Welcome, this is the primer to "the rock" aka "junk". Junk is generally the three colors white, black, and green. The strategy of junk is to disrupt your opponent (thoughtseize, inquisition of kozilek) while slamming on them with gigantic creatures priced at vary efficient costs. These include tarmogoyf, knight of the reliquary, and in some versions, doran, the siege tower. These unfairly low prices allows the deck to draw them faster with dark confidant, along with plenty of removal for your opponent's chump blockers. Then you turn these not-so-gentlemen sideways, and win; your opponent unable to do much about it.
Decklists
Here is a recent list of doran junk getting 3-1 on a MTGO daily. Keep in mind that although the list is still legal, the tournament was pre-bannings.
Here is a list that placed third on MTGO modern champs (9/11/11), and it runs no doran, the siege tower. This list is also legal, but was from the pre-banning era.
Aside from the cards in the lists above, here are other good options.
profane command - a card that shows up in many lists, as it has a lot of value. a removal spell that can kill your opponent sometimes. getting a creature back is also quite awesome, and giving your guys fear can sometimes kill your opponent when you don't have enough mana to just aim the command at their face.
primal command - similar to profane command, primal is simply a value card that is good in almost any situation. getting any creature you want is extremely useful, as is getting rid of some sort of annoying non-creature permanent. the 7 life is nothing to scoff at either.
eternal witness - one mana more for a 2/1 along with your regrowth? yes please! sometimes this guy feels weak; because he is, but the ability is amazing. getting back a removal spell can win the game, and getting back a creature is not to be underestimated either.
tree of redemption - i'd put him as a one-of in doran decks that run some sort of searching device. maybe more in the side. the tree is quite good vs. zoo, burn, etc. and it can be a 13/13 sometimes, which is pretty cool.
duress - pretty classic. IoK and 'seize are generally better, but if you meta uses a lot of spells, duress is always there.
crime // punishment - sweet pernicious deed effect. dark confidant can kinda make it awkward sometimes though. this is not legacy, we have shocks not duals. force of will might have been OK there, but it's super harsh here.
As this primer is new, all help is appreciated. This includes feedback on matchups, decklists, card options, etc. Just whatever you have to offer i will gladly listen too.
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Yeah, commands are great for this deck due to the versatility.
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Playing:
rock (G/) pod
9-2-1
Best Reminder text ever:
Warrior's Oath RRTake another turn after this one.
At the end of that turn, you lose the game.
(YOU DON'T LOSE IF YOU'VE ALREADY WON.) Check out my Lotuses
Formerly Jersam515.
Hey, Tom, I wonder if you might be interested in giving me a hand. I'm trying to build a deck around Life from the Loam and Zombie Infestation. The straight combo version wasn't working, so now I'm wondering if it can fit into a Rock shell. You're already using Loam with Raven's Crime, so I wonder how hard it would be to fit in the enchantment and a couple of enablers (such as Squee).
Hey, Tom, I wonder if you might be interested in giving me a hand. I'm trying to build a deck around Life from the Loam and Zombie Infestation. The straight combo version wasn't working, so now I'm wondering if it can fit into a Rock shell. You're already using Loam with Raven's Crime, so I wonder how hard it would be to fit in the enchantment and a couple of enablers (such as Squee).
ehh, i think that would belong in a different thread. this is meant to be straight rock. if you still want to help its cool, but if not it doesn't matter.
ehh, i think that would belong in a different thread. this is meant to be straight rock. if you still want to help its cool, but if not it doesn't matter.
Just to get the ball rolling on this discussion, I recall from a forum nearly 2 years ago i believe, someone was looking for a replacement for tarmogoyf for budget reasons of course and he chose to use ohran viper Would that be viable? or quirion dryad, i was thinking of making old school rock/junk with loxodon hierarch and/or iwamori of the open fist are cards like batterskull or the infamous swords appropriate here? Thoughts?
Just to get the ball rolling on this discussion, I recall from a forum nearly 2 years ago i believe, someone was looking for a replacement for tarmogoyf for budget reasons of course and he chose to use ohran viper Would that be viable? or quirion dryad, i was thinking of making old school rock/junk with loxodon hierarch and/or iwamori of the open fist are cards like batterskull or the infamous swords appropriate here? Thoughts?
Not sure that Doran is the ideal build for the deck. KotR is just plainly better. Elspeth is also something I would like in my deck if given the chance.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
The tutoring ability of Treefolk Harbinger is really good with some of the other cards available. You can set up your draws or make sure Bob doesn't burn you.
But for Harbinger to be really good Doran has to be there too.
Personal preference, I suppose. KotR is amaaaazing and maybe I'll put her in one day but for now I think Doran is really good.
The tutoring ability of Treefolk Harbinger is really good with some of the other cards available. You can set up your draws or make sure Bob doesn't burn you.
But for Harbinger to be really good Doran has to be there too.
Personal preference, I suppose. KotR is amaaaazing and maybe I'll put her in one day but for now I think Doran is really good.
Do you use Sejiri Steppe with her?
That and Bojuko Bog.
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In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
Not sure that Doran is the ideal build for the deck. KotR is just plainly better. Elspeth is also something I would like in my deck if given the chance.
This. KotR really is amazing. I'd also like to see Kitchen Finks in your build to offset Bob, Evanus. Four Harbringers and four Dorans seems like overkill, since Doran is legendary and tutorable.
I'm in that same no-Tarmogoyf boat and trying to build a Doran version. I was watching some Modern Doran videos on here earlier, and I noticed that Spellskite came in pretty handy, whereas Dark Confidant was almost always a dead card. I think maybe an even split of 3 Skites, 3 Skinshifters would work but haven't tested it yet.
the only problem i see with skinshifter is that it takes some green all the time, i may try to switch it out for 2-3 swords, (I bring 3 shifters atm) Maybe light and shadow to protect against most removal. And yeah, i play 2 skites. i think with 3, there will be those annoying occasions against zoo where it does nothing for you, but if im gona bring some swords maybe it will be ok to bring 3 of them.
Updated 10/16/11
Overview
Welcome, this is the primer to "the rock" aka "junk". Junk is generally the three colors white, black, and green. The strategy of junk is to disrupt your opponent (thoughtseize, inquisition of kozilek) while slamming on them with gigantic creatures priced at vary efficient costs. These include tarmogoyf, knight of the reliquary, and in some versions, doran, the siege tower. These unfairly low prices allows the deck to draw them faster with dark confidant, along with plenty of removal for your opponent's chump blockers. Then you turn these not-so-gentlemen sideways, and win; your opponent unable to do much about it.
Decklists
Here is a recent list of doran junk getting 3-1 on a MTGO daily. Keep in mind that although the list is still legal, the tournament was pre-bannings.
1x forest
1x plains
1x swamp
1x godless shrine
1x overgrown tomb
1x temple garden
1x stirring wildwood
1x urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1x murmuring bosk
1x horizon canopy
4x marsh flats
4x misty rainforest
4x verdant catacombs
4x doran, the siege tower
4x knight of the reliquary
4x tarmogoyf
4x treefolk harbinger
4x thoughtseize
4x inquisition of kozilek
4x path to exile
4x smother
2x maelstrom pulse
2x aven mindcensor
2x rule of law
2x qasali pridemage
2x ethersworn canonist
2x deathmark
2x kataki, war's wage
2x silence
1x bojuka bog
Here is a list that placed third on MTGO modern champs (9/11/11), and it runs no doran, the siege tower. This list is also legal, but was from the pre-banning era.
4x verdant catacombs
3x marsh flats
3x overgrown tomb
2x godless shrine
2x temple garden
2x swamp
2x plains
1x sejeri steppe
1x treetop village
1x forest
1x horizon canopy
4x knight of the reliquary
4x tarmogoyf
3x tidehollow sculler
3x ethersworn canonist
3x kitchen finks
4x inquisition of kozilek
3x thoughtseize
3x path to exile
2x go for the throat
2x slaughter pact
2x elspeth, knight errant
3x burrenton forge-tender
1x ethersworn canonist
2x gideon jura
1x kitchen finks
3x seal of primordium
2x smother
2x sudden death
1x thoughtseize
Card Options
(Work in Progress!)
Aside from the cards in the lists above, here are other good options.
profane command - a card that shows up in many lists, as it has a lot of value. a removal spell that can kill your opponent sometimes. getting a creature back is also quite awesome, and giving your guys fear can sometimes kill your opponent when you don't have enough mana to just aim the command at their face.
primal command - similar to profane command, primal is simply a value card that is good in almost any situation. getting any creature you want is extremely useful, as is getting rid of some sort of annoying non-creature permanent. the 7 life is nothing to scoff at either.
eternal witness - one mana more for a 2/1 along with your regrowth? yes please! sometimes this guy feels weak; because he is, but the ability is amazing. getting back a removal spell can win the game, and getting back a creature is not to be underestimated either.
tree of redemption - i'd put him as a one-of in doran decks that run some sort of searching device. maybe more in the side. the tree is quite good vs. zoo, burn, etc. and it can be a 13/13 sometimes, which is pretty cool.
duress - pretty classic. IoK and 'seize are generally better, but if you meta uses a lot of spells, duress is always there.
crime // punishment - sweet pernicious deed effect. dark confidant can kinda make it awkward sometimes though. this is not legacy, we have shocks not duals. force of will might have been OK there, but it's super harsh here.
Matchups
Coming Soon!
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As this primer is new, all help is appreciated. This includes feedback on matchups, decklists, card options, etc. Just whatever you have to offer i will gladly listen too.
Primal Command sees play as well.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
rock (G/) pod
9-2-1
Best Reminder text ever:
Warrior's Oath
RRTake another turn after this one.
At the end of that turn, you lose the game.
(YOU DON'T LOSE IF YOU'VE ALREADY WON.)
Check out my Lotuses
Formerly Jersam515.
ehh, i think that would belong in a different thread. this is meant to be straight rock. if you still want to help its cool, but if not it doesn't matter.
Of course, of course. I was just asking here.
Skinshifter seems to be the guy for the job.
4 Dark Confidant
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tidehollow Sculler
Spells (15):
1 Behemoth Sledge
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Path to Exile
2 Smother
2 Thoughtseize
1 Arena
3 Forest
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Sejiri Steppe
2 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Crime/Punishment
2 Duress
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Smother
1 Thoughtseize
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
But for Harbinger to be really good Doran has to be there too.
Personal preference, I suppose. KotR is amaaaazing and maybe I'll put her in one day but for now I think Doran is really good.
Do you use Sejiri Steppe with her?
That and Bojuko Bog.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
This. KotR really is amazing. I'd also like to see Kitchen Finks in your build to offset Bob, Evanus. Four Harbringers and four Dorans seems like overkill, since Doran is legendary and tutorable.
Skinshifter is the nuts. Most of the cards in this deck are 1-2 cmc so the upkeep should not be problematic. He's good with swords too.