I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
harrow-unless you are going for landfall or possibly playing a 3 or 5 color deck, its not good enough
nomads' assembly-I'm not sold on it being worth it (6 mana for how many 1/1 tokens? If you have 5 or more creatures in play, sure its worth the cost, but why would you want a bunch more 1/1 tokens for 6 mana and 1 card at that moment? I'd want a utility spell at that moment. And if you need to make tokens? Well then its a bad token producer)
loxodon hierarch-this is a tough one, as there is a better card for this ability (dauntless escort), so it depends on 2 things: do you want 2 cards in the deck to increase the odds of having this ability; and if your creatures were to be killed, would you be able to regenerate them most of the time (wrath of god vs day of judgment)
skullmulcher-understand the drawbacks with this card: it does not have flash, so you have to decide when you feel that the creatures are less important to you for killing someone with an overrun/stampede/kamahl than drawing cards. Honestly, I think there are good enough/better draws out there in green and colorless.
rhys the redeemed-this is another tough one because I know a lot of people like this card. To me, its too slow. No reliable haste in G/W, so it takes a while to get out 1 token...and it costs 3 mana!!! Really, you should only be using her for her second ability to interact with your other tokens you got from some other ability, and even then, do you really need that? I've tried her out before, and typically the board would get wrath'd by me or someone else just as or before I got to a respectable token count
Mycoloth-this one should be an easier devour cut than the other one. why? well because this ones benefits don't come instantly unlike skullmulcher. So whats a good amount of creatures to devour? 3-4? So on your turn, you devour 4 tokens lets say. Next turn you get those 4 tokens back, but they cant attack....but your other ones could have! Next turn you get another 4 and finally the first 4 can attack, but not the second 4. So here you are 2 turns later and you finally got the initial 4 1/1 tokens able and willing to attack that you could have had earlier. Not worth it. If you have tokens, you should be buffing em up and swinging with em...not saccing to hopefully get more down the road.
emeria angel-I dont like cards that just get me about 1 per turn....if im lucky
vengeful archon-doesn't feel like it sits right with the rest of the deck...no synergy here
iona, shield of emeria-tough card to cast; in a token deck, unless you are playing 1v1, it probably wont help you to your overall goal of swinging well with tokens.
sol ring-not worth it in a green ramp/token deck. It is very unlikely the jump in mana early game will net you anything amazing and you will be extremely disappointed when you draw it late game instead of your overwhelming stampede.
for all my opinionated, subjective reasoning, I do have some suggestions, straight out of my own tolsimir token deck
genesis (even in token decks, you wanna get back creature cards...especially with eternal witness in your deck)
sacred mesa (been trying it out lately and I like it, though it depends if luminarch ascension is enough of a white flying token producing enchantment for you)
krosan grip/naturalize/altar's light (if you can buy/trade for it, you have to get krosan grip....if nothing else on this list of suggestions, plz get krosan grip)
abundance [cool little card if you havent seen it before...helps you ramp if you need ramp or get board control if thats what you need; but biggest of all, it combos with sylvan library to get you 3 cards (land or non-land) a turn for no life]
concordant crossroads (this really depends on the type of person you are and the type of playgroup you are in. Its a dangerous card to play with....but if you have beastmaster ascension out and concordant crossroads and you bust out with a lot of tokens....the game is yours)
sun titan (dont forget, you are also playing white and sun titan is a great recursion engine for things like aura shards, eternal witness, beastmaster ascension, sylvan library, sensei's divining top, lands)
vigor (i've been thinking of cutting him from the deck, but if you have tokens out he really is good)
chord of calling (sometimes you just need the creature to be there with the aid of the tokens you just produced...say vigor when your opponent decides to block? or acidic slime to kill an artifact or enchantment? its a great convoke card)
dauntless escort (man is he made for G/W token decks; the best stuff in the world can be when you get sun titan and this guy in play with some tokens)
vedalken orrery (I play with a lot of people who play white and have plenty of wraths, so its nice to have this card to be able to flash cards like gelatinous genesis and howl of the night pack without fearing of losing my tokens before I can attack with em.)
I don't think that I'll be taking any of the ramp out. Decks like this want a lot of lands, and I always found the land useful in my Radha deck.
You're probably right, dauntless escort probably is a little better, but I'd run both.
I want to keep knight-captain of eos, because enough soldiers means that your opponent can never deal you damage. I said in the beginning of the thread that I didn't just want this deck to be tokens, but also control and ramp. Relying on tokens for the win isn't enough for me, I want to shut down my opponent's options of dealing me damage.
Iona, akroma, and the archon are all staying.
I don't feel like typing a response to everything, but I'll try to work some of your suggestions into my deck, some of them were helpful.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
I've tested the deck and made a few changes. It is finally getting to where I like.
Brittle effigy is a great answer to Iona, and actually the only one there is in a deck like this. It also never hurts to have a nice exile spell with no drawback in EDH.
Primal command seems to be my only answer to planeswalkers other than planar cleansing and attacking into them. I was also thinking of adding oblivion stone for this reason.
Also, I was thinking of adding howl of the night pack just as another token producer, since I seem to be lacking on those a little. Can anyone suggest some more things that massively pump out tokens in one shot like avenger of zendikar and conquerors' pledge?
Also, doubling season+elspeth tirel/luminarch ascension=massive win. I found that out last night. Ha.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
Things you've specifically mentioned: Decree of Justice can give you a bunch of tokens at instant speed, uncounterably. Lignify is another answer to Iona. It's also nice to leave the creature on the field sometimes to shut down GY shenanigans or general recasting. Liquimetal Coating can be an answer to any permanent (including walkers), though you might not be running enough artifact hate to pull that off. Beastly with Aura Shards though.
Things that I love in token decks: Earthcraft gives you more mana than you know what to do with, and you're running enough basics to take advantage of it. Nature's Will also gives you a pretty sizable boost, as it's pretty rare that you'll not get at least one token through on an attack. The fact that it shuts down counters is great as well.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I've thought about decree of justice, but it just seems like way too much mana for not enough reward. Luminarch ascension, martial coup, and conquerors' pledge do the same thing only better, and are much more cost-effective on mana. I mean, if I want 6 soldier tokens, I will have to pay 9 instead of 5. I'd hate to sacrifice tempo just to get some extra tokens.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
Greater Good "Brainstorm" each turn with Voja tokens. Garruk's Packleader Draw a card when almost any creature enters play. Kavu Lair Same as Packleader, just symmetrical. Rhys the Redeemed is a 3/3 for 1 with Tolsimir in play; makes other 3/3s for 3, not to mention his "ultimate." Words of Wilding combos with Packleader/Lair; make a 2/2 for 1 colorless as many times as you'd like each turn.
EDIT: Mother of Runes probably won me a game last Friday night: nobody attacked me, because she makes it so difficult to trade favourably.
Off-the-wall suggestion, but one card I've always loved playing in token decks like this one is Muraganda Petroglyphs. As long as you're not playing anything that gives "All creatures you control (X)", it's definitely worth the 4 mana.
This deck is actually functional now, meaning i have all the cards on the deck list. I have taken off the cards that I do not have, and I have tinkered with the deck list as well. I'm still open to suggestions.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
Which card from Shards is that? I'm not familiar with one that has a similar effect.
Juniper Order Ranger really is awesome. As long as it's on the board, every token you make is bigger and it grows bigger with every token you make. Not to mention the infinite combos with Kitchen Finks, Woodfall Primus, or anything else with persist, when combined with a sacrifice outlet.
I'm really not too concerned about making my creatures huge, I already have enough pump effects. What I need the most is more ways to generate tokens, and most importantly, more ways to generate card advantage, ie: card draw, etc.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
Yeah, I mean, making a 1/1 into a 2/2 when it enters the battlefield isn't really that important to me. Like I said, it is too slow and easily disrupted... and there is better stuff I could be doing with my mana.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
I'd rather not run cards that rely on already having tokens in play, since the board will get wrathed a lot when you're playing tokens. As far as skullmulcher goes, I had him in my original deck list, but it turns out sacrificing my win conditions isn't all that good.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
+Caged sun
+Green sun's zenith
+Hallowed burial
+Condemn
+Beast within
Caged sun is kind of like mirari's wake #2. The zenith has some good targets, but it would be even better if I ever got a primeval titan for this deck. Hallowed burial is one of the best sweepers in this format because of the tucking. It negates graveyard shenanigans and re-casting generals. Condemn for the same reasons. Beast within is a much-needed vindicate effect.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
So this deck is officially dead, I've taken it apart and moved on to other decks. I will still leave the thread here as a reference for other players though.
I believe that I have enough social competence to slip into a party or two, potentially wooing some attractive females that would not mind spending the evening performing the booty dance on me.
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1 Tolsimir wolfblood
Creatures:
1 Captain of the watch
1 Rampaging baloths
1 Avenger of zendikar
1 Ant queen
1 Hero of bladehold
1 Vigor
1 Eternal witness
1 Dauntless escort
1 Mirror entity
1 Acidic slime
1 Sakura-tribe elder
1 Yavimaya elder
1 Oracle of mul daya
Instants/sorceries:
1 Storm herd
1 Conqueror's pledge
1 martial coup
1 Hour of reckoning
1 Hallowed burial
1 Planar cleansing
1 Akroma's vengeance
1 Day of judgment
1 Austere command
1 Swords to plowshares
1 Path to exile
1 Condemn
1 Beast within
1 Krosan grip
1 Kodama's reach
1 Cultivate
1 Rampant growth
1 Harrow
1 Explosive vegetation
1 Skyshroud claim
1 Harmonize
1 Collective unconscious
1 Regrowth
1 Praetor's counsel
1 Enlightened tutor
1 Eladamri's call
1 Worldly tutor
1 Green sun's zenith
1 Mirari's wake
1 Beastmaster ascension
1 True conviction
1 Luminarch ascension
1 Sylvan library
1 Doubling season
1 Glare of subdual
1 Aura shards
Artifacts:
1 Sol ring
1 Caged sun
1 Selesnya signet
1 Sensei's divining top
1 Skullclamp
1 Oblivion stone
1 Brittle effigy
Planeswalkers:
1 Elspeth, knight-errant
1 Elspeth tirel
1 Garruk wildspeaker
Land:
1 Command tower
1 Brushland
1 Graypelt refuge
1 Razorverge thicket
1 Sunpetal grove
1 Stirring wildwood
1 Wooded bastion
1 Pendelhaven
1 Strip mine
1 Vitu-ghazi, the city-tree
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
14 Plains
15 Forest
Does it seem balanced between ramp, token producers and utility cards? Could it use more tutors? Suggestions are welcome.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
I would take out:
gideon jura-doesn't seem to fit here in a token deck
journey of discovery-I dont like it much as a ramp spell
harrow-unless you are going for landfall or possibly playing a 3 or 5 color deck, its not good enough
nomads' assembly-I'm not sold on it being worth it (6 mana for how many 1/1 tokens? If you have 5 or more creatures in play, sure its worth the cost, but why would you want a bunch more 1/1 tokens for 6 mana and 1 card at that moment? I'd want a utility spell at that moment. And if you need to make tokens? Well then its a bad token producer)
yavimaya elder
birds of paradise
nullmage shepherd
selesnya guildmage
loxodon hierarch-this is a tough one, as there is a better card for this ability (dauntless escort), so it depends on 2 things: do you want 2 cards in the deck to increase the odds of having this ability; and if your creatures were to be killed, would you be able to regenerate them most of the time (wrath of god vs day of judgment)
knight-captain of eos-not big enough of a token producer for me
skullmulcher-understand the drawbacks with this card: it does not have flash, so you have to decide when you feel that the creatures are less important to you for killing someone with an overrun/stampede/kamahl than drawing cards. Honestly, I think there are good enough/better draws out there in green and colorless.
rhys the redeemed-this is another tough one because I know a lot of people like this card. To me, its too slow. No reliable haste in G/W, so it takes a while to get out 1 token...and it costs 3 mana!!! Really, you should only be using her for her second ability to interact with your other tokens you got from some other ability, and even then, do you really need that? I've tried her out before, and typically the board would get wrath'd by me or someone else just as or before I got to a respectable token count
Mycoloth-this one should be an easier devour cut than the other one. why? well because this ones benefits don't come instantly unlike skullmulcher. So whats a good amount of creatures to devour? 3-4? So on your turn, you devour 4 tokens lets say. Next turn you get those 4 tokens back, but they cant attack....but your other ones could have! Next turn you get another 4 and finally the first 4 can attack, but not the second 4. So here you are 2 turns later and you finally got the initial 4 1/1 tokens able and willing to attack that you could have had earlier. Not worth it. If you have tokens, you should be buffing em up and swinging with em...not saccing to hopefully get more down the road.
emeria angel-I dont like cards that just get me about 1 per turn....if im lucky
vengeful archon-doesn't feel like it sits right with the rest of the deck...no synergy here
iona, shield of emeria-tough card to cast; in a token deck, unless you are playing 1v1, it probably wont help you to your overall goal of swinging well with tokens.
akroma, angel of wrath-dont like it in this deck for the same reasons as iona
sol ring-not worth it in a green ramp/token deck. It is very unlikely the jump in mana early game will net you anything amazing and you will be extremely disappointed when you draw it late game instead of your overwhelming stampede.
for all my opinionated, subjective reasoning, I do have some suggestions, straight out of my own tolsimir token deck
suggested adds:
howl of the night pack-(i play with plenty of forests)
gelatinous genesis
ant queen (trust me, its not slow when you've been ramping)
privileged position (playing G/W?, then you need this card)
oracle of mul daya (best damn ramp this side of the Mississippi)
wolfbriar elemental
acidic slime (if you're gonna have creature tutors, I advise this one as it is soooo nice to tutor for removal...qasali pridemage could also fit here)
verdant force (dude makes tokens in multiplayer...simple as that)
avenger of zendikar (token deck? your list calls for him)
silklash spider (air can be pretty hairy for green decks....even G/W ones, and silklash deals with it the best)
primeval titan (if you are willing to splurge on the $$, lemme just say he is the first creature I tutor for every game)
primal command (I like the commands...in EDH its nice when a card does 2 things for a little bit more mana)
regrowth (recursion recursion recursion)
genesis (even in token decks, you wanna get back creature cards...especially with eternal witness in your deck)
sacred mesa (been trying it out lately and I like it, though it depends if luminarch ascension is enough of a white flying token producing enchantment for you)
krosan grip/naturalize/altar's light (if you can buy/trade for it, you have to get krosan grip....if nothing else on this list of suggestions, plz get krosan grip)
abundance [cool little card if you havent seen it before...helps you ramp if you need ramp or get board control if thats what you need; but biggest of all, it combos with sylvan library to get you 3 cards (land or non-land) a turn for no life]
concordant crossroads (this really depends on the type of person you are and the type of playgroup you are in. Its a dangerous card to play with....but if you have beastmaster ascension out and concordant crossroads and you bust out with a lot of tokens....the game is yours)
sun titan (dont forget, you are also playing white and sun titan is a great recursion engine for things like aura shards, eternal witness, beastmaster ascension, sylvan library, sensei's divining top, lands)
vigor (i've been thinking of cutting him from the deck, but if you have tokens out he really is good)
chord of calling (sometimes you just need the creature to be there with the aid of the tokens you just produced...say vigor when your opponent decides to block? or acidic slime to kill an artifact or enchantment? its a great convoke card)
overwhelming stampede (most of the time, it comes out like a double overrun)
dauntless escort (man is he made for G/W token decks; the best stuff in the world can be when you get sun titan and this guy in play with some tokens)
vedalken orrery (I play with a lot of people who play white and have plenty of wraths, so its nice to have this card to be able to flash cards like gelatinous genesis and howl of the night pack without fearing of losing my tokens before I can attack with em.)
Hope this helps
Tolsimir Wolfblood G/W
You're probably right, dauntless escort probably is a little better, but I'd run both.
I want to keep knight-captain of eos, because enough soldiers means that your opponent can never deal you damage. I said in the beginning of the thread that I didn't just want this deck to be tokens, but also control and ramp. Relying on tokens for the win isn't enough for me, I want to shut down my opponent's options of dealing me damage.
Iona, akroma, and the archon are all staying.
I don't feel like typing a response to everything, but I'll try to work some of your suggestions into my deck, some of them were helpful.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
There will be enough fatties on the board to make decent use of Overwhelming Stampede, most likely being better off than Overrun.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
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I do like the captain though, I'll try to find a place for him.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
Brittle effigy is a great answer to Iona, and actually the only one there is in a deck like this. It also never hurts to have a nice exile spell with no drawback in EDH.
Primal command seems to be my only answer to planeswalkers other than planar cleansing and attacking into them. I was also thinking of adding oblivion stone for this reason.
Also, I was thinking of adding howl of the night pack just as another token producer, since I seem to be lacking on those a little. Can anyone suggest some more things that massively pump out tokens in one shot like avenger of zendikar and conquerors' pledge?
Also, doubling season+elspeth tirel/luminarch ascension=massive win. I found that out last night. Ha.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
Decree of Justice can give you a bunch of tokens at instant speed, uncounterably.
Lignify is another answer to Iona. It's also nice to leave the creature on the field sometimes to shut down GY shenanigans or general recasting.
Liquimetal Coating can be an answer to any permanent (including walkers), though you might not be running enough artifact hate to pull that off. Beastly with Aura Shards though.
Things that I love in token decks:
Earthcraft gives you more mana than you know what to do with, and you're running enough basics to take advantage of it.
Nature's Will also gives you a pretty sizable boost, as it's pretty rare that you'll not get at least one token through on an attack. The fact that it shuts down counters is great as well.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
Garruk's Packleader Draw a card when almost any creature enters play.
Kavu Lair Same as Packleader, just symmetrical.
Rhys the Redeemed is a 3/3 for 1 with Tolsimir in play; makes other 3/3s for 3, not to mention his "ultimate."
Words of Wilding combos with Packleader/Lair; make a 2/2 for 1 colorless as many times as you'd like each turn.
EDIT: Mother of Runes probably won me a game last Friday night: nobody attacked me, because she makes it so difficult to trade favourably.
I still play Vs System: www.vssystem.org
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
Tolsimir Wolfblood G/W
Good in 1v1, not so good in multi. I guess if I can find one in a dollar rare bin, it might be worth testing.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
My Trade Thread
Yeah, I've seen that card before, but I guess I just forgot about it. I'll put it on my wants list before I forget about it again...
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
I tried a card from shards that was similar to that card, and I didn't really care for it. It is too slow and inefficient.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
Juniper Order Ranger really is awesome. As long as it's on the board, every token you make is bigger and it grows bigger with every token you make. Not to mention the infinite combos with Kitchen Finks, Woodfall Primus, or anything else with persist, when combined with a sacrifice outlet.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
I'm really not too concerned about making my creatures huge, I already have enough pump effects. What I need the most is more ways to generate tokens, and most importantly, more ways to generate card advantage, ie: card draw, etc.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
+Green sun's zenith
+Hallowed burial
+Condemn
+Beast within
Caged sun is kind of like mirari's wake #2. The zenith has some good targets, but it would be even better if I ever got a primeval titan for this deck. Hallowed burial is one of the best sweepers in this format because of the tucking. It negates graveyard shenanigans and re-casting generals. Condemn for the same reasons. Beast within is a much-needed vindicate effect.
I'm still open to suggestions.
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything
RUG Riku, Two is Better Than One
UB [PRIMER] Wrexial, Classic Control
RG Radha, Ramp's Theme Goes With Everything