I'm thinking T4 Gifts into Unburial + Griselbrand, or some other beater. Nothing new but I know that combo was much more fragil when Deathrite was in every deck. What about now?
I know there are other types of 'yard disruption but shouldn't I be able to work around most of that? Esper Charm kills enchants, and I can sideboard in artifact destruction for the rest. Or just straight up counter them?
This isn't really an SCD, but Gifts is more competitive with DRS out of the scene. There are other Griselbrand Reanimation decks out there though that don't include Gifts. Some of them are even capable of winning on turn 1.
When I was testing UW Tron after the ban, I played against Zoo a lot. Almost every game, if I Gifts + Rites-ed a creature, it would promptly get Pathed.
The combo is definitely playable, the question is just what type of deck could use it. I think 4C Gifts and UW Tron aren't good enough in the current meta. Perhaps Gifts+Rites would start appearing in UWR Delver sideboards again (if UWR Delver is even a thing).
When I was testing UW Tron after the ban, I played against Zoo a lot. Almost every game, if I Gifts + Rites-ed a creature, it would promptly get Pathed.
The combo is definitely playable, the question is just what type of deck could use it. I think 4C Gifts and UW Tron aren't good enough in the current meta. Perhaps Gifts+Rites would start appearing in UWR Delver sideboards again (if UWR Delver is even a thing).
I'm still hoping for WUR Delver to come back. It just seems really good in this meta. I think that it would also be good in WUR Midrange and I have tested it successfully in Faeries.
I think there is a place for something like BUG gifts. Picture a nasty BG control shell with a Gifts package tossed in.
I think it'd work better dropping the Green and going full Esper Gift-Rites.
I mean you could get Rites working all by just splashing a small bit of W so you can flashback Rites but I'm not the biggest fan of 4c decks.
What in esper is worth giving up Abrupt Decay, Goyf and Pulse?
A better manabase (ignore the part where BUG has two on-color fetches, I'm talking about 3 colors and an implied splash vs 3 colors), the ability to kill manlands (admittedly at the cost of not being able to blow up other kinds of permanents) and invalidating Goyfs with bigger things cheated off of Gifts-Rites?
I mean, would you rather splash W just to make Rites work? I doubt you were going to use Gifts Ungiven fairly and grab semi-redundant magic off of it since there's only so much overlap with GB killmagic and everything else...
EDIT:
ALSO YOU GET TO PATH THINGS AND BOARDWIPE STUFF AND CAST ESPER CHARM YEAH. OPPRESSION!
I think there is a place for something like BUG gifts. Picture a nasty BG control shell with a Gifts package tossed in.
I think it'd work better dropping the Green and going full Esper Gift-Rites.
I mean you could get Rites working all by just splashing a small bit of W so you can flashback Rites but I'm not the biggest fan of 4c decks.
What in esper is worth giving up Abrupt Decay, Goyf and Pulse?
I tried making an Esper Gifts deck that used large amounts of counterspells and some sweepers to control the game. It won using Gifts/Rites or Bitterblossom. In the end, I decided removing most of the sweepers, putting the Gifts/Rites combo in the sideboard, and making the deck an Esper Fae deck would be better.
I'm not so sure about the "4C Gifts never went anywhere." bit. In two months it has placed in eleven Modern events. That's more than Bogles, for a quick comparison.
I'm not so sure about the "4C Gifts never went anywhere." bit. In two months it has placed in eleven Modern events. That's more than Bogles, for a quick comparison.
I think that he meant that the deck is still here and that this discussion should be happening in that thread.
I'm not so sure about the "4C Gifts never went anywhere." bit. In two months it has placed in eleven Modern events. That's more than Bogles, for a quick comparison.
I think that he meant that the deck is still here and that this discussion should be happening in that thread.
That's how I interpreted it as well, deck always turns up, usually blended right in or hidden just below the top placing lists. It seems to show well for how few people are playing it.
What about just jamming the rites + gifts package into the existing goryo's vengeance deck? Seems like it could give the deck the consistency of turn 5 Rites along side the explosiveness of turn 2-4 vengeance.
The problem is always finding the right card to reanimate. You almost always just go for Iona and name their removal colour. Turns out most decks don't play two different colours of removal that can both deal with her.
I ultimately think it's a bad idea for decks to sideboard into it. You're dedicating a minimum of 6 slots for something that's otherwise not interacting with your main plan. For example, when Delver does it, they're changing their deck strategy from tempo'd aggression to a combo finisher. You board 6 cards in just to bank on one interaction.
Also, I still think Iona and Elesh Norn are the two best cards, but Sundering Titan against Zoo seems really good. I've seen what Blood Moon does to them, so Sundering Titan seems pretty sweet.
The problem is always finding the right card to reanimate. You almost always just go for Iona and name their removal colour. Turns out most decks don't play two different colours of removal that can both deal with her.
I ultimately think it's a bad idea for decks to sideboard into it. You're dedicating a minimum of 6 slots for something that's otherwise not interacting with your main plan. For example, when Delver does it, they're changing their deck strategy from tempo'd aggression to a combo finisher. You board 6 cards in just to bank on one interaction.
Also, I still think Iona and Elesh Norn are the two best cards, but Sundering Titan against Zoo seems really good. I've seen what Blood Moon does to them, so Sundering Titan seems pretty sweet.
With the removal heavy meta, I've had and seen others have some success with Grave Titan and Sphinx of the Steel Wind as well, two other potential options depending upon your meta/matchups. Sun Titan can also do some really wonky things such as recur a Liliana every turn or recur other stuff every turn like tec edge/ghost quarter/eternal witness/snapcaster mage/fulminator mage, the list goes on.
*Edit: the advantage of Sun Titan and Grave Titan also being that they can be hard-cast quite regularly in many gifts lists.
I'm not sure. I think it's pretty good, and I've seen people play it. Though, Iona and Elesh tends to do the job just as well if not better. At that point, we're clogged for slots and have a hard time justifying running more fatties. It sucks to open/draw into them.
The problem is always finding the right card to reanimate. You almost always just go for Iona and name their removal colour. Turns out most decks don't play two different colours of removal that can both deal with her.
I ultimately think it's a bad idea for decks to sideboard into it. You're dedicating a minimum of 6 slots for something that's otherwise not interacting with your main plan. For example, when Delver does it, they're changing their deck strategy from tempo'd aggression to a combo finisher. You board 6 cards in just to bank on one interaction.
Also, I still think Iona and Elesh Norn are the two best cards, but Sundering Titan against Zoo seems really good. I've seen what Blood Moon does to them, so Sundering Titan seems pretty sweet.
With the removal heavy meta, I've had and seen others have some success with Grave Titan and Sphinx of the Steel Wind as well, two other potential options depending upon your meta/matchups. Sun Titan can also do some really wonky things such as recur a Liliana every turn or recur other stuff every turn like tec edge/ghost quarter/eternal witness/snapcaster mage/fulminator mage, the list goes on.
*Edit: the advantage of Sun Titan and Grave Titan also being that they can be hard-cast quite regularly in many gifts lists.
I definitely do like Sun Titan a lot. Am contemplating playing one in Gifts. It makes the Dredge portion of Life from the Loam even more enticing, as most things that hit the yard are no longer, "forever lost" like it would be otherwise.
That said, Sun Titan becomes reliant on the grave, and now that DRS is gone, it's *possible* that people would add grave-hate to their sides to replace it -- bigger grave hate like, Rest in Peace, Relic. Idk how big of an issue this would be though, or if I'm just over worrying.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I know there are other types of 'yard disruption but shouldn't I be able to work around most of that? Esper Charm kills enchants, and I can sideboard in artifact destruction for the rest. Or just straight up counter them?
FREE BLOODBRAID ELF
The combo is definitely playable, the question is just what type of deck could use it. I think 4C Gifts and UW Tron aren't good enough in the current meta. Perhaps Gifts+Rites would start appearing in UWR Delver sideboards again (if UWR Delver is even a thing).
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
I'm still hoping for WUR Delver to come back. It just seems really good in this meta. I think that it would also be good in WUR Midrange and I have tested it successfully in Faeries.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I think it'd work better dropping the Green and going full Esper Gift-Rites.
I mean you could get Rites working all by just splashing a small bit of W so you can flashback Rites but I'm not the biggest fan of 4c decks.
What in esper is worth giving up Abrupt Decay, Goyf and Pulse?
A better manabase (ignore the part where BUG has two on-color fetches, I'm talking about 3 colors and an implied splash vs 3 colors), the ability to kill manlands (admittedly at the cost of not being able to blow up other kinds of permanents) and invalidating Goyfs with bigger things cheated off of Gifts-Rites?
I mean, would you rather splash W just to make Rites work? I doubt you were going to use Gifts Ungiven fairly and grab semi-redundant magic off of it since there's only so much overlap with GB killmagic and everything else...
EDIT:
ALSO YOU GET TO PATH THINGS AND BOARDWIPE STUFF AND CAST ESPER CHARM YEAH. OPPRESSION!
I tried making an Esper Gifts deck that used large amounts of counterspells and some sweepers to control the game. It won using Gifts/Rites or Bitterblossom. In the end, I decided removing most of the sweepers, putting the Gifts/Rites combo in the sideboard, and making the deck an Esper Fae deck would be better.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
This, if anything the deck is better now. A good discussion going on right now int he 4C gifts primer under established, including some discussion on the different color combos and even going down to 3 color: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/220010-4c-gifts?page=47
I think that he meant that the deck is still here and that this discussion should be happening in that thread.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
That's how I interpreted it as well, deck always turns up, usually blended right in or hidden just below the top placing lists. It seems to show well for how few people are playing it.
I ultimately think it's a bad idea for decks to sideboard into it. You're dedicating a minimum of 6 slots for something that's otherwise not interacting with your main plan. For example, when Delver does it, they're changing their deck strategy from tempo'd aggression to a combo finisher. You board 6 cards in just to bank on one interaction.
Also, I still think Iona and Elesh Norn are the two best cards, but Sundering Titan against Zoo seems really good. I've seen what Blood Moon does to them, so Sundering Titan seems pretty sweet.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
With the removal heavy meta, I've had and seen others have some success with Grave Titan and Sphinx of the Steel Wind as well, two other potential options depending upon your meta/matchups. Sun Titan can also do some really wonky things such as recur a Liliana every turn or recur other stuff every turn like tec edge/ghost quarter/eternal witness/snapcaster mage/fulminator mage, the list goes on.
*Edit: the advantage of Sun Titan and Grave Titan also being that they can be hard-cast quite regularly in many gifts lists.
I'm not sure. I think it's pretty good, and I've seen people play it. Though, Iona and Elesh tends to do the job just as well if not better. At that point, we're clogged for slots and have a hard time justifying running more fatties. It sucks to open/draw into them.
I definitely do like Sun Titan a lot. Am contemplating playing one in Gifts. It makes the Dredge portion of Life from the Loam even more enticing, as most things that hit the yard are no longer, "forever lost" like it would be otherwise.
That said, Sun Titan becomes reliant on the grave, and now that DRS is gone, it's *possible* that people would add grave-hate to their sides to replace it -- bigger grave hate like, Rest in Peace, Relic. Idk how big of an issue this would be though, or if I'm just over worrying.
Absolutely not. Gifts beats control decks by grabbing tec edge, ghost quarter, loam & raven's crime.