Diplomatic Sanctions is a semi-competitive BGU EDH deck designed for small multiplayer games but can also function in duels and larger multiplayer games. The deck runs creatures, removal spells and Timetwister like wheel effects to generate major advantage over our opponents to take control of the game. The deck is named Diplomatic Sanctions because of the political lore behind its general, Leovold, Emissary of Trest. The deck is political in the sense of strong arming its opponents with powerful suppression tactics. Ultimately, Diplomatic Sanctions is a fun deck to play that has a wide array of options for controlling our opponents’ board position and interacting with players.
Why Leovold?
Leovold, Emissary of Trest is a very powerful general that only costs 3 mana. Playing Sultai colors in a control deck is strong because you have access to blue which offers some of the best card advantage and is the only color that can consistently counter spells. Sulati colors also give us access to black, an excellent color for tutoring specific answers and threats and creature removal. Green helps us ramp and mana fix so we can win quickly.
Leovold, Emissary of Trest is a 3/3 for BUG, he’s also an elf, a very relevant and powerful creature type. Let’s evaluate Levold’s two abilities.
Each opponent can't draw more than one card each turn.
This ability can be compared to Spirit of the Labyrinth, expect it only hinders our opponents. This prevents our opponents from gaining value from staples including Brainstorm, Phyrexian Arena, and Blue Sun's Zenith. The ability is especially powerful when used in tandem with cards that make all players draw cards. For example, with Leovold, Emissary of Trest on the battlefield, Howling Mine, becomes a strictly better Phyrexian Arena. Diplomatic Sanctions does not rely on draw engines like Howling Mine, Font of Mythos, or Rites of Flourishing. While these cards are good with Leovold, they are only good with him on the battlefield, and are mediocre at best otherwise. Moreover, playing these cards will only encourage people to remove our general.
The best way to take advantage of this ability are with one time wheel effects. These are spells that force our opponents to discard hand or shuffle it into their library and then draw several cards. Leovold’s ability turns a spell like Day's Undoing into a brutal discard spell that also refills our hand.
Whenever you or a permanent you control becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, you may draw a card.
This ability can best be compared to the abilities of Rayne, Academy Chancellor and Reparations. It means that if our opponent uses Swords to Plowshares on Leovold, Emissary of Trest, we are more likely to draw that extra land we will need in order to recast him. Leovold’s second ability gives us card advantage every time we are targeted by our opponents’ spells and abilities or any of our permanents are targeted.
With creatures like Spellskite and Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, this ability strongly discourages our opponents from targeting permanents we control.
You should play Diplomatic Sanctions if:
You like playing oppressive spells that control the board.
You like drawing lots of cards.
You like piloting a deck with a powerful general.
You like having options and making decisions.
Diplomatic Sanctions might not be for you if:
You like playing creatures more than spells.
You enjoy winning by commander damage
You don’t like to react to your opponents’ decisions
Chrome Mox is an excellent card that enables explosive starts. Generally we will want to exile an extra ramp or wheel effect we have or a high converted mana cost bomb that wouldn’t be useful early game. Chrome Mox ramps and fixes and is phenomenal with multicolored spells like Sultai Charm.
Sol Ring is Sol Ring. What were they thinking? It’s incredibly backbreaking early game and I feel guilty for playing it but all my friends do.
Burgeoning allows us to have very explosive starts in multiplayer games. The card has value mid to late game in Diplomatic Sanctions because of the wheel effects we also run.
Exploration is excellent for reasons similar to Burgeoning. It enables explosive starts that allow us to combo or play higher CMC win conditioners earlier.
Birds of Paradise needs no introduction. It is arguably the best one drop green creature ever printed. It is acceleration and mana fixing. Early game it enables turn two Leovold, Emissary of Trest but it can also block fliers late game!
Sakura-Tribe Elder is essentially a poor man’s Farseek, but it’s still a strong spell. Consistency is good and mana fixing when playing a 3 colored deck is crucial. Also, we can chump block with Sakura-Tribe Elder and then fetch.
Protection
It turns each removal spell against us into a 4 for 1.
Sylvan Safekeeper discourages our opponents from targeting Leovold and our other creatures for only one mana. Sacrificing a land seems steep, but when he is on the battlefield at the same time Leovold, opponents are reluctant to target our creatures. Even if we do need to sacrifice a land or two, it's not too dire because our curve is low.
Lightning Greaves needs no introduction. Haste and shroud on a 2 converted mana cost equipment is very strong. This equipment gives any of our bombs haste, it can protect Leovold from removal before we combo with a wheel effect and can give mana dorks like Birds or Paradise and Bloom Tender haste. Lightning Greaves is much better card than Swiftfoot Boots!
Spellskite is similar to Sylvan Safekeeper in that it discourages our opponents from targeting our creatures. Spellskite has the added benefit of protecting our artifacts and other noncreature permanents. Best of all it is on curve in that we can play it on turn two followed by our general on turn 3. Spellskite protects Leovold, Emmissary of Trest, Teferi's Puzzle Box, Sire of Stagnation and other important cards. It is also worth mentioning that Spellskite can steal pump spells and auras that target our opponents' creatures (Angelic Destiny, Bear Umbra, Eldrazi Conscription, etc.) For these reasons, Spellskite is frequently a great early game choice for us to tutor.
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner is the ultimate protector of creatures. She essentially turns any targeted removal creature spell used against us into a 4 for 1 (our opponent needs to use two removal spells and we get to draw two cards just for them to be able to remove one creature). She also has the added benefit of being a creature with flying which allows her to snipe planeswalkers and block dangerous flying threats.
Nonwheel Card Advantage
The best blue draw engine is a green card.
Preordain is scry 2, draw 1. Very often it is better than Ponder.
Baleful Strix is a rattlesnake deathtouch creature that replaces itself and has excellent synergy with Bloom Tender.
Notion Thief functions as an alternate Leovold, Emissary of Trest in a sense. He punishes our opponents when they try to draw extra cards. The flash makes him especially powerful.
Sylvan Library is an absolutely all star in this deck. It functions as a strong card advantage engine throughout the entire game and has terrific synergy with the many shuffle effects throughout the decklist.
Phyrexian Arena is one of the most powerful black cards in the format. Being able to fundamentally change the 1 card per turn rule for a measly 3 mana and a 1 life per turn investment is is almost as good as Yawgmouth's Bargin.
Rhystic Study draws a lot of cards over a long game, especially a multiplayer game. In some instances this card is better than Phyrexian Arena. Rhystic Study is a very strong card even if it doesn’t draw us many cards because it slows our opponents down tremendously.
Tutors
It's our second copy of Teferi's Puzzle Box and more.
Mystical Tutor allows us to choose the next card we draw to any instant or sorcery card in our deck. It will frequently be used to find wheel effects but Mystical Tutor is very versatile because it can also help us find removal spells.
Vampiric Tutor is one of the best black spells ever printed. For a measly two life, it allows us to choose the next card we draw to ANY card in our library without having to reveal it! Vampiric Tutor is an all star!
Worldly Tutor is similar to Mystical Tutor except it can find us any creature. It isn’t quite as versatile or powerful, but it is still very strong. Early game it can be used to get use a strong protection creature like Kira, Great Glass-Spinner or Spellskite and late game it can find powerful win conditions.
Demonic Tutor may be the best tutor the deck runs. While it isn’t instant speed for just 2 mana we can search for any card from our library and put it into our hand. This spell is as versatile as Vampiric Tutor but has the added benefit of not costing any life and brings the card straight to our hand!
Arcane Denial is a hard counter for 1U. That in itself makes it very useful. With Leovold, Emissary of Trest on the battlefield, you can prevent your opponent from drawing one or both cards!
Countersquall prevents noncreature spells which really are the spells that we should be the most concerned with. It is good at interacting with removal spells that would go after Leovold, Emissary of Trest and counterspells that might try to stop Leovold or wheel effects. It’s easy to cast in a three colored deck and has the added benefit for pinging our opponent for two!
Counterspell is Counterspell. Sometimes you don’t need a fancy flashy counter. 2 mana to reliably counter any spell. Ideally if money isn't a factor, this would be Mana Drain.
Delay is a very useful and underrated spell, especially in multiplayer games. While it’s not an unconditional counter, it suspends any spell for 3 turns, generally more than enough time to combo off, or find another answer to the said threat. Delay is great in multiplayer games because if we counter a removal spell that was originally coming towards one of our threats, 3 turns later, a more pressing threat that isn't ours may be targeted instead!
Negate needs little introduction but is essentially a second Countersquall that is even easier to cast!
Go for the Throat is generally a very strong removal spell in most metas. There aren’t too many useful creatures in the format that are artifacts without indestructible so very frequently we get to Murder for two mana.
No Mercy is the ultimate pillow fort card. While it doesn’t prevent our opponents from attacking our planeswalkers, it is much more effective than Propaganda and Ghostly Prison at discouraging direct attacks.
Putrefy is unconditional creature removal with the added benefit of being able to remove an artifact.
Nature's Claim is Naturalize for one mana with a drawback that hardly matters. In rare cases we can use Nature’s Claim in a pinch if we need some life we can destroy one of our permanents.
Abrupt Decay is one of the most pushed removal spells in recent memory. It is very versatile. Abrupt Decay can destroy many staples that are creatures, enchantments and artifacts. It can’t be countered and hits many popular generals including Leovold, Emissary of Trest in the mirror match.
Seal of Primordium like all seals are underrated. They are excellent rattlesnake cards that you can be very political and diplomatic with.
Cyclonic Rift instantly bounces every nonland permanent that isn't ours. Seriously. The fact that it is instant is insane and late game it means we can force an opponent to discard a bunch of permanents at their end step. Cyclonic Rift is one of the best cards in the format right now and it can flat out steal games.
Wheel Effects
Brutal, backbreaking and unfair.
Day's Undoing is a fixed Timetwister. It still is a tremendously powerful effect that is flat out broken with Leovold, Emissary of Trest on the battlefield. In tandem with our general, Day's Undoing essentially reads “Each player shuffles his or her hand and graveyard into his or her library. Then each opponent draws one card. Draw seven cards. If it's your turn, end the turn.” Playing this card after Leovold is on the battlefield is absolutely backbreaking, especially early game. Like all of the other wheel effects, stripping our opponents of their threats and answers and refueling our hand with win conditions and removal is incredibly strong.
Wheel and Deal is an often overlooked “wheel” effect. Frankly without Leovold, Emissary of Trest it is quite mediocre, but with him on the battlefield, for merely 3U we can make our opponents discard all their cards and draw only one card and we get to draw a card too!.
Whispering Madness a wheel effect for 4 mana that we can reuse with cipher if necessary. It isn’t the best wheel effect, but still very useful with Leovold, Emissary of Trest and running it increases the likelyhood we can punish our opponents.
Windfall is a very useful wheel effect with Leovold, Emissary of Trest. It only costs 3 mana and is very easy to cast colors wise. In some instances, this card is better than Day’s Undoing!
Teferi's Puzzle Box is the best combo piece we have with Leovold, Emissary of Trest. This is because the ruling for the card states that “You do your normal draw before this ability is put on the stack.” This means that with Leovold on the battlefield, each opponent must draw their card after their upkeep, then shuffle that card into their library along with any other cards in their hand, and not draw any additional cards because of Leovold’s first ability! This can lock our opponents out of the game, unless the card that they top draw is an instant spell that can remove Teferi's Puzzle Box.
Time Spiral is a “fixed” Timetwister that is in many instances better than Day’s Undoing. While Time Spiral does cost 6 to cast, it’s essentially free because we get to untap up to six lands afterwards, and we don’t have to end our turn.
Win Conditions
It's a free Mind Control. What were they thinking?
Vendilion Clique is more of a versatile utility creature than a win condition bomb. That being said, with Leovold, Emissary of Trest out, Vendilion Clique is suddenly an instant speed Thoughtseize on a 3/1 body with flying! We can also use her to cycle a ramp spell or mana dork if we are mana flooded to get to an answer or threat. Additionally, Vendilion Clique can be flashed in as a blocker against an attacker with a toughness of 3 or less, essentially using it as a reactive removal spell.
Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is a very efficient beater and provides much needed lifegain to offset the life loss from the various pain lands and fetchlands throughout our mana base. He also is graveyard hate for reanimation strategies that may normally benefit from some of our wheel effects and he’s insurance against board wipes (remember, if Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet dies at the same time as creatures your opponents control, those creature cards will be exiled and you’ll get that many Zombies). He also scales well with the game. Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet can get bigger and gain us more life over the course of a game!
Painful Quandary paints a large target on our back but the effect is too powerful to pass up. Forcing players to discard their options and win conditions or lose significant amounts of life really puts players in a bind. This is card is especially strong when our opponents are in top draw mode after a wheel effect!
Nath of the Gilt-Leaf has fantastic synergy with wheel effects like Windfall and other cards like Painful Quandry. It also puts pressure on our opponents and offers defensive bodies over the course of the game.
Frost Titan can repeatedly lock down a threat or a mana resource like a Birds of Paradise or an Ancient Tomb. The fact that it costs 2 more to target on top of Leovold’s ability makes opponents very hesitant to want to remove it.
Massacre Wurm is a 6/5 body that is a one way Infest that punishes our opponents whenever their creatures die. Massacre Wurm is very useful after a wheel effect.
Sire of Stagnation is similar to Consecrated Sphinx in that it draws us a lot of cards over the course of a long game if unanswered but it also has other benefits. It encourages players to miss their land drops which offers us a tempo advantage, it also disrupts library manipulation spells our opponents use like Sensei's Divining Top, Sylvan Library and Preordain. Additionally, because Sire of Stagnation is Devoid, it can avoid certain answers like Sultai Charm and can block creatures that have protection from black and blue!
Wurmcoil Engine is similar to Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet in that it provides much needed life gain to offset the life loss this deck has. Additionally it can be tutored by Fabricate and discourages our opponents from using board wipes like Wrath of God.
Villainous Wealth is a very strong bomb late game where we essentially get to Genesis Wave our opponent’s library. While it doesn’t allow us to play their lands, we do get to actually cast their spells which means we can gain advantage some special triggers.
Deck Trait Breakdown
Acceleration and Fixing: Piloting a combo deck with a three color general means that having access to all of your colors and being able to play your mana curve is incredibly important. Diplomatic Sanctions has a great mana base, that only includes 10 basic lands. Additionally the deck includes 12 spells that ramp, mana fix or both. Some of the highlights include Bloom Tender, Chrome Mox and Nature’s Lore. (8/10)
Card Advantage: Diplomatic Sanctions has general that draws us cards throughout the course of the game, plus it runs some of the best card advantage engines in the format including Phyrexian Arena, Sylvan Library and Rhystic Study. Most importantly, the wheel effects like Time Spiral and Day’s Undoing bring us superb card advantage.
(10/10)
Control: This is where this deck performs the best. This deck has multiple spells that can answer all problems, regardless their of permanent type. The heavy hand disruption that Teferi’s Puzzle Box provides against our opponents while Leovold is on the battlefield is especially brutal. (9/10)
Permission: The deck runs seven counter spells with a converted mana cost of 1 or 2. This is to ensure the spells are easy to cast early to mid game. Many of the counter spells ensure that Leovold isn’t removed while we are attempting to use a wheel spell (i.e. Turn Aside, Dispel, Negate). Diplomatic Sanctions doesn't need to run too many counter spells because once the deck combos out with a wheel effect it becomes very easy to take control of the game. (8/10)
Mass Removal: This deck only runs one mass removal spells, Cyclonic Rift. We don't need to run too many mass removal spells because of our fantastic control suite. That being said, Cyclonic Rift is incredibly powerful with Teferi’s Puzzle Box on the battlefield. (4/10)
Tutoring: Levold’s colors offer us access to some of the best tutors in the format. A combo deck wants to ensure some sense of consistency and spells like Demonic Tutor, Fabricate, and Vampiric Tutor really provide superb advantage. We frequently will use these spells to tutor for wheels early game or win conditions late game (8/10)
Other Options
Torpor Orb punishes most decks, including this one.
Propaganda is good at deterring our opponents from attacking us directly but it is not nearly as useful as No Mercy.
Dark Deal is a very strong wheel effect that is often compared to Day’s Undoing but the fact that is makes us draw less cards makes it weaker in comparison.
Geier Reach Sanitarium and Mikokoro, Center of the Sea are very useful utility lands with Leovold on the battlefield, but they are much better in a duel setting rather than multiplayer, additionally, color consistency is very important in this deck so there isn’t much room for colorless mana sources.
Consecrated Sphinx is an excellent bomb and card advantage engine, but it isn’t really necessary and the 4 power is underwhelming.
Thassa, God of the Sea would bring us filtering advantage and a win condition. However she shares the same CMC as our general, so it’s hard to make the case, and it’s hard to turn her devotion on in a three colored deck.
Brainstorm is an excellent card manipulation spell, especially if we’re shuffling our library, which this deck does a lot. Ponder and Preordain are also great and are much better when we aren’t shuffling.
Oracle of Mul Daya is an excellent ramp and card advantage source but four mana is a little steep considering how low the curve is for this deck.
Silence The Believers is a great removal spells that exiles threats but it has a high converted mana cost.
Damnation is an excellent board wipe but the deck doesn’t really need board wipes.
Toxic Deluge is a good board wipe that only costs 3 mana but the life loss drawback that can be oppressive when we already have several lands that deal damage to us. It doesn't keep creatures outside of the graveyard but it can answer creatures that can regenerate or have indestructible.
An excellent board wipe with a steep price.
Cryptic Command is the most versatile counterspell in the format but the triple blue cost can be very difficult cast and four mana is a lot to keep open.
Fact or Fiction digs deep at instant speed and gives us great card advantage. It is especially strong when you can single out an opponent that is poor at making decisions.
Staff of Nin has a high converted mana cost of 6 mana, but it draws us a card every turn and can ping our opponents. More importantly it can kill mana dorks, utility creatures and weaken planeswalkers.
Leyline of Anticipation allows us to flash in Leovold at the end of our opponents’ turns and play cards like Day’s Undoing at instant speed. It also allows us to flash in our win conditions but the deck likes to combo fast enough where the card seems slow if it isn’t revealed in our opening hand.
Dig Through Time is a fantastic draw spell that makes use of our graveyard mid to late game but wheel effects like Time Spiral removal our graveyard to make this card to mana intensive.
How To Play
Early Game
Diplomatic Sanctions succeeds when it has strong openings and is able to combo and generate advantage quickly. Ideally our opening hand should contain two or three lands, a mana fixing or ramp spell, and a wheel effect or tutor that can find a wheel effect. Depending on the match ups, ensuring that there is a plan towards protecting Leovold (i.e. using a protection spell, having a counter spell, or a tutor that can search for a protection spell) can also be important. A hand that does not have most or all of these conditions could lead to a weak start. Consider the following hand:
This is an excellent hand. We have all of our colors with our land base. We have Birds of Paradise to provide acceleration, Spellskite to protect Leovold, Emissary of Trest, Delay as a general answer to any problem or backup protection and Day's Undoing, a fantastic wheel effect. With this hand the beginning of the game might go like this:
Note that this is not even considering additional cards we would have been drawing during these turns! Suppose on one of the turns we drew a Chrome Mox or Sol Ring or Nature's Lore, we could have done more or used the combo faster. Also, if we wanted to play more aggressively, we could have skipped playing Spellskite and we could have played Leovold on turn 2 followed by Day's Undoing on turn 3.
At first glance, this hand seems really strong. We have two lands, including a scry land, a Sol Ring that can help us ramp, Kira, Great Glass-Spinner to protect Leovold, and Tezzeret, the Seeker for tutoring our best wheel effect, Teferi's Puzzle Box. While all of this is true, all of the spells aside from Sol Ring are blue and we don't have anyway to get blue mana. If we were to keep this hand, here's a simulation of what may happen if we played with this hand:
Sample hand 2 is an example of hand we shouldn't keep. However, if the Forest was a Command Tower instead, it would be a very good hand.
It is especially important to have some form of protection for Leovold before using a wheel effect. Wheel and Deal is suddenly a terrible card if we cast it and in response Leovold is removed. The last thing we want to do is get greedy. Turn 3 Days Undoing is very oppressive, but it can be risky without a way of protecting our general. Turn 4 Days Undoing with enough mana to counter a removal spell is much safer and is still incredibly brutal. That being said, don't be afraid to cast Leovold, Emissary of Trest without protection. In some instances it's even okay to cast a wheel effect without protection (i.e. if our opponents have no open mana or we have reason to believe they don't have removal spells at their disposal).
Mid Game
If we are able to wheel with Leovold out by turn 5, we are going to be in a very good position. However sometimes there still are threats on the board and suddenly we are going to be target number one on everyone's list. This is where cards like No Mercy, Baleful Strix, Massacre Wurm and our removal spells start to come into play. People might hate our guts, but generally no one wants to attack against a No Mercy unless they absolutely have to.
Sometimes keeping the pressure up after a wheel effect can be as simple as playing a bomb like Frost Titan to strong arm our opponents into submission. One thing that is important to keep in mind about the mid game is it's okay if you didn't get an opportunity to use a wheel effect with Leovold, Emissary of Trest out. These abilities are still very useful later in the game and Diplomatic Sanctions is designed to still be an oppressive and aggressive control deck without using cards like Time Spiral. Playing bombs on turns 4 and 5 like Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, Bribery and Painful Quandary are very strong. Opponents will sometimes save their removal and counter magic for Leovold and wheel effects only to forget that the deck has other major problems that need to be answered immediately.
After the first few turns of the game, we really want to start applying pressure. This is going to be a time where we remove threats our opponents have and start attacking and reducing their life totals. Cards like Abrupt Decay and Putrefy can answer threats directed our way. Treachery is incredibly useful mid game to remove a threat and gain a utility creature or an opponent's commander all while maintaining tempo and value because we can untap 5 lands afterwards.If we were able to get a wheel effect off, our opponents are forced into a desperate top draw mode where our counterspells really get a chance to shine. Vendilion Clique is also very strong in the mid game, we can flash it and start beating face after we steal a potential threat from our opponent.
Late Game
Tip: Villainous Wealth is a late game powerhouse.
The late game is about closing things out. Sometimes this is casting Teferi's Puzzle Box with our general out causing a soft lock that makes our opponents feel truly helpless. If we are able to get Teferi's Puzzle Box on the battlefield after a Cyclonic Rift, our opponents may just concede. Tutors are often useful early game because they increase the likelyhood of encountering pivotal cards early game before our opponents can get their footing. While this is true, tutors also shine late game. Late game we often know exactly what we are looking for and are much more likely to have the excess mana to use our answer or threat soon after we acquire it.
Painful Quandry is very good late game because it puts our opponents in a harsh bind, especially if they have few cards in their hand. Villainous Wealth is an incredibly flashy way to close out a game and in the late game it can gain us tremendous value. It is also good to use wheel effect late game with Leovold, Emissary of Trest out even if our opponents don't have many cards in their hand, it's a great way to restock our hand and access more answers and win conditions.
Ultimately the late game is about our win conditions taking over the game. At this stage we can use cards like Frost Titan, Wurmcoil Engine and Bribery to really start dealing significant damage to our opponents.
Final Thoughts
Diplomatic Sanctions isn't a an easy deck to pilot. It's a control deck, but it doesn't really bide it's time or grind through a game. It's a combo deck, but it's not an incredibly easy combo to put together, nor does the deck need to combo in order to win. Like any combo and control deck, it requires excellent decision making and threat assessment skills to play successfully. That being said, playing with Leovold, Emissary of Trest is exciting, fun, and engaging. Diplomatic Sanctions is a powerful deck that interacts with all players that is a blast to play.
September 5, 2016: In: Lotus Petal Out: Ponder Reason: The deck succeeds with strong openings, while we only can use Lotus Petal once, in the early game it enables turn 2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest. It can also give us a turn 1 Farseek/Nature's Lore. Sometimes it gives us that extra one mana we need to keep up mana for Dispel or Turn Aside. Ponder is a great card, but Preordain smooths our draws better, and Ponder isn't very good unless we use a shuffle effect.
September 5, 2016: In: Mox Diamond Out: Sol Ring Reason: Sol Ring is obviously one of the best cards in the format, but early game, it doesn't really help us play Leovold, Emissary of Trest early because it doesn't make colored mana. Mox Diamond is great because it helps us make all our colors, and can help us in an instance we are mana flooded, or we want to make additional mana in a turn where we have a land that enters tapped.
September 13, 2016: In: Diminishing Returns Out: Whispering Madness Reason: Drawing on average 4 or 5 cards is not as good as refilling our entire hand. Exiling ten cards from our library is a very minor drawback. Diminishing Returns also functions as additional graveyard hate.
September 27, 2016: In: Blooming Marsh Out: Forest Reason: Blooming Marsh unconditionally makes G or B mana for the first turns of the game. This deck is primary about the early game so this is an outstanding addition to our list and a must run. In this deck it is virtually strictly better than a Forest and a very easy decision to make.
September 27, 2016: In: Noxious Gearhulk Out: Evacuation Reason: Noxious Gearhulk is ultimately a better Duplicant. He has Menace which offers him a good form of evasion, he will always be a 5/4 which certainly can't be said about Duplicant. He gains us life, and in some instances a lot, in a deck that uses as many fetch and pain lands as Diplomatic Sanctions, this life gain can be the difference between winning and losing games. One of the drawbacks of Noxious Gearhulk is it is an artifact creature which makes it easier to remove. While this is true, it also can be tutored with Fabricate. Evacuation is a very strong card that has excellent synergy with Teferi's Puzzle Box and Leovold, Emissary of Trest but it's ultimately a win more combo that requires 8 mana to pull off. Noxious Gearhulk is always good.
This deck and analysis is a work in progress. I expect to make many updates in the days to come including changes, alternate options, how to pilot, along with strengths and weaknesses. Feedback and recommendations are greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading!
Words of Waste is fairly mean with your Draw-7's. Means they cost 1 more and you only draw 7, but your opponents now have no hand instead. Also, once hands are empty, Anvil of Bogardan is a solid lock piece. Im also a fan of Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir once you have your lock pieces in place to make it a hard lock.
I made a few amendments to the original post including updating the "How To Play" section.
I appreciate the feedback so far, please keep suggestions coming, I think Leovold, Emissary of Trest has a ton of potential and there are a lot of directions to go with him in a control shell. Here are my thoughts on the responses made so far:
Words of Waste is fairly mean with your Draw-7's. Means they cost 1 more and you only draw 7, but your opponents now have no hand instead. Also, once hands are empty, Anvil of Bogardan is a solid lock piece. Im also a fan of Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir once you have your lock pieces in place to make it a hard lock.
Words of Waste is an interesting card. I felt that it was way too many intensive and sort of win more. You have to pay 1 mana each time you draw a card, it's sort of like a reverse Notion Thief you have to keep paying for.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is a good recommendation that is worth mentioning in the "Other Options" section. I love how well it interacts with Teferi's Puzzle Box and how it fits lore synergy. However, the triple blue is sometimes difficult to cast. I did test it, and I felt it wasn't especially useful outside of the lock, and it's sort of win more and it is unfun to play against because it literally prevents our opponents from having any chance to interact with us. There also aren't enough creatures in the deck now to gain value out of the flash ability.
Anvil of Bogardan is very strong with Leovold, Emissary of Trest but it's only good with him on the battlefield. Without our general out, similar to Howling Mine, it is mediocre at best otherwise. Also, with Anvil of Bogardan on the battlefield, it will only encourage our opponents to remove Leovold more.
Unfortunately that is not how Aluren works. While Aluren means we can replay Leovold, Emissary of Trest because of it's converted mana cost of 3, the commander tax is an additional cost that Aluren doesn't get around. So if Leovold is removed twice and Aluren is out, we would still have to pay 4 to cast him. Definitely not worth it for a card slot, especially considering it would let our opponents to play their creatures faster.
The deck looks like a blast to play, I'm just wondering how much fun it will be to play against? Hardlocking opponents is one thing and I guess an ok strategy, but If someone would play this deck against me and lock me I expect him to finish the deal quickly. With the few creatures you have and the defense one or more opponents will probably have, this is going to take long. I think you should include something to win faster post-lock or people will not want to play against this deck anymore if it becomes effective in doing what it does. I have no idea what at this point (The Rack?) but will post if I think of something.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
The deck looks like a blast to play, I'm just wondering how much fun it will be to play against? Hardlocking opponents is one thing and I guess an ok strategy, but If someone would play this deck against me and lock me I expect him to finish the deal quickly. With the few creatures you have and the defense one or more opponents will probably have, this is going to take long. I think you should include something to win faster post-lock or people will not want to play against this deck anymore if it becomes effective in doing what it does. I have no idea what at this point (The Rack?) but will post if I think of something.
You make some great points. This deck isn't designed to be played in large multiplayer games with 5 or more players. It does become kind of difficult to close things out in larger games. But there are win conditions, and while there aren't tons of them, with the wheel effects, it is very easy to encounter multiple threats. I am considering cutting Notion Thief and replacing it with another mid range bomb. Icefall Regent and Dread are two cards that I want to test. A question for you and anyone else who has any suggestions, what are some other bombs/win conditions in the 4 to 6 converted mana cost range that would be strong for this deck?
Btw V-clique doesn't hit lands. Soooo yah. Might want to fix that.
That is correct, I meant to write that if we are mana flooded we can use Vendilion Clique to cycle away a mana dork or ramp spell. Noted and updated. Thanks!
Note: I made the first update to the change log. I replaced Rampant Growth with Sakura-Tribe Elder, which for the most part is strictly better because it can chump block and then fetch. Three Visits is another card that can go in this slot. Keep in mind that if you don't have one already, you'll have to pay $40.00 for what is essentially just a second copy of Nature's Lore. Into The North can go here also if you want to add a snow package in the deck list. If you are running Into The North, all of your basic lands should be snow covered basics. Additionally you should make room for Mouth of Ronom and Frost Marsh. Personally I don't think it's worth it, because Frost Marsh is a strictly worse Temple of Deceit/Opulent Palace and Mouth of Ronom is very strong but I think it's difficult to run colorless mana sources in a 3 colored deck that wants to combo quickly.
The deck looks like a blast to play, I'm just wondering how much fun it will be to play against? Hardlocking opponents is one thing and I guess an ok strategy, but If someone would play this deck against me and lock me I expect him to finish the deal quickly. With the few creatures you have and the defense one or more opponents will probably have, this is going to take long. I think you should include something to win faster post-lock or people will not want to play against this deck anymore if it becomes effective in doing what it does. I have no idea what at this point (The Rack?) but will post if I think of something.
You make some great points. This deck isn't designed to be played in large multiplayer games with 5 or more players. It does become kind of difficult to close things out in larger games. But there are win conditions, and while there aren't tons of them, with the wheel effects, it is very easy to encounter multiple threats. I am considering cutting Notion Thief and replacing it with another mid range bomb. Icefall Regent and Dread are two cards that I want to test. A question for you and anyone else who has any suggestions, what are some other bombs/win conditions in the 4 to 6 converted mana cost range that would be strong for this deck?
Since you are already filling your opponent's graveyards with your wheel effects both The Mimeoplasm and Lord of Extinction can become really big beatsticks real fast. I think they fit the bill nicely. Also, perhaps at Rogue's Passage to make sure they can hit your opponent? Since they lack trample or any other form of evasion?
-Nath of the Gilt-Leaf (Yes he's cute with a wheel but in the end that's just a combo to get some tokens. Once)
-Painful Quandary (I see what it does but both Mimeoplasm and Lord of Extinction kill way faster.)
-Forest (Depends on your color needs, this is the basic you run most of.)
-Delay (I don't understand why you would play this over a hard counter, seems like the easiest cut.)
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Nath of the Gilt Leaf has synergy with the wheels that do discard, but also disrupts with random discard.
I like your analysis of Anvil of Bogardan and you are definitely making me take a second look at it. It's very brutal when our opponent is in top draw mode. I just don't like that it helps our opponent when Leovold, Emissary of Trest isn't on the battlefield which isn't really the case for Teferi's Puzzle Box.
I'm playing Delay because it stops everything and is very easy to cast. Delay is also good in multiplayer because 3 turns later, the spell that was countered might be directed against something we don't control.
Rogue's Passage is cute, but I think there are better colorless lands I could run if I were to play any. That being said, the mana base needs to be consistent and colorful in order to play Leovold consistently.
I am curious about other cards that can be win conditions for Leovold. I'm not sure if I want to cut Nath of the Gilt-Leaf, but I am very likely to remove Notion Thief.
I did some in person play testing last night with Diplomatic Sanctions and had a lot of success. The deck won the majority of the games it played in. It seems very consistent and I was able to use a wheel effect with Leovold, Emissary of Trest on turn 3 or 4 with good consistency. I was initially worried the list had too much ramp and fixing, but I can now say it's the right amount.
Teferi's Puzzle Box is just so cutthroat, it's really ridiculous. Chrome Mox also performed very well (the card can really help us get out of binds like Hall of Gemstones and Blood Moon). Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and Vendilion Clique over-performed, but I probably shouldn't be surprised. Another thing I'm learning from playing the deck is the counter spells are very good early game. Even countering small things that aren't high impact is great because we can maintain tempo. For example, it can be in our interest to Negate things like Cultivate early game because if we Day's Undoing on turn 4, we're going to lose our Negate regardless.
I am on the fence about Nath of the Gilt-Leaf. I only got to play with it once and it wasn't game breaking, but I like that is has good synergy with Anvil of Bogardan.
I'm still interested in other options for win conditions and bombs for the deck. I am also wondering if Priest of Titania is worth running. With Leovold, Emmisary of Trest, she'll make GG. The deck also runs Bloom Tender, Llanowar Elves and Elvish Mystic. It's also worth mentioning that Priest of Titania counts elves our opponents control. I just don't like that she costs 2 and only makes green mana. Thoughts?
I'm playing Delay because it stops everything and is very easy to cast. Delay is also good in multiplayer because 3 turns later, the spell that was countered might be directed against something we don't control.
Rogue's Passage is cute, but I think there are better colorless lands I could run if I were to play any. That being said, the mana base needs to be consistent and colorful in order to play Leovold consistently.
I can see how Lord of Extinction's lack of evasion can be an issue, perhaps Vulturous Zombie is a good replacement instead? You have to play if before you wheel ideally, but it will be huge afterwards and continues to grow as long as people are discarding cards. And it has flying. I don't agree with your assessment of The Mimeoplasm though. Given that he can take cards from any graveyard the chances of there not being a creature with any form of evasion in any graveyard post-wheel is minimal.
As for Delay, how often is that spell really redirected towards something else? Permanents usually are not and in my experience, people will usually want to get back at you for countering their spells so it would come to you anyway. What do you think of Remand instead? It draws you a card, and with Leovold out, it is double drawing since they still have to target in order to play. And it enables you to delay people the way Delay does.
I can see your argument for not including Rogue's Passage, my thoughts where that they provided the evasion for Lord and Mimeoplasm. Having said that, if you could find a way to add a colorless land, Geier Reach Sanitarium can provide redundancy for Anvil of Bogardan for locking people out. Not everybody the way Anvil does, just the biggest threat to you (And grows Vulturous Zombie!)
I did some in person play testing last night with Diplomatic Sanctions and had a lot of success. The deck won the majority of the games it played in. It seems very consistent and I was able to use a wheel effect with Leovold, Emissary of Trest on turn 3 or 4 with good consistency. I was initially worried the list had too much ramp and fixing, but I can now say it's the right amount.
Teferi's Puzzle Box is just so cutthroat, it's really ridiculous. Chrome Mox also performed very well (the card can really help us get out of binds like Hall of Gemstones and Blood Moon). Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and Vendilion Clique over-performed, but I probably shouldn't be surprised. Another thing I'm learning from playing the deck is the counter spells are very good early game. Even countering small things that aren't high impact is great because we can maintain tempo. For example, it can be in our interest to Negate things like Cultivate early game because if we Day's Undoing on turn 4, we're going to lose our Negate regardless.
I am on the fence about Nath of the Gilt-Leaf. I only got to play with it once and it wasn't game breaking, but I like that is has good synergy with Anvil of Bogardan.
I'm still interested in other options for win conditions and bombs for the deck. I am also wondering if Priest of Titania is worth running. With Leovold, Emmisary of Trest, she'll make GG. The deck also runs Bloom Tender, Llanowar Elves and Elvish Mystic. It's also worth mentioning that Priest of Titania counts elves our opponents control. I just don't like that she costs 2 and only makes green mana. Thoughts?
Again, I'm not a fan of Nath so I'm not that surprised. As for the Priest, I don't think it will pull it's weight outside of a dedicated Elf deck. You mentioned how the Mox saved you from Hell of Gemstone and Blood Moon, how about adding Chromatic Lantern or Coalition Relic instead?
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
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Vulturous Zombie seems bad because it's only good if you use a wheel that discards. Otherwise it's 5 mana for a 3/3 with flying (at least Nath of the Gilt-Leaf causes random discard disruption).
Delay is better than you are giving it credit for. Telling a player they can't use Angelic Destiny for 3 turns instead of 1 turn is significant. It gives you a much greater chance of drawing/tutoring for Spellskite by then. Delay is also very good against counter spells.
Geier Reach Sanitarium seems really strong in duel, but otherwise, it's a card that is going to give card advantage to most of your opponents and that's bad. It also makes our mana base less consistent. I tested it previously and I didn't like it. It's really bad to have in opening hand.
Chromatic Lantern and Coalition Relic don't do enough for costing 3 mana. I tested the former before and I didn't like it. Especially considering that it competes with Leovold, Emissary of Trest because he also costs three mana. I could maybe considering testing Lotus Petal, but it seems like it'd only be useful in duel commander.
I think you are probably right about Priest of Titania, mainly because this deck doesn't need a lot of mana to function.
This Labor Day weekend I was able to get a lot of games in. The deck is performing very well against different types of decks. During my testing, I found Leovold especially shines when not having to deal with blue. Leovold, Emissary of Trest seems strong in dual games but also small and medium sized multiplayer games. Getting out an early game wheel effect with Leovold on board is brutal, especially if we go first. Playing Leovold on turn 2, followed by a wheel on turn 3, when our opponents may have only played 2 lands tilts the game in our favor drastically.
I was able to play with the cards I mentioned earlier I was making change for, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Dread, and Anvil of Bogardan. All of these cards performed as expect or better and I looked forward to seeing more than their previous placeholders.
Sometimes the deck gets off to a slow start, or I have to mulligan because I don't have my colors right away. We really want to have three colors available by turn 3 or earlier (turn 4 at the latest). I'm looking forward to the new lands from from Kaladesh (see spoiler below).
I feel it is worth mentioning that this deck doesn't need to use cards like Day's Undoing and Wheel and Deal to win. It can play a more traditional control route by removing and controlling threats and playing win conditions in the mid to late game. The great thing about Leovold, Emissary of Trest is that the first ability is still an oppressive ability without supporting it with wheel effects. The second ability gives us card advantage throughout the game and makes our opponents second guess targeting our permanents.
One card I found to be underperforming in Whispering Madness. It feels like it is easily the weakest wheel effect, because it costs four mana, it doesn't refil our entire hand, it is a sorcery, and the Cipher is basically pointless. It is still a strong card, and I don't think I want to cut it unless I were to replace it with another wheel effect.
Does anyone have any thoughts on if Dark Deal seems better than Whispering Madness? My intuition tells me it's worse, because while Dark Deal is one less, we lose a card. What about Diminishing Returns? The exile ten cards doesn't seem much different than having to shuffle and draw new cards that other wheels offer. The double blue might be tough to play around.
I have made a few additional changes that I have already tested with great success. Here are the most recent changes.
September 5, 2016: In: Lotus Petal Out: Ponder Reason: The deck succeeds with strong openings, while we only can use Lotus Petal once, in the early game it enables turn 2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest. It can also give us a turn 1 Farseek/Nature's Lore. Sometimes it gives us that extra one mana we need to keep up mana for Dispel or Turn Aside. Ponder is a great card, but Preordain smooths our draws better, and Ponder isn't very good unless we use a shuffle effect.
September 5, 2016: In: Mox Diamond Out: Sol Ring Reason: Sol Ring is obviously one of the best cards in the format, but early game, it doesn't really help us play Leovold, Emissary of Trest early because it doesn't make colored mana. Mox Diamond is great because it helps us make all our colors, and can help us in an instance we are mana flooded, or we want to make additional mana in a turn where we have a land that enters tapped.
Note: These updates have also been added to the change log in the first post of the thread.
Lastly another question I wanted to bring up is how powerful is Leovold, Emissary of Trest? Some people I play with say he's easily the strongest Sultai general and perhaps the best general with a converted mana cost of 3. Could you see him getting banned? Why or why not?
I think Time Reversal would be a better choice than Diminishing Returns imo. You risk exiling the puzzle box or anvil with it. I do realize it's one mana more expensive so it less pretty on the curve but still...
As for Leovold, I think he'll be a more polarizing commander, but I don't see him being banned. He forces others to play fair but does not prevent them from playing their game. And he does not do anything good for you by himself. He gives you some draw contingent on your opponents actions, that's all. Good? Yes. Oppresive? No.
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Time Reversal costs too much. Time Spiral costs 6, but at least you still get to cast spells, so it's basically free. As far as I'm concerned Time Reversal is a Day's Undoing that costs 3UU instead of 2U.
It is true that Diminishing Returns may exile Teferi's Puzzle Box or Anvil of Bogardan, but it is unlikely. Even if it does happen, we don't each (or even one) of those cards to win the game after using a wheel effect. The deck should be able to succeed without setting up a lock. That is the point the reason we are using creature win conditions.
On the topic of winning conditions: have you considered adding Dark Suspicions ? Also Quest for the Nihil Stone and Shrieking Affliction. All these cards benefit from empty opponent hands and are non-creatures (which are a bit tougher to steal or remove).
I tested Diminishing Returns and Time Reversal over the past few days as a replacement for Whispering Madness. They both are better than Whispering Madness. Time Reversal is a great wheel effect late game, and midgame is essentially a more expensive Day's Undoing. Diminishing Returns was even better. The double blue wasn't difficult to hit. Refilling our hand rather than just drawing 4 or 5 cards from Whispering Madness is clearly stronger. For this reason I made the following update(this update also reflects on the change log):
September 13, 2016: In: Diminishing Returns Out: Whispering Madness Reason: Drawing on average 4 or 5 cards is not as good as refilling our entire hand. Exiling ten cards from our library is a very minor drawback. Diminishing Returns also functions as additional graveyard hate.
It is worth mentioning that if you are playing a more strict combo deck (i.e. Laboratory Maniac, Doomsday), it is too risky to play Diminishing Returns. I do not believe those types of combos are necessary and they make the deck less consistent and more difficult to pilot. However, if you are into that sort of thing, Time Reversal is a better wheel effect (or of course Timetwister if you happen to own one)
I also tested Dark Deal and determined it isn't worthy of a spot in the deck. It performs best early game, ideally we would cast it the turn after we play Leovold, Emissary of Trest (turn 3 or 4). When played early, it essentially is an additional copy of Day's Undoing in that it strips our opponents' hands for 3 mana. The problem with the card is we always will draw less cards than we had before. Early to mid game, we might draw 4 cards from Dark Deal after discarding 5, but late game it's a very bad card for us. It would be much better if it had the Windfall clause (after discarding, each player draws cards equal to the greatest number of cards a player discarded this way").
I played the deck more this weekend to great success. The wheels are excellent graveyard hate and Icefall Regent has been doing his job. Has anyone been playing with or against similar Leovold decks in their meta? If so, any interesting stories or feedback?
I think if you are running more fetches (i.e. the fetches my list has, Misty Rainforest and Verdant Catacombs)and your meta includes players that run fetch lands Deathrite Shaman might be worth playing. If you aren't going to be able to consistently have a fetch land in the graveyard by turn 2, it's not worth running. Even in that case, it's annoying if we only can tap it for mana once or twice, instead of as many times as we want throughout the game.
Does anyone have any thoughts on running Intuition?
Unfortunately we don't have too many ways to abuse our graveyard. However it is still a very strong instant speed tutor, I would imagine we could do piles like the ones listed below.
Why Leovold?
Deck List
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
Ramp/Mana Fixing (13)
1x Chrome Mox
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mox Diamond
1x Burgeoning
1x Exploration
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Elves of Deep Shadow
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Bloom Tender
1x Farseek
1x Nature's Lore
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
Protection (4)
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Spellskite
1x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Non-Wheel Card Advantage (7)
1x Preordain
1x Anvil of Bogardan
1x Baleful Strix
1x Faerie Artisans
1x Sylvan Library
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Rhystic Study
Tutors (6)
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Worldly Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Fabricate
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Dispel
1x Arcane Denial
1x Counterspell
1x Countersquall
1x Delay
1x Negate
1x Turn Aside
Creature Removal (4)
1x Go for the Throat
1x No Mercy
1x Putrefy (+ noncreature removal)
1x Sultai Charm (+ noncreature removal)
Non-Creature Removal (4)
1x Nature's Claim
1x Abrupt Decay (Also creature removal)
1x Seal of Primordium
Mass Removal (1)
1x Cyclonic Rift
Wheel Effects (6)
1x Day's Undoing
1x Wheel and Deal
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Windfall
1x Teferi's Puzzle Box
1x Time Spiral
Win Conditions (10)
1x Frost Titan
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1x Icefall Regent
1x Massacre Wurm
1x Noxious Gearhulk
1x Sire of Stagnation
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Bribery
1x Villainous Wealth
1x Painful Quandary
1x Treachery
1x Blooming Marsh
1x Botantical Sanctum
1x Breeding Pool
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Darkslick Shores
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Flooded Grove
4x Forest
1x Hinterland Harbor
4x Island
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Mana Confluence
1x Opulent Palace
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Sunken Ruins
2x Swamp
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Temple of Malady
1x Temple of Mystery
1x Underground River
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Watery Grave
1x Windswept Heath
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Yavimaya Coast
Card Analysis
Deck Trait Breakdown
Other Options
How To Play
Change Log
This deck and analysis is a work in progress. I expect to make many updates in the days to come including changes, alternate options, how to pilot, along with strengths and weaknesses. Feedback and recommendations are greatly appreciated. Thanks for reading!
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I appreciate the feedback so far, please keep suggestions coming, I think Leovold, Emissary of Trest has a ton of potential and there are a lot of directions to go with him in a control shell. Here are my thoughts on the responses made so far:
Words of Waste is an interesting card. I felt that it was way too many intensive and sort of win more. You have to pay 1 mana each time you draw a card, it's sort of like a reverse Notion Thief you have to keep paying for.
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is a good recommendation that is worth mentioning in the "Other Options" section. I love how well it interacts with Teferi's Puzzle Box and how it fits lore synergy. However, the triple blue is sometimes difficult to cast. I did test it, and I felt it wasn't especially useful outside of the lock, and it's sort of win more and it is unfun to play against because it literally prevents our opponents from having any chance to interact with us. There also aren't enough creatures in the deck now to gain value out of the flash ability.
Anvil of Bogardan is very strong with Leovold, Emissary of Trest but it's only good with him on the battlefield. Without our general out, similar to Howling Mine, it is mediocre at best otherwise. Also, with Anvil of Bogardan on the battlefield, it will only encourage our opponents to remove Leovold more.
Unfortunately that is not how Aluren works. While Aluren means we can replay Leovold, Emissary of Trest because of it's converted mana cost of 3, the commander tax is an additional cost that Aluren doesn't get around. So if Leovold is removed twice and Aluren is out, we would still have to pay 4 to cast him. Definitely not worth it for a card slot, especially considering it would let our opponents to play their creatures faster.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
You make some great points. This deck isn't designed to be played in large multiplayer games with 5 or more players. It does become kind of difficult to close things out in larger games. But there are win conditions, and while there aren't tons of them, with the wheel effects, it is very easy to encounter multiple threats. I am considering cutting Notion Thief and replacing it with another mid range bomb. Icefall Regent and Dread are two cards that I want to test. A question for you and anyone else who has any suggestions, what are some other bombs/win conditions in the 4 to 6 converted mana cost range that would be strong for this deck?
That is correct, I meant to write that if we are mana flooded we can use Vendilion Clique to cycle away a mana dork or ramp spell. Noted and updated. Thanks!
Note: I made the first update to the change log. I replaced Rampant Growth with Sakura-Tribe Elder, which for the most part is strictly better because it can chump block and then fetch. Three Visits is another card that can go in this slot. Keep in mind that if you don't have one already, you'll have to pay $40.00 for what is essentially just a second copy of Nature's Lore. Into The North can go here also if you want to add a snow package in the deck list. If you are running Into The North, all of your basic lands should be snow covered basics. Additionally you should make room for Mouth of Ronom and Frost Marsh. Personally I don't think it's worth it, because Frost Marsh is a strictly worse Temple of Deceit/Opulent Palace and Mouth of Ronom is very strong but I think it's difficult to run colorless mana sources in a 3 colored deck that wants to combo quickly.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I feel the list is pretty optimized although there are a few that come to mind.
Cards That Would Be In The List If Money Were Not A Factor
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Since you are already filling your opponent's graveyards with your wheel effects both The Mimeoplasm and Lord of Extinction can become really big beatsticks real fast. I think they fit the bill nicely. Also, perhaps at Rogue's Passage to make sure they can hit your opponent? Since they lack trample or any other form of evasion?
Also, you could add Anvil of Bogardan as a redundant Teferi's Puzzle Box for lock purposes. So I would suggest the following changes:
+Lord of Extinction
+The Mimeoplasm
+Rogue's Passage
+Anvil of Bogardan
-Nath of the Gilt-Leaf (Yes he's cute with a wheel but in the end that's just a combo to get some tokens. Once)
-Painful Quandary (I see what it does but both Mimeoplasm and Lord of Extinction kill way faster.)
-Forest (Depends on your color needs, this is the basic you run most of.)
-Delay (I don't understand why you would play this over a hard counter, seems like the easiest cut.)
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Nath of the Gilt Leaf has synergy with the wheels that do discard, but also disrupts with random discard.
I like your analysis of Anvil of Bogardan and you are definitely making me take a second look at it. It's very brutal when our opponent is in top draw mode. I just don't like that it helps our opponent when Leovold, Emissary of Trest isn't on the battlefield which isn't really the case for Teferi's Puzzle Box.
I'm playing Delay because it stops everything and is very easy to cast. Delay is also good in multiplayer because 3 turns later, the spell that was countered might be directed against something we don't control.
Rogue's Passage is cute, but I think there are better colorless lands I could run if I were to play any. That being said, the mana base needs to be consistent and colorful in order to play Leovold consistently.
I am curious about other cards that can be win conditions for Leovold. I'm not sure if I want to cut Nath of the Gilt-Leaf, but I am very likely to remove Notion Thief.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Teferi's Puzzle Box is just so cutthroat, it's really ridiculous. Chrome Mox also performed very well (the card can really help us get out of binds like Hall of Gemstones and Blood Moon). Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and Vendilion Clique over-performed, but I probably shouldn't be surprised. Another thing I'm learning from playing the deck is the counter spells are very good early game. Even countering small things that aren't high impact is great because we can maintain tempo. For example, it can be in our interest to Negate things like Cultivate early game because if we Day's Undoing on turn 4, we're going to lose our Negate regardless.
I have decided to cut Phyrexian Arena and replace it with Anvil of Bogardan. Phyrexian Arena is obviously a very strong card, but Anvil of Bogardan is much better with Leovold, Emissary of Trest and the double black in the mana cost of Phyrexian Arena was awkward at times. Also Anvil of Bogardan can be tutored with with Fabricate and Tezzeret the Seeker! Additionally I have replaced Notion Thief for Dread. The deck needs more win conditions and bombs. Dread is an evasive beater that in a similar manner to No Mercy discourages the inevitable offensive hate we will receive after we use a wheel effect with Leovold, Emissary of Trest on the battlefield. Both of these changes have been updated in the change log.
I am on the fence about Nath of the Gilt-Leaf. I only got to play with it once and it wasn't game breaking, but I like that is has good synergy with Anvil of Bogardan.
I'm still interested in other options for win conditions and bombs for the deck. I am also wondering if Priest of Titania is worth running. With Leovold, Emmisary of Trest, she'll make GG. The deck also runs Bloom Tender, Llanowar Elves and Elvish Mystic. It's also worth mentioning that Priest of Titania counts elves our opponents control. I just don't like that she costs 2 and only makes green mana. Thoughts?
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I can see how Lord of Extinction's lack of evasion can be an issue, perhaps Vulturous Zombie is a good replacement instead? You have to play if before you wheel ideally, but it will be huge afterwards and continues to grow as long as people are discarding cards. And it has flying. I don't agree with your assessment of The Mimeoplasm though. Given that he can take cards from any graveyard the chances of there not being a creature with any form of evasion in any graveyard post-wheel is minimal.
As for Delay, how often is that spell really redirected towards something else? Permanents usually are not and in my experience, people will usually want to get back at you for countering their spells so it would come to you anyway. What do you think of Remand instead? It draws you a card, and with Leovold out, it is double drawing since they still have to target in order to play. And it enables you to delay people the way Delay does.
I can see your argument for not including Rogue's Passage, my thoughts where that they provided the evasion for Lord and Mimeoplasm. Having said that, if you could find a way to add a colorless land, Geier Reach Sanitarium can provide redundancy for Anvil of Bogardan for locking people out. Not everybody the way Anvil does, just the biggest threat to you
Again, I'm not a fan of Nath so I'm not that surprised. As for the Priest, I don't think it will pull it's weight outside of a dedicated Elf deck. You mentioned how the Mox saved you from Hell of Gemstone and Blood Moon, how about adding Chromatic Lantern or Coalition Relic instead?
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Vulturous Zombie seems bad because it's only good if you use a wheel that discards. Otherwise it's 5 mana for a 3/3 with flying (at least Nath of the Gilt-Leaf causes random discard disruption).
Delay is better than you are giving it credit for. Telling a player they can't use Angelic Destiny for 3 turns instead of 1 turn is significant. It gives you a much greater chance of drawing/tutoring for Spellskite by then. Delay is also very good against counter spells.
Geier Reach Sanitarium seems really strong in duel, but otherwise, it's a card that is going to give card advantage to most of your opponents and that's bad. It also makes our mana base less consistent. I tested it previously and I didn't like it. It's really bad to have in opening hand.
Chromatic Lantern and Coalition Relic don't do enough for costing 3 mana. I tested the former before and I didn't like it. Especially considering that it competes with Leovold, Emissary of Trest because he also costs three mana. I could maybe considering testing Lotus Petal, but it seems like it'd only be useful in duel commander.
I think you are probably right about Priest of Titania, mainly because this deck doesn't need a lot of mana to function.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
This Labor Day weekend I was able to get a lot of games in. The deck is performing very well against different types of decks. During my testing, I found Leovold especially shines when not having to deal with blue. Leovold, Emissary of Trest seems strong in dual games but also small and medium sized multiplayer games. Getting out an early game wheel effect with Leovold on board is brutal, especially if we go first. Playing Leovold on turn 2, followed by a wheel on turn 3, when our opponents may have only played 2 lands tilts the game in our favor drastically.
I was able to play with the cards I mentioned earlier I was making change for, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Dread, and Anvil of Bogardan. All of these cards performed as expect or better and I looked forward to seeing more than their previous placeholders.
Sometimes the deck gets off to a slow start, or I have to mulligan because I don't have my colors right away. We really want to have three colors available by turn 3 or earlier (turn 4 at the latest). I'm looking forward to the new lands from from Kaladesh (see spoiler below).
Blooming Marsh and Botanical Sanctum are perfect for Leovold, Emissary of Trest. These two lands will increase the chances of us being able to cast Leovold and other important spells early game. I will probably cut two Forest for them.
I feel it is worth mentioning that this deck doesn't need to use cards like Day's Undoing and Wheel and Deal to win. It can play a more traditional control route by removing and controlling threats and playing win conditions in the mid to late game. The great thing about Leovold, Emissary of Trest is that the first ability is still an oppressive ability without supporting it with wheel effects. The second ability gives us card advantage throughout the game and makes our opponents second guess targeting our permanents.
One card I found to be underperforming in Whispering Madness. It feels like it is easily the weakest wheel effect, because it costs four mana, it doesn't refil our entire hand, it is a sorcery, and the Cipher is basically pointless. It is still a strong card, and I don't think I want to cut it unless I were to replace it with another wheel effect.
Does anyone have any thoughts on if Dark Deal seems better than Whispering Madness? My intuition tells me it's worse, because while Dark Deal is one less, we lose a card. What about Diminishing Returns? The exile ten cards doesn't seem much different than having to shuffle and draw new cards that other wheels offer. The double blue might be tough to play around.
I have made a few additional changes that I have already tested with great success. Here are the most recent changes.
Lastly another question I wanted to bring up is how powerful is Leovold, Emissary of Trest? Some people I play with say he's easily the strongest Sultai general and perhaps the best general with a converted mana cost of 3. Could you see him getting banned? Why or why not?
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
As for Leovold, I think he'll be a more polarizing commander, but I don't see him being banned. He forces others to play fair but does not prevent them from playing their game. And he does not do anything good for you by himself. He gives you some draw contingent on your opponents actions, that's all. Good? Yes. Oppresive? No.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
It is true that Diminishing Returns may exile Teferi's Puzzle Box or Anvil of Bogardan, but it is unlikely. Even if it does happen, we don't each (or even one) of those cards to win the game after using a wheel effect. The deck should be able to succeed without setting up a lock. That is the point the reason we are using creature win conditions.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
It is worth mentioning that if you are playing a more strict combo deck (i.e. Laboratory Maniac, Doomsday), it is too risky to play Diminishing Returns. I do not believe those types of combos are necessary and they make the deck less consistent and more difficult to pilot. However, if you are into that sort of thing, Time Reversal is a better wheel effect (or of course Timetwister if you happen to own one)
I also tested Dark Deal and determined it isn't worthy of a spot in the deck. It performs best early game, ideally we would cast it the turn after we play Leovold, Emissary of Trest (turn 3 or 4). When played early, it essentially is an additional copy of Day's Undoing in that it strips our opponents' hands for 3 mana. The problem with the card is we always will draw less cards than we had before. Early to mid game, we might draw 4 cards from Dark Deal after discarding 5, but late game it's a very bad card for us. It would be much better if it had the Windfall clause (after discarding, each player draws cards equal to the greatest number of cards a player discarded this way").
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I would also try to curve a little bit the win con creatures and test Birthing Pod and Eldritch evolution.
I played the deck more this weekend to great success. The wheels are excellent graveyard hate and Icefall Regent has been doing his job. Has anyone been playing with or against similar Leovold decks in their meta? If so, any interesting stories or feedback?
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I think if you are running more fetches (i.e. the fetches my list has, Misty Rainforest and Verdant Catacombs)and your meta includes players that run fetch lands Deathrite Shaman might be worth playing. If you aren't going to be able to consistently have a fetch land in the graveyard by turn 2, it's not worth running. Even in that case, it's annoying if we only can tap it for mana once or twice, instead of as many times as we want throughout the game.
Right now we have Mox Diamond, Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, Exploration, Burgeoning, Birds of Paradise, Elves of Deep Shadow, Llanowar Elves and Elvish Mystic as cards that can help enable turn 2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest (9 cards). As it currently stands we have a pretty good chance of getting one of those cards in our opening hand.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Unfortunately we don't have too many ways to abuse our graveyard. However it is still a very strong instant speed tutor, I would imagine we could do piles like the ones listed below.
The more I think about it, the more I like it.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate