building this mana base first, then editing it to suit your preference. Play with this set of 18, and if your deck requires more of a certain type of lands, make the necessary adjustments yourself. Ultimately your deck is your own, and there are many different variations with different requirements for mana, so you can make the necessary adjustments.
HOWEVER, one thing is certain about the mana base: the shocklands. This is the minimal you can run, and it should stay this way until WotC gives Grixis a reliable and playable life gain spell.
We run more more Islands since it's our primary colour. Having at least one of each basic means we can fetch that colour without paying an extra 2 life, which is very useful. If tweaks were to be made, the most replacable lands in this base would be:
The 3rd Island
The 2nd Steam Vents
The Sulfur Falls/Darkslick shores
Bloodstained Mire Possible as a budget alternative to Tarns, and also as a 19th land if you want 19 instead of 18. If you play 4 Deltas and 4 Mires, the main strategy would be to always use your fetches to get blue and red mana first. Only fetch for your black mana on the turn you need it. Essentially, if you have a swamp, grave or crypt in your hand, your fetches should only get you blue or red mana. If you don't, save one fetch for the swamp, and the rest should only get blue or red mana.
There are a few reasons for this:
1) All your fetches can get a basic swamp anyway
2) Black is a tertiary color, and you only have 6 cards that need black, and even so you don't need black too early on. 1 black mana is all you need the whole game
3) Surprise. People may put you on UR delver, only to have you blow them out with a Cut, Terminate or Tasigur
Graven Cairns, Sunken Ruins, Cascade Bluffs If you have a lot of colored mana requirements, this could be a consideration in the flex slot or 19th land, butnot being able to tap for colored mana turn 1 is a huge setback, especially since it makes your 1 land hands a lot less keepable.
River of Tears Unreliable, since you may not have a land in hand when you want to cast Tasigur that turn and this is your only black source. Too many hoops and decisions to make.
If you are considering a cycle of duals, the order of preference would be UR, UB, BR.
If you are considering between cycles, order would be Fastlands, Checklands, Filters
Blood Moon Blood Moon needs no introduction. This card can single-handedly steal wins. However, it can backfire as we do run three colors, so care needs to be taken to fetch your lands properly if you side it in.
Dragon's Claw Often the only source of life gain in the deck. As has been mentioned earlier, this deck takes a lot of punishment from the mana base, so this card is a necessity against burn.
Engineered Explosives Deals with lots of stuff, and is often the only enchantment removal available.
Slaughter Games Great to bring in against Scapeshift or any deck with a limited number of win conditions.
Rakdos Charm It hates on affinity. It hates on splinter twin. It hates on living end, dredge, goryo's vengeance, or any other graveyard shenanigans.
Spellskite Slows down burn, stops bogles and infect cold, stalls against affinity and twin. Super versatile sideboard staple.
Flashfreeze Hard counters are hard to come by, and flashfreeze hits two very relevant colors.
Countersquall Alternative to Negate, slightly harder to cast, making it worse against the combo matchups, but the life loss gives it more relevance n the control matchups
Dispel One mana counterspell. Sideboard versatility is one of our strengths, and I don't like such a narrow card when we have so many options. At most could be a 1 of.
Batterskull Almost unkillable beatstick, but mana intensive and slow.
Keranos, God of Storms The go-to card for most purposes. Hard to destroy, and gives you inevitability in the long game. Solid, tried-and-tested choice.
Jace, Architect of Thoughts I didn't like this card at first, but there's been so much positive feedback. Keeps you alive, draws cards etc. Worth trying.
Thundermaw Hellkite Ends the game fast, but doesn't help much if the game can drag, and your opponent is able to defend himself.
Sword of Light and Shadow Gains life for you to stabilize, and gives you a never ending stream of threats. Backbreaking against Abzan.
Outpost SiegePhyrexian Arena without the life loss and vulnerability to Abrupt Decay. Sure, it doesn't work well with counters, but thats about all. However, generally I feel Keranos and Jace seem better in this spot.
Haymakers are generally cards you bring in against the long matchups, and that tend to put you very far ahead. They either help you close out a game fast, or put you so far ahead in card advantage that you will pretty much win.
Additionally, Temur Delver arguable has the best life-gain option now that Feed the Clan has been printed.
And I think that land base is potentially not optimal, and certainly not if you aren't playing/expecting Blood Moon. You'll be better served just running more duals of some kind so that you can more consistently cast all your spells, especially as this deck regularly has to operate on 3 or less lands.
Additionally, Temur Delver arguable has the best life-gain option now that Feed the Clan has been printed.
And I think that land base is potentially not optimal, and certainly not if you aren't playing/expecting Blood Moon. You'll be better served just running more duals of some kind so that you can more consistently cast all your spells, especially as this deck regularly has to operate on 3 or less lands.
Agree about adding Swiftspear. I would personally consider Gix Probe as core, but maybe not Electrolyze. Probe enables almost every creature in the deck, as well as the low land count. Electrolyze is interchangeable with other spells depending on the meta.
Temur Delver certainly has better access to lifegain, but they still struggle with Burn anyway. Goyf is nice, but they don' have black removal, so it's a 50/50 flip in my opinion. Grixis is just more badass.
That's the accepted mana base that has been used in the most successful lists. Not sure what you'd change to make it better against Blood Moon while still being efficient for casting spells. Cutting an Island for another Shock is an option, but you can't cut any other basics without losing some percentages against both Moon and Burn decks. I think this mana base is basically ideal.
Has anyone considered using logic knot as our 5th or 6th counterspell alongside deprive? I cut down to 1 murderous cut and upped to 2 terminate to fit in logic knot.
A rug player in my meta uses Logic Knot. I wouldn't run it in this deck though because we have murderous cut. Logic is base 2 mana. Cut can be cast for 1. By cutting Cuts for terminates you're increasing the baseline amount of mana you will have to spend on interaction. Now everything but bolt and snare costs 2 mana or more.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When people call for a ban on treasure cruise: "But I don't WANNA draw 3 cards!"
Also I agree that the suggested mana base just doesn't feel right for players who are attempting to run blood moon in this deck. If you want moon I feel like you should maybe be running an extra fetch or two in exchange for a shock. The current base has a 50/50 chance of just not seeing fetchlands by the time it wants to moon. If your hand game 2 bs junk is a perfect blood moon plus 3 spells and 3 lands but those lands are watery grave, steam vents, shores.... well, that sucks.
If you go up to 19 land its also reasonable to have 1 spellland like tec edge or ghost quarter. I was running quarters to fight all the manlands in my meta when affinity, junk and imfect were very popular. I prefer ghost quarter because those decks (as well as tron) dont really need 4 lands to operate.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When people call for a ban on treasure cruise: "But I don't WANNA draw 3 cards!"
Great job on the primer! Its about time we had one! Here are some notes to get the sideboard discussion started:
Hate Cards Blood Moon - Blood Moon needs no introduction. This card can single-handedly steal wins. However, it can backfire as we do run three colors, so care needs to be taken to fetch your lands properly if you side it in. Dragon's Claw - Often the only source of life gain in the deck. As has been mentioned earlier, this deck takes a lot of punishment from the mana base, so this card is a necessity against burn. Shatterstorm/Vandalblast - Artifact sweepers are silver bullets against affinity. Engineered Explosives - Deals with lots of stuff, and is often the only enchantment removal available. Slaughter Games - Great to bring in against scapeshift or any deck with a limited number of win conditions. Rakdos Charm - It hates on affinity. It hates on splinter twin. It hates on living end, dredge, goryo's vengeance, or any other graveyard shenanigans.
Couterspells Flashfreeze - Hard counters are hard to come by, and flashfreeze hits two very relevant colors. Countersquall - I'm a big fan of this card. The damage is very often relevant, particularly in grindy matchups. Dispel Negate
Removal Darkblast - Recurring removal that makes Tasigur cheaper. Pretty strong card for us, and potentially worthy of a main deck spot. Combust - Great against splinter twin or american control to kill celestial colonnade, restoration angel, and baneslayer angel among others. Deathmark - One mana removal that is great against abzan. Unfortunately it is sorcery speed, but it is great in the early game before murderous cut gets turned on. Slaughter Pact - Strong removal card that can be played while you are tapped out, which is a nice feature in a deck that runs only 18-19 lands. Magma Spray/Pillar of Flame - Less important after the birthing pod ban, but still a great answer to Voice of Resurgence and Kitchen Finks
Still don't feel Electrolyze is core. Most of the time Forked Bolt is just as good, if not better because you can cast it much earlier along with other spells in the same turn.
The land base posted isn't optimal. If you're concerned about Blood Moon there is no reason to run basic mountain. But, I don't think Blood Moon should be a concern. Wasteland is omnipresent in Legacy but Delver decks still just run dual lands in order to cast their spells off of as few lands as possible.
If you care about Blood Moon I'd run something like this:
I've been testing a list with Deprive in it and have loved it so far. So, now I'm going to be testing a list that Richard Nguyen took to the SCG but I made a few tweaks. I've took out some artifact hate and added Sower of Temptation to help against Abzan match ups. Here's the list and sideboard.
I've been testing a list with Deprive in it and have loved it so far. So, now I'm going to be testing a list that Richard Nguyen took to the SCG but I made a few tweaks. I've took out some artifact hate and added Sower of Temptation to help against Abzan match ups. Here's the list and sideboard.
I tried deprives, and they've been so good i cut the remands entirely for deprives.
I feel that with the direction this deck is going, we're comfortable playing both as the aggro or control decks where necessary, but we are evolving more to a midrange deck now with hyper efficient threats.
Nice! Congrats on the finish!
Do you mind giving us a breakdown of all your matches and what your deck list would be going forward? Thanks!
Also, how affective was Delver of Secrets in your match ups? I find that if I don't land him in first few turns he's kinda of a dead card from that point on.
Seems like slowing down the deck is the way to go.
thoughts:
2 Cryptics probably the highest the deck can go in terms of four drops though, especially with 4 more four drops in the board. Even then, it may be right to just play 1.
Replacing the vandalblast in the board with rakdos charm gives you the same artifact removal with additional plays against graveyard decks and twin. I would consider taking out the extra deprive for the second EE, since you already have dispel in
How has slaughter games worked out?
Maindeck-wise if you were to replace the remands with deprives and the single deprive with the second cryptic, would that be better? especially with the deck slowing down like that
I'm very wary of the potential 2-4 life loss from dismember is that normally a concern, or does the 19th land mitigate that? Moreover,I'm also concerned because it makes us weaker to an already bad matchup(burn), and better in some already good matchups(twin, infect)
I would still stick to the 4 pyro 3 snap build though. personal preference.
Very nice job! It looks like you only played Blood Moon once and you lost that game. I know I probably sound like a broken record, but I think Moon is just a waste of sideboard space and promotes bad mana bases.
second that. UR delver can support blood moon, and even then blood moon is probably the only way for it to beat abzan
we are weaker to blood moon, and we have a lot of outs to abzan.
don't really need blood moon, much rather play jace.
good job mout! cryptic command seems good, but i don't feel that you really need more than 1; im buying the dismember though one mana seems to make all the difference.
on delver: I've played UR delver for ages, and this is the only build where i have yet to feel disappointed to draw delver mid-late game, since late game we are mostly both out of resources and fighting to close out the game, and a 3/2 flyer does that fast enough. At most, it buys you another draw step. If drawing a delver disappoints i don't think you would be winning that game anyway.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/631246-grixis-delver
Grixis Delver evolved from the original UR Delver as players tried to address the main weaknesses of the UR build, mainly the inability to kill fat creatures, and the lack of a way to pull ahead in grindy games, and as a result. These made UR Delver weak to most midrange and control decks in the format, which makes up a significant portion of the metagame. Original builds started with Dark Confidant, Inquisition, Thoughtseize, Terminate as ways to address the problem with grinds and fat creatures, but still had problems, as the deck used too much of its life as a resource without a real way to gain it back. Young Pyromancer gave us another threat, but Grixis Delver only really became viable with the printing of Tasigur, which gave us a big creature and gave us game against the other variants.
Pros
- Most versatile and efficient answers
- Able to grind out advantages in long games
- Has the potential to be the most explosive variant due to 1 mana Tasigurs
Cons
- No way to gain life to counteract damage from mana base
- No answer to problematic enchantments beyond countering and discard
- Increased weakness to graveyard hate
UR Delver: Without Treasure Cruise, UR Delver becomes a strict tempo deck, since to have a chance to win it needs to come out fast and strong so that it has enough burn to finish the opponent off before it runs out of gas. Even then, the deck has trouble drawing cards efficiently, and has no way to remove fat creatures such as Rhino and Goyf, both of which block very well and race faster than Delver. Until they print a good enough draw spell or more cards to support a tempo plan, UR delver is barely playable in the current meta.
Temur Delver: Essentially UR Delver, but with 4 Goyfs and Ancient Grudge with Nature's Claim in the sideboard. This version has more threats, but ultimately the tempo plan in Modern is still not effective enough for the deck to work. The deck works in Legacy because it has the ability to restrict the opponent's mana and use free counterspells. None of those are in Modern.
UWR Delver: UR Delver with much more efficient spells and resilient threats. The problem now is that Geist matches up quite poorly against all the big creatures. The removal of choice, path to exile doesn't really fit a tempo plan and can create headaches for you by ramping the opponent. The main draws to UWR is the lifegain that allows you to stabilise late into the game, as well as the ridiculous sideboard options that white provides, but though its sideboard is powerful, they only answer very specific matchups
The number of creatures in the deck should not exceed 15 if you want Delver to be consistent enough. Other than the mandatory 4 Delvers, the rest of the core are flexible, though you are highly recommended not to run less than 3 copies of any of them.
Delver of Secrets The namesake of the deck, and the reason why the deck is so explosive. No less than 4
Young Pyromancer One of the best threats in the deck, can take over the game quickly if unanswered. Getting a Pyro out with a few cantrips also helps stabilise your defense against opposing ground forces. Run 3 or 4.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang Our Goyf, except it draws cards and can cost 1 mana. But it's a Legendary, which is the only drawback. This is the card that made Grixis Delver competitive. Run 3
Snapcaster Mage Best blue card in Modern. The deck uses it's graveyard a lot, and this may not always have a lot of options available. Run 3-4
Lightning Bolt Best red card in the format, possibly the entire game. Run 4.
Serum Visions This is the best Modern has to offer in terms of card selection. Run 4.
Gitaxian Probe Gives you information and cantrips for just 2 life. Fills your yard, spawns elementals, lets you prioritize counters. Run 4
Thought Scour This is what gives your deck its explosiveness. It is however disappointing to draw more than 1, or late game. Run 2 - 4
Murderous Cut The main reason to play black. Kills a creature at instant speed for potentially 1 mana. Run 1-2
Terminate Backup removal if you don't have a yard, which is rare, but happens. Run 1-2
Electrolyze 3 mana instant speed 2/3 for 1. Gives extra reach too. There are only 3 cards in the core that give you reliable card advantage. Snapcaster, Tasigur, and this. It's never dead against any deck, and because of this it's part of the core. However, it is also usually one of the first cards to be substituted out. Run 1-3
I'm not including counterspells in the core since there are too many variations between decks. In fact the makeup of the counterspells is probably the single biggest difference between all the various build of Grixis Delver. However, the most common number to run is 7, with occasional variations to 6 or 8. The elaboration on these will be in the card choices section.
Vendilion Clique Excellent disruptive creature and decent clock. However, it is bad against a field of Lingering Souls. It's getting played less now simply because Tasigur makes a much bigger impact, but this can be sort of your 4th Tasigur. If you run this, make sure to pack ways to clear those pesky spirit tokens.
Grim Lavamancer This seems rather debated. On one hand, it is ridiculous against a field of burn, infect, abzan, twin and affinity. That's basically more than half the meta. It also clears up the yard for stronger Tasigur activation. However, getting it turn 1 may put a strain on your graveyard between the Tasigurs and Cuts. Any more than 1 needs to be supplemented with more Thought Scours
Gurmag Angler Eats opposing Tasigurs and Rhinos. Puts a much larger strain on your graveyard that Thought Scours alone may not sufficiently stock your graveyard for both Angler and Tasigur. You can play it as additional copies of Tasigur, but you will need to ensure your graveyard is easily stocked.
Olivia Voldaren Good top end that gives you some late game potential, however, it is very mana intensive and by the time its power comes online it may be very late in the game.
Monastery Swiftspear Makes your deck more aggressive, but increases commitment to red. The issue with this is that you normally want 4, but there is no space in the creature base for her if you still want Delver to be consistent. Honestly, would you replace YP, Tasigur or Snapcaster with her? The choice will boil down to Delver and Swiftspear, and that will be up to your preference.
Deprive Hard counter, but the drawback makes it worse in the early game, especially as a tempo deck. Unlike Mana Leak or Spell Pierce it's not a card you would be sad to see late game.
Mana Leak In direct competition with Deprive. Stronger in the early game, weaker in the late game. The choice between both would have to be a meta call. If you expect games to go long, play Deprive, and if you expect a lot of Aggro, Combo, Burn decks run Mana Leak.
Spell Snare Most efficient counterspell. Counters Goyf, Confidant, Ooze, RIP, Thalia, Daybreak Coronet, Ravager, Plating, Overseer, Remand, Leak, Helix, Eidolon, Skullcrack, Boros Charm, Golgari Charm, Pyroclasm. You don't want to overload on these though.
Spell Pierce Very high variance. Either very good, or ridiculously bad. Since we're playing Tasigur, I wouldn't play this since I wouldn't want to get it back with Tasigur. But some people like this, so it's up for consideration and debate.
Remand Best tempo counterspell, besides Memory Lapse which is not legal. It does cantrip, so even late game it's not so useless, but some people would rather get rid of a problem permanently than to hope to draw another answer. Even so, a Remand or 2 early in the game can put you very far ahead of the game.
Logic Knot Pretty good in that it scales with the game without disrupting tempo, but you use a lot of your graveyard too. If you want this, play more Thought Scours.
Cryptic Command Amazing, versatile card. In this deck casting it once when ahead puts the game out of reach; when behind, it buys you time to stabilize. 4 mana is not easy though, and if you run this 19 lands is recommended, and even then no more than 2. I will be testing 1 copy with a 18 land manabase to see how it works out too.
Thoughtseize / Inquisition of Kozilek / DuressThese are excellent for early disruption to ensure you can establish control of the game. However, if you want to play this, take note of a few factors:
1) These force you to commit to black very early in the game. You are either forced to grab an early swamp and risk not having enough red/blue mana, or you end up taking a lot of damage from your mana base.
2) These greatly decrease in value as the game grows longer and both players start to run out of cards.
3) The life loss from TS is not negligible; you have no way to gain back that life. Unlike Junk you do not have access to Siege Rhino and Thragtusk to stabilise
4) These are not good for tempo. You spend 1 mana to remove a card that they haven't devoted resources to.
5) Discard generally leads to top deck wars, and decks like Jund and Junk are heavily favored when it boils to this. We, are not.
That said, these are very powerful cards especially in conjunction with Snapcaster to form a nice curve of disruption. However, running these does require a slightly modified mana base.
Vapor Snag Very good against Infect, Affinity, and Twin. It is excellent for developing tempo in the early games, and removing a blocker in the late game. Can also save your own creatures.
Izzet Charm Great utility; all of it's modes are potentially useful. Only concern is that it's too slow in everything it does.
Boomerang It's at its best on the play, where you can bounce their first land, forcing them to discard or essentially time walking them. On the draw, weaker, but still a good catch-all answer to all your problems. Do note the heavy commitment to blue though.
Forked Bolt Sometimes you need to remove mana dorks early game. Helps you kill Glistener Elf and Thalia more effectively.
Sleight of Hand You may consider this if you play a few bullets and need to dig more to get access to them. Otherwise, Visions, Probes and Scours probably dig you deep enough.
Darkblast Can act as a hybrid between Electrolyze and Thought Scour, filling your yard while removing utility creatures. A beating against affinity and infect. More importantly, late game it helps you Tasigur beat up opposing Rhinos, Goyfs and Tasigurs. Solid inclusion, but generally not more than 1 of due to redundancy and mana
Slaughter Pact It's a good surpise for unsuspecting opponents, and it can take the place of Murderous Cut in the deck. The cost of using it is rather high though, requiring 3 mana, making it slower than cut at times
Dismember Being able to cast this at 1 mana makes a huge difference, but the life loss might cost you the game as it isn't light. However, you can chose to cast this for 3 mana if your life total is under pressure too. Fast enough in the right matchups, and powerful enough in all other matchups. A good replacement for Terminate in the maindeck.
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Sulfur Falls/Darkslick shores
This is a generally accepted mana base, not much explanation needed. 19 lands is also possible if you want more keepable hands. We try not to run too many shocks since we lack life gain options to make up for shock lands. This is pretty much the bare minimum for shocks. Sulfur Falls/ Darkslick shores will depend on individual build, but this should really be the UR fastland. The purpose is to give a dual land that can etb untapped without taxing your life, and as insurance against choke. There isn't much wriggle room other than the flex slot, since you don't want too many shocks, and you don't want too little basics. Now that KTK is out fetches should be much more available.
Your primary colour is blue, followed by red, and lastly black. Your mana base should reflect this.
There can be many variations to the mana base; I'm not saying this set of lands is perfect. This is just the mana base that the most successful lists have been running. This is simply a skeleton for the mana base, and what I suggest is building this mana base first, then editing it to suit your preference. Play with this set of 18, and if your deck requires more of a certain type of lands, make the necessary adjustments yourself. Ultimately your deck is your own, and there are many different variations with different requirements for mana, so you can make the necessary adjustments.
HOWEVER, one thing is certain about the mana base: the shocklands. This is the minimal you can run, and it should stay this way until WotC gives Grixis a reliable and playable life gain spell.
We run more more Islands since it's our primary colour. Having at least one of each basic means we can fetch that colour without paying an extra 2 life, which is very useful. If tweaks were to be made, the most replacable lands in this base would be:
The 3rd Island
The 2nd Steam Vents
The Sulfur Falls/Darkslick shores
Bloodstained Mire Possible as a budget alternative to Tarns, and also as a 19th land if you want 19 instead of 18. If you play 4 Deltas and 4 Mires, the main strategy would be to always use your fetches to get blue and red mana first. Only fetch for your black mana on the turn you need it. Essentially, if you have a swamp, grave or crypt in your hand, your fetches should only get you blue or red mana. If you don't, save one fetch for the swamp, and the rest should only get blue or red mana.
There are a few reasons for this:
1) All your fetches can get a basic swamp anyway
2) Black is a tertiary color, and you only have 6 cards that need black, and even so you don't need black too early on. 1 black mana is all you need the whole game
3) Surprise. People may put you on UR delver, only to have you blow them out with a Cut, Terminate or Tasigur
Graven Cairns, Sunken Ruins, Cascade Bluffs If you have a lot of colored mana requirements, this could be a consideration in the flex slot or 19th land, butnot being able to tap for colored mana turn 1 is a huge setback, especially since it makes your 1 land hands a lot less keepable.
River of Tears Unreliable, since you may not have a land in hand when you want to cast Tasigur that turn and this is your only black source. Too many hoops and decisions to make.
Blackcleave Cliffs, Darkslick Shores Both are playable in the flex slot, but Darkslick shores tap for U, so it is heavily preferred.
Sulfur Falls, Drowned Catacomb, Dragonskull Summit Decent fillers for the flex slot.
If you are considering a cycle of duals, the order of preference would be UR, UB, BR.
If you are considering between cycles, order would be Fastlands, Checklands, Filters
Blood Moon Blood Moon needs no introduction. This card can single-handedly steal wins. However, it can backfire as we do run three colors, so care needs to be taken to fetch your lands properly if you side it in.
Dragon's Claw Often the only source of life gain in the deck. As has been mentioned earlier, this deck takes a lot of punishment from the mana base, so this card is a necessity against burn.
Shatterstorm/Vandalblast Artifact sweepers are silver bullets against affinity.
Engineered Explosives Deals with lots of stuff, and is often the only enchantment removal available.
Slaughter Games Great to bring in against Scapeshift or any deck with a limited number of win conditions.
Rakdos Charm It hates on affinity. It hates on splinter twin. It hates on living end, dredge, goryo's vengeance, or any other graveyard shenanigans.
Spellskite Slows down burn, stops bogles and infect cold, stalls against affinity and twin. Super versatile sideboard staple.
Flashfreeze Hard counters are hard to come by, and flashfreeze hits two very relevant colors.
Countersquall Alternative to Negate, slightly harder to cast, making it worse against the combo matchups, but the life loss gives it more relevance n the control matchups
Dispel One mana counterspell. Sideboard versatility is one of our strengths, and I don't like such a narrow card when we have so many options. At most could be a 1 of.
Negate Versatile, cheap, effective.
Batterskull Almost unkillable beatstick, but mana intensive and slow.
Keranos, God of Storms The go-to card for most purposes. Hard to destroy, and gives you inevitability in the long game. Solid, tried-and-tested choice.
Jace, Architect of Thoughts I didn't like this card at first, but there's been so much positive feedback. Keeps you alive, draws cards etc. Worth trying.
Thundermaw Hellkite Ends the game fast, but doesn't help much if the game can drag, and your opponent is able to defend himself.
Sword of Light and Shadow Gains life for you to stabilize, and gives you a never ending stream of threats. Backbreaking against Abzan.
Outpost Siege Phyrexian Arena without the life loss and vulnerability to Abrupt Decay. Sure, it doesn't work well with counters, but thats about all. However, generally I feel Keranos and Jace seem better in this spot.
Haymakers are generally cards you bring in against the long matchups, and that tend to put you very far ahead. They either help you close out a game fast, or put you so far ahead in card advantage that you will pretty much win.
Izzet Staticaster Good against Lingering Souls and decks with a lot of X/1s, such as Soul Sisters, Affinity, etc.
Monastery Siege Under testing as an alternative to Dragon's Claw against burn. It slows them down, but they still have a lot of reach.
1 Flooded Strand
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Terminate
2 Murderous Cut
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
3 Mana Leak
3 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Blood Moon
1 Darkblast
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Flashfreeze
2 Shatterstorm
2 Slaughter Games
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Vandalblast
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
1 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
2 Murderous Cut
2 Remand
2 Spell Snare
1 Terminate
3 Thought Scour
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
3 Dragon's Claw
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Blood Moon
1 Dispel
2 Flashfreeze
2 Shatterstorm
3 Vandalblast
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
4 Deprive
1 Terminate
3 Murderous Cut
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Electrolyze
4 Thought Scour
1 Sulfur Falls
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
1 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Combust
1 Outpost Siege
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Threads of Disloyalty
1 Shatterstorm
1 Dispel
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Blood Moon
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Thoughtseize
My personal list:
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
3 Mana Leak
2 Deprive
2 Electrolyze
2 Spell Snare
2 Thought Scour
2 Murderous Cut
1 Terminate
1 Forked Bolt
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
2 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sulfur Falls
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/220040-grixis-delver
Additionally, Temur Delver arguable has the best life-gain option now that Feed the Clan has been printed.
And I think that land base is potentially not optimal, and certainly not if you aren't playing/expecting Blood Moon. You'll be better served just running more duals of some kind so that you can more consistently cast all your spells, especially as this deck regularly has to operate on 3 or less lands.
Agree about adding Swiftspear. I would personally consider Gix Probe as core, but maybe not Electrolyze. Probe enables almost every creature in the deck, as well as the low land count. Electrolyze is interchangeable with other spells depending on the meta.
Temur Delver certainly has better access to lifegain, but they still struggle with Burn anyway. Goyf is nice, but they don' have black removal, so it's a 50/50 flip in my opinion. Grixis is just more badass.
As for mana, If you're talking about this:
That's the accepted mana base that has been used in the most successful lists. Not sure what you'd change to make it better against Blood Moon while still being efficient for casting spells. Cutting an Island for another Shock is an option, but you can't cut any other basics without losing some percentages against both Moon and Burn decks. I think this mana base is basically ideal.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
On my tombstone, please write "Now his body fuels the Treasure Cruise"
Or you could Kommand him back...
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Modern:
BURGrixis DelverRUB
URUR DelverRU
URBlue MoonRU
RIPURUR TwinRURIP
Legacy:
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RUBGrixis PyromancerRUB
Commander:
URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
URBJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeRUB
If you go up to 19 land its also reasonable to have 1 spellland like tec edge or ghost quarter. I was running quarters to fight all the manlands in my meta when affinity, junk and imfect were very popular. I prefer ghost quarter because those decks (as well as tron) dont really need 4 lands to operate.
with regard to electrolyze, I feel it's core because it's one of the ways the deck has to gain card advantage.
probe is 100% core
Hate Cards
Blood Moon - Blood Moon needs no introduction. This card can single-handedly steal wins. However, it can backfire as we do run three colors, so care needs to be taken to fetch your lands properly if you side it in.
Dragon's Claw - Often the only source of life gain in the deck. As has been mentioned earlier, this deck takes a lot of punishment from the mana base, so this card is a necessity against burn.
Shatterstorm/Vandalblast - Artifact sweepers are silver bullets against affinity.
Engineered Explosives - Deals with lots of stuff, and is often the only enchantment removal available.
Slaughter Games - Great to bring in against scapeshift or any deck with a limited number of win conditions.
Rakdos Charm - It hates on affinity. It hates on splinter twin. It hates on living end, dredge, goryo's vengeance, or any other graveyard shenanigans.
Couterspells
Flashfreeze - Hard counters are hard to come by, and flashfreeze hits two very relevant colors.
Countersquall - I'm a big fan of this card. The damage is very often relevant, particularly in grindy matchups.
Dispel
Negate
Removal
Darkblast - Recurring removal that makes Tasigur cheaper. Pretty strong card for us, and potentially worthy of a main deck spot.
Combust - Great against splinter twin or american control to kill celestial colonnade, restoration angel, and baneslayer angel among others.
Deathmark - One mana removal that is great against abzan. Unfortunately it is sorcery speed, but it is great in the early game before murderous cut gets turned on.
Slaughter Pact - Strong removal card that can be played while you are tapped out, which is a nice feature in a deck that runs only 18-19 lands.
Magma Spray/Pillar of Flame - Less important after the birthing pod ban, but still a great answer to Voice of Resurgence and Kitchen Finks
Other Cards to Consider
Just wanted to share this as a starting point. I think I have hit on most cards that have made an appearance in recent memory. Thanks!
Keep on!
- L
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
The land base posted isn't optimal. If you're concerned about Blood Moon there is no reason to run basic mountain. But, I don't think Blood Moon should be a concern. Wasteland is omnipresent in Legacy but Delver decks still just run dual lands in order to cast their spells off of as few lands as possible.
If you care about Blood Moon I'd run something like this:
2 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
And if you don't care about Blood Moon, I'd run something like this:
1 Blood Crypt
2 Darkslick Shores
1 Drowned Catacomb
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Watery Grave
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Lands (18)
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sulfur Falls
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
3 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
2 Murderous Cut
2 Remand
1 Spell Snare
2 Terminate
3 Thought Scour
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
3 Monastery Siege
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Blood Moon
1 Dispel
2 Flashfreeze
2 Shatterstorm
1 Negate
2 Sower of Temptation
For Tasigur vs Gurmag, both have their merits. However, the longer the game goes the weaker our deck becomes in general. Tasigur helps mitigate that.
Essentially Tasigur is not just cheaper and more reliable to cast on turn 2, it shores up one of our weakest matchups and makes it less unfavourable.
I did, however, note that Gurmag Angler is definitely playable as additional copies of Tasigur. In fact, I think a 2-1 split deserves testing.
However, multiple gurmags are not really recommended since it is a lot harder to cast multiple gurmags in a row than tasigurs.
Added one paragraph to the mana section as well.
I tried deprives, and they've been so good i cut the remands entirely for deprives.
I feel that with the direction this deck is going, we're comfortable playing both as the aggro or control decks where necessary, but we are evolving more to a midrange deck now with hyper efficient threats.
Do you mind giving us a breakdown of all your matches and what your deck list would be going forward? Thanks!
Also, how affective was Delver of Secrets in your match ups? I find that if I don't land him in first few turns he's kinda of a dead card from that point on.
Seems like slowing down the deck is the way to go.
thoughts:
2 Cryptics probably the highest the deck can go in terms of four drops though, especially with 4 more four drops in the board. Even then, it may be right to just play 1.
Replacing the vandalblast in the board with rakdos charm gives you the same artifact removal with additional plays against graveyard decks and twin. I would consider taking out the extra deprive for the second EE, since you already have dispel in
How has slaughter games worked out?
Maindeck-wise if you were to replace the remands with deprives and the single deprive with the second cryptic, would that be better? especially with the deck slowing down like that
I'm very wary of the potential 2-4 life loss from dismember is that normally a concern, or does the 19th land mitigate that? Moreover,I'm also concerned because it makes us weaker to an already bad matchup(burn), and better in some already good matchups(twin, infect)
I would still stick to the 4 pyro 3 snap build though. personal preference.
we are weaker to blood moon, and we have a lot of outs to abzan.
don't really need blood moon, much rather play jace.
good job mout! cryptic command seems good, but i don't feel that you really need more than 1; im buying the dismember though one mana seems to make all the difference.
on delver: I've played UR delver for ages, and this is the only build where i have yet to feel disappointed to draw delver mid-late game, since late game we are mostly both out of resources and fighting to close out the game, and a 3/2 flyer does that fast enough. At most, it buys you another draw step. If drawing a delver disappoints i don't think you would be winning that game anyway.