The latest news we've seen over specific initiatives they're implementing makes me question the capabilities of the present WotC management. Notice how I used management rather than leadership, big difference between the two.
But anyways, first, we learned of Mythic Rares. Then we learned that they're completely destroying the prerelease tournament and now, according to thundergod, we're going to see a lot of good Magic memorabilia be exploited by Hollywood and digital gaming industry.
Have they sunk to a new low? I have never, ever seen this type of mishandling or fumbling over a 15yr institution such as Magic. (that's almost half my age!)
And it really bothers me.
Do the very recent amount of fumblings disturb you?
They're starting to do that for me...
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Compounded with the loss of a PT, states, MSSes, and a common in each pack, this is turning out to be a pretty bad year for magic. For some of the recent decisions, it almost seems like they said, "Hey! This sounds like a good idea; let's do it!" "But sir, shouldn't we think about it fir-" "You're fired. Gtfo. NOW."
I missed the changes to the pre release. What are they?
There's a thread about it in the News section of these forums. But to summarize:
To my knowledge it basically says that prerelease tournaments are being restricted to faily large venues, the card pool is different (using "intro packs" instead of the regular tournament pack and 3 (2 if it's the standalone of a block) packs of the new set.
Shadowblaze: that's pretty much what happened, I can almost guarantee you on that.
They've lost the focus of the game and are only driven by money, profits and more money.
It's a shame, because I've been playing since 4th Edition, so I've seen many changes come and go...but this takes the cake. Sixth Edition was fine, they pushed it with the new card face, but this time...I'm not so sure.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
how about the fact that this will directly lower the prices of pre-releases for all of US?
the biggest cost of prs were renting a venue. now this is gone. granted wotc didn't rent the building, but this move directly DESTROYS the only reason prs costed more then standard pack pricing.
your pr pricing should drop by a minimum of $5. and if it doesn't, you'd better say something to your TO or have a massive prize pool due to the extra money.
mss & champs though, that's bad. i've been hoping they replace champs with something, but it seems bleak. mss is neato i suppose. but i'm an old man, so i don't really care but i understand how big it is for the youngsters.
I missed the changes to the pre release. What are they?
It's in the news forum.
Honestly, the only "fumbling" I'm concerned about is any potential video game and or Movie/TV series. Especially the latter. I just have this feeling it'll be completely idiotic and geared towards a very young crowd, which would be terrible.
The cancelation of States made sense. It was nothing but a feel good tournament which next to no actual implications. You won a box of cards and a small trophy. It didn't feed Regionals, nationals, anything.
The Mythic Rares -- I don't see the issue here. If anything, it'll give them a place to put those big, flashy Timmy fodder rares so we can worry less about getting that crap.
The Pre-Release bit, I personally don't see the big issue here. I'm personally overjoyed that I won't have to spend four hours on the road (two each way) just to play in a casual tournament that has no importance whatsoever.
The land in each pack bit doesn't bother me either. It's one less common -- no big deal.
The PT loss didn't thrill me, but in troublesome economic times I can't fault Wizards for cutting one PT. If they completely eliminate GPs or PTs, then sound the End is Nigh alarms.
So, yeah, I'm not that worried. I think a lot of the outrage is irrational and unfounded myself. Except for the Movie bit.
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EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
To my knowledge it basically says that prerelease tournaments are being restricted to faily large venues, the card pool is different (using "intro packs" instead of the regular tournament pack and 3 (2 if it's the standalone of a block) packs of the new set.
It's not that they are restricting prereleases to large venues, it's that the prereleases will be held at smaller venues (such as your local card store), and what I got out of the information regarding the intro packs is that they are going to replace what they were using the precons for at prereleases, the goofy card-slinging, play 5 games, and get your pack stuff. The main prerelease event will still be your typical sealed event.
EDIT: I agree with all your points Rebel, nice to know there is atleast one other person out there who is not worried (or actually excited) about these changes.
Mythic Rares are not a bad thing, objectively. Whether they do it right no one can say, but with just an announcement to go by (not just an announcement but further comments by real leaders at Wizards about how they understand how important it will be to do it right), you cannot possibly call it already a mistake.
The Prerelease Tournament restructuring seems like a real problem to me. More people will go (according to Wizards), which is a good thing for them financially and for those players. But it's bad for players who are already going because it will make the event smaller and less spectacular. For experienced TOs, who were given privileges to host these events, they suffer financially and lose significant leverage with Wizards as pertains to their proven loyalty, honesty, organizational skills, and lastly seniority.
For the broader entertainment arena, Magic already has a handful of games published, not all by EA (the current agreement), but even so this doesn't register any change in their policy on video games.
Fans, probably a large majority, have speculated for years how awesome a Magic movie would be. We never expected any guarantees on the plot or overall quality of the movie, but just because they announce that they are considering making one doesn't suddenly make this movie any different than before.
the card pool is different (using "intro packs" instead of the regular tournament pack and 3 (2 if it's the standalone of a block) packs of the new set.
I am not sure where you read this could you please site your source. I read the whole wizards article and all it says is new players to tournaments will be able to play with intro packs, probably similar to how they added the theme deck battles at the future sight prerelease, and since theme decks are going away they will offer these to play with instead. I really doubt they will be changing any of the actual pack structure at prereleases, these are the only tournaments I usually play at beside states.
Finally, one more comment on this post. They are actually increasing prerelease locations not decreasing them from what I read from the article. So I am not sure what you are complaining about?
I'm not sure how this restricts pre-releases to only large venues. If you look on the Play Network page, you can see the requirements for holding a prerelease (Core Level). My FNM store fulfills those requirements. Now, I like large venue prereleases, I hope that they dont become FNM sized tournies, but I'm not sure that these requirements restricts them.
They've lost the focus of the game and are only driven by money, profits and more money.
What an odd thing to say. Especially because balancing "money, profits, and more money" and making an outstanding game is the only way for their business to survive and for us to keep getting quality cards.
I mean, by definition a business cares about one thing: profits; they can't care about anything else, businesses are not moral people.
It would be great if WotC could show no regard for profits whatsoever, and just keep making exactly what we want them to make, but sadly, American capitalism (wait -- all capitalism) doesn't work like that.
It's a luxury and a priviledge to play a game like Magic, and I'm quite thankful that Wizards is making the changes they are (whether I perceive them positively or negatively), because it shows they are an evolving company with the long-term goal of keeping this game alive. People like Randy Buehler have said on multiple occasions that they hope to be able to play in the Pro Tour after retiring from Wizards -- that's a long-term goal indeed.
Suggesting that Wizards is "only in it for the money" is such a blanketting, naive statement for a consumer to make unless you've worked for the company, or know something the rest of us don't. Though I don't know Mark Rosewater or Aaron Forsythe personally, I've heard/read enough from them to make me believe they love this game more than I do, and would do anything and everything to preserve its status as a brilliant, beloved game. Does anyone really think those two believe otherwise? I mean, sure, Brand department probably has the interest of money priorotized higher, but that's their job. And Wizards pays a brand department so that they can afford to keep the game brilliant and beloved.
Sorry, this post is getting long; I'll end it after this tiny conclusion:
At first glance, some of these changes are off-putting, but they don't make me believe Wizards doesn't care about the game anymore. They understand a lot more about game development (and stabalization) than I do, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt (though that's not really something us forum posters are wont to do). If these new changes actually do suck (like the loss of States), then say something to Wizards (instead of griping on a message board); if enough people hate it, they'll figure something out to make us happy.
Because the only way WotC can get the money they so richly desire, is by having players.
We've already had a crappy Magic video game before (MtG Battlegrounds for XBox and later pc.) We've already known about the movie from an old announcement about Hasbro selling movie rights for stuff like Magic, Monopoly, Battleship etc.) Seriously, Hasbro making money with Magic with selling licenses to make movies/games noone's forced to watch/play doesn't hurt us players at all (Battleground was crap and it didn't cause any problems) - we should be happy Hasbro's making money with our game so it continues to exist.
Mythic Rares, once looked at the maths, most propably is a good thing for us players too. I still can't see why people have a problem with getting most rares easier/cheaper.
And about the prereleases... In Germany we've had those central prerelease locations around Mirrodin, but soon after that changed to every shop that runs tournaments semi-regularly and I see that as a good thing since I wouldn't go to any prereleases if I still had to travel that far just for that. Especially since prereleases are meant to be very basic tournaments for beginners, but many of those beginners are under 18 so they can't drive by car themselves yet, we gotta think of them too.
e: wow so many posts while i try to fend off my cat trying to play with me
People having the rights doesn't mean anyone is making a movie or game. They probably leased the rights YEARS ago. There COULD be something cooking, but perfectly viable movies get scrapped every day, I really wouldn't read the tea leaves on those movie and game comments at this point.
The prereleases no longer being huge 300 man events kind of bummed me out, but I still get to play the game, so it's not terrible.
Mythic rares don't bother me in any way.
Yes, wizards is a company out to make money, honestly, why is this totally new to people. It just so happens that making money involves giving us what we want and keeping the game balanced, but don't think for a second that's not about money. MaRo and crew obviously love designing cards, but someone has to pay them and that someone has to make money to do so. That someone is hasboro.
I honestly agree with the vast majority of WotC's moves so far, and agree with most of what iRebel said. Except that I actually want to see how a Magic movie/TV series pans out. If it ends up sucking, at least they will have tried.
It will cause a lot of confusion, but with regards to the pricing, are you sure that the price for the PRs will go down? I would like to think so.
'buster
Yeah the majority of the cost to run a Prerelease in the past was due to having to rent a very large venue (usually a convention hall) and paying all those judges to run it. Now by allowing virtually anyone who can run a FNM to run a PR you've eliminated the large venue and high number of judges.
In addition you've broken up a monopoly and created competition. So now instead of the one PR per state that's run by the same poeple evey year you can choose from many diffrent venues. If one is still charging 35 per event, simply go to the next closest one that only charges 20.
I actually really like this news, I used to have to drive 5 hrs and stay in a hotel every PR. It's come to the point where the gas cost alone could buy a box and that really makes me not want to bother. Now i'll only have to drive to the closest FNM spot which is in town or the next closest one, which is 1 hour away. So even if the actual price didn't come down (most likley due to greed or wizard mandate) the price you pay will either stay the same (if you live in a large city like Orlando Fl) or will get drastically cheaper for those who would normally have to drive to the venue.
Really the only thing I don't like is that now they're only holding the PR's 6 days before the release. It just won't feel as special going now since you're only playing with the cards a week before they come out.
As far as the cost thing goes... I know that the guy who runs the events here uses his own space and makes about half of his yearly income from Pre-Releases. This being said, it was still VERY expensive to participate. So much so that I think I've played two smaller pods since Ravnica's. $30-35 for a tourney pack and 2-3 boosters is just not worth it, and $17 for a draft is lame. As much as I hate seeing a nice guy lose half his income, I will definately look forward to cheaper fun.
I think the message we are getting is "don't make casual events several hours of driving/hotel room." Because there's so many more casual/news they could pick up otherwise.
That is the sense I get from people judging these changes before they happen.
Mystic Rares could go one way or another. We already have 45 dollar rares, so if a power card becomes a Mystic Rare we will still pay about 50 dollars for them. I am waiting to see how this effects secondary market before I make a opinion one way or another.
I HATE prereleases. Its complete mayhem, causing me physical headaches,( I always bring aspirin and water when I go to big events from now on)
Winning a prerelease event is moot. You spend so much money and time to attend and play in the events you get a whole 10 packs in the end.
"ALL RIGHT I WON MY SEALED TOURNAMENT, WHAT DO I GET!!"
The head judge runs up to you kicks you in the junk. Kicks you in the ribs a few times and tosses down a few packs on your beaten body
"Here you go. Clean yourself up."
I averaged it out one day, and if I win a prerelase even I paid ten bucks a pack. This includes the time and money spent on the tournament gas food.
Cheating is rampant at the MASS prereleases. Judges do almost nothing. Hell they walk away once the packs are tossed.
One guy had 3 profane commands at the morning tide. THATS NOT EVEN POSSIBLE. We were into round 3 before he got caught. We had to wait a hour between round while the problem is resolved.
How hard can it be. Its not possible to have 3 profane commands in this formate( a sealed of lowyrn and 2 moringtide packs. You do the math)
So I am glad the prereleases are being changed.
BUT I hodl the right to change my mind after it happens. It could be the worst disators wizards has ever done. I can't wait to see
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Well I will say that the thing that will REALLY hurt on the Pre-Release side is we totally lose that whole "HUGE" feeling that a Pre-Re gives you. These events are the one thing that brings casual players out to mingle with the spikes. When you have 1,000-1,500 MTG players in one space, it's pretty energetic. Now we'll have something that may be 300 people max if the space allows. For tiny shops in the middle of nowhere, you miss the roadtrip to the big city with your "team." Also, dealers lose a HUGE outlet. These events draw dealers from all over, and collectors who are looking for something they can't buy at the local shop and love the treasure hunt now have to brave the PTQ and Pro events. It's a much different vibe, and not always in a good way.
I went to the pre-releases for fun. Not to get the cards (which are obviously not woth the price of admission), not to "win big" (because I ain't good enough to win big, and the prize support just ain't all that big anyway), but to have fun. I liked the crowds. I liked the atmosphere. It was a "special" event.
It won't be anywhere close to as much fun to go to some small 15-20 player tournament at a local store.
I don't know the reason for this change. Maybe it makes good economic sense. Maybe it's really just to help those small store owners. I don't know. I just know it won't be as much fun.
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But anyways, first, we learned of Mythic Rares. Then we learned that they're completely destroying the prerelease tournament and now, according to thundergod, we're going to see a lot of good Magic memorabilia be exploited by Hollywood and digital gaming industry.
Have they sunk to a new low? I have never, ever seen this type of mishandling or fumbling over a 15yr institution such as Magic. (that's almost half my age!)
And it really bothers me.
Do the very recent amount of fumblings disturb you?
They're starting to do that for me...
'buster
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There's a thread about it in the News section of these forums. But to summarize:
To my knowledge it basically says that prerelease tournaments are being restricted to faily large venues, the card pool is different (using "intro packs" instead of the regular tournament pack and 3 (2 if it's the standalone of a block) packs of the new set.
Shadowblaze: that's pretty much what happened, I can almost guarantee you on that.
They've lost the focus of the game and are only driven by money, profits and more money.
It's a shame, because I've been playing since 4th Edition, so I've seen many changes come and go...but this takes the cake. Sixth Edition was fine, they pushed it with the new card face, but this time...I'm not so sure.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
how about the fact that this will directly lower the prices of pre-releases for all of US?
the biggest cost of prs were renting a venue. now this is gone. granted wotc didn't rent the building, but this move directly DESTROYS the only reason prs costed more then standard pack pricing.
your pr pricing should drop by a minimum of $5. and if it doesn't, you'd better say something to your TO or have a massive prize pool due to the extra money.
mss & champs though, that's bad. i've been hoping they replace champs with something, but it seems bleak. mss is neato i suppose. but i'm an old man, so i don't really care but i understand how big it is for the youngsters.
It's in the news forum.
Honestly, the only "fumbling" I'm concerned about is any potential video game and or Movie/TV series. Especially the latter. I just have this feeling it'll be completely idiotic and geared towards a very young crowd, which would be terrible.
The cancelation of States made sense. It was nothing but a feel good tournament which next to no actual implications. You won a box of cards and a small trophy. It didn't feed Regionals, nationals, anything.
The Mythic Rares -- I don't see the issue here. If anything, it'll give them a place to put those big, flashy Timmy fodder rares so we can worry less about getting that crap.
The Pre-Release bit, I personally don't see the big issue here. I'm personally overjoyed that I won't have to spend four hours on the road (two each way) just to play in a casual tournament that has no importance whatsoever.
The land in each pack bit doesn't bother me either. It's one less common -- no big deal.
The PT loss didn't thrill me, but in troublesome economic times I can't fault Wizards for cutting one PT. If they completely eliminate GPs or PTs, then sound the End is Nigh alarms.
So, yeah, I'm not that worried. I think a lot of the outrage is irrational and unfounded myself. Except for the Movie bit.
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It's not that they are restricting prereleases to large venues, it's that the prereleases will be held at smaller venues (such as your local card store), and what I got out of the information regarding the intro packs is that they are going to replace what they were using the precons for at prereleases, the goofy card-slinging, play 5 games, and get your pack stuff. The main prerelease event will still be your typical sealed event.
EDIT: I agree with all your points Rebel, nice to know there is atleast one other person out there who is not worried (or actually excited) about these changes.
Mythic Rares are not a bad thing, objectively. Whether they do it right no one can say, but with just an announcement to go by (not just an announcement but further comments by real leaders at Wizards about how they understand how important it will be to do it right), you cannot possibly call it already a mistake.
The Prerelease Tournament restructuring seems like a real problem to me. More people will go (according to Wizards), which is a good thing for them financially and for those players. But it's bad for players who are already going because it will make the event smaller and less spectacular. For experienced TOs, who were given privileges to host these events, they suffer financially and lose significant leverage with Wizards as pertains to their proven loyalty, honesty, organizational skills, and lastly seniority.
For the broader entertainment arena, Magic already has a handful of games published, not all by EA (the current agreement), but even so this doesn't register any change in their policy on video games.
Fans, probably a large majority, have speculated for years how awesome a Magic movie would be. We never expected any guarantees on the plot or overall quality of the movie, but just because they announce that they are considering making one doesn't suddenly make this movie any different than before.
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I am not sure where you read this could you please site your source. I read the whole wizards article and all it says is new players to tournaments will be able to play with intro packs, probably similar to how they added the theme deck battles at the future sight prerelease, and since theme decks are going away they will offer these to play with instead. I really doubt they will be changing any of the actual pack structure at prereleases, these are the only tournaments I usually play at beside states.
Finally, one more comment on this post. They are actually increasing prerelease locations not decreasing them from what I read from the article. So I am not sure what you are complaining about?
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It will cause a lot of confusion, but with regards to the pricing, are you sure that the price for the PRs will go down? I would like to think so.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
What an odd thing to say. Especially because balancing "money, profits, and more money" and making an outstanding game is the only way for their business to survive and for us to keep getting quality cards.
I mean, by definition a business cares about one thing: profits; they can't care about anything else, businesses are not moral people.
It would be great if WotC could show no regard for profits whatsoever, and just keep making exactly what we want them to make, but sadly, American capitalism (wait -- all capitalism) doesn't work like that.
It's a luxury and a priviledge to play a game like Magic, and I'm quite thankful that Wizards is making the changes they are (whether I perceive them positively or negatively), because it shows they are an evolving company with the long-term goal of keeping this game alive. People like Randy Buehler have said on multiple occasions that they hope to be able to play in the Pro Tour after retiring from Wizards -- that's a long-term goal indeed.
Suggesting that Wizards is "only in it for the money" is such a blanketting, naive statement for a consumer to make unless you've worked for the company, or know something the rest of us don't. Though I don't know Mark Rosewater or Aaron Forsythe personally, I've heard/read enough from them to make me believe they love this game more than I do, and would do anything and everything to preserve its status as a brilliant, beloved game. Does anyone really think those two believe otherwise? I mean, sure, Brand department probably has the interest of money priorotized higher, but that's their job. And Wizards pays a brand department so that they can afford to keep the game brilliant and beloved.
Sorry, this post is getting long; I'll end it after this tiny conclusion:
At first glance, some of these changes are off-putting, but they don't make me believe Wizards doesn't care about the game anymore. They understand a lot more about game development (and stabalization) than I do, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt (though that's not really something us forum posters are wont to do). If these new changes actually do suck (like the loss of States), then say something to Wizards (instead of griping on a message board); if enough people hate it, they'll figure something out to make us happy.
Because the only way WotC can get the money they so richly desire, is by having players.
-jackbauer-
Mythic Rares, once looked at the maths, most propably is a good thing for us players too. I still can't see why people have a problem with getting most rares easier/cheaper.
And about the prereleases... In Germany we've had those central prerelease locations around Mirrodin, but soon after that changed to every shop that runs tournaments semi-regularly and I see that as a good thing since I wouldn't go to any prereleases if I still had to travel that far just for that. Especially since prereleases are meant to be very basic tournaments for beginners, but many of those beginners are under 18 so they can't drive by car themselves yet, we gotta think of them too.
e: wow so many posts while i try to fend off my cat trying to play with me
how can it not? now a pr is just packs. there is no cost. essentially they could tack on $2 charge like fnm.
ie: prs were $30-35. only 30 recently due to our strong dollar. that's for 5 packs and a venue.
last time i checked $30 is easily 2x drafts. aka 6 packs. so do the math.
The prereleases no longer being huge 300 man events kind of bummed me out, but I still get to play the game, so it's not terrible.
Mythic rares don't bother me in any way.
Yes, wizards is a company out to make money, honestly, why is this totally new to people. It just so happens that making money involves giving us what we want and keeping the game balanced, but don't think for a second that's not about money. MaRo and crew obviously love designing cards, but someone has to pay them and that someone has to make money to do so. That someone is hasboro.
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Yeah the majority of the cost to run a Prerelease in the past was due to having to rent a very large venue (usually a convention hall) and paying all those judges to run it. Now by allowing virtually anyone who can run a FNM to run a PR you've eliminated the large venue and high number of judges.
In addition you've broken up a monopoly and created competition. So now instead of the one PR per state that's run by the same poeple evey year you can choose from many diffrent venues. If one is still charging 35 per event, simply go to the next closest one that only charges 20.
I actually really like this news, I used to have to drive 5 hrs and stay in a hotel every PR. It's come to the point where the gas cost alone could buy a box and that really makes me not want to bother. Now i'll only have to drive to the closest FNM spot which is in town or the next closest one, which is 1 hour away. So even if the actual price didn't come down (most likley due to greed or wizard mandate) the price you pay will either stay the same (if you live in a large city like Orlando Fl) or will get drastically cheaper for those who would normally have to drive to the venue.
Really the only thing I don't like is that now they're only holding the PR's 6 days before the release. It just won't feel as special going now since you're only playing with the cards a week before they come out.
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That is the sense I get from people judging these changes before they happen.
Mystic Rares could go one way or another. We already have 45 dollar rares, so if a power card becomes a Mystic Rare we will still pay about 50 dollars for them. I am waiting to see how this effects secondary market before I make a opinion one way or another.
I HATE prereleases. Its complete mayhem, causing me physical headaches,( I always bring aspirin and water when I go to big events from now on)
Winning a prerelease event is moot. You spend so much money and time to attend and play in the events you get a whole 10 packs in the end.
"ALL RIGHT I WON MY SEALED TOURNAMENT, WHAT DO I GET!!"
The head judge runs up to you kicks you in the junk. Kicks you in the ribs a few times and tosses down a few packs on your beaten body
"Here you go. Clean yourself up."
I averaged it out one day, and if I win a prerelase even I paid ten bucks a pack. This includes the time and money spent on the tournament gas food.
Cheating is rampant at the MASS prereleases. Judges do almost nothing. Hell they walk away once the packs are tossed.
One guy had 3 profane commands at the morning tide. THATS NOT EVEN POSSIBLE. We were into round 3 before he got caught. We had to wait a hour between round while the problem is resolved.
How hard can it be. Its not possible to have 3 profane commands in this formate( a sealed of lowyrn and 2 moringtide packs. You do the math)
So I am glad the prereleases are being changed.
BUT I hodl the right to change my mind after it happens. It could be the worst disators wizards has ever done. I can't wait to see
It won't be anywhere close to as much fun to go to some small 15-20 player tournament at a local store.
I don't know the reason for this change. Maybe it makes good economic sense. Maybe it's really just to help those small store owners. I don't know. I just know it won't be as much fun.