(i am playin Gideon in T2 & Modern. in T2 hes a 1 man-army. Hes really extreme. In Modern hes often better, than Elspeth 1)
+1 causes big & fast pressure. Its even better than Gideon Juras 6/6 beating, since its 1 mana cheaper, is indestructible & raises Loyality.
When you can afford to animate him, he will do the job very quickly & adds loyality in the process. Gideon 1 problem with this was that he was chump-blocked all day. This Gideon has the same problem & therefore just switches to the Token-plan in case. in my experience this ability is sometimes even better than Elspeths jump. When you play Gideon, you likely make a Token, then attack by himself if its convenient. this means that 2 seperate creatures can attack next turn for 7. Elspeth requires other creatures & jumps probably one at a time & then you need something else to block with. You see ? 2 attackers VS 1 evaisve one. Gideon doesnt require anything for a big & SAFE attack & you have one more blocker ready to pretect. i dont wanna argue now what is more powerful, cuz Elspeths Jump is as unique as it is powerful & the reason why shes the 2nd best Planeswalker.
0 That one is a great addition, complements well with his other 2 abilities & protects you or himself. Garruk Relentless & Xenagos, the Reveler had this one too & because of that, they were so great in their times & therefore you should be aware how good such an ability is. Though they were stuck at 3 dangerous loyality when they tried to crowd the board. Gideons higher & safe Loyality is another good reason to bring this into Modern. This ability might be to strong in Ally-Decks though. If you manage to to keep 2 Tokens from it, 4 Power in 2 bodies are already worth 4 Mana.
-4 Its Glorious Anthem[/card] Yea i agree it is underwhelming at first sight & id genuinely wish for somethin else. But unlike other Ultimates, which rarely go off & where you have to repeat the + Ability couple turns, in order to reach it, this one is available right away & lets his first abilities & your Deck benefit from it. This is what i love on good Gideon-cards. they really have 3 abilites.
The fact that he synergizes with himself like Elspeth does, makes me think he will be established in Modern. The inherent High Loyality, that doesnt dimminish & can rise is already similiar to Elspeth. The combination of the first 2 abilites are such a huge beating. i dont know any other 4 Mana Planeswalker, that can present so much & quick Damage all by itself.
Hey yo, i hope the timing is appropriate to post this now, since last time this post was deleted from a Moderator.
There is a sticky post with the subforum rules. Maybe, and this is just a thought, it would be a good idea to read the forum rules before posting in it? I know, it's a strange thing to consider, but many before you have done so, and hopefully many more to come.
As far as Gideon goes, he's pretty much just bad. Elspeth is better than Gideon ANY time you have another relevant threat on the table, not to mention that if you tap out for Gideon you're quite easily just dead to any of the unfair decks, unlike jace and Gideon jura. In particular, if you have ANY 3 power threat already on the table, Elspeth knight errant has the same clock as Gideon, while the evasion is quite relevant in a creature-centric format.
High starting loyalty or inherent synergy isn't enough to make a walker see play in modern--I beat a turn four narset, enlightened master, a turn four Elspeth, knight errant, a turn three ashiok, and a turn three Koth tonight in various matches, playing ESPER DRAW-GO. I also beat a turn four ugin. Incidentally, I only had one round against a non-fair deck--sometimes my meta acts weird and people just all decide to play fair brews on the same night. Anyway, the point is that the majority of decks in modern are FAR more efficient at beating down a planeswalker than esper draw-go, and yet I was still able to beat a large variety of early-game walkers out of various decks. Zoo? nice time walk you just tapped out for. Jund? same thing--or maybe not, if they also got to further shred your hand of other possibly relevant spells.
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Primary Decks:
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Legacy: RUG Lands
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I'm a fan of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. He puts such immense pressure on opponents, especially ones who fight fair. Opponents who swing into him while he's defending may get sucker punched when he animates himself and swings. Burn can shorten his already short clock by an entire turn (yes, even UWR Control's defensive burn suite). His tokens are zillions of times better at defending than Elspeth 1.0's tokens are because his 2/2 + Bolt can kill an X/5, while Elspeth needs 2 1/1 tokens + Bolt to do the same.
With that being said, I'm not sure how he often cannot put enough pressure on RG Tron, even in decks whose sole purpose is to put on pressure (e.g. Medium Naya Zoo). It often seems like he's only good against RG Tron when he doesn't get removed.
LOL. Forum rules are like video game manuals: nobody reads them. Well, not unless they're asked for the Xth word on line Y of the Zth page or some other bull***** like that. (You need to be at least 30 to understand this reference, so don't worry if you didn't get it. )
I believe your post doesn't get deleted if you post it in the wrong place. The mods will just merge it with the proper thread.
Now with regards to Gideon, he's the kind of card that you play in your SB and bring in against decks that aren't going to kill you on turn 4. Some examples of similar cards (i.e. 4+ CMC permanents that generate CA over and over) are Keranos/Jace in Twin, or Outpost Siege in Jund. These cards tend not to see maindeck play. Even for SB play, I don't fancy his chances due to the double white cost and the dearth of decks that play white as a main color.
In an Allies deck, he competes with Collected Company at the same mana cost. Roughly speaking, the question is "do you want two Allies at instant speed now, or one Ally every turn at sorcery speed?" Keep in mind that the two Allies that you get from Company will likely be a bit bigger than 2/2. Also, if you get 2 Allies now (remember, you can just slam Company at sorcery speed if you want, especially if your deck has Akoum Battlesinger), they will trigger your other Allies that are currently out twice, which translates to more damage in combat at an earlier time.
With that being said, I'm not sure how he often cannot put enough pressure on RG Tron, even in decks whose sole purpose is to put on pressure (e.g. Medium Naya Zoo). It often seems like he's only good against RG Tron when he doesn't get removed.
Gideon is garbage vs. Tron. He comes down on turn 4 at the earliest. At that point in the game, he gets exiled by Karn, walled by Wurmcoil and they gain six, and his tokens get blown up by Ugin or Pyroclasm.
Against Jund, on the other hand, the outlook is more favorable.
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Gideon is fortunately not limited to anything, but why not run both ? Company & Gideon.
2 reasons:
1) You can't flip Gideon off Company. Keep in mind you're probably playing 4 Paths already. Every card you add that can't be flipped off CC reduces your consistency.
2) Too many 4-drops. I mean, the T8 Elves deck from GP Oklahoma City had 4 CC and 3 Sylvan Messenger, but then it also had 16 creatures that tap for mana.
I think Gideon is ok but in most decks I would want him I'm going to be in BW and I would rather have Sorin LoI or Sorin Solemn Visitor in them depending on the goal of the deck.
Making 2/2 bodies for 0 is really strong but the rest of him feels subpar to me. Elspeth and Sorin both tick up while creating board presence and that's a really big deal if you're trying to go long and Sorin SV has a much better pump if you're trying to end things quickly, particularly when backed by Intangible Virtue.
Also, I'm always wary of making my PW into a creature in Modern because Path to Exile is a thing.
With that being said, I'm not sure how he often cannot put enough pressure on RG Tron, even in decks whose sole purpose is to put on pressure (e.g. Medium Naya Zoo). It often seems like he's only good against RG Tron when he doesn't get removed.
Gideon is garbage vs. Tron. He comes down on turn 4 at the earliest. At that point in the game, he gets exiled by Karn, walled by Wurmcoil and they gain six, and his tokens get blown up by Ugin or Pyroclasm.
Against Jund, on the other hand, the outlook is more favorable.
Unless it cheats in combo creatures (and/or maybe evasive creatures), Collected Company looks like it performs almost as poorly as Gideon Ally against Tron. It also comes down on Turn 4 unless you play mana dorks, the best body it cheats out gets exiled by Karn and brick walled by Wurmcoil, and both bodies get blown up by Ugin (although often not Pyroclasm).
CoCo can get you something that is useful against Tron, whereas Gideon can't. That's the whole point.
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Why are we discussing whether Gideon is good against Tron? Most 4-drops (and a lot of 3-drops) aren't. Stuff like Kitchen Finks, Lingering Souls, Batterskull, Thrun, Keranos are not supposed to be good against Tron, they're supposed to break the Midrange/Good stuff mirrors. Though of all the before mentioned cards, Gideon doesn't seem terrible. A 5/5 for 4 is what you can expect from a creature in that range when it comes to putting on pressure. It goldfishes before Rhino does.
I am going to try gideon as a 1 of in my b/w lists when the price drops a little. The anthem doesn't seem terrible, and given the right time the animation of himself could come in handy. I don't think he's really an auto include in anything in modern just yet but he isn't terrible. Just a matter of what deck and the meta that surrounds it.
Don't underestimate the difference between a 1/1 token and a 2/2 token. If you land Gideon, activate his 0, and then he gets killed, it's a 2-for-1 since a 2/2 with vigilance is actually worth a card. Compare to Elspeth, who makes 1/1s that aren't really threats, and Sorin, Solemn Visitor, who has to minus to get a similar token.
Elsepth is NOT better than gideon in any way lol. Gideo has 3 relevant abilities, has a faster clock, and can take control of the game by himself. Sure he's bad against tron, but against most decks he can take over the game with 2/2s and the anthem. The 2nd turn he is out you can swing for 7 points of dmg. How is that not better than elspeth??? Oh and btw he's a 5/5 indestructible that is only weak to path and can trade favorably with every non tron creature in the format.
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Elspeth is better than Gideon unless you're playing control or allies. In any other decks, especially those that play more creatures Elspeth is better choice.
I'd say that Elspeth is worse in BW Tokens than Gideon Ally is. Tokens wants Gideon's bigger tokens and doesn't exactly appreciate Elspeth's pump (too many of BW Tokens's tokens fly, and now they'll lure PtE and get chumped by other fliers).
Even midrange wants Gideon Ally more. In Geist of Saint Win, I have a tough time sticking any creature other than Geist of Saint Traft, so Elspeth has few targets to pump. One of Gideon's tokens plus Bolt can take out an X/5, while Elspeth needs 2 tokens and Bolt to do the same.
Elspeth is better than Gideon unless you're playing control or allies. In any other decks, especially those that play more creatures Elspeth is better choice.
And you list no reasons why Elspeth is better lol. Elspeth is alot worse because her tokens are smaller, she only has 2 relevant abilities, and her 2nd ability is only relevant with another creature on the field. Gideon has 3 relevant abilities, attacks for 7 the next turn, is indestructible when he attacks, has 2/2 tokens, gives a permanent anthem affect when he ETB if you want to ult him. There is no way that Elspeth is better. Heck Elspeth isn't even viable right now.
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I like both, but if your comparing Gideon 2 and Elspeth 1 that really depends on the deck. I have to admit making 2/2's for 0 is pretty insane value. You figure if he was played, let's say in a deck with Lingering Souls, making 2/2 bodies and a mass permanent pump effect that cam't be removed is stellar value. Plus, as already mentioned, dropping him on turn (in theory) and making a 2/2 to protect himself is great. If they don't deal with the token, he beats back for 7 total. Yes, he can be pathed but your not a bad player, and won't fall for that nonsense. In the case of Path, ok fine, I'll just keep making bodies for 0 and let you deal with that :). I think he would really shine in Esper Control where he and lingering souls would be a beating. Oh and for what its worth the 2/2 he makes for 0 is great versus Liliana of the Veil edict as defense, plus Gideon is curved perfectly to come down the turn after Liliana, and make a body to block a goyf. He also can't be abrupt decayed, bolted (as a creature) or terminated and he can counter swing into Liliana and kill her. I'd say new Gideon is a beast.
Elspeth is better than Gideon unless you're playing control or allies. In any other decks, especially those that play more creatures Elspeth is better choice.
And you list no reasons why Elspeth is better lol. Elspeth is alot worse because her tokens are smaller, she only has 2 relevant abilities, and her 2nd ability is only relevant with another creature on the field. Gideon has 3 relevant abilities, attacks for 7 the next turn, is indestructible when he attacks, has 2/2 tokens, gives a permanent anthem affect when he ETB if you want to ult him. There is no way that Elspeth is better. Heck Elspeth isn't even viable right now.
Gideon's first ability is pretty irrelevant for Tokens. Second ability is good but boost some token is better than just putting 2/2 token into play although it't also not seomething Tokens want. Elspeth has better last ability also although +1/+1 boost to all tokens is decent thing but for ultimate ability it is fairly weak. In general 3+/+3 is better for creature based decks (pumping some creature-for example Knight or Goyf and giving it evasion is better than 5/5 indestructible creatures as it will mallow you to kill you opponent faster which is what aggro and other creature vbased decks wants) as well as ultimate ability is which means Elspeth is better than Gideon in decks that play creatures and Gideon is only better in heavy control shell. And even when token generating ability of Gideon is better than Elspeth's one Elspeth pumps herself while doing this when Gideon doesn't. That said Elspeth is better planeswalker at least in my eyes.
I didn't realize that turning into a 5/5 indestructible was "irelievant" lol. Elspeth's second ability is only good if you are playing her in a midrange deck with creatures like Knight and Tarmogoyf, but you simply aren't because there are way better options so your argument is invalid there. You shouldn't evaluate Elsepth for her ultimate because in 90 percent of the games that you cast her, you aren't getting to it where as Gideon you can ult right away. Not to mention you have to wait 3 turns after you cast Elsepth to use her ability if she didn't get hurt where you can ult Gideon the turn he comes out. Giving +1/1 is relevant because YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO DO SO ANYTIME YOU CAST GIDEON. Gideon present you with 3 very powerful options while Elsepth presents you with one very powerful option and is not even viable in modern right now.
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From my Playtests in Modern, im very impressed so far. What distinguishes Gideon from similiar Planeswalkers like Elspeth or Sorin, is how much potential Damage he can present all on his own. None of the other Planeswalkers are able to pack so much pressure on their own. Just imagine how much damage you could cause by switching between his first 2 abilities This makes him a universal Planeswalker, unlike a bad designed Planeswalker like Sorin 3. whose +1 is too stong & -2 too weak. Gideon fits in everywhere.
He combines elements of both worlds, but is not the best of them like Elspeths Pump Jump, or Sorins Lifelink.
But at any time, he can deliver from from what you expect a 4 Mana Creature-based Planeswalker can do.
Most important is the Token-aspect. this protects &/or provides constant threads. Bein able for no cost to call 2/2´s is a very powerful Token-engine, like 2 other Planeswalkers have proven. Just imagine how much power you get to the board after 2 - 3 acvivations already for no cost. This one is already better than Elspeth & 1000x better than Sorin 3.
When Gideon doesnt need Protection, or in case the Tokens are still too small, he serves you as a big, quick, indestructible 5/5 Beater & loads up loality. The combination of these 2 abilities makes Gideon a quick Beating-machine like no other 4 Mana-Planeswalker is all on its own. You can calculate yourself how much damage-output this is in a few turns.
Ultimate unfortunately is quite boring & unimpressive. But this just even more flexibility on a card. Ultimates are usually game-winning or at least game-chaning. But as a matter of fact, they are unrealistic to reach in most games. Like it wouldnt exist on the card. Theyre BIG & nice to look at mostly. Aside from creature-production & creature-animation, Gideon also provides creature-pump. Everything here is covered for Creature-based Decks & all 3 abilities are available. Not just 2.
This is what makes the card.
Elspeths Tokens are mostly Chump-blockerz & no real clock. But the Pump-Jump, synergy of both abilities & ever-risin loyality is what makes her card.
i dont know why i mention Sorin. Hes not even Elite, but only good for one ability. -2 is probably the worst Token-generation on a Planeswalker & therefore only good in 1 Deck.
I expect Gideon to be on Elspeth-Level. Even if both do different things.
Thats a good point. ill never understand why Keranos is played though. the other ones are legit.
What i like best bout Gidein is that hes literally a 1 card-army. He doesnt need you & shows it to you ! Even very well. His option to protect himself, can quickly turn things around & hit back very hard. Thats a serious contribution towards a decent board-precence. Especially good if Ultimate is used after many 0 acviations. If you dont need defense, you just bash for 5 with your 4 mana-card & raise loyality too. Thats a clock that probably no other 4 mana Planeswalker can present. Beware of 1 mana-removal. path, vapor snag, dismember
The combination of these 2 abilites are the main-reason you want this card i believe. just imagine how much damage-output it is.
-4 even works with his first 2 abilities. & can give creature-masses an advantage for the rest of da game.
I run Gideon alongside Elspeth in my white Modern-Dex. Elspeth´s Pump Jump is still inevitable, but Gideon has proven to be better in establishing a decent board & is much better in putting pressure on opponents.
Elspeth is soo good, cuz her card synergizes with herself & she can switch between defense & offense without payin loyality. Just like Gideon d;)
These are the cards that Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is competing with. I think New Gideon outclasses Elspeth as a four drop planeswalker completely, which is insane to say, as Elspeth is very good. Both Sorins are neck and neck with each other, with the edge going to Solemn Visitor for the lifelink, and I think they are both about even with New Gideon. The Sorins do more for the team you already have, but Gideon does better on an empty board. Jura is th old control stand by, but I think New Gideon beats the old by coming down a turn earlier and making creatures. I am very impressed by new Gideon, and think he will make a splash in Modern somewhere.
i dont think Gideon, Ally of Zendikar competes with Gideon Jura, since they serve you in a different way. Gideon 4 is great as an aggresive & defensive option, whereas Gideon is more control. i hate Sorin, Solemn Visitor, since hes very lazy design. Just switch Sorin, Lord of Innistrads 2 abilities & done. The +1 turned out to be overpowered & the -2 of course underpowered. Complete fail in my eyes. Id prefer Sorin 2 any day of the week, also for boycott-reasons. I would say that Gideon stronger, than Sorin 2. & Sorin 2 is stronger than Sorin 3, if you view them as standa-alone cards. Sorin 3 is god-awful in this case, therefore fits only in 1 strategy. flying Tokens. whereas good designed Planeswalkers like Elspeth 1 & 3, Sorin 2 & Gideon 4 can fit in any Decks with matching colors, cuz they are not reliant on other cards & are even much stronger with other cards. i also wouldnt say Gideon 4 outclasses Elspeth 1. Yea, hes more oprresive as 1 on 1, but Pump-jump is still deadly for most Dex. Id recommend tryna play both.
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Lets go ! Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
(i am playin Gideon in T2 & Modern. in T2 hes a 1 man-army. Hes really extreme. In Modern hes often better, than Elspeth 1)
+1 causes big & fast pressure. Its even better than Gideon Juras 6/6 beating, since its 1 mana cheaper, is indestructible & raises Loyality.
When you can afford to animate him, he will do the job very quickly & adds loyality in the process. Gideon 1 problem with this was that he was chump-blocked all day. This Gideon has the same problem & therefore just switches to the Token-plan in case. in my experience this ability is sometimes even better than Elspeths jump. When you play Gideon, you likely make a Token, then attack by himself if its convenient. this means that 2 seperate creatures can attack next turn for 7. Elspeth requires other creatures & jumps probably one at a time & then you need something else to block with. You see ? 2 attackers VS 1 evaisve one. Gideon doesnt require anything for a big & SAFE attack & you have one more blocker ready to pretect. i dont wanna argue now what is more powerful, cuz Elspeths Jump is as unique as it is powerful & the reason why shes the 2nd best Planeswalker.
0 That one is a great addition, complements well with his other 2 abilities & protects you or himself. Garruk Relentless & Xenagos, the Reveler had this one too & because of that, they were so great in their times & therefore you should be aware how good such an ability is. Though they were stuck at 3 dangerous loyality when they tried to crowd the board. Gideons higher & safe Loyality is another good reason to bring this into Modern. This ability might be to strong in Ally-Decks though. If you manage to to keep 2 Tokens from it, 4 Power in 2 bodies are already worth 4 Mana.
-4 Its Glorious Anthem[/card] Yea i agree it is underwhelming at first sight & id genuinely wish for somethin else. But unlike other Ultimates, which rarely go off & where you have to repeat the + Ability couple turns, in order to reach it, this one is available right away & lets his first abilities & your Deck benefit from it. This is what i love on good Gideon-cards. they really have 3 abilites.
The fact that he synergizes with himself like Elspeth does, makes me think he will be established in Modern. The inherent High Loyality, that doesnt dimminish & can rise is already similiar to Elspeth. The combination of the first 2 abilites are such a huge beating. i dont know any other 4 Mana Planeswalker, that can present so much & quick Damage all by itself.
There is a sticky post with the subforum rules. Maybe, and this is just a thought, it would be a good idea to read the forum rules before posting in it? I know, it's a strange thing to consider, but many before you have done so, and hopefully many more to come.
As far as Gideon goes, he's pretty much just bad. Elspeth is better than Gideon ANY time you have another relevant threat on the table, not to mention that if you tap out for Gideon you're quite easily just dead to any of the unfair decks, unlike jace and Gideon jura. In particular, if you have ANY 3 power threat already on the table, Elspeth knight errant has the same clock as Gideon, while the evasion is quite relevant in a creature-centric format.
High starting loyalty or inherent synergy isn't enough to make a walker see play in modern--I beat a turn four narset, enlightened master, a turn four Elspeth, knight errant, a turn three ashiok, and a turn three Koth tonight in various matches, playing ESPER DRAW-GO. I also beat a turn four ugin. Incidentally, I only had one round against a non-fair deck--sometimes my meta acts weird and people just all decide to play fair brews on the same night. Anyway, the point is that the majority of decks in modern are FAR more efficient at beating down a planeswalker than esper draw-go, and yet I was still able to beat a large variety of early-game walkers out of various decks. Zoo? nice time walk you just tapped out for. Jund? same thing--or maybe not, if they also got to further shred your hand of other possibly relevant spells.
Yes, I am a local area mod.WELP. GOOD LIFE CHANGES ALL HAPPEN AT ONCE AND SOME ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVEPrimary Decks:
Modern: Esper Draw-Go
Legacy: RUG Lands
EDH: Sidisi turn-3 storm
With that being said, I'm not sure how he often cannot put enough pressure on RG Tron, even in decks whose sole purpose is to put on pressure (e.g. Medium Naya Zoo). It often seems like he's only good against RG Tron when he doesn't get removed.
I believe your post doesn't get deleted if you post it in the wrong place. The mods will just merge it with the proper thread.
Now with regards to Gideon, he's the kind of card that you play in your SB and bring in against decks that aren't going to kill you on turn 4. Some examples of similar cards (i.e. 4+ CMC permanents that generate CA over and over) are Keranos/Jace in Twin, or Outpost Siege in Jund. These cards tend not to see maindeck play. Even for SB play, I don't fancy his chances due to the double white cost and the dearth of decks that play white as a main color.
In an Allies deck, he competes with Collected Company at the same mana cost. Roughly speaking, the question is "do you want two Allies at instant speed now, or one Ally every turn at sorcery speed?" Keep in mind that the two Allies that you get from Company will likely be a bit bigger than 2/2. Also, if you get 2 Allies now (remember, you can just slam Company at sorcery speed if you want, especially if your deck has Akoum Battlesinger), they will trigger your other Allies that are currently out twice, which translates to more damage in combat at an earlier time.
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Gideon is garbage vs. Tron. He comes down on turn 4 at the earliest. At that point in the game, he gets exiled by Karn, walled by Wurmcoil and they gain six, and his tokens get blown up by Ugin or Pyroclasm.
Against Jund, on the other hand, the outlook is more favorable.
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1) You can't flip Gideon off Company. Keep in mind you're probably playing 4 Paths already. Every card you add that can't be flipped off CC reduces your consistency.
2) Too many 4-drops. I mean, the T8 Elves deck from GP Oklahoma City had 4 CC and 3 Sylvan Messenger, but then it also had 16 creatures that tap for mana.
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Big Johnny.
Making 2/2 bodies for 0 is really strong but the rest of him feels subpar to me. Elspeth and Sorin both tick up while creating board presence and that's a really big deal if you're trying to go long and Sorin SV has a much better pump if you're trying to end things quickly, particularly when backed by Intangible Virtue.
Also, I'm always wary of making my PW into a creature in Modern because Path to Exile is a thing.
Unless it cheats in combo creatures (and/or maybe evasive creatures), Collected Company looks like it performs almost as poorly as Gideon Ally against Tron. It also comes down on Turn 4 unless you play mana dorks, the best body it cheats out gets exiled by Karn and brick walled by Wurmcoil, and both bodies get blown up by Ugin (although often not Pyroclasm).
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Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I'd say that Elspeth is worse in BW Tokens than Gideon Ally is. Tokens wants Gideon's bigger tokens and doesn't exactly appreciate Elspeth's pump (too many of BW Tokens's tokens fly, and now they'll lure PtE and get chumped by other fliers).
Even midrange wants Gideon Ally more. In Geist of Saint Win, I have a tough time sticking any creature other than Geist of Saint Traft, so Elspeth has few targets to pump. One of Gideon's tokens plus Bolt can take out an X/5, while Elspeth needs 2 tokens and Bolt to do the same.
And you list no reasons why Elspeth is better lol. Elspeth is alot worse because her tokens are smaller, she only has 2 relevant abilities, and her 2nd ability is only relevant with another creature on the field. Gideon has 3 relevant abilities, attacks for 7 the next turn, is indestructible when he attacks, has 2/2 tokens, gives a permanent anthem affect when he ETB if you want to ult him. There is no way that Elspeth is better. Heck Elspeth isn't even viable right now.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
I didn't realize that turning into a 5/5 indestructible was "irelievant" lol. Elspeth's second ability is only good if you are playing her in a midrange deck with creatures like Knight and Tarmogoyf, but you simply aren't because there are way better options so your argument is invalid there. You shouldn't evaluate Elsepth for her ultimate because in 90 percent of the games that you cast her, you aren't getting to it where as Gideon you can ult right away. Not to mention you have to wait 3 turns after you cast Elsepth to use her ability if she didn't get hurt where you can ult Gideon the turn he comes out. Giving +1/1 is relevant because YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO DO SO ANYTIME YOU CAST GIDEON. Gideon present you with 3 very powerful options while Elsepth presents you with one very powerful option and is not even viable in modern right now.
Decks I'm playing in Modern right now:
URB Grixis Reveler (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-grixis-reveler/)
UB Faeries (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/ub-fae-2/)
UW Azorious Control (http://www.mtgvault.com/supast4r7/decks/modern-ojutai-control-2/)
He combines elements of both worlds, but is not the best of them like Elspeths Pump Jump, or Sorins Lifelink.
But at any time, he can deliver from from what you expect a 4 Mana Creature-based Planeswalker can do.
Most important is the Token-aspect. this protects &/or provides constant threads. Bein able for no cost to call 2/2´s is a very powerful Token-engine, like 2 other Planeswalkers have proven. Just imagine how much power you get to the board after 2 - 3 acvivations already for no cost. This one is already better than Elspeth & 1000x better than Sorin 3.
When Gideon doesnt need Protection, or in case the Tokens are still too small, he serves you as a big, quick, indestructible 5/5 Beater & loads up loality. The combination of these 2 abilities makes Gideon a quick Beating-machine like no other 4 Mana-Planeswalker is all on its own. You can calculate yourself how much damage-output this is in a few turns.
Ultimate unfortunately is quite boring & unimpressive. But this just even more flexibility on a card. Ultimates are usually game-winning or at least game-chaning. But as a matter of fact, they are unrealistic to reach in most games. Like it wouldnt exist on the card. Theyre BIG & nice to look at mostly. Aside from creature-production & creature-animation, Gideon also provides creature-pump. Everything here is covered for Creature-based Decks & all 3 abilities are available. Not just 2.
This is what makes the card.
Elspeths Tokens are mostly Chump-blockerz & no real clock. But the Pump-Jump, synergy of both abilities & ever-risin loyality is what makes her card.
i dont know why i mention Sorin. Hes not even Elite, but only good for one ability. -2 is probably the worst Token-generation on a Planeswalker & therefore only good in 1 Deck.
I expect Gideon to be on Elspeth-Level. Even if both do different things.
What i like best bout Gidein is that hes literally a 1 card-army. He doesnt need you & shows it to you ! Even very well. His option to protect himself, can quickly turn things around & hit back very hard. Thats a serious contribution towards a decent board-precence. Especially good if Ultimate is used after many 0 acviations. If you dont need defense, you just bash for 5 with your 4 mana-card & raise loyality too. Thats a clock that probably no other 4 mana Planeswalker can present. Beware of 1 mana-removal. path, vapor snag, dismember
The combination of these 2 abilites are the main-reason you want this card i believe. just imagine how much damage-output it is.
-4 even works with his first 2 abilities. & can give creature-masses an advantage for the rest of da game.
I run Gideon alongside Elspeth in my white Modern-Dex. Elspeth´s Pump Jump is still inevitable, but Gideon has proven to be better in establishing a decent board & is much better in putting pressure on opponents.
Elspeth is soo good, cuz her card synergizes with herself & she can switch between defense & offense without payin loyality. Just like Gideon d;)
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Gideon Jura
These are the cards that Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is competing with. I think New Gideon outclasses Elspeth as a four drop planeswalker completely, which is insane to say, as Elspeth is very good. Both Sorins are neck and neck with each other, with the edge going to Solemn Visitor for the lifelink, and I think they are both about even with New Gideon. The Sorins do more for the team you already have, but Gideon does better on an empty board. Jura is th old control stand by, but I think New Gideon beats the old by coming down a turn earlier and making creatures. I am very impressed by new Gideon, and think he will make a splash in Modern somewhere.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
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