Ummmm....Giving your oppenent a 2/2 flier for countering a spell sucks. Spell Pierce, Force Spike, and Spell Pierce are way better. I guess a mill deck would use this since damage is not their win condition.
This is amazing in modern especially for twin or other combo. Protects your combo on the turn you go off when the token is irrelevant and hits more targets then dispel or spell pierce. This is the modern card of the set.
Edit: even as a sideboard card it hits splinter twin, scapeshift, living end etc... all things you can't hit with dispel or spell pierce(well spell pierce hits some of those sometimes >.>). Just imagine in any combo mirror.
In my opinion, for Standard, this is just a way for control decks to deal with Thoughtseize in Turn 1-2.
It's also more reliable than Syncopate for dealing with late-game threats. I'd rather the opponent have a bird than lose my hand and a chunk of life to Rakdos' Return if I had to tap down to one mana.
The bird is not so bad, it'll probably get bounced or verdicted anyway.
Sure, Spell Pierce is the obvious comparison, but not as good in later game situations when the opponent has more mana to work with, plus it can't counter creatures. Even so, doesn't matter because standard can't use it.
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It's an easy card to misjudge, giving a 2/2 flying creature in exchange for countering something can seem like a pretty bad deal. And for control decks and/or aggro control decks it often will be. However, for blue based combo decks in modern, legacy and vintage a 1cc hard counter that allows you to protect your combo from counterspells (and other instants), discard spells (and other nuisance sorceries) and enchantment based static hosers is a more than decent deal and giving a token is irrelevant when you are seeking to combo off.
In Standard I feel like Negate is just going to be better 90% of the time. The problem is that the mana efficiency isn't as important in Standard AND the 2/2 flyer you give them is more important. Put em together and you get a format that doesn't appreciate the upside of the card enough and dislikes the downside. The only reason I can see to play this in Standard is in a combo deck that really, really needs to counter Thoughtseize. Control would rather just get Thoughtseized than give the opponent a turn 1 2/2 flyer.
OTOH in older formats this might be good enough, as the mana efficiency is huge and the 2/2 doesn't matter as much. Although Spell Pierce is tough competition for the same role.
This card is without a doubt amazing. Anyone who says any different is dead wrong. First people are complaining about the drawback. Complain all you want, but in the last 5 years name one counterspell that got printed BELOW the curve, that didn't have a drawback? I'm waiting...
Since at least Zendikar when Magic releases a new set they do two things.
The first is they print a slightly better cancel. Why? I don't know tbh cancel has to be one of the most useless pieces of paper ever printed because it never sees standard play. WOTC prints it in every Magic201X set and then they print a slightly better version that might see play.
Examples:
The second thing they do is print a counterspell that is actually below the curve, but costs you something in return or causes you to jump through hoops to activate it. This is all because they are trying to find ways to print counterspells that aren't completely broken.
Examples:
So without a doubt Swan Song will see play. Probably in a variety of multiple formats. Why? This spell pierces, spell pierce. It counters counters. it counters gods, enchantments, burn, combat tricks, or whatever else. The only thing it doesn't counter is creatures. And that makes it good enough to see play. It might see play just as a spell pierce.
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In response to your standard mentions. It seems obvious (to me at least) that this was printed as a god hoser for standard. I don't see many people countering a thoughtseize with this. You still lose a card, (And a relevant late game counter at that) And instead of them losing two life they gain a 2/2 flyer to bash you in the face with. Maybe if we had a 2 mana Aether Adept to follow this card up with.
...or artifacts, or planeswalkers. Which Negate and Spell Pierce both hit and are very relevant card types to whiff on.
IMO this is an interesting card, buts its competitive applications are extremely narrow. It will see play in combo decks that need to counter counters, plus Oath. That is it. Other decks just don't want this effect more than Spell Pierce or Negate.
I am quite appalled by this card being rare. For crying out loud, it's a questionable sideboard card that at most could see really niche play.
Negate is almost strictly the better card T2-wise. For an extra mana, you get to use a common card that's been around for a long time, that counters anything Swan Song can + Artifacts + Planeswalkers, and without giving them a 2/2 flyer (and it'll be less money too). Standard's nowhere near fast enough to care about Swan Song, even with Thoughtseize around.
In Modern you have Spell Pierce and (arguably) other better counters. In Legacy / Vintage it may find a home in sideboard slots.
And it had to take up a rare slot? That's what really grinds my gears about this card. Not often do I make a rage post like this but Swan Song crosses the line. The other recent counterspells that are rare, I can understand them being rare because they have unique upsides. Swan Song has a drawback and it's not even necessarily as potent as several other one mana sideboard counters.
I expect people will want to lump me together with those that complained about the scry lands being rare, but that's a very tolerable case compared to this. Swan Song is the true grand champion of recent cards that "should've been uncommon".
On a sidenote I'm really liking the rest of Theros and most of its cards, from mythic to common. No regrets pre-ordering boxes whatsoever. This is really the first Theros rare I've seen that I strongly dislike, which in a way is a very good thing.
Whether or not it worked does not validate the play. That's hindsight probability. Let's say I offered you a bet -- I'm going to flip a coin and if it's heads, I'll give you 1 dollar but if it's tails, you'll give me 2 dollars. This is obviously a terrible bet for you. Accepting it is a bad decision. You can't justify it afterwards by arguing that you won the flip, therefore you made the right decision.
In response to your standard mentions. It seems obvious (to me at least) that this was printed as a god hoser for standard. I don't see many people countering a thoughtseize with this. You still lose a card, (And a relevant late game counter at that) And instead of them losing two life they gain a 2/2 flyer to bash you in the face with. Maybe if we had a 2 mana Aether Adept to follow this card up with.
As I already mentioned I actually quite like this card and see it as primarily filling a role as a protection counter for combo decks (mainly in older formats since they have more/better combo decks). However I think that you are severely underestimating the drawback of giving an opponent a 2/2 flying creature. Particularly in standard but also to some extent in modern and legacy a 2/2 flying creature is a legitimate threat and unlike a 1/1 flying token or 2/2 flight-less token it is something that is actually equivalent to or better than costing an extra card (opponent draws or you discard) as a drawback.
As for it's place in standard, this is in no way a "god hoser", yes, it is better to give an opponent the token than to let them have a God in play but the simple fact is that the Gods all cost 3+ mana and with the importance of costing only 1cc being lower in standard it can't compete with Negate for usefulness as a sideboard counterspell. Negate for only 1 more mana (still very solid at 2cc) has no drawbacks and can also hit relevant Artifact and/or Planeswalker spells.
On the contrary, I would certainly rather counter Thoughtseize than have a Detention Sphere plucked away for example (which is currently one of very few ways U/W can deal with Planeswalkers).
Furthermore, the opponent staying unaware of what counters I may (or may not be) holding is key to the early stall to bolster stability.
So what they bash me in the face a couple times with a birdie. Verdict comes soon enough in most cases. And I lean more on Sphinx's Revelation late game than that one counterspell I used on Thoughtseize.
I do want to say that I whole-heartedly agree that Negate is better for mid to late game in most ways, but I didn't think it could counter Gods. They are, after all, still creature spells.
This card is okay. Situational but okay. The only thing (and I usually don't complain about rarity) is that it is rare. It's power is dramatically below the rare slot. To me this is a common or uncommon for sure. I know, it's useless in draft which is probably why they put it at rare slot so it wouldn't clog up packs in drafts but I'm going to hate opening this up, because power-wise, it's so much weaker in a vacuum than even the trash rares would be. Dissolve would fit better in this rare slot than Swan Song would imho.
As I already mentioned I actually quite like this card and see it as primarily filling a role as a protection counter for combo decks (mainly in older formats since they have more/better combo decks). However I think that you are severely underestimating the drawback of giving an opponent a 2/2 flying creature. Particularly in standard but also to some extent in modern and legacy a 2/2 flying creature is a legitimate threat and unlike a 1/1 flying token or 2/2 flight-less token it is something that is actually equivalent to or better than costing an extra card (opponent draws or you discard) as a drawback.
As for it's place in standard, this is in no way a "god hoser", yes, it is better to give an opponent the token than to let them have a God in play but the simple fact is that the Gods all cost 3+ mana and with the importance of costing only 1cc being lower in standard it can't compete with Negate for usefulness as a sideboard counterspell. Negate for only 1 more mana (still very solid at 2cc) has no drawbacks and can also hit relevant Artifact and/or Planeswalker spells.
I am in no way underestimating this card. in my opinion you are all overestimating it. It's no worse than pongify which gave a 3/3 and still saw play. I think they are both representative of control and how it is played. What is the difference between this card and browbeat? you have the control and you make situational choices each and every game that you play. The 2/2 flyer is only going to hit the board when you deem it appropriate. And this card has tech oozing off of it. Someone was speaking earlier about how using this to counter your counter is a terrible idea because you lose two cards for little gain. That is of course false again. Because this card could be read two ways. As the counter spell or as a 1 mana flash flying 2/2. Granted that is unlikely to happen in standard now but imagine if this was printed while cawblade was around. A theoretical situation. You oblivion ring naming a creature they sac in response. You can let it go and your o ring hits the field all useless or you seize the opportunity counter it get your flyer blade up and start swinging. Fringe case at best but I know every magic player has at least one experience in a night of gaming where someone sacs in response or counters or hexproofs or does something else stupid to counter your play. In a deck that needs evasive bodies the double play might be enough. In a case like this it fills the same role as a man land.
I rambled for a bit there but my basic point is any card that gives you options is never bad.
An important factor that will decide the playability of this is the final quality of the Gods.
This stops them, while negate and pierce don't.
I don't think they're gonna see a lot of play, but who knows.
Fair enough. I like the Gods, but personally I don't see them being good enough to warrant that kind of attention. If they were inexpensive enough to fly under the normal counters then sure, but as it stands I suspect controlling decks will be better off just using the normal counter suite, Detention Sphere and other exile effects, Thoughtseize and other discard, along with normal removal that can keep them off of the 5 devotion.
But I do like this design/card as a nice safety valve for the gods that also has some potentially interesting uses in older formats.
This card is okay. Situational but okay. The only thing (and I usually don't complain about rarity) is that it is rare. It's power is dramatically below the rare slot. To me this is a common or uncommon for sure. I know, it's useless in draft which is probably why they put it at rare slot so it wouldn't clog up packs in drafts but I'm going to hate opening this up, because power-wise, it's so much weaker in a vacuum than even the trash rares would be. Dissolve would fit better in this rare slot than Swan Song would imho.
Excited to see this in foil though.
How is this useless in Draft? I'd anything the opposite is true and they printed it at rare so someone can't draft 4 and hose bestow. This isa bomb rare against bestow
As I already mentioned I actually quite like this card and see it as primarily filling a role as a protection counter for combo decks (mainly in older formats since they have more/better combo decks). However I think that you are severely underestimating the drawback of giving an opponent a 2/2 flying creature. Particularly in standard but also to some extent in modern and legacy a 2/2 flying creature is a legitimate threat and unlike a 1/1 flying token or 2/2 flight-less token it is something that is actually equivalent to or better than costing an extra card (opponent draws or you discard) as a drawback.
As for it's place in standard, this is in no way a "god hoser", yes, it is better to give an opponent the token than to let them have a God in play but the simple fact is that the Gods all cost 3+ mana and with the importance of costing only 1cc being lower in standard it can't compete with Negate for usefulness as a sideboard counterspell. Negate for only 1 more mana (still very solid at 2cc) has no drawbacks and can also hit relevant Artifact and/or Planeswalker spells.
Hmm maybe the difference here is you are seeing it as a sideboard card where I'm seeing it as main deck worthy. That could be very dumb of me but time will tell after we see what decks shake out post rotation. And tbh I am nota fan of Negate in almost any format. I like being able to cast 2 drops on turn 3 and 3 drops on turn 4 etc. Leaving 2 mana up gimps me too often. But tbh I think this card has alot of potential. Another thing isi don't think it would have been printed as is outside of theros. Just a rather strange combination of choices with enchantments Instants and Sorceries.
This is the perfect card for aggro/control decks. Might see play in modern and standard but it will really shine in legacy and vintage. Giving them a 2/2 flier to shutdown a combo or board wiper is not relevant when you are turning sideways with cards like goyf, knight of reliquary, and/or any random exalted dude.
Ah, true totally screwed up on that one. I was for some reason thinking of the gods just as a enchantment that turned into a creature after the devotion was high enough instead of as a creature enchantment which turns the creature part off if the devotion is too low.
Still my primary point remains the same - that the gods are expensive enough to be dealable with normal counters which don't have the same drawback like - Essence Scatter, Syncopate and barring Thassa when your opponent is on the play 3cc counters like Dissolve or Counterflux also work. And that Negate is better at dealing with everything else.
Giving away 2/2 Flyers is A BAD DEAL. The only reason I might use this is when I'm desperate because my opponent had just cast an indestructible enchantment or an obvious finisher and this card happens to be in my hand at the time. This will fit more as a UB counterspell, specially if they can find a way to negate the opponent's board advantage.
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this is one of the best SB cards i've ever seen. for all formats IMO. hence it can also be a MB option if the meta calls for it. awesome WOTC!
Edit: and i would rather give my oponent a 2/2 flier to protect my combo and/or prevent my oponent from comboing out.
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Mainboardable? Or just SB?
Wow, I hadn't thought of that. Great eye, hopefully it generates some discussion about that format.
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That really sounds like a great place to play this card. It's not often that a card from recent set can really affect a Vintage archetype.
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Edit: even as a sideboard card it hits splinter twin, scapeshift, living end etc... all things you can't hit with dispel or spell pierce(well spell pierce hits some of those sometimes >.>). Just imagine in any combo mirror.
It's also more reliable than Syncopate for dealing with late-game threats. I'd rather the opponent have a bird than lose my hand and a chunk of life to Rakdos' Return if I had to tap down to one mana.
The bird is not so bad, it'll probably get bounced or verdicted anyway.
Sure, Spell Pierce is the obvious comparison, but not as good in later game situations when the opponent has more mana to work with, plus it can't counter creatures. Even so, doesn't matter because standard can't use it.
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OTOH in older formats this might be good enough, as the mana efficiency is huge and the 2/2 doesn't matter as much. Although Spell Pierce is tough competition for the same role.
Since at least Zendikar when Magic releases a new set they do two things.
The first is they print a slightly better cancel. Why? I don't know tbh cancel has to be one of the most useless pieces of paper ever printed because it never sees standard play. WOTC prints it in every Magic201X set and then they print a slightly better version that might see play.
Examples:
The second thing they do is print a counterspell that is actually below the curve, but costs you something in return or causes you to jump through hoops to activate it. This is all because they are trying to find ways to print counterspells that aren't completely broken.
Examples:
So without a doubt Swan Song will see play. Probably in a variety of multiple formats. Why? This spell pierces, spell pierce. It counters counters. it counters gods, enchantments, burn, combat tricks, or whatever else. The only thing it doesn't counter is creatures. And that makes it good enough to see play. It might see play just as a spell pierce.
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In response to your standard mentions. It seems obvious (to me at least) that this was printed as a god hoser for standard. I don't see many people countering a thoughtseize with this. You still lose a card, (And a relevant late game counter at that) And instead of them losing two life they gain a 2/2 flyer to bash you in the face with. Maybe if we had a 2 mana Aether Adept to follow this card up with.
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...or artifacts, or planeswalkers. Which Negate and Spell Pierce both hit and are very relevant card types to whiff on.
IMO this is an interesting card, buts its competitive applications are extremely narrow. It will see play in combo decks that need to counter counters, plus Oath. That is it. Other decks just don't want this effect more than Spell Pierce or Negate.
Negate is almost strictly the better card T2-wise. For an extra mana, you get to use a common card that's been around for a long time, that counters anything Swan Song can + Artifacts + Planeswalkers, and without giving them a 2/2 flyer (and it'll be less money too). Standard's nowhere near fast enough to care about Swan Song, even with Thoughtseize around.
In Modern you have Spell Pierce and (arguably) other better counters. In Legacy / Vintage it may find a home in sideboard slots.
And it had to take up a rare slot? That's what really grinds my gears about this card. Not often do I make a rage post like this but Swan Song crosses the line. The other recent counterspells that are rare, I can understand them being rare because they have unique upsides. Swan Song has a drawback and it's not even necessarily as potent as several other one mana sideboard counters.
I expect people will want to lump me together with those that complained about the scry lands being rare, but that's a very tolerable case compared to this. Swan Song is the true grand champion of recent cards that "should've been uncommon".
On a sidenote I'm really liking the rest of Theros and most of its cards, from mythic to common. No regrets pre-ordering boxes whatsoever. This is really the first Theros rare I've seen that I strongly dislike, which in a way is a very good thing.
As I already mentioned I actually quite like this card and see it as primarily filling a role as a protection counter for combo decks (mainly in older formats since they have more/better combo decks). However I think that you are severely underestimating the drawback of giving an opponent a 2/2 flying creature. Particularly in standard but also to some extent in modern and legacy a 2/2 flying creature is a legitimate threat and unlike a 1/1 flying token or 2/2 flight-less token it is something that is actually equivalent to or better than costing an extra card (opponent draws or you discard) as a drawback.
As for it's place in standard, this is in no way a "god hoser", yes, it is better to give an opponent the token than to let them have a God in play but the simple fact is that the Gods all cost 3+ mana and with the importance of costing only 1cc being lower in standard it can't compete with Negate for usefulness as a sideboard counterspell. Negate for only 1 more mana (still very solid at 2cc) has no drawbacks and can also hit relevant Artifact and/or Planeswalker spells.
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Furthermore, the opponent staying unaware of what counters I may (or may not be) holding is key to the early stall to bolster stability.
So what they bash me in the face a couple times with a birdie. Verdict comes soon enough in most cases. And I lean more on Sphinx's Revelation late game than that one counterspell I used on Thoughtseize.
I do want to say that I whole-heartedly agree that Negate is better for mid to late game in most ways, but I didn't think it could counter Gods. They are, after all, still creature spells.
Excited to see this in foil though.
I am in no way underestimating this card. in my opinion you are all overestimating it. It's no worse than pongify which gave a 3/3 and still saw play. I think they are both representative of control and how it is played. What is the difference between this card and browbeat? you have the control and you make situational choices each and every game that you play. The 2/2 flyer is only going to hit the board when you deem it appropriate. And this card has tech oozing off of it. Someone was speaking earlier about how using this to counter your counter is a terrible idea because you lose two cards for little gain. That is of course false again. Because this card could be read two ways. As the counter spell or as a 1 mana flash flying 2/2. Granted that is unlikely to happen in standard now but imagine if this was printed while cawblade was around. A theoretical situation. You oblivion ring naming a creature they sac in response. You can let it go and your o ring hits the field all useless or you seize the opportunity counter it get your flyer blade up and start swinging. Fringe case at best but I know every magic player has at least one experience in a night of gaming where someone sacs in response or counters or hexproofs or does something else stupid to counter your play. In a deck that needs evasive bodies the double play might be enough. In a case like this it fills the same role as a man land.
I rambled for a bit there but my basic point is any card that gives you options is never bad.
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Fair enough. I like the Gods, but personally I don't see them being good enough to warrant that kind of attention. If they were inexpensive enough to fly under the normal counters then sure, but as it stands I suspect controlling decks will be better off just using the normal counter suite, Detention Sphere and other exile effects, Thoughtseize and other discard, along with normal removal that can keep them off of the 5 devotion.
But I do like this design/card as a nice safety valve for the gods that also has some potentially interesting uses in older formats.
How is this useless in Draft? I'd anything the opposite is true and they printed it at rare so someone can't draft 4 and hose bestow. This isa bomb rare against bestow
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Hmm maybe the difference here is you are seeing it as a sideboard card where I'm seeing it as main deck worthy. That could be very dumb of me but time will tell after we see what decks shake out post rotation. And tbh I am nota fan of Negate in almost any format. I like being able to cast 2 drops on turn 3 and 3 drops on turn 4 etc. Leaving 2 mana up gimps me too often. But tbh I think this card has alot of potential. Another thing isi don't think it would have been printed as is outside of theros. Just a rather strange combination of choices with enchantments Instants and Sorceries.
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Still my primary point remains the same - that the gods are expensive enough to be dealable with normal counters which don't have the same drawback like - Essence Scatter, Syncopate and barring Thassa when your opponent is on the play 3cc counters like Dissolve or Counterflux also work. And that Negate is better at dealing with everything else.
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Edit: and i would rather give my oponent a 2/2 flier to protect my combo and/or prevent my oponent from comboing out.
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You won't play it over Negate in standard and won't play it over Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm in legacy
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